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View Full Version : When will it finally happen?


Whitesox029
10-18-2004, 11:56 PM
This organization is just not up to par with those in the Bronx and in Boston. Those organizations want to win, and they spend the money for it. It makes me truly truly sad to see the complete nationwide lack of respect for the White Sox, the original American League club. I cannot fathom in my wildest dreams what the Sox winning the World Series would mean. It may happen, sure. But I just cannot comprehend what it would be like. Would we continue to be written off by everyone in the country as either "that other Chicago team" or "Who are they?" ? Will it ever happen? Will hell freeze over at that precise moment?
Tell me. I realize this is a depressing thread, but I had to express my disbelief at the total ineptitude of this organization, an organization that has undoubtedly won fewer postseason games in its history than its New York counterparts have in the past 3-5 years. I am lost for words.

TommyJohn
10-19-2004, 01:34 AM
This organization is just not up to par with those in the Bronx and in Boston. Those organizations want to win, and they spend the money for it. It makes me truly truly sad to see the complete nationwide lack of respect for the White Sox, the original American League club. I cannot fathom in my wildest dreams what the Sox winning the World Series would mean. It may happen, sure. But I just cannot comprehend what it would be like. Would we continue to be written off by everyone in the country as either "that other Chicago team" or "Who are they?" ? Will it ever happen? Will hell freeze over at that precise moment?
Tell me. I realize this is a depressing thread, but I had to express my disbelief at the total ineptitude of this organization, an organization that has undoubtedly won fewer postseason games in its history than its New York counterparts have in the past 3-5 years. I am lost for words.
My feelings? Well, last year articles were written in which ******* columnists
sneered that if the White Sox made the World Series, no one would care, as
opposed to the Cubbies, who have all of America in their corner. I have to
agree. Do you honestly think Chicago and America's attitude will change if
they were to up and win a pennant and get to the World Series? Get serious.
The White Sox are a non-entity. Were they to get to the Series, we'd see
the same sneering articles about choosing to watch (insert lame sitcom here)
rather than the series. Some will even appear in the Sun-Times and Tribune.
I don't think Chicago will even care if they won the AL pennant. There won't
be huge crowds celebrating as there would be if the Cubs won.

wdelaney72
10-19-2004, 08:38 AM
One WS appearance wouldn't make the Sox the media favorite over the Cub. It would be embraced and welcomed by the city and the media, but it would not change the bias towards the North side. Creating a dynasty of championship teams and hanging multiple banners from the rafters of the Cell would change that.

Winning (and winning often) cures all.

Part of the problem is the ownership structure, and I'm not singling out JR. Even after JR retires / dies / leaves, someone else will come be brought in by the owning partners of the Sox and be given the same orders: "Try and field a competitive product, but whatever you do, keep the organization on top of the profit line."

CarlosMay'sThumb
10-19-2004, 08:48 AM
I wonder how old you guys are. There certainly have been times when the Sox were more popular than the Cubs - even as recently as the early 90s. Right now the Cubs play in a ballpark with a better location and field a MUCH better team, but all it would take is for the Sox to win consistently and the tide would turn.


A World Series on the South Side would change alot and I think would be supported enthusiastically by Chicagoans. Not as enthusiastically as if the Cubs were in it, however.

The problem is the Sox are at least a decade and a change in management away from a World Series.

Palehose13
10-19-2004, 09:10 AM
I am actually very surprised by the optimism(results). Kinda nice for a change. :wink:

CubKilla
10-19-2004, 12:01 PM
I am actually very surprised by the optimism(results). Kinda nice for a change. :wink:
I haven't weighed in yet. The Sox aren't going to the postseason anytime soon.... that's for sure :mad:

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 12:02 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf will be 70 in Feb of 2005. He cant live forever.
However, a guy like him will certainly live to be 100. So, in Spring
of 2005, he will croak, and there will be dancing in the streets of the
SouthSide, because the SOX will STILL not have been to the World Series.
in 2035 however, It will take the New SOX regime at least 20 years
to REVERSE the 50 something years of Ineptitude of Jerry Reinsdorfs stewardship. His years of dabbling in mismanagement, poking around in
the commissioners office, and pr Gaffes will no doubt hurt this team for
years and years.

The end is sight ........ but will we care by that time?

jackbrohamer
10-19-2004, 12:05 PM
The teams left in the playoffs now look so superior to the White Sox that it is depressing.

CubKilla
10-19-2004, 12:11 PM
The teams left in the playoffs now look so superior to the White Sox that it is depressing.
You get what you pay for and JR is content paying for mediocrity. JR had a team that could have made a WS run, but greediness was somehow more important.

batmanZoSo
10-19-2004, 12:34 PM
I am actually very surprised by the optimism(results). Kinda nice for a change. :wink:

Because it's such a ridiculous question, you might as well pick the nearest one. I really don't see anything happening, but I picked 05-10 anyway...

So, no, we're still not optimistic.
:cool:

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 12:39 PM
You get what you pay for and JR is content paying for mediocrity. JR had a team that could have made a WS run, but greediness was somehow more important.

:sahaf
" this is all great lies, spoken by serpent tongue fan! The Great One
mister Reinsdorf has RAISED PAYROLL FOR YEARS IN ROW!! He wants
Championship for Great fans of chicago! HOw do you not see this!"

Brian26
10-19-2004, 12:40 PM
This organization is just not up to par with those in the Bronx and in Boston.

I've found this time of the year, especially recently, always somewhat depressing. Watching this entire Red Sox/Yankees series really shows how good those teams are. Last night's game was freakin' epic. Posada's arm. Guy's laying down a bunt when it mattered. Big hits. Big stolen bases. Big strikeouts. Big defensive plays in the field. I don't mean to sound corny, but it's almost like watching a play or a good movie. It's art. These two teams are on a level so far above the Sox right now that's its scary.

The Yankees are even scarier because they consistently just glide through the season, but in October they seem to become a mosnter than is unstoppable. Jeter and Posada just exude confidence. It's incredible.

steff
10-19-2004, 12:47 PM
:sahaf
" this is all great lies, spoken by serpent tongue fan! The Great One
mister Reinsdorf has RAISED PAYROLL FOR YEARS IN ROW!! He wants
Championship for Great fans of chicago! HOw do you not see this!"

Well get your head out of your rear end and stop consuming yourself with Cub books, and Cub fans, and Cub bars, etc, etc... and maybe you'd be able to see past your BS.

All that obsession with all things Cub... :whiner: :whiner: You're starting to look like them after the choke last year..

mweflen
10-19-2004, 12:57 PM
I had to vote for post 2010... saigh... it will take Reinsdork's death and a change of ownership (because you'll have to pry the frnachise from his cold dead fingers...) to create a truly viable world series contender.

The organization is just broken, top to bottom. We don't sign big money free agents who are a nearly sure thing (like Guerrerro, Beltran); and we seem unable to identify bit players who can excel in the right spot (Twins, Oakland). The fault for these things has to be with ownership and management, respectively.

So unfortunately, I think it will be at least 5 years before the house is sufficiently clean to allow good talent to play and prosper here. :whiner:

mweflen
10-19-2004, 12:59 PM
Guy's laying down a bunt when it mattered. Big hits.
Well, excepting for the moment Manny's disappearing act and That horrendous popped bunt by Damon...

Brian26
10-19-2004, 01:01 PM
Well, excepting for the moment Manny's disappearing act and That horrendous popped bunt by Damon...

I can't disagree with you on that. Damon has struggled, and Manny looks absolutely HORRENDOUS in leftfield. He is such a butcher out there, it's not even funny.

Foulke You
10-19-2004, 01:28 PM
I can't disagree with you on that. Damon has struggled, and Manny looks absolutely HORRENDOUS in leftfield. He is such a butcher out there, it's not even funny.
Agreed. You'd be hard pressed to find an outfielder worse than Manny defensively. He is probably even worse than Sosa in the OF.

Mohoney
10-19-2004, 03:01 PM
With the window closing on Maggs this offseason and Konerko and C Lee next offseason, I see us going into a very different rebuilding mode than the one we went into in the late 1990s.

I think that this time, we will focus primarily on stockpiling as many upper-tier pitching prospects as we can. We're doing pretty well developing outfielders (Ordonez, C Lee, Rowand, Reed, Anderson), but the last pitcher that we have developed into a good starter is Mark Buehrle. There needs to be a change here. It's getting way too expensive to import pitching through trades and free agency, and we seem to go about our business with young pitchers in the wrong way, rushing them up here too soon.

With arms like Felix Diaz, Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Tyler Lumsden, Ray Liotta, Kris Honel, Arnie Munoz, and Jeff Bajenaru, we have a good head start on this plan. We just need to restock once these guys move up the food chain to the high minors and the major league level.

I think we should seriously entertain the notion of drafting a pitcher with this year's 15th pick, and make several future trades centered around young pitching. For example, if we're pretty much out of contention by July 31,(and I hope that this is not the case, I'm just weighing in on what I would do in this situation) we will have two highly valuable bats that we can move in Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko. What Kenny Williams needs to do is insist on getting pitching in return, and not low minor guys. We need to target Gavin Floyd, Zack Greinke, and Edwin Jackson types that are ready to contribute in 2006.

jackbrohamer
10-19-2004, 03:02 PM
I can't disagree with you on that. Damon has struggled, and Manny looks absolutely HORRENDOUS in leftfield. He is such a butcher out there, it's not even funny.
Damon was absolutely brutal until redeeming himself with the walk and scoring the winning run. That bunt-pop out looked like something a White Sox player would do.

mweflen
10-19-2004, 03:14 PM
Damon was absolutely brutal until redeeming himself with the walk and scoring the winning run. That bunt-pop out looked like something a White Sox player would do.
That's what I was thinking when I saw it. "Man, that looks like something the White Sox would do if they really needed a sac bunt against the Cubs or something..."

mdep524
10-19-2004, 03:33 PM
Agreed. You'd be hard pressed to find an outfielder worse than Manny defensively. He is probably even worse than Sosa in the OF.
He is terrible. What's funny about it to me is Theo Epstein put so much energy into making his infield defense stronger by adding Cabrera and Mientkiewicz and losing Nomar.. but with Manny and Trot The Gimp Nixon out there he has one of the worst defensive outfields I've ever seen. I guess there's nothing Epstein could've done about Manny, but man,talk about lack of range. Nixon made a sliding catch yesterday on a ball that most RFs would catch without even jogging (and then of course Nixon was commended for the great catch by Tim McCarver). Their OF defense has defintely cost them in the ALCS.

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 03:46 PM
Damon was absolutely brutal until redeeming himself with the walk and scoring the winning run. That bunt-pop out looked like something a White Sox player would do.
Mweflen, I was saying this when the Twinks lost that deciding game against
the Yankees, when the Twinks had their chance in the 10th inning and had some bad at-bats, and then had to resort to the weak part (read this JR: Cheaper) of their BP with Lohse in there. the Twinks 3b DIDNT guard the line, letting Lohse surrender a Double ..........
then didnt Pay Attention to ARod on 2nd and just let him Steal 3rd easily.
Pat Borders, who should retire, lets 1 pitch get by him previous inning........ and makes a Weak throw to 3rd, then allows another WILD PITCH to get by him,
allowing ARod to score easily. I totally thought ....thats how the SOX
wouldve lost that game .......... with weaknesses exposed

jabrch
10-19-2004, 03:56 PM
We need to target Gavin Floyd, Zack Greinke, and Edwin Jackson types that are ready to contribute in 2006.
I agree 100% - but I'd be my life that in 2005, neither the Phils or the Royals trade Floyd/Greinke. And I'd bet dinner that Jackson doesn't get traded either. Those are the kind of pitchers who you have to develop. Teams don't trade them just when they are ready to go to the big leagues.

It would take a huge package to acquire those types of players - I'd love to see it happen.

Mohoney
10-19-2004, 05:17 PM
I agree 100% - but I'd be my life that in 2005, neither the Phils or the Royals trade Floyd/Greinke. And I'd bet dinner that Jackson doesn't get traded either. Those are the kind of pitchers who you have to develop. Teams don't trade them just when they are ready to go to the big leagues.

It would take a huge package to acquire those types of players - I'd love to see it happen.
I know that Greinke won't be moved, I'm just using him as an example of a type of guy that we should target.

I'm just saying that if, say, the Phillies really wanted help at the deadline and coveted Carlos Lee, we might be able to get somebody like Gavin Floyd. There is a chance that Lee and Konerko would be highly sought after at the deadline, and one GM might toss in a marquee pitching prospect to get the deal done. Look at what the Mets gave up for Victor Zambrano.

chisox06
10-19-2004, 10:04 PM
I think that this time, we will focus primarily on stockpiling as many upper-tier pitching prospects as we can. We're doing pretty well developing outfielders (Ordonez, C Lee, Rowand, Reed, Anderson), but the last pitcher that we have developed into a good starter is Mark Buehrle. There needs to be a change here. It's getting way too expensive to import pitching through trades and free agency, and we seem to go about our business with young pitchers in the wrong way, rushing them up here too soon.

With arms like Felix Diaz, Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Tyler Lumsden, Ray Liotta, Kris Honel, Arnie Munoz, and Jeff Bajenaru, we have a good head start on this plan. We just need to restock once these guys move up the food chain to the high minors and the major league level.
I think there's the problem. KW consistently depletes out minor league system every year to try and "win now" and obviously that has not worked out. The White Sox have been consistently medicore for the past 4 years now and our GM is to thank for that. This team has to be the worst at rebuilding in the Majors. We dont do it. We trade our minor league talent away in order to get some major leaguers that can be the "final piece of the puzzle" every year. This team hasn't made the playoffs with that in mindset.

