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bigredrudy
10-14-2004, 07:11 PM
A lot has been written about Joe-almost all of it negative. Since I am retired I got to see Joe play every day. First of all no one tries harder than Joe. He gives it his all-much like Aaron Rowand. One of the things that stood out about Joe was that he was a very unlucky hitter. He must have hit at least 15 balls that would have normally been hits. The balls were either at someone or someone made a great play. I liked a lot of things he did. First of all he showed power to all fields. Also he drew a number of walks. Although he did not always play great defense, he showed the tools that could make him a good defensive player. Joe's big problem is that he tries too hard and is always trying to impress. Joe, by all accounts, is a good clubhouse guy. A lot is made about Joe's strikeouts. I think too much. If Joe could hit .250, I think he could hit 35 homeruns.I think he could be an Adam Dunn. One of the things thsat most fans don't take in consideration is that Joe essentially is a free ballplayer for the next few years. I think Joe Borchard should open in right field for the White Sox next year and the Sox should add pitching instead of worrying about right field.

Flight #24
10-14-2004, 08:29 PM
A lot has been written about Joe-almost all of it negative. Since I am retired I got to see Joe play every day. First of all no one tries harder than Joe. He gives it his all-much like Aaron Rowand. One of the things that stood out about Joe was that he was a very unlucky hitter. He must have hit at least 15 balls that would have normally been hits. The balls were either at someone or someone made a great play. I liked a lot of things he did. First of all he showed power to all fields. Also he drew a number of walks. Although he did not always play great defense, he showed the tools that could make him a good defensive player. Joe's big problem is that he tries too hard and is always trying to impress. Joe, by all accounts, is a good clubhouse guy. A lot is made about Joe's strikeouts. I think too much. If Joe could hit .250, I think he could hit 35 homeruns.I think he could be an Adam Dunn. One of the things thsat most fans don't take in consideration is that Joe essentially is a free ballplayer for the next few years. I think Joe Borchard should open in right field for the White Sox next year and the Sox should add pitching instead of worrying about right field.
First off: Welcome aboard!!!

Nice to hear first hand reports for someone with direct knowledge of a player. I know many here root a ton for Joe because he does seem to be a hard worker, blue collar type of guy. The only problem is that the team has a lot of power/mediocre OBP guys, so Joe's further unbalancing the offense (although if Knerko/s traded, that might not be so true).

I for one think he's going to get better ALA A-Row, the work ethic combined with raw talent usually ends up a s a good combination.

A. Cavatica
10-14-2004, 08:55 PM
Good to have you aboard, Joe Borchard Sr.!

gosox41
10-15-2004, 09:04 AM
A lot has been written about Joe-almost all of it negative. Since I am retired I got to see Joe play every day. First of all no one tries harder than Joe. He gives it his all-much like Aaron Rowand. One of the things that stood out about Joe was that he was a very unlucky hitter. He must have hit at least 15 balls that would have normally been hits. The balls were either at someone or someone made a great play. I liked a lot of things he did. First of all he showed power to all fields. Also he drew a number of walks. Although he did not always play great defense, he showed the tools that could make him a good defensive player. Joe's big problem is that he tries too hard and is always trying to impress. Joe, by all accounts, is a good clubhouse guy. A lot is made about Joe's strikeouts. I think too much. If Joe could hit .250, I think he could hit 35 homeruns.I think he could be an Adam Dunn. One of the things thsat most fans don't take in consideration is that Joe essentially is a free ballplayer for the next few years. I think Joe Borchard should open in right field for the White Sox next year and the Sox should add pitching instead of worrying about right field.
If Borchard turned out anything like Dunn I'd be thrilled.


Bob

Shingotime!!
10-17-2004, 09:05 PM
I am really hopping that Joe developes as a hitter because he has huge potential. Later in the session he hit many more balls hard with consistancy. I believe our outfield is pretty solid (barring any trades) that we can worry more about pitching. How is Joe doing in Mexico?

