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View Full Version : October 2004. Is this the LOWEST youve ever Felt as a SOX Fan?


Hangar18
10-13-2004, 11:53 AM
I thought about this last nite, talking "baseball" with some Cub fans and a Yankee fan. I discovered im NOT optimistic about next year, MOSTLY because I know whats gonna happen, and Ive seen this happen with this
same team/ownership a couple of times already. Like seeing a Bad Movie
where you know the ending beforehand ......... but are FORCED to watch it
anyway. In my lifetime, I felt pretty down in
1975 (almost moved)
1983 (almost WS),
1988 (almost moved)
1994 (kept ourselves from WS),
1995 (Cut Payroll)
1997 (gave up midseason to start over again),
2001 (Cut Payroll resulting in No PostSeason),
2003 ( Cut Payroll & Injuries Resulted in No Postseason)
2004 (Will Cut Payroll Further-bleak future)

steff
10-13-2004, 12:06 PM
:whiner:



:rolleyes:

Hangar18
10-13-2004, 12:09 PM
basically, the gist of my "baseball" conversation was ......... Im to the point
Im starting to not care anymore. A guy I see often in a local watering hole,
hasnt seen me in a few weeks since the season ended, asked me in one Sentence on seeing me ........ "What the H*** are these guys gonna do?"
I said "Cut more payroll" and then "and I dont even care anymore".
Sighs. Are the bears gonna be any good this year? :smile:

steff
10-13-2004, 12:12 PM
basically, the gist of my "baseball" conversation was ......... Im to the point
Im starting to not care anymore. A guy I see often in a local watering hole,
hasnt seen me in a few weeks since the season ended, asked me in one Sentence on seeing me ........ "What the H*** are these guys gonna do?"
I said "Cut more payroll" and then "and I dont even care anymore".
Sighs. Are the bears gonna be any good this year? :smile:

Please don't tease us Henry... :tongue:

Cubsuck_a_lot
10-13-2004, 12:19 PM
basically, the gist of my "baseball" conversation was ......... Im to the point
Im starting to not care anymore. A guy I see often in a local watering hole,
hasnt seen me in a few weeks since the season ended, asked me in one Sentence on seeing me ........ "What the H*** are these guys gonna do?"
I said "Cut more payroll" and then "and I dont even care anymore".
Sighs. Are the bears gonna be any good this year? :smile:

maybe no the bears, but i hear the Chicago Fire can rock the house. seriously though. i actually start getting depressed when i think about the White Sox now. is that normal? sometimes, when times are really down like this, i look to the North Side and think to myself how blissful ignorance really can be. If i were a flub fan (love the alliteration), i would have no idea what's going on anyway, so i would simply sip my beer and wonder aloud to my friend on the other line of my cell phone, "hey, i think im on tv!"

Gosox1917
10-13-2004, 12:21 PM
I've been a baseball and White Sox fan since only 1996 which is when I first started playing little league. I was a late bloomer when it came to watching sports so fortunatley I missed the '94 strike. So i voted for the 2003 cutting payroll. This year came to a close second, however. I don't plan on giving up on the team though because I've put in way too much time and money into the Sox to give up. GO SOX!!! (sigh)

steff
10-13-2004, 12:24 PM
Henry.. would you mind posting your source for the final choice on your poll... (lying and threatening).


Thanks..

Baby Fisk
10-13-2004, 12:25 PM
maybe no the bears, but i hear the Chicago Fire can rock the house. seriously though. i actually start getting depressed when i think about the White Sox now. is that normal? sometimes, when times are really down like this, i look to the North Side and think to myself how blissful ignorance really can be. If i were a flub fan (love the alliteration), i would have no idea what's going on anyway, so i would simply sip my beer and wonder aloud to my friend on the other line of my cell phone, "hey, i think im on tv!"Cubs fan: "So when are our playoff games?"

Seriously tho, I kind of feel the same way as Hangar and CSAL -- if the organization doesn't seem to care enough, why should we? Somehow a fiery e-mail from Kenny Williams every few months just doesn't do it for me. Malaise malaise malaise! :(:

Hangar18
10-13-2004, 12:39 PM
Henry.. would you mind posting your source for the final choice on your poll... (lying and threatening).


Thanks..
Steff, my sources are:

1: The numerous media articles reporting pessimistically the SOX NOT
going after key free agents
2: Past Jerry Reinsdorf History

pinwheels3530
10-13-2004, 12:43 PM
basically, the gist of my "baseball" conversation was ......... Im to the point
Im starting to not care anymore. A guy I see often in a local watering hole,
hasnt seen me in a few weeks since the season ended, asked me in one Sentence on seeing me ........ "What the H*** are these guys gonna do?"
I said "Cut more payroll" and then "and I dont even care anymore".
Sighs. Are the bears gonna be any good this year? :smile:

I'll feel bad if Magglio signs with Cubs, which could happen.

Tekijawa
10-13-2004, 12:45 PM
Steff, my sources are:

1: The numerous media articles reporting pessimistically the SOX NOT
going after key free agents
2: Past Jerry Reinsdorf History
The media tod me I'd be watching the Cubs sweeping the Yankees in the World Series...

Jerry has spent in certain Situations, Albert Belle's contract was too rich even for the Yankees at the time.... Navarro didn't come Cheap, in many sences of the word. It's just every year I pray harder and harder that this is one of those seasons.

Hangar18
10-13-2004, 12:48 PM
I'll feel bad if Magglio signs with Cubs, which could happen.
Please dont say that. Its enough they stole the 7th Inning stretch,
Harry Caray, and now OO ee OO Magglioooo. Im repulsed and definitely
think I would stop watching baseball if that happened .............:angry:

Deadguy
10-13-2004, 12:48 PM
I voted for 1997. I literally cried when the Sox lost to the Angels that night of THE TRADE.

Tekijawa
10-13-2004, 12:48 PM
I'll feel bad if Magglio signs with Cubs, which could happen.
He could also never play another game... He's not comming back from a hang nail!

CubKilla
10-13-2004, 12:55 PM
"and I dont even care anymore".That's my whole philosophy now when dealing with all things JR/White Sox. If the people running the franchise care more about $$$ than respectability (except KW..... who I know cares more about the White Sox than anyone else running the Organization..... he's just over his head as GM) in a large market w/2 ML baseball teams, then why should I give a flying fig? We both know JR will not make a serious run at any of the upper tier FA's in the offseason..... unless they agree to meet w/JR without their agent or agree to "Diminished Skills Clauses" complete w/backloaded contracts..... so what is there to get excited about this offseason? More huge signings on par with Juan Uribe? Or maybe another huge FA pitching signing of some scrub with sub .500 lifetime numbers while JR hopes KW caught another one-year wonder ala Esteban Loaiza Version .'03?