Because of the overall mediocrity of the division, the sox always have a chance. But because of the live for the moment mentality of KW, we have nothing to build on because all of our prospects (top developing talent) is traded away, and we start all over again.

I guess what Im trying to say is that we have a depleted minor league system (especially pitching) and have no playoff appearances to show for our rape and pillage of the youngsters. With a medium level market team I think this is the wrong mentality.

Lip Man 1
10-19-2004, 10:23 PM
Chisox06:

I agree partially with your comments however it is a fact that 99% of all the 'prospects' traded away by Kenny have done squat in the majors.

I personally don't think they were anything to write home about to start with and my philosophy has always been to trade the 'maybe's' for those who 'have' anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

One can also extrapolate that since those prospects haven't done anything they aren't any good anyway which leads to the question of why were they drafted by the Sox in the first place and who drafted them?

Lip

batmanZoSo
10-19-2004, 10:42 PM
I've found this time of the year, especially recently, always somewhat depressing. Watching this entire Red Sox/Yankees series really shows how good those teams are. Last night's game was freakin' epic. Posada's arm. Guy's laying down a bunt when it mattered. Big hits. Big stolen bases. Big strikeouts. Big defensive plays in the field. I don't mean to sound corny, but it's almost like watching a play or a good movie. It's art. These two teams are on a level so far above the Sox right now that's its scary.

The Yankees are even scarier because they consistently just glide through the season, but in October they seem to become a mosnter than is unstoppable. Jeter and Posada just exude confidence. It's incredible.

Perfectly put there.

The difference is so unbelievable, I mean can you imagine the Sox EVER in games like these? My god, they'd fold so fast it's not even funny. Or maybe it is.

They can't even beat Seattle in a best-of-five...can't even win a game. You could never expect them to come through and take out a better team, like Toronto in 93. And when they ARE the better team, they completely choke (83). Different players, same result.

And watching both series right now, man, we're not even CLOSE to being able to win games like that. A whole lot has to change for us to see days like this.

johnny bench
10-20-2004, 05:56 AM
This organization is just not up to par with those in the Bronx and in Boston. Those organizations want to win, and they spend the money for it.
Agreed. Isn't it ironic though that up until 3 days ago, we all would have placed Boston in the same lovable losers category as the Cubs? They beat the Yankees three times and we can't say enough good things about them.

Our problem isn't who KW has traded away. It's the lack of commitment to signing/acquiring one of those very very few major league players who lead a team to victory with their absolute dedication to winning. No Schilling, no RedSox. Without Clemens, Jeff Kent would be golfing today.

BTW. We are all moaning about how bad the White Sox will be next year. I promise you that it will be even worse nest year because the Cubs will be better by subtracting chief loser Sammy Sosa. If they go out and get a killer like Beltran...

chisox06
10-20-2004, 11:35 AM
Chisox06:

I agree partially with your comments however it is a fact that 99% of all the 'prospects' traded away by Kenny have done squat in the majors.

I personally don't think they were anything to write home about to start with and my philosophy has always been to trade the 'maybe's' for those who 'have' anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

One can also extrapolate that since those prospects haven't done anything they aren't any good anyway which leads to the question of why were they drafted by the Sox in the first place and who drafted them?

LipI hear exactly what your saying, but I think their are some major points here are 1.) some of this talent hasn't had a chance to see what they are really capable of (Royce Ring, Jeremy Reed for example), 2.) If the sox consitently have the mindset of trading our top prospects away its only a matter of time before it really comes back to bite us.

For Example when we acquired Carl Everett for the second time, we gave up prospects 2 times over in 2yrs, thats just flat out ridiculous, and it definitely is not the most beneficial way to acquire players.

Im definitely not against bringing players in through trades that can make a difference down the stretch but I think this organization relies way to much on the system of trading top notch maybe's for possible difference makers that can contribute right now. Considering were a medium market team and we dont have the resources to go out and bid cosistently for top notch free agents, rebuilding and scouting for minor league talent is a MUST for this teams success (look at the Twins and A's for example). There is no doubt that this organization needs to be much more responsible for our minor league system, because before you know it everyone will be gone and no one will want the crap we have left, and then your in real trouble.

Hangar18
10-20-2004, 11:47 AM
BTW. We are all moaning about how bad the White Sox will be next year. I promise you that it will be even worse nest year because the Cubs will be better by subtracting chief loser Sammy Sosa. If they go out and get a killer like Beltran...
:reinsy
" How many times do I have to tell you People ....... Chicago is a SMALL MARKET!!!!!!!!!!!! We cant afford big-time, difference-making, grinder type players like Beltran. How do you expect the Cubs to sign him, when they play in a SMALL MARKET ALSO??!!! and in a SMALLER STADIUM???!!! "