duke of dorwood
10-18-2004, 08:14 AM
I agree with the poster 100%

And Welcome to WSI

hitlesswonder
10-18-2004, 10:39 AM
I am really hopping that Joe developes as a hitter because he has huge potential. Later in the session he hit many more balls hard with consistancy. I believe our outfield is pretty solid (barring any trades) that we can worry more about pitching. How is Joe doing in Mexico?
Borchard isn't doing real well. He's hitting .111 in 18 games for Mazatlan. He also has 2 errors. It's not a lot of at bats (18 I think). You can find the stats here (http://www.ligadelpacifico.com.mx/estadisticas/estadisticas.asp). IMO, he's not going to become Adam Dunn. Dunn is the same age Borchard is and his walk rate is tremedous (Joe's walk rate is just OK). But if Borchard could just hit something like .260, he would be an asset at the major league level. My question is, for people who have seen him play a lot, is he a good defensive outfielder? He didn't look great to me in right for the Sox this year, but that's just from seeing some stuff on TV, not in person. Plus I'm not going to be hired as a scout anytime soon:smile:

Shingotime!!
10-18-2004, 07:14 PM
Defensivly, Joe isnt gracful, but if he has the chance to pick up his pitcher he will be willing to risk giving up a double. Joe has decent speed along with a good arm.

MUsoxfan
10-19-2004, 02:35 AM
A lot has been written about Joe-almost all of it negative. Since I am retired I got to see Joe play every day. First of all no one tries harder than Joe. He gives it his all-much like Aaron Rowand. .
I like the way you think. Rowand is my favorite player on the team and i've been a big supporter of him. Borchard had to come up prematurely but he will become a big-game player sooner than later. Rowand is the exact same type of player. Welcome aboard my friend.

Deadguy
10-19-2004, 07:38 AM
You can find the stats here (http://www.ligadelpacifico.com.mx/estadisticas/estadisticas.asp).
Larry Sutton's still around? Sheesh, never say die, I guess. The only reason I know that name is because he went to the U of IL, but at his age, I figured he would have given it up by now.

idseer
10-19-2004, 10:58 AM
imo the sooner we all forget about joe the better.

flo-B-flo
10-19-2004, 07:57 PM
I like the way you think. Rowand is my favorite player on the team and i've been a big supporter of him. Borchard had to come up prematurely but he will become a big-game player sooner than later. Rowand is the exact same type of player. Welcome aboard my friend. love your sig man. I balled my eyes out when Al passed.:whiner:

Parrothead
10-24-2004, 11:02 PM
Good to have you aboard, Joe Borchard Sr.!:kneeslap::roflmao::rolling:

ondafarm
10-25-2004, 09:58 AM
Defensivly, Joe isnt gracful, but if he has the chance to pick up his pitcher he will be willing to risk giving up a double. Joe has decent speed along with a good arm.
I think Joe's speed is deceptive. He actually covers a lot of ground and gets to more balls than Magglio. It's sort of a Dave Winfield thing.

DrCrawdad
10-26-2004, 05:29 PM
I think Joe's speed is deceptive. He actually covers a lot of ground and gets to more balls than Magglio. It's sort of a Dave Winfield thing.

I was somewhat disappointed with Borchard's defense.

Infallible
01-15-2005, 03:32 PM
I think Joe needs to see more full game time in the big leagues. He deserves as much of a look as Dransfeldt does.

Whitesox029
01-15-2005, 05:23 PM
I was somewhat disappointed with Borchard's defense. I was somewhat disappointed with Joe. Period. He should start at AAA so he can get playing time and come up only if and when Dye gets hurt.

OG4LIFE
01-15-2005, 06:27 PM
I was somewhat disappointed with Borchard's defense.

when i watched joe play, i thought he covered more ground than your average OF, and had a CANNON for an arm...

i'm saying that, and i hate joe borchard.

B M l o t 7
01-15-2005, 07:14 PM
Finally a person who isn't bashing on borchard, you notice until 2004 Araon Rownad wasn't exactly doing so good. And now he is the best player ever. I think we should give this guy some time, he never got a big chance to play. If Dye gets hurt again I say let the guy play. If he does bad then.... maybe we should think about giving up on him, but not until he gets real playing time.

JB98
01-15-2005, 07:27 PM
Finally a person who isn't bashing on borchard, you notice until 2004 Araon Rownad wasn't exactly doing so good. And now he is the best player ever. I think we should give this guy some time, he never got a big chance to play. If Dye gets hurt again I say let the guy play. If he does bad then.... maybe we should think about giving up on him, but not until he gets real playing time.