Yep..... I don't even care anymore.

pinwheels3530
10-13-2004, 12:56 PM
He could also never play another game... He's not comming back from a hang nail!

I think Magglio will be back, just not with the Sox. If the rumor is true that he loves it here in Chicago and wants to stay here then the Wrigleyville team is a option.

Hangar if Maggs sign with the Cubs, but we sign Beltran would you be cool with that!

CubKilla
10-13-2004, 01:00 PM
Jerry has spent in certain Situations, Albert Belle's contract was too rich even for the Yankees at the time
This has been beaten like a dead horse but many here and in the media agree that the Albert Belle signing was more JR trying to shove the conclusion to the '94 labor impasse right in the face of the MLB owners who voted to end it (JR was the only one to vote to keep the impasse in place) than JR actually trying to win.

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2004, 01:02 PM
Steff, my sources are:

1: The numerous media articles reporting pessimistically the SOX NOT
going after key free agentsBy media articles, do you mean Moronotti? There's a source for you. Haven't you learned by now not to trust anything written in the Cubs-infatuated media? Next time you read an article, look at how much is what was actually said by KW or whoever, and how much is the reporter's interpretation of what was said. It's usually only a little of the former and a big stinking pile of the latter.

Kenny has said more times than I can count that his first priority in the off-season is another #1-#3 starter. How much plainer can he get? He hasn't (can't) mention names, and even if he could, he'd be dumb to do so. And in fact, he can't really do anything much until after the WS ends anyway.

I'm actually a lot more optimistic than I was last year because it seems that Kenny finally gets it. In years past it seemed that the priority was always on another hitter. Now he's after pitching. At last!!!! :)

thepaulbowski
10-13-2004, 01:02 PM
Steff, my sources are:

1: The numerous media articles reporting pessimistically the SOX NOT
going after key free agents
2: Past Jerry Reinsdorf History
That is speculation not a "source."

thepaulbowski
10-13-2004, 01:04 PM
I'm actually a lot more optimistic than I was last year because it seems that Kenny finally gets it. In years past it seemed that the priority was always on another hitter. Now he's after pitching. At last!!!! :)
Oh great, now you've probably started another bash KW thread. :o:

CubKilla
10-13-2004, 01:05 PM
Kenny has said more times than I can count that his first priority in the off-season is another #1-#3 starter. How much plainer can he get?
Resigning the Sox FA class of '03 was first priority for KW last year too and he resigned a grand total of ZERO of the White Sox FA's.

I'll believe KW's was serious when I see it. As I said before, even though I think he's ill-equipped to be GM of the White Sox, KW will try to get who he feels will be best suited for next years team. Unfortunately, KW doesn't sign the paychecks.

thepaulbowski
10-13-2004, 01:07 PM
Resigning the Sox FA class of '03 was first priority for KW last year too and he resigned a grand total of ZERO of the White Sox FA's.

I'll believe KW's was serious when I see it. As I said before, even though I think he's ill-equipped to be GM of the White Sox, KW will try to get who he feels will be best suited for next years team. Unfortunately, KW doesn't sign the paychecks.
Boy that didn't take long.

CubKilla
10-13-2004, 01:07 PM
That is speculation not a "source."
And JR has a 20+ year record of cheapness to conclude that Hangar's "speculation" is true.

pinwheels3530
10-13-2004, 01:14 PM
The Sox ownership needs to start acting like a major market ballcub, no more of this we'll do enough to win the division crap..........we can't even do that!:angry:

The Angels are no longer satisfied being second fiddle to the Dodgers, their new ownership has aggressively went out and captured a big chunk of the Southern California market. What are the Sox waiting for? We should be right up there with the Yankees and Red Sox as a major force in the AL, not just the division!:angry:

I wish JR would go out and make the Chicago White Sox a brand a baseball that will be respected and not be looked at as the second team. The other team will spend more money again next season resulting in better players while we settle for second tier guys again.....and get treated like the red headed step child again:(: in our own city!!!!!

Tekijawa
10-13-2004, 01:17 PM
...while JR hopes KW caught another one-year wonder ala Esteban Loaiza Version .'03?
I'd just like to say that it has always been my belief that Esteban Loiza's success was the worst thing that happend to this team outside of the Black Sox Scandal... It set us back FA more than the '94 season ever could have.

CubKilla
10-13-2004, 01:22 PM
What are the Sox waiting for?
For you to show up at the ballpark! :tongue:

:reinsy

"Show up to my ballpark and I'll field a winner..... on paper at least."

pinwheels3530
10-13-2004, 01:25 PM
For you to show up at the ballpark! :tongue:

:reinsy

"Show up to my ballpark and I'll field a winner..... on paper at least."

Even when we do he won't spend!!!!!:angry:

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2004, 01:34 PM
Resigning the Sox FA class of '03 was first priority for KW last year too and he resigned a grand total of ZERO of the White Sox FA's.

I'll believe KW's was serious when I see it. As I said before, even though I think he's ill-equipped to be GM of the White Sox, KW will try to get who he feels will be best suited for next years team. Unfortunately, KW doesn't sign the paychecks.Who was the FA class of '03???

Bartolo Colon: Made a more-than-fair offer. Anaheim topped it, and overpaid IMO.
Tom Gordon: Outbid by the Yankees. Heavens, how could he get outbid by the Yankees???

Am I forgetting anyone? That's about it.

Iwritecode
10-13-2004, 01:37 PM
We proved at the beginning of this year that if the team wins, we will show up to support them. Once the team started falling, so did the attendance.

Now it's up to JR and company to put a winning team on the field.

Before I start complaining and feeling down, I'm going to sit back and see what the off-season has in store for us...

CubKilla
10-13-2004, 01:38 PM
Who was the FA class of '03???

Bartolo Colon: Made a more-than-fair offer. Anaheim topped it, and overpaid IMO.
Tom Gordon: Outbid by the Yankees. Heavens, how could he get outbid by the Yankees???

Am I forgetting anyone? That's about it.
Tony Graffenino, Sullivan, Alomar Jr., and Everett are the others off the top of my head. There were 5-7 if I remember correctly. Granted, Alomar Jr. and Everett would obviously not have worked out. I'm just pointing out that because KW says he will do it, doesn't mean he will get it done.

Talk is cheap.

thepaulbowski
10-13-2004, 01:53 PM
Before I start complaining and feeling down, I'm going to sit back and see what the off-season has in store for us...
Stop being rational. That isn't allowed. :)

CubKilla
10-13-2004, 01:57 PM
Before I start complaining and feeling down, I'm going to sit back and see what the off-season has in store for us...
That's what I said last offseason. I've learned.

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2004, 02:18 PM
Tony Graffenino, Sullivan, Alomar Jr., and Everett are the others off the top of my head. There were 5-7 if I remember correctly. Granted, Alomar Jr. and Everett would obviously not have worked out. I'm just pointing out that because KW says he will do it, doesn't mean he will get it done.

Talk is cheap.Graffanino wanted to go somewhere that he had a chance to start. Money wasn't really an issue. Sullivan was a guy I would have liked to see kept, but it isn't accurate to say they failed to re-sign him. They decided the didn't want him. Anyway, none of these guys would have made an impact, so they're largely irrelevant.

jabrch
10-13-2004, 02:25 PM
Oh whoa is me. Life is terrible as a Sox fan. We have no hope. Kill me now.


How many more days til pitchers and catchers report? While all the crybabies bitch and moan about how bad things are or will be, I just can't wait til there is baseball on the southside again - for better or for worse. I guess that's just a different outlook on life - no right or wrong - just different.

ChiSoxBobette
10-13-2004, 02:26 PM
I thought about this last nite, talking "baseball" with some Cub fans and a Yankee fan. I discovered im NOT optimistic about next year, MOSTLY because I know whats gonna happen, and Ive seen this happen with this
same team/ownership a couple of times already. Like seeing a Bad Movie
where you know the ending beforehand ......... but are FORCED to watch it
anyway. In my lifetime, I felt pretty down in
1975 (almost moved)
1983 (almost WS),
1988 (almost moved)
1994 (kept ourselves from WS),
1995 (Cut Payroll)
1997 (gave up midseason to start over again),
2001 (Cut Payroll resulting in No PostSeason),
2003 ( Cut Payroll & Injuries Resulted in No Postseason)
2004 (Will Cut Payroll Further-bleak future)
ARE YOU EVER Optimistic!

Iwritecode
10-13-2004, 02:31 PM
That's what I said last offseason. I've learned.

What exactly did we learn last offseason? That you can't judge a season by what is done in the off-season?

You know, for all the moves KW didn't make last year, we had a pretty competitive team that was fighting for first place as late as July (IIRC).

That was right up until we lost the two best players on the team. Something nobody could have foresee, no amount of off-season moves could have prevented and very few teams in MLB can overcome.

Flight #24
10-13-2004, 02:47 PM
Please dont say that. Its enough they stole the 7th Inning stretch,
Harry Caray, and now OO ee OO Magglioooo. Im repulsed and definitely
think I would stop watching baseball if that happened .............:angry:
Purely out of curiosity, Hangar - what would your response be if the Sox resigned Maggs to the rumored 5-yr, 70-mil and then he either didn't play again or was a shell of his former self due to the injury?

Rocky Soprano
10-13-2004, 02:55 PM
Purely out of curiosity, Hangar - what would your response be if the Sox resigned Maggs to the rumored 5-yr, 70-mil and then he either didn't play again or was a shell of his former self due to the injury?It would be something like this:

Why in the world did we sign Maggs? ....
Why arent the Chicago Media Asking this question
also? Why didnt we sign BELTRAN?
Why isnt Jerry Reinsdorfs foolish fiscal policies being exposed?
Why are the Chicago Media writing fluffy articles about the CUBS?
WHY?

BELTRAN alone wouldve had us in the playoffs. Having Big Carlos wouldve
solidified our outfield by not having a bunch of injured players stinking up the spot.

soxtalker
10-13-2004, 02:56 PM
This obviously depends on age and how long you've been a fan. I started cheering for the Sox in about 1960, so I just missed the last WS. '69 or '70 was pretty bad. My vote went to '88, because it really looked like they would move. If I don't include that year as being a special case, I'd put the current time as right up there. It's just that I don't see much hope for next year. I wish there were some great minor league teams that could at least give some hope for the future, but the cupboard appears to be pretty bare. And I'm not sure I see where KW has much more to offer free agents than other teams.

steff
10-13-2004, 03:04 PM
Steff, my sources are:

1: The numerous media articles reporting pessimistically the SOX NOT
going after key free agents
2: Past Jerry Reinsdorf History


Ah. So basically you're ASSming.


There's a shocker.. :rolleyes:

Baby Fisk
10-13-2004, 03:06 PM
It would be something like this:

Why in the world did we sign Maggs? ....
Why arent the Chicago Media Asking this question
also? Why didnt we sign BELTRAN?
Why isnt Jerry Reinsdorfs foolish fiscal policies being exposed?
Why are the Chicago Media writing fluffy articles about the CUBS?
WHY?

BELTRAN alone wouldve had us in the playoffs. Having Big Carlos wouldve
solidified our outfield by not having a bunch of injured players stinking up the spot.Don't forget the dozen daily "Kenny is a dumb-ass" threads that would also be started here. :cool:

steff
10-13-2004, 03:08 PM
Please dont say that. Its enough they stole the 7th Inning stretch,
Harry Caray, and now OO ee OO Magglioooo. Im repulsed and definitely
think I would stop watching baseball if that happened .............:angry:

LOL.. they stole Harry..oye ve..


And I thought it was Baltimore that stole O-E-O Henry..?? Having a little trouble keeping the stories straight..?? :wink:

santo=dorf
10-13-2004, 03:14 PM
Resigning the Sox FA class of '03 was first priority for KW last year too and he resigned a grand total of ZERO of the White Sox FA's.

I'll believe KW's was serious when I see it. As I said before, even though I think he's ill-equipped to be GM of the White Sox, KW will try to get who he feels will be best suited for next years team. Unfortunately, KW doesn't sign the paychecks.Sullivan sold out to the Royals as did Tony G. Both of them were plagued with injuries.
Bartolo Colon sold out to the Angels, and we would'nt have been able to get Garcia, and we would've probably traded either Maggs or Konerko to dump salary just so we could pay Fatolo from the beginning of 2004.
Gordon sold out to the Yankees, and he didn't want to setup behind Koch.
From my understanding, we were going to re-sign Robbie, but his agent screwed up. At least everyone was happy when we got him back last August.
Losing Daubach had more of a positive effect on this team, and Ross Gload is better than him.

If it helps, we recieved a ton of compensation draft picks.

santo=dorf
10-13-2004, 03:16 PM
I'd just like to say that it has always been my belief that Esteban Loiza's success was the worst thing that happend to this team outside of the Black Sox Scandal... It set us back FA more than the '94 season ever could have.
Huh?

I thought it was great to have a 21 game winner start the All-Star game in OUR ballpark. But that's just me.

pinwheels3530
10-13-2004, 03:56 PM
I'd just like to say that it has always been my belief that Esteban Loiza's success was the worst thing that happend to this team outside of the Black Sox Scandal... It set us back FA more than the '94 season ever could have.

:kukoo: What the hell are you talking about?

Baby Fisk
10-13-2004, 04:03 PM
:kukoo: What the hell are you talking about?I think the implication is that once JR and the gang saw that a Cy-Young-Calibre performance could be wrung out of a spring invitee (as opposed to a megabucks FA), any impetus to bite the bullet and go after megabucks FAs went down the drain. Instead, Kenny has to find "the next Loaiza" because a huge FA signing ain't showing up anytime soon. Tekijawa can confirm or deny this mad logic.

Hangar18
10-15-2004, 10:56 AM
LOL.. they stole Harry..oye ve..


And I thought it was Baltimore that stole O-E-O Henry..?? Having a little trouble keeping the stories straight..?? :wink:
with Magglio going up north, the Chicago & National Media would praise cub fans for their originality in chanting "ohhhh eee oooooo". When I say
they "stole" Harry, I say that facetiously in that the Cubs STOLE our identity.
We chatted about this before. I have a coffee table book, and when talking about The Urinal, Mentions how Harry Caray was often seen with beverages in hand, and how he & the cubs "began the tradition" of singing "take me out to the ballgame" in the 7th inning, "a practice that is repeated to this day, at every baseball park" in the us.

Baby Fisk
10-15-2004, 11:41 AM
with Magglio going up north, the Chicago & National Media would praise cub fans for their originality in chanting "ohhhh eee oooooo". When I say
they "stole" Harry, I say that facetiously in that the Cubs STOLE our identity.
We chatted about this before. I have a coffee table book, and when talking about The Urinal, Mentions how Harry Caray was often seen with beverages in hand, and how he & the cubs "began the tradition" of singing "take me out to the ballgame" in the 7th inning, "a practice that is repeated to this day, at every baseball park" in the us.This is starting to get out of hand. We are going into hysteria over things that haven't even happened (yet). Everyone please do one of the following:

a) take a walk
b) call a family member on the phone
c) e-mail a friend you haven't talked to in a while
d) cook a meal (microwaving also counts)
e) buy something for someone you love
f) buy something for yourself
g) get a haircut
h) catch up with the new NHL season
i) disregard "h"
j) do something athletic
k) go see a movie
l) play with your pet
m) play with yourself
n) drink hard until it all goes away
o) most importantly, wait til the freakin off season actually starts before going haywire over every bit of gossip and innuendo. Once things really start to go to hell for real, then we can all wail and cry together. :cool:

SOXSINCE'70
10-15-2004, 11:47 AM
Talk is cheap.


:reinsy :selljerry

"And i'm even cheaper!!"

Iwritecode
10-15-2004, 12:11 PM
This is starting to get out of hand. We are going into hysteria over things that haven't even happened (yet). Everyone please do one of the following:

a) take a walk
b) call a family member on the phone
c) e-mail a friend you haven't talked to in a while
d) cook a meal (microwaving also counts)
e) buy something for someone you love
f) buy something for yourself
g) get a haircut
h) catch up with the new NHL season
i) disregard "h"
j) do something athletic
k) go see a movie
l) play with your pet
m) play with yourself
n) drink hard until it all goes away
o) most importantly, wait til the freakin off season actually starts before going haywire over every bit of gossip and innuendo. Once things really start to go to hell for real, then we can all wail and cry together. :cool:

POTW :smile:

Tekijawa
10-15-2004, 12:27 PM
I think the implication is that once JR and the gang saw that a Cy-Young-Calibre performance could be wrung out of a spring invitee (as opposed to a megabucks FA), any impetus to bite the bullet and go after megabucks FAs went down the drain. Instead, Kenny has to find "the next Loaiza" because a huge FA signing ain't showing up anytime soon. Tekijawa can confirm or deny this mad logic.
That's my thinking on the subject... the only way it could have gotten worse was if Scotty S. kept on pitching like he started out... We'd be combing the Garbage dumbs for washed up pitchers and have three in the starting rotation next year. While I doubt that we'll ever see a big name pitcher aquired, Schoney saved us the prospect of having James Baldwin and Todd Ritchie being brought in because they noticed a correctable flaw in their delivery and they will be battiling Jon garland for the 5th spot next year.

Jerry realized that You could catch lightning in a 39 cent bottle and then Sell it for 20 bucks a pop...

Ol' No. 2
10-15-2004, 12:29 PM
This is starting to get out of hand. We are going into hysteria over things that haven't even happened (yet). Everyone please do one of the following:

a) take a walk
b) call a family member on the phone
c) e-mail a friend you haven't talked to in a while
d) cook a meal (microwaving also counts)
e) buy something for someone you love
f) buy something for yourself
g) get a haircut
h) catch up with the new NHL season
i) disregard "h"
j) do something athletic
k) go see a movie
l) play with your pet
m) play with yourself
n) drink hard until it all goes away
o) most importantly, wait til the freakin off season actually starts before going haywire over every bit of gossip and innuendo. Once things really start to go to hell for real, then we can all wail and cry together. :cool:Amen to that.

Tekijawa
10-15-2004, 12:30 PM
... I have a coffee table book...
This is exactly why I don't read, they can say anything they want to in those book things... I only watch TV and it's a lot harder to lie there!

thepaulbowski
10-15-2004, 02:20 PM
This is starting to get out of hand.
Jeez, that is such a surprise.

soxfan26
10-15-2004, 04:53 PM
This is starting to get out of hand. We are going into hysteria over things that haven't even happened (yet). Everyone please do one of the following:

a) take a walk
b) call a family member on the phone
c) e-mail a friend you haven't talked to in a while
d) cook a meal (microwaving also counts)
e) buy something for someone you love
f) buy something for yourself
g) get a haircut
h) catch up with the new NHL season
i) disregard "h"
j) do something athletic
k) go see a movie
l) play with your pet
m) play with yourself
n) drink hard until it all goes away
o) most importantly, wait til the freakin off season actually starts before going haywire over every bit of gossip and innuendo. Once things really start to go to hell for real, then we can all wail and cry together. :cool:
I can't do it, don't you see...

:chickenlittle

RKMeibalane
10-15-2004, 05:09 PM
Door opens...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

*Breathing*

Baby Fisk
10-15-2004, 05:11 PM
Ha ha! I was going to put in a request that Lord Vader might visit upon us to restore order next! It's like he can read minds...

Hangar18
10-18-2004, 10:47 AM
well, the stats are coming in.
I see a Majority of us are saying Reinsdorfs Forced Strike of 1994 (41%)
was the Lowest Most of us Felt, with the White Flag Trade of 1997 (17%)
being a distant 2nd. 3rd place, surprise is the 2003 debacle

JoseCanseco6969
10-18-2004, 11:14 AM
Please dont say that. Its enough they stole the 7th Inning stretch,
Harry Caray, and now OO ee OO Magglioooo. Im repulsed and definitely
think I would stop watching baseball if that happened .............:angry:
I think it'd give us Sox fans a new Cub to hate since it's no fun making fun of Sosa anymore since every Cub fan will now agree with everything we say about him. Being the negative people we are, we need someone to really hate on that north side of town. Call me crazy but I think most of us Sox fans need that kind of hate, especially someone close to home from our own team like Sosa and possibly Maggs.

steff
10-18-2004, 12:12 PM
well, the stats are coming in.
I see a Majority of us are saying Reinsdorfs Forced Strike of 1994 (41%)
was the Lowest Most of us Felt, with the White Flag Trade of 1997 (17%)
being a distant 2nd. 3rd place, surprise is the 2003 debacle

Henry... still waiting in that link to where the Sox are threatning to cut payroll and lying to the fans...

LongLiveFisk
10-18-2004, 05:32 PM
I voted for '88 and "the threat to move" even though the just before and after yrs were nothing to feel good about either. I mean, 1986 was awful. LaRussa fired, Fisk to left field and a last place team. What a debacle. Embarrassing to me personally. '87 and '88 were poor seasons as well. Then '89 and here we are in last place again while the crosstown jerks are in 1st. Man, those are some bad memories. There were days when I felt like this :whiner: and then other days when I felt like this :angry: I'm sure quite a few of you who were watching Sox baseball back then like I was can relate. Man, if it wasn't for 1990 I don't know what I would have done!

LongLiveFisk
10-18-2004, 05:34 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention about 1986:

Hey, at least we had John Cangelosi! :wink:

pinwheels3530
10-18-2004, 06:52 PM
I voted for '88 and "the threat to move" even though the just before and after yrs were nothing to feel good about either. I mean, 1986 was awful. LaRussa fired, Fisk to left field and a last place team. What a debacle. Embarrassing to me personally. '87 and '88 were poor seasons as well. Then '89 and here we are in last place again while the crosstown jerks are in 1st. Man, those are some bad memories. There were days when I felt like this :whiner: and then other days when I felt like this :angry: I'm sure quite a few of you who were watching Sox baseball back then like I was can relate. Man, if it wasn't for 1990 I don't know what I would have done!

I can relate......:whiner:!

PaleHoseGeorge
10-18-2004, 08:23 PM
I was at the game the night of June 30, 1988. Driving home I was listening to the talk on WMAQ Radio (back when 670-AM was worth listening to) and they had live reports from Springfield about the close of the General Assembly's regular legislative session. As it had been for days and weeks earlier, the news was completely bleak about the Sox stadium finance deal.

I got home around 10:30-11:00 and too exhausted to stay up. I went to bed utterly convinced I had just seen my last Chicago White Sox game. Next morning...

SURPRISE!

1994 doesn't even *remotely* come close to the utter feeling of hopelessness the night of June 30, 1988. You guys must be too damned young to remember.

ewokpelts
10-18-2004, 09:10 PM
I was at the game the night of June 30, 1988. Driving home I was listening to the talk on WMAQ Radio (back when 670-AM was worth listening to) and they had live reports from Springfield about the close of the General Assembly's regular legislative session. As it had been for days and weeks earlier, the news was completely bleak about the Sox stadium finance deal.

I got home around 10:30-11:00 and too exhausted to stay up. I went to bed utterly convinced I had just seen my last Chicago White Sox game. Next morning...

SURPRISE!

1994 doesn't even *remotely* come close to the utter feeling of hopelessness the night of June 30, 1988. You guys must be too damned young to remember.how did you feel the next morning?
Gene

Ol' No. 2
10-19-2004, 09:44 AM
I was at the game the night of June 30, 1988. Driving home I was listening to the talk on WMAQ Radio (back when 670-AM was worth listening to) and they had live reports from Springfield about the close of the General Assembly's regular legislative session. As it had been for days and weeks earlier, the news was completely bleak about the Sox stadium finance deal.

I got home around 10:30-11:00 and too exhausted to stay up. I went to bed utterly convinced I had just seen my last Chicago White Sox game. Next morning...

SURPRISE!

1994 doesn't even *remotely* come close to the utter feeling of hopelessness the night of June 30, 1988. You guys must be too damned young to remember.Can I change my vote? George is right. This was the WORST.

Those of you too young to remember would get a kick out of reading the details of how this came about. Governor Jim Thompson personally kicked a lot of legislators' asses. But they were still a few votes shy as the midnight deadline approached. After midnight they would have needed a 3/5 majority and they couldn't even manage a simple majority, so it would have been effectively dead. So they did the expedient thing...they unplugged the clock. And there it stood at a few minutes before twelve for half an hour until they had twisted enough arms and promised enough goodies to get the votes to pass it. True story.

jackbrohamer
10-19-2004, 11:04 AM
I got home around 10:30-11:00 and too exhausted to stay up. I went to bed utterly convinced I had just seen my last Chicago White Sox game. Next morning...
That's exactly how I remember it. IIRC (my timing may be off), the next day the Sox beat (swept?) Detroit at home & the crowd at McCuddy's afterwards was euphoric, chanting "St. Pete's Sucks" & things I can't write here.

CubKilla
10-19-2004, 11:46 AM
Henry... still waiting in that link to where the Sox are threatning to cut payroll and lying to the fans...
I don't actually think a source is needed to prove/disprove that theory :cool:

steff
10-19-2004, 12:04 PM
I don't actually think a source is needed to prove/disprove that theory :cool:

Yea Killa.. it is. Payroll has INCREASED the past 4 years, and I guarantee it will increase again this year above what's been done already (Garcia, Cliff, Shingo, etc..). How does that support Henry's bull****? And where's the lying..? I mean c'mon... you know how I love to catch people in lies... :wink: .

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 12:23 PM
June of 1988 was very very close to being my #1 pick, with 1994
and last season. June of 1988, I remember most of my family, cousins
(my whole family are SOX fans, save for a schmuck uncle and cousin)
and I remember not Knowing how I wanted to feel. I WAS MAD AS HELL
that things deteriorated to that point. I was mad as hell at JReinsdorf,
because I remember the Chairmans opening interview (which most of you can see on the 1981 hilite film put out by the Sox) telling SOX fans how things
were gonna be different, they would put championship caliber teams on the field, they would spend the Money and dang if he hadnt done that in the
couple years he was there) Remember how you felt when the SOX signed
Carlton Fisk? I thought I was in the Twilite Zone! I remember seeing
Pudge in a Sox uniform and thinking ........this is surreal. All that
spinning thru my head, I wanted to be Mad and saying FU to the sox, go
ahead and move, and my cousins all being so mad, saying the same thing.
But deep down, I didnt want them to move. I spent the spring and summer
wondering what other teams I could cheer for. The Brewers? Tigers?
Cardinals? Royals? Red SOX? I only knew that KC and Boston
were early leaders for my loyalty (no, the cubs were Never in the equation)
because they were AL teams and the Cards only because I hated the cubs ...... That was a terrible, terrible feeling. The feeling of the unknown. SOmething that im just old enough to remember ive been THRU TWICE NOW!! the other time in 1975. A part of me hates Jerry for putting me what hes put me thru, and I realize I need to start disconnecting
myself from these bozos, or i'll go crazy. If Uncle Jerry wants to run his team into the ground. Go ahead. If Jerry wants to watch Windows Of Opportunity open for his team every 5 or 6 years, only to do nothing and Watch the WIndow Close Again, then go ahead Jerr. If he wants to confuse the fanbase, and tell us how hes RAISED payroll-by Default (despite secretly and actively trying to LOWER it) then go ahead.

Justafan
10-19-2004, 12:34 PM
June of 1988 was very very close to being my #1 pick, with 1994
and last season. June of 1988, I remember most of my family, cousins
(my whole family are SOX fans, save for a schmuck uncle and cousin)
and I remember not Knowing how I wanted to feel. I WAS MAD AS HELL
that things deteriorated to that point. I was mad as hell at JReinsdorf,
because I remember the Chairmans opening interview (which most of you can see on the 1981 hilite film put out by the Sox) telling SOX fans how things
were gonna be different, they would put championship caliber teams on the field, they would spend the Money and dang if he hadnt done that in the
couple years he was there) Remember how you felt when the SOX signed
Carlton Fisk? I thought I was in the Twilite Zone! I remember seeing
Pudge in a Sox uniform and thinking ........this is surreal. All that
spinning thru my head, I wanted to be Mad and saying FU to the sox, go
ahead and move, and my cousins all being so mad, saying the same thing.
But deep down, I didnt want them to move. I spent the spring and summer
wondering what other teams I could cheer for. The Brewers? Tigers?
Cardinals? Royals? Red SOX? I only knew that KC and Boston
were early leaders for my loyalty (no, the cubs were Never in the equation)
because they were AL teams and the Cards only because I hated the cubs ...... That was a terrible, terrible feeling. The feeling of the unknown. SOmething that im just old enough to remember ive been THRU TWICE NOW!! the other time in 1975. A part of me hates Jerry for putting me what hes put me thru, and I realize I need to start disconnecting
myself from these bozos, or i'll go crazy. If Uncle Jerry wants to run his team into the ground. Go ahead. If Jerry wants to watch Windows Of Opportunity open for his team every 5 or 6 years, only to do nothing and Watch the WIndow Close Again, then go ahead Jerr. If he wants to confuse the fanbase, and tell us how hes RAISED payroll-by Default (despite secretly and actively trying to LOWER it) then go ahead.
Dude, you are ridiculous. You will still go on the road trips, still give us Sox suck, BLA BLA BLA and still be a fan. Give it a rest, it's tiresome.

steff
10-19-2004, 12:36 PM
Henry's speaking folks....

:whoflungpoo

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 12:48 PM
Dude, you are ridiculous. You will still go on the road trips, still give us Sox suck, BLA BLA BLA and still be a fan. Give it a rest, it's tiresome.
Oh excuse me ....... You must have me confused for a north-side fan ...

Justafan
10-19-2004, 12:54 PM
Oh excuse me ....... You must have me confused for a north-side fan ...
No, I have not. Furthermore, I have agreed with you on many points regarding the media. But to continue on this path seems to be counter productive. Instead of waking up each day thinking of new ways to bash Reinsdorf, how about suggesting what you would do to make 2005 a great year. Who would you like signed? Who on the current team DO you like?

You just seem so miserable and I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

Brian26
10-19-2004, 12:56 PM
I was at the game the night of June 30, 1988. Driving home I was listening to the talk on WMAQ Radio (back when 670-AM was worth listening to) and they had live reports from Springfield about the close of the General Assembly's regular legislative session. As it had been for days and weeks earlier, the news was completely bleak about the Sox stadium finance deal.

I got home around 10:30-11:00 and too exhausted to stay up. I went to bed utterly convinced I had just seen my last Chicago White Sox game. Next morning...

SURPRISE!

1994 doesn't even *remotely* come close to the utter feeling of hopelessness the night of June 30, 1988. You guys must be too damned young to remember.

I think I was listening to AM 1000 that night. I remember Bruce Wolf called in to report the news just after midnight. I think it was the Tim and Beth Disa show. Coppock had gone off the air around 9, and I think this was after they moved Kevin Matthews to middays.

Anyone who ever says Wolf is a Cubs fan didn't hear him that night. He was pretty excited when he gave the news.

Brian26
10-19-2004, 12:58 PM
Can I change my vote? George is right. This was the WORST.

Those of you too young to remember would get a kick out of reading the details of how this came about. Governor Jim Thompson personally kicked a lot of legislators' asses. But they were still a few votes shy as the midnight deadline approached. After midnight they would have needed a 3/5 majority and they couldn't even manage a simple majority, so it would have been effectively dead. So they did the expedient thing...they unplugged the clock. And there it stood at a few minutes before twelve for half an hour until they had twisted enough arms and promised enough goodies to get the votes to pass it. True story.

We should have a bronze statue of Big Jim put on the concourse before anyone else.

zach23
10-19-2004, 01:01 PM
Oh excuse me ....... You must have me confused for a north-side fan ...

If you don't care anymore, then why the constant complaining? Whatever the Sox do shouldn't bother you anymore if you really don't care.
If something bothered me as much as the Sox seem to bother you, I would find something better to do with my time that made me happy.

Flight #24
10-19-2004, 01:01 PM
If he wants to confuse the fanbase, and tell us how hes RAISED payroll-by Default (despite secretly and actively trying to LOWER it) then go ahead.
Huh? Resigning Garcia doesn't count? Resigning your own FAs(or young players) to decent contracts doesn't count? Trading for a player making a sizeable long-term salary doesn't count?

Great googlie-mooglie, for a guy trying so secretly and actively to lower payroll, his team sure does make a lot of moves that end up raising it. He must be the most incompetent payroll-lowerer in history!

jabrch
10-19-2004, 01:23 PM
Huh? Resigning Garcia doesn't count? Resigning your own FAs(or young players) to decent contracts doesn't count? Trading for a player making a sizeable long-term salary doesn't count?

Great googlie-mooglie, for a guy trying so secretly and actively to lower payroll, his team sure does make a lot of moves that end up raising it. He must be the most incompetent payroll-lowerer in history!

JR is currently a 4-time consecutive failure at reducing his payroll. He can't even do that right.

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 02:00 PM
If you don't care anymore, then why the constant complaining? Whatever the Sox do shouldn't bother you anymore if you really don't care.
If something bothered me as much as the Sox seem to bother you, I would find something better to do with my time that made me happy.
Pardon me ........constant complaining is from 22 years of failure and just plain NOT TRYING. Obviously....... your OK with it. and thats Cool.
IM NOT

steff
10-19-2004, 02:12 PM
Pardon me ........constant complaining is from 22 years of failure and just plain NOT TRYING. Obviously....... your OK with it. and thats Cool.
IM NOT

Constant complaining is from lack of a life.. IMO. :rolleyes:

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 02:15 PM
Constant complaining is from lack of a life.. IMO. :rolleyes:....then what would Acceptance of Failure be considered? :angry:

jabrch
10-19-2004, 02:18 PM
22 years of failure and just plain NOT TRYING.
right...

sometimes it MAKES no sense when you START ranting about the team. Do you REALLY think that ownership AND management are NOT TRYING? You can't REALLY be so blinded BY your BITTER and personal HATRED. You must JUST be a CHRONIC exaggerator. Are you the GUY at the BAR who finishes THE NIGHT saying he JUST finished his 24th BEER, while nobody ever saw him DRINKING much? Are you the GUY who SAYS it is BOILING outside when it is 73 degrees? Are you the one who says he SAW Borchard hit a ball 920 FEET - when we all know it WENT 503? Is it EXAGGERATION - or is it just BITTER HATRED? I can't tell. EITHER WAY - it seems to LACK significant GROUNDING in REALITY.

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 02:35 PM
[QUOTE=jabrch]right...

Do you REALLY think that ownership AND management are NOT TRYING? .....


or is it just BITTER HATRED? QUOTE]

A: Yes. This organization is ok to just ...get ....by.
B: Yes. Has become this with every passing year, with every phase
of "rebuilding" and "cutting payroll" and going with cheaper players from
year to year. Its ridiculous. Weve had windows of opportunity Open
then slam shut a few times now ...... With JR at the helm ..
we wont win. That being said, lets fix the stadium up, and put some
places for people to eat around the park

So Jabrch .....YOU really think this team is TRYING to win? From
Marketing to Free Agent Signings, to Off Field strategy, to Public Relations ..
you think im off the deep end in my assumptions? I didnt see
all of the championships weve won ........

jabrch
10-19-2004, 02:42 PM
"cutting payroll" and going with cheaper players from
year to year. Its ridiculous.
Even though payroll has gone up 4 years in a row?

Justafan
10-19-2004, 02:47 PM
Like I said, how would YOU fix the team, Hangar?

jabrch
10-19-2004, 02:48 PM
So Jabrch .....YOU really think this team is TRYING to win? From
Marketing to Free Agent Signings, to Off Field strategy, to Public Relations ..
Yes - within the constraints of our team's revenue and the ownership's (reasonable) requirement that they break even or maintain a small shareholder return, we have made efforts to compete. If management wasn't trying to compete, the team would have done much worse in the past 5-10 years.

you think im off the deep end in my assumptions? I didnt see
all of the championships weve won ........
So Championships are the measurement of EFFORT? So you think outcomes are, in sports, directly related to inputs? If we just try a bit harder, we'd win a championship?

http://baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/

That does not look like the results of a team that is NOT TRYING. Does it?

Flight #24
10-19-2004, 02:48 PM
Even though payroll has gone up 4 years in a row?
C'mon jabrch, you can't measure the change in payroll by simply comparing the payroll expense in one year to another.....If the team doesn't go out and sing multiple bigname free agents, then it's obvious that they're actually CUTTING payroll despite what "mathematics" might tell you!

If you can't understand this simple concept, may I recommend :gulp:

jabrch
10-19-2004, 02:50 PM
C'mon jabrch, you can't measure the change in payroll by simply comparing the payroll expense in one year to another.....If the team doesn't go out and sing multiple bigname free agents, then it's obvious that they're actually CUTTING payroll despite what "mathematics" might tell you!

If you can't understand this simple concept, may I recommend :gulp:
Don't forget that even when they do go out and sign a big name FA, it doesn't count since they are just doing that for some alterior motive.

Ol' No. 2
10-19-2004, 03:03 PM
C'mon jabrch, you can't measure the change in payroll by simply comparing the payroll expense in one year to another.....If the team doesn't go out and sing multiple bigname free agents, then it's obvious that they're actually CUTTING payroll despite what "mathematics" might tell you!

If you can't understand this simple concept, may I recommend :gulp:Makes sense to me. But I don't think it's tea you've been drinking.
http://www.idegolibido.com/magnets/001-0035---mad-hatter-tea-p.jpg

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 03:08 PM
Like I said, how would YOU fix the team, Hangar?
Fair enough, good question Justafan. Its easy to complain, just like its
easy to name call, but what would I do?

1st. Hire EXTRA people in our Marketing Dept. 14 cub related books is
ridiculous. The SOX name would be AGRESSIVELY marketed in Chicago and
Beyond. Former Players would be making appearances everywhere in Chicago,
just to keep the SOX name out there. Just getting people to talk about the SOX would be a HUMONGOUS step ........ in curtailing and stopping peoples notions that the SOX, their fans, and the ballpark is a dirty neighborhood full of criminals and miscreants. I take that personally (some of you dont care, and thats cool. I do. so dont bust me out for caring and complaining)

2nd. Set a 5 Year Plan and Budget Accordingly (to operate at barely a profit) to Win A Championship. Players will be Kept and if not, Replaced with SIMILAR LEVEL players. No more Letting Flash Gordons go and replacing with Mike Jacksons. Unacceptable. For 5 years, we WONT worry about turning a "profit". By doing this, we will REGAIN and REENERGIZE a Fanbase long Dormant that we (Sox Mgmt) ourselves thru inattention, inaction and plain foolishness, simply let go by the wayside.

3rd. Apologize to the TRULY greatest fanbase in sports, the Chicago White Sox Fans. Fans that, without Fanfare, without Blatant Propogandistic Media Coverage, like an underground movement, go to the games, Travel to other AL cities to cheer them on, always ignored and treated like they arent there, with Full page ads, telling them they ARE the best fans. They pay Attention. They know the score. They Dont (well most of us anyway) accept failure, and neither will we any Longer. ON buses, trains, newspapers. Apologize for our foolishness, and please come back, we will try this time, and its NOT YOUR FAULT.

That .......... would win me over.

Justafan
10-19-2004, 03:25 PM
Fair enough, good question Justafan. Its easy to complain, just like its
easy to name call, but what would I do?

1st. Hire EXTRA people in our Marketing Dept. 14 cub related books is
ridiculous. The SOX name would be AGRESSIVELY marketed in Chicago and
Beyond. Former Players would be making appearances everywhere in Chicago,
just to keep the SOX name out there. Just getting people to talk about the SOX would be a HUMONGOUS step ........ in curtailing and stopping peoples notions that the SOX, their fans, and the ballpark is a dirty neighborhood full of criminals and miscreants. I take that personally (some of you dont care, and thats cool. I do. so dont bust me out for caring and complaining)

2nd. Set a 5 Year Plan and Budget Accordingly (to operate at barely a profit) to Win A Championship. Players will be Kept and if not, Replaced with SIMILAR LEVEL players. No more Letting Flash Gordons go and replacing with Mike Jacksons. Unacceptable. For 5 years, we WONT worry about turning a "profit". By doing this, we will REGAIN and REENERGIZE a Fanbase long Dormant that we (Sox Mgmt) ourselves thru inattention, inaction and plain foolishness, simply let go by the wayside.

3rd. Apologize to the TRULY greatest fanbase in sports, the Chicago White Sox Fans. Fans that, without Fanfare, without Blatant Propogandistic Media Coverage, like an underground movement, go to the games, Travel to other AL cities to cheer them on, always ignored and treated like they arent there, with Full page ads, telling them they ARE the best fans. They pay Attention. They know the score. They Dont (well most of us anyway) accept failure, and neither will we any Longer. ON buses, trains, newspapers. Apologize for our foolishness, and please come back, we will try this time, and its NOT YOUR FAULT.

That .......... would win me over.
Ok, but you are then WILLING to ACCEPT a 5 year rebuilding plan? If that is the case, you then have to be ULTRA patient and can't complain if the Sox don't win in the beginning of this plan, correct?

Flight #24
10-19-2004, 03:25 PM
2nd. Set a 5 Year Plan and Budget Accordingly (to operate at barely a profit) to Win A Championship. Players will be Kept and if not, Replaced with SIMILAR LEVEL players. No more Letting Flash Gordons go and replacing with Mike Jacksons. Unacceptable. For 5 years, we WONT worry about turning a "profit". By doing this, we will REGAIN and REENERGIZE a Fanbase long Dormant that we (Sox Mgmt) ourselves thru inattention, inaction and plain foolishness, simply let go by the wayside.


Good stuff. Especially the marketing piece. Great idea involving former players more.

However, what would you do if due to year over year raises to players, you can't replace a Flash Gordon with a similar player AND operate at "barely a profit"? Remember, that when the budget was at 63mil this year, they were forced to do just that (although they then raised the payroll higher during the season).

jabrch
10-19-2004, 03:27 PM
Ok, but you are then WILLING to ACCEPT a 5 year rebuilding plan? If that is the case, you then have to be ULTRA patient and can't complain if the Sox don't win in the beginning of this plan, correct?

5 years of last place finishes. 5 years of rebuilding. Let's see people here accept THAT.

LongLiveFisk
10-19-2004, 03:28 PM
Is it safe to say....

:hijacked: ?

Flight #24
10-19-2004, 03:29 PM
5 years of last place finishes. 5 years of rebuilding. Let's see people here accept THAT.
Just to be clear on what jabrch is saying: rebuilding does NOT mean being competitive or close to it, or being above .500. Rebuilding means being terrible for a few years, getting the high picks, and living with the results for a while, but then theoretically, having young, cheap talent as a core to fill in with more expensive FAs.

In other words, NOT what has been happening the past 4 years, something much worse from a W/L perspective.

OEO Magglio
10-19-2004, 03:30 PM
Steff, my sources are:

1: The numerous media articles reporting pessimistically the SOX NOT
going after key free agents
2: Past Jerry Reinsdorf History
You of all people are going to listen to the media now?? I'm actually pretty optimisic about next year, and I have a feeling kenny is going to make this team a lot better this offseason, jmo.

Hangar18
10-19-2004, 03:59 PM
Good stuff. Especially the marketing piece. Great idea involving former players more.

However, what would you do if due to year over year raises to players, you can't replace a Flash Gordon with a similar player AND operate at "barely a profit"? Remember, that when the budget was at 63mil this year, they were forced to do just that (although they then raised the payroll higher during the season).
Another Good Question. The Payroll will be scheduled so as to EXPECT
that certain players salaries will RISE, its the cost of doing business. Guys Like JERRY want to sneak-out-the-back-door when it comes time to pay for Dinner,
but if your budget accordingly, this wont be a problem. There will also be
a 2 yr span, where the Budget will/can be allowed to Operate at a DEFICIT.
That, Id leave up to the GM. This should be used to "get us over the top".
As I said, if the sox are making moves and making noise, the FANS will show up, making the idea of "going broke" not happen.

The 2nd Question, calling for a 5 yr plan, and asking would we be patient?
We will, if we know that in years 4 and 5, the team begins to SPEND to fill the holes that the first 3 years help Determine (filling holes .....where have I heard that before?) This is how Teams get Good. Filling Your Holes
is how Good Teams Stay Good. You get your core players, then supplement them with complementary and Good Players. YOu dont go Cheap & Unproven and Expect to win. When your 2 or 3 players short,
you dont weaken yourselves so that now your 5 and 6 players short.
Jerry keeps rolling the dice with that kind of thinking, and so far, has come up SnakeEyes every time.

steff
10-19-2004, 04:07 PM
....then what would Acceptance of Failure be considered? :angry:

Beats me. I don't accept failure in MY life.. the only life I have control over.

jackbrohamer
10-19-2004, 04:27 PM
We should have a bronze statue of Big Jim put on the concourse before anyone else.
Well, he has had those 4 permanent box seats since the Cell opened, 2 in the first row by the Sox on-deck circle, 2 in the next row. Kinda looks like he's a statue on rare occasions when he sits in them.