I think Borchard got plenty of playing time the second half of last year, and he hit about .160. Rowand never struggled that badly or looked as helpless at the plate as Borchard did.

The Sox would be making a horrible mistake by giving Borchard a starting job. In fact, KW went out and signed Dye because Joe showed us last year that he isn't ready to be the full-time RF.

BTW, Rowand was pretty damn good in a part-time role in 2003. His 2004 breakout was not that big of a surprise.

JB98
01-15-2005, 07:28 PM
I think Joe needs to see more full game time in the big leagues. He deserves as much of a look as Dransfeldt does.

Dransfeldt deserves a look on the basis of what?

Whitesox029
01-16-2005, 12:31 PM
Finally a person who isn't bashing on borchard, you notice until 2004 Araon Rownad wasn't exactly doing so good. And now he is the best player ever. I think we should give this guy some time, he never got a big chance to play. If Dye gets hurt again I say let the guy play. If he does bad then.... maybe we should think about giving up on him, but not until he gets real playing time.
Rowand started performing like a major league player when he started that rigorous training program he does. When Borchard joins him, I'll give him another chance.
As of right now he strikes out waaaay too much.
In 2004, Timo Perez had 92 more at-bats than Borchard and struck out 28 fewer times. If we didn't have Dye, I would rather see Perez in right every day over Borchard. If we take it to averages, Borchard's Strikeouts to At-bats average is .282. Dye's is .240, Perez's is .099. If you're going to make outs, put the ball in play.

California Sox
01-16-2005, 01:36 PM
If Dye gets hurt again I say let the guy play. If he does bad then.... maybe we should think about giving up on him, but not until he gets real playing time.

There comes a time when performance has to be rewarded and lack of performance equals lack of playing time. Fact is, Joe's caught in a numbers game right now. Chances are that if Dye gets hurt in, say, July the guy who'd be brought up to take his spot is Anderson, not Joe. Now, one would have thought Reed would have been the guy when Magglio got hurt last year, so you can never tell, but Joe's chances diminish with every AB Anderson gets in the minors.

Also, as Frank gets healthy Crazy Carl's going to be hunting for ABs. I have a theory that he may get some at the expense of Podsednick (particularly if the .313 OBP comes back). But clearly if Dye were unable to play, Everett would be the choice over Joe, Timo, or Anderson.

Infallible
01-16-2005, 05:30 PM
Dransfeldt deserves a look on the basis of what?

based on no one else was doing jack squat for us last year. I don't care if he plays outfield or infield or what make them play a position.....with exception to the HR's look at Valentin, Crede, and Timo's numbers last year. They sucked it up. If Borchard or Dransfeldt turn out to be nothing better than any of them then nothing was lost was it? At least try something new. We didn't keep bringing Koch out over and over and over (well ok maybe we did) but eventually we wised up and tried someone else. At least the attempt was made to improve the system and not continue to ride out the same old same old.

JB98
01-16-2005, 08:24 PM
based on no one else was doing jack squat for us last year. I don't care if he plays outfield or infield or what make them play a position.....with exception to the HR's look at Valentin, Crede, and Timo's numbers last year. They sucked it up. If Borchard or Dransfeldt turn out to be nothing better than any of them then nothing was lost was it? At least try something new. We didn't keep bringing Koch out over and over and over (well ok maybe we did) but eventually we wised up and tried someone else. At least the attempt was made to improve the system and not continue to ride out the same old same old.

Dransfeldt playing outfield? That's a laugh. The guy is a career utility infielder in the minor leagues, and you want to give him a shot as a major-league outfielder? Give me a break. Kelly has decent hands, but no range whatsoever. He's weaker defensively than any infielder we have on our team. Crede is far, far superior defensively. As for the offense, I think Dransfeldt would hit .230 or .240 at best if he played everyday. And he has little power. The Sox would be better off with Wilson Valdez as a fifth infielder.

JB98
01-17-2005, 10:54 AM
Rowand started performing like a major league player when he started that rigorous training program he does. When Borchard joins him, I'll give him another chance.
As of right now he strikes out waaaay too much.
In 2004, Timo Perez had 92 more at-bats than Borchard and struck out 28 fewer times. If we didn't have Dye, I would rather see Perez in right every day over Borchard. If we take it to averages, Borchard's Strikeouts to At-bats average is .282. Dye's is .240, Perez's is .099. If you're going to make outs, put the ball in play.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I don't think a rigorous training program is going to help Borchard. Joe can hit the ball over .500 feet. I don't believe lack of physical strength is his problem.

eriqjaffe
01-17-2005, 11:15 AM
Dransfeldt deserves a look on the basis of what?Hey, it cost a lot of money to stitch all those letters on the jerseys! You want that cash to go to waste?

B M l o t 7
01-17-2005, 11:34 AM
I see your point that about Joe striking out a lot however you say that you should place Timo there instead? There is a reason why he was drafted in the first round, people saw potential in him. Joe Crede has been playing for what 3 years starting and he hasn't nearly produced to his potential. Since we sign Dye I don't see him getting any playing time for the sox anymore, but this guy could still do well in the major leagues. There might be a possibility in sending a package of Joe and Ben Davis to the dodgers, since the Dodgers have expressed interest in Davis and try to get some utility fielder or even Jeff Kent even though that's a long shot.

mcfish
01-17-2005, 01:59 PM
Joe can hit the ball over .500 feet. I don't believe lack of physical strength is his problem.
I ate a Subway sandwich twice that size today. :redneck

Brian26
01-28-2005, 12:00 PM
Dransfeldt deserves a look on the basis of what?

Kelly did a hell of a job last May when he was on the team. He had a couple of really big hits in limited playing time.

ozzman
01-28-2005, 01:14 PM
Kelly did a hell of a job last May when he was on the team. He had a couple of really big hits in limited playing time.

He was also superb at lettings balls get through the five hole

popilius
01-28-2005, 01:35 PM
I was somewhat disappointed with Borchard's defense.

I was actually impressed by Borchard' defense. . . maybe I was just expecting little to begin with. As someone else put it, Joe's not graceful, but he can cover some ground, and he made some pretty nice plays agains the wall at the end of the year. . .

Infallible
01-28-2005, 05:21 PM
This guys a champion waiting in the wings.....give this guy another year......hell we've given Crede another.

PAPChiSox729
02-04-2005, 11:02 PM
The thing that Joe needs right now is a new team. Give him a fresh start with a young club like the D-Rays or Pittsburgh. It maybe two or three more years before Joe gets any consideration to land even a 4th outfielder spot on this team. Currently, in the outfield, he is behind Podsednik, Rowand, Dye, Perez, Escobar, and Everett. Trading Borchard would help not only the Sox, but Joe B. as well.

Fake Chet Lemon
02-19-2005, 10:04 PM
I think Borchard is going to be 27 this year? He's past the potential stage. Plus he makes Crede look like Ted Williams at the plate. HE GONE (soon).

jake27
02-19-2005, 10:34 PM
ive never bought into the "try hard" thing. trying hard doesnt mean your good, or are going to be good. i know a ton of people who tried hard on my baseball team, that doesnt mean they should get anything special for it. if you try hard and your talent improves, then good. but if you try hard and you sux (borchard), i dont care then, be gone.

gosox41
02-19-2005, 11:37 PM
ive never bought into the "try hard" thing. trying hard doesnt mean your good, or are going to be good. i know a ton of people who tried hard on my baseball team, that doesnt mean they should get anything special for it. if you try hard and your talent improves, then good. but if you try hard and you sux (borchard), i dont care then, be gone.

There's a point where the Sox are going to need to cut ties with Joe if he doesn't get it together. I could care less if he can run like Mays and throw like Mantle with power similar to McGwire. He can't hit well.


I hope he gets it together this year.


Bob

CleeFan101
02-20-2005, 01:50 PM
i wouldnt mind keeping him if he could run like mays and throw like mantle :dtroll:

MisterB
02-20-2005, 06:32 PM
i wouldnt mind keeping him if he could run like mays and throw like mantle :dtroll:

http://www.fmstar.com/graphic/j/j0171.jpg
"You may run like Hayes, but you hit like ****."

Frater Perdurabo
02-21-2005, 08:06 AM
i wouldnt mind keeping him if he could run like mays and throw like mantle :dtroll:

The problem is that he hits like Mendoza.

DrCrawdad
02-24-2005, 11:32 AM
Reading the articles today at WhiteSox.com about Anderson and Josh Fields (the 3rd baseman) got me thinking about Joe Borchard. I don't remember reading one word about Borchard in the short time they've been in Spring Training. Is Borchard at the Sox major league Spring Training, or is he with the minor leagues? Assuming Borchard won't be on the 25 man roster Opening Day, does he have any options left? Will this be Borchard's last season with the Sox organization?

Jabroni
02-24-2005, 11:51 AM
Reading the articles today at WhiteSox.com about Anderson and Josh Fields (the 3rd baseman) got me thinking about Joe Borchard. I don't remember reading one word about Borchard in the short time they've been in Spring Training. Is Borchard at the Sox major league Spring Training, or is he with the minor leagues? Assuming Borchard won't be on the 25 man roster Opening Day, does he have any options left? Will this be Borchard's last season with the Sox organization?I think Borchard and Willie are going to be packaged in a trade.

Ol' No. 2
02-24-2005, 12:19 PM
Reading the articles today at WhiteSox.com about Anderson and Josh Fields (the 3rd baseman) got me thinking about Joe Borchard. I don't remember reading one word about Borchard in the short time they've been in Spring Training. Is Borchard at the Sox major league Spring Training, or is he with the minor leagues? Assuming Borchard won't be on the 25 man roster Opening Day, does he have any options left? Will this be Borchard's last season with the Sox organization?One more option year left.

DrCrawdad
02-24-2005, 12:51 PM
One more option year left.

IMHO the Sox plan when they drafted Borchard was that Borchard would replace Ordonez in RF when Ordonez left as a FA. Unfortunately, Borchard failed, not because he didn't work at it, because he just can't hit the ball consistently. When Ordonez went down with the injury last season Borchard had his opportunity. FLOP!

Now Borchard will have play everyday in AAA. Now Borchard will be auditioning in AAA for his next team, that may come as a result of being traded or being let go by the Sox.

I'm very disappointed about Borchard. Borchard's failure doesn't seem to be a result of Borchard's effort or desire.

In an attempt to be positive...Maybe Borchard will start hitting and mashing the ball.

Ol' No. 2
02-24-2005, 01:09 PM
IMHO the Sox plan when they drafted Borchard was that Borchard would replace Ordonez in RF when Ordonez left as a FA. Unfortunately, Borchard failed, not because he didn't work at it, because he just can't hit the ball consistently. When Ordonez went down with the injury last season Borchard had his opportunity. FLOP!

Now Borchard will have play everyday in AAA. Now Borchard will be auditioning in AAA for his next team, that may come as a result of being traded or being let go by the Sox.

I'm very disappointed about Borchard. Borchard's failure doesn't seem to be a result of Borchard's effort or desire.

In an attempt to be positive...Maybe Borchard will start hitting and mashing the ball.I think Borchard could hit .500 with 12 HR in spring training and Kenny STILL wouldn't put him on the roster. They'll keep him in Charlotte another year in hopes he'll play well enough down there to have some trade value.

DrCrawdad
02-24-2005, 01:28 PM
I think Borchard could hit .500 with 12 HR in spring training and Kenny STILL wouldn't put him on the roster. They'll keep him in Charlotte another year in hopes he'll play well enough down there to have some trade value.

I agree. Borchard will be in AAA. I meant Borchard mashing the ball in ST and then with AAA.

Hopefully Borchard will mash the ball to increase his trade value. If Borchard were to hit in AAA then if there were an opening in the Sox outfield maybe they'd call him up.

The signing of Dye signalled an end to Borchard's future with the Sox.

No doubt though Borchard's future is with another team, maybe that will be a football team.

kitekrazy
02-24-2005, 02:23 PM
Wasn't Borchard released by a team in the winter leagues? That should tell you something there? Give him another year in the minors then declare him a bust.
He wasn't ready to be brought up last year. Sometimes that can be a bad mistake with young players. Remember when Ruffkorn was brought up to pitch against Cleveland? That was some poor chance at success. That still amazes to this day.

Jabroni
02-24-2005, 04:19 PM
Wasn't Borchard released by a team in the winter leagues? That should tell you something there? Give him another year in the minors then declare him a bust.
He wasn't ready to be brought up last year. Sometimes that can be a bad mistake with young players. Remember when Ruffkorn was brought up to pitch against Cleveland? That was some poor chance at success. That still amazes to this day.Yep, the Mexican League. Pretty sad. :whiner: