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LongDistanceFan
10-08-2001, 01:17 PM
is at an end, and i have met new friends........... for good or bad, i think we, the sox, are really close.

obviously some changes needs to be done, some players needs to go and some to come in, this off-season on this board should be lively........

GASHWOUND
10-08-2001, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
is at an end, and i have met new friends........... for good or bad, i think we, the sox, are really close.

obviously some changes needs to be done, some players needs to go and some to come in, this off-season on this board should be lively........

Uhhh, huh? :)

chisoxt
10-08-2001, 05:17 PM
Not to be the fly in the ointment, but given the organizations fiscal problems and it tendancy to produce a lot of mediocre , but young pitchers and few good positional players, I wonder if we ever will be close.

Sadly, I think that the Cubs may be closer than we are.

GASHWOUND
10-08-2001, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
Not to be the fly in the ointment, but given the organizations fiscal problems and it tendancy to produce a lot of mediocre , but young pitchers and few good positional players, I wonder if we ever will be close.

Sadly, I think that the Cubs may be closer than we are.

Why don't you elaborate on that "claim" that the flubs may be closer than we are. Alot of "mediocre" pitchers. A "few" good postion players?

Nice optimism.

doublem23
10-08-2001, 07:16 PM
I dunno.... This team is getting close.... True, we're not what one would call extremely deep at the position spots, but in terms of pitching, I think we're getting very close to being a Top 5 team in baseball.... Right now, we're not in the upper echelon of baseball teams, but i think we're the top team in our class.

charlie browned
10-08-2001, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I dunno.... This team is getting close.... True, we're not what one would call extremely deep at the position spots, but in terms of pitching, I think we're getting very close to being a Top 5 team in baseball.... Right now, we're not in the upper echelon of baseball teams, but i think we're the top team in our class.

That's grasping-at-straws optimism, if I ever saw it. The freakin' TWINS blew us away this year...

We're the top team in Losers' class....to move up, we need to purge the team of losers: Kip Wells--no killer instinct, no clue; Royce Clayton--in it for Royce and Royce alone; Josh Paul--no arm, little bat, (but OK pinch runner); Bobby Howry--his surgically repaired arm has lost its tendon snappiness--his punch-out pitch has become a garden variety gopher ball (but he hasn't realized it yet); Keith Foulke--has blown too many big games in the last two years; Carlos Lee--unfailingly fooled by breaking balls in the dirt in clutch situations; Frank Thomas---nothin', nadda, in clutch, playoff situations...and Jerry Manuel--nice guy, but not the manager of a world champion..too many brain cramps in tight games, which ultimately result in Sox losses.

Winners: Valentin, Rowand, Buerhle, Lowe, Ordonez, Glover, Singleton, Konerko, Perry (but he's gone..), Joe Nossek, Dan Evans (oops--the Dodgers just made him their V.P. and General Manager after Reinsdorf blew him and his 19 years of Sox service off..)

Spiff
10-08-2001, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned


That's grasping-at-straws optimism, if I ever saw it. The freakin' TWINS blew us away this year...

We're the top team in Losers' class....to move up, we need to purge the team of losers: Kip Wells--no killer instinct, no clue; Royce Clayton--in it for Royce and Royce alone; Josh Paul--no arm, little bat, (but OK pinch runner); Bobby Howry--his surgically repaired arm has lost its tendon snappiness--his punch-out pitch has become a garden variety gopher ball (but he hasn't realized it yet); Keith Foulke--has blown too many big games in the last two years; Carlos Lee--unfailingly fooled by breaking balls in the dirt in clutch situations; Frank Thomas---nothin', nadda, in clutch, playoff situations...and Jerry Manuel--nice guy, but not the manager of a world champion..too many brain cramps in tight games, which ultimately result in Sox losses.

Winners: Valentin, Rowand, Buerhle, Lowe, Ordonez, Glover, Singleton, Konerko, Perry (but he's gone..), Joe Nossek, Dan Evans (oops--the Dodgers just made him their V.P. and General Manager after Reinsdorf blew him and his 19 years of Sox service off..)

The Twins finished two games better- that's not blowing us away. We were missing half the damn team, and they had everyone.

And I'm getting real sick of people trashing Keith Foulke. He's a winner, he was 3rd in the league in saves on a .500 team. I'd really like to see who you think would be better, stick them in the big games and see what they do.

Daver
10-08-2001, 08:18 PM
I have no problem with trading Keith Foulke.

oldcomiskey
10-08-2001, 08:27 PM
charlie who do you think is gonna replace keith--let alone Hurt

duke of dorwood
10-08-2001, 08:28 PM
I am afraid Foulke will be traded in a money move. This regime has traded a top flight closer before. He'll be traded for offense.

CLR01
10-08-2001, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
this off-season on this board should be lively........

Yes, the offseason will be fun. Lots of disagreements on who we should pick up, trade etc. I assume everyone is current on thier hollywood DSL. We also have George Knue's Chicago survivor to look forward to. (Hi George, you do plan on putting sox players in it again don't you?)


"Remember me guys?"
:messica

doublem23
10-08-2001, 08:31 PM
Here's how I see the American League in 2001:

UPPER CLASS
1. Seattle
2. Oakland
3. New York

MIDDLE CLASS
4. Cleveland
5. WHITE SOX
6. Boston
7. Anahiem
8. Minnesota
9. Toronto

LOWER CLASS
10. Texas
11. Detroit
12. Baltimore
13. Kansas City
14. Tampa Bay

Daver
10-08-2001, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I am afraid Foulke will be traded in a money move. This regime has traded a top flight closer before. He'll be traded for offense.

He will be traded for defense.Package Keith and Ray for a good SS,and move Jose to second base.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Daver
10-08-2001, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
charlie who do you think is gonna replace keith--let alone Hurt

Frank is a moot point,he has a no trade clause and is a 5 and 10 guy to boot.Frank is staying here.

CLR01
10-08-2001, 09:07 PM
I forgot to mention the there will be many preachings trying to convert people to Singletonism. Did i mention that the most loyal members have their choice of any woman they want, and guys like Kempers and JM are stuck with women like Barbra and Laura Bush, Elizabeth Dole and Royce's leftovers.

Soxheads
10-08-2001, 09:10 PM
what is this chicago survivor

Daver
10-08-2001, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by CLR01
I forgot to mention the there will be many preachings trying to convert people to Singletonism. Did i mention that the most loyal members have their choice of any woman they want, and guys like Kempers and JM are stuck with women like Barbra and Laura Bush, Elizabeth Dole and Royce's leftovers.

I think I will stick with Bhuddism,thanx anyway.

charlie browned
10-08-2001, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by daver


Frank is a moot point,he has a no trade clause and is a 5 and 10 guy to boot.Frank is staying here.

that's one of the problems with the team going into next year--big salary tied up in an aging, heavy, injury-prone, immobile former star on the decline.

I think Foulke has seen his best years, and should be unloaded before it becomes obvious to the league. I don't know who KW should get for closer, but then I don't get paid the big bucks...there are lots of live arms out there--they just seem to tear themselves apart in the White Sox organization...

Daver
10-08-2001, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned


that's one of the problems with the team going into next year--big salary tied up in an aging, heavy, injury-prone, immobile former star on the decline.

I think Foulke has seen his best years, and should be unloaded before it becomes obvious to the league. I don't know who KW should get for closer, but then I don't get paid the big bucks...there are lots of live arms out there--they just seem to tear themselves apart in the White Sox organization...

Frank's contract is a bargain as the economics of baseball go right now,and by the numbers he is still the best all around hitter in the game,I will make you look up the numbers yourself,cause I am too lazy to do it for you.

charlie browned
10-08-2001, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


The Twins finished two games better- that's not blowing us away.

Our record vs. the Twins this year: 5-14

Not blowing us away? More than any other team, they cost us the division championship (and take away 5 Jerry Manuel brain cramps, and two or three Foulke/Howry/Embree gopher balls, and we're still playing...)

Spiff
10-08-2001, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned


Our record vs. the Twins this year: 5-14

Not blowing us away? More than any other team, they cost us the division championship (and take away 5 Jerry Manuel brain cramps, and two or three Foulke/Howry/Embree gopher balls, and we're still playing...)

I still don't think that's blowing us away. Timing was everything.

Even if we were somehow still playing right now, how far do you think we would get.

GASHWOUND
10-08-2001, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned


that's one of the problems with the team going into next year--big salary tied up in an aging, heavy, injury-prone, immobile former star on the decline.

I think Foulke has seen his best years, and should be unloaded before it becomes obvious to the league. I don't know who KW should get for closer, but then I don't get paid the big bucks...there are lots of live arms out there--they just seem to tear themselves apart in the White Sox organization...


What is up with all the Keith Foulke bashing. Who's a better closer than Foulkey besides Rivera? His #'s the last 2 years has proven he's a top of the line closer. "I think Foulke has seen his best years." ***! And how did you come up with that well thought out conclusion? The fact that he's has improved on his #'s from last year? The fact he has 43 saves on a team that was 4 games over. That makes no sense at all and how ou came up with that is beyond me. Give me a break.
And lets give Frank one more year. Everybody was saying he was done before 2000 and look what he did. He put up career #'s And you're already gving up on him. This is unbelievable what I'm hearing.

People what to get rid of Foulke and the next thing out of their mouths is, "Uhh, I don't know who's gonna be our closer though." Like we're replacing a non-important position or something.
Hello! A top of the line closer doesn't come along everyday and we obviously do not have anyone waiting in the wings to just dump Foulke. Wright? *** has he shown that he can be better than Kieth. The only option we got who has had closer experience is Howry. And I know you guys don't what Howry closing games.
And people are now gonna say, "well, I would like to keep Foulke, but he's gonna be asking for to much money." Well, why would he be asking for more money? Cause he's one of the best closers around and he deserves it.

Its gonna be like a merry-go-round. What if the next closer we get is just as good as foulke and he wants a raise. Are we gonna have to trade him to cause we're gonna find the one fault he has and bag on him. Then this same argument will ensue and we're gonna have to trade him cause we can't afford him.

why is it that we can't afford anybody on this club? It can't be the empty seats at Comiskey..Or can it....

charlie browned
10-08-2001, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by daver


Frank's contract is a bargain as the economics of baseball go right now,and by the numbers he is still the best all around hitter in the game,I will make you look up the numbers yourself,cause I am too lazy to do it for you.

I looked up the numbers (thanks for MAKING me)-Frank's career stats still have Barry Bonds beat out for career average, OBA, and he's a tad behind in slugging percentage (.577 vs .585--even after Bonds all-time slugging year this year)...but--Larry Walker's stats are almost identical in all categories (except OBA), as are Manny Ramirez's, and Edgar Martinez's--all four are a wash, IMO.

But look at Todd Helton-- .622 lifetime slugging percentage, .334 lifetime BA--Williams-like numbers, blows away even A-Rod's career numbers so far... although he's still relatively early in his career....

I would say Helton is THE bargain right now, given the fact he's only 28, etc....

charlie browned
10-08-2001, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


I still don't think that's blowing us away. Timing was everything.

Even if we were somehow still playing right now, how far do you think we would get.

I give up. No matter what I say, it's turned around. It must be that little trick of the mind Sox fans learn after a while...everything's OK, somehow, no matter how bad the team is or what disaster befalls them.

doublem23
10-08-2001, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
I would say Helton is THE bargain right now, given the fact he's only 28, etc....

But does that make Frank less of a bargain? He's still one of the best hitters in baseball, just pray that he's healthy.

FarWestChicago
10-08-2001, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned
But look at Todd Helton-- .622 lifetime slugging percentage, .334 lifetime BA--Williams-like numbers, blows away even A-Rod's career numbers so far... although he's still relatively early in his career....

I would say Helton is THE bargain right now, given the fact he's only 28, etc.... How do his non-Coors numbers look? That is what he is really like. That would be interesting to look at.

charlie browned
10-08-2001, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND



***! And how did you come up with that well thought out conclusion? ...That makes no sense at all and how ou came up with that is beyond me. Give me a break.

Very tactfully put, Gashwound. Please don't ever consider the Foreign Service as a career, though...others might not see your cries for attention for what they are...

Jerry_Manuel
10-08-2001, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
what is this chicago survivor


After the show "Survivor" caught on big chicagosports.com had a "Chicago Survivor" which had the star players of the Chicago teams on it. Thomas, Wells, Amonte, Brand, Wood, Sosa, and U-Boat. We "rigged" it to where Boomer and Frank were the last 2 left. They at CS.com got very mad with us that they moved the contest off the front page of their site to a very small area of the site. Basically since no Cub players won they took their ball and went home. The man in the photo below is George Knue the editor of CS.com. He wrote this letter that they put on the front page where he called us "technogeeks" for "rigging" his contest.

:knue
Yeah that's right I did.

Spiff
10-08-2001, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by charlie browned


I give up. No matter what I say, it's turned around. It must be that little trick of the mind Sox fans learn after a while...everything's OK, somehow, no matter how bad the team is or what disaster befalls them.

I don't see what I turned around.

And I wouldn't say it's shiny happy people around here but a little optimism never hurt anyone.

charlie browned
10-08-2001, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


And I wouldn't say it's shiny happy people around here but a little optimism never hurt anyone.

WhiteSox00 previously said: Even if we were somehow still playing right now, how far do you think we would get.

?????

GASHWOUND
10-08-2001, 11:03 PM
#1 SAVES
M.Rivera
Innings-80.2
Hits-61
BB-12
SO-83
SAVES-50
Blown saves-7
OPP-.209
ERA-2.34

#2 Saves
Kazuhiro
Innings-66.2
hits-48
BB-11
SO-62
Saves-45
Blown saves-7
OPP-.195
ERA-3.24

#3 Saves
Foulke
Innings-81
Hits-57
BB-22
SO-75
SAVES-42
Blown saves-3
OPP-.199
ERA-2.33


Foulke converted 42 of his 45 saves and people want to bag on him cause one of those saves was against the Twins. He was almost perfect. He's durable. Who's better? He deserves what he gets. We will not find anyone better.

Spiff
10-09-2001, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by charlie browned


WhiteSox00 previously said: Even if we were somehow still playing right now, how far do you think we would get.

?????

That's not pessimism, that's realism.

GASHWOUND
10-09-2001, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by charlie browned


Very tactfully put, Gashwound. Please don't ever consider the Foreign Service as a career, though...others might not see your cries for attention for what they are...

I think Foulke has seen his best years, and should be unloaded before it becomes obvious to the league.

Yes, very tactful for you to take a couple sentences out of order of a 3 paragraph post I did. Very tactful

The quote above is yours. You can't just come out and make that claim without any explanation. BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS. And for the other nonsense you said. "Foreign Service as a career?" Well pardon me if my language was not to your par. Is this better. "What in the world! How do you come up with that brilliant conclusion? That made perfect sense and how you came up with that conclusion should be praised with a standing ovation and a here...here."

Then you made this insightful comment that really made me angry.
though...others might not see your cries for attention for what they are...

Exactly what does that mean? Cries for attention? Huh? I apologize, I didn't know I couldn't be passionate and express my feelings in the mannor I chose and the way I wanted to express them. Why being passionate on a subject has ANYTHING to do with "cries for attention" as you so elegantly put it. How ridicules.

Yet again, you are the one who pulled out a couple of sentences out of context of a 3 paragragh post I did. Very mature on your part.

GASHWOUND
10-09-2001, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
How do his non-Coors numbers look? That is what he is really like. That would be interesting to look at.

Before I have to go to work, here's the stats of Todd Helton Home and away

Homes games-81
Avg-.384
HR-27
Hits-114
OBP-.478
SLG-.774

Road games-78
Avg-.286
HR-22
Hits-83
OBP-.383
SLG-.593

If everybody can hit at Coors. But I still think he's a natural talent and I'll take him on my team anyday.

Got to go :)

LongDistanceFan
10-09-2001, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND

and you don't think coors field in not a factor in his batting?

GASHWOUND
10-09-2001, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
and you don't think coors field in not a factor in his batting?

Absolutely I do, thats obvious. But don't you think he can put up better #'s than konerko at first? If he didn't play at Coors his #'s WOULD NOT be that impressive, true. I still think he can hit over 30 hr's and hit .300. Don't you?
There's something I like about his batting stance. His stroke his Sweet. :)

Daver
10-09-2001, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
How do his non-Coors numbers look? That is what he is really like. That would be interesting to look at.

I guess were still waiting on an answer to that.

Jerry_Manuel
10-09-2001, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by daver
I guess were still waiting on an answer to that.

Daver his numbers are posted in this thread.
See post number 34.

Daver
10-09-2001, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Daver his numbers are posted in this thread.
See post number 34.

Thanx Jerry I missed that one.

Jerry_Manuel
10-09-2001, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by daver
Thanx Jerry I missed that one.

No problem.

:moron
Perhaps you should go hunting for glasses instead of animals.

Daver
10-09-2001, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


No problem.

:moron
Perhaps you should go hunting for glasses instead of animals.

I wear glasses,I sometimes have a problem with my Evelynn Wood speed reading training going out on me.

LongDistanceFan
10-09-2001, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


Absolutely I do, thats obvious. But don't you think he can put up better #'s than konerko at first? If he didn't play at Coors his #'s WOULD NOT be that impressive, true. I still think he can hit over 30 hr's and hit .300. Don't you?
There's something I like about his batting stance. His stroke his Sweet. and why would they want to trade him to us? how old is paulie?

LongDistanceFan
10-09-2001, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


No problem.

:moron
Perhaps you should go hunting for glasses instead of animals. oh how i hate this guy pict, can't we get one with a bulls-eye on it or something.........

Daver
10-09-2001, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
oh how i hate this guy pict, can't we get one with a bulls-eye on it or something.........

We can't do that,I might shoot my computer.

FarWestChicago
10-09-2001, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by daver


We can't do that,I might shoot my computer. Well, you really could use a new monitor. :)

LongDistanceFan
10-09-2001, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by daver


We can't do that,I might shoot my computer. lmao.... now that is funny.

Daver
10-09-2001, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Well, you really could use a new monitor.

What's wrong with my 12 inch 1989 Samsung monitor?

:)

Jerry_Manuel
10-09-2001, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by daver
What's wrong with my 12 inch 1989 Samsung monitor?


Besides for the fact that it is 5 years older then me nothing.

Jerry_Manuel
10-09-2001, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
oh how i hate this guy pict, can't we get one with a bulls-eye on it or something.........

There is not many pictures of him on the net. I agree the photo we have is not that good since Jay is blue in the photo.

LongDistanceFan
10-09-2001, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


There is not many pictures of him on the net. I agree the photo we have is not that good since Jay is blue in the photo. like any other photo will be good....... i hate him. rrrr

FarWestChicago
10-09-2001, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Besides for the fact that it is 5 years older then me nothing. Wow Jer, you're pretty mature for a 7 year old. :)

FarWestChicago
10-09-2001, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


There is not many pictures of him on the net. I agree the photo we have is not that good since Jay is blue in the photo. I like the photo. I think Jay being Fubbie blue is appropriate.

Jerry_Manuel
10-09-2001, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Wow Jer, you're pretty mature for a 7 year old.

Thanks West.

Jerry_Manuel
10-09-2001, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I like the photo. I think Jay being Fubbie blue is appropriate.

Yes it is appropriate but it is weird seeing a person's skin blue.

LongDistanceFan
10-09-2001, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Thanks West. i was afraid of saying anything for fear you will get your daddy after me. :)

Jerry_Manuel
10-09-2001, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
i was afraid of saying anything for fear you will get your daddy after me. :)

No worries my parents are Cub fans.

LongDistanceFan
10-09-2001, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


No worries my parents are Cub fans. :)

GASHWOUND
10-09-2001, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
and why would they want to trade him to us? how old is paulie?

This is all hypothetical mumbo jumbo. I was just saying that I think Helton is a better hitter than Pauly. Even though Pauly is my favorite player on the Sox. Colorado is not trading Helton for anything. They gave him that huge contract anyway. (whoa, Edmonds with a great catch!) Uh, sorry, sidetracked there for a sec.

Pauly is 25 I think. Even though he looks like he's in his 40's. :)

RichieRichAllen
10-09-2001, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
oh how i hate this guy pict, can't we get one with a bulls-eye on it or something.........

There's something about this pic that makes me hungry.

I know....it must be the kruller that's draping his forehead. Mmmmmmmm.

Daver
10-09-2001, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by RichieRichAllen


There's something about this pic that makes me hungry.

I know....it must be the kruller that's draping his forehead. Mmmmmmmm.

Thats Fluffy the cat,Fluffy actually writes most of Jay's columns.

voodoochile
10-09-2001, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by daver


Thats Fluffy the cat,Fluffy actually writes most of Jay's columns.

That's not true... fluffy only writes the ones that are readable and well thought out... in other words once a month...

FarWestChicago
10-09-2001, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


That's not true... fluffy only writes the ones that are readable and well thought out... in other words once a month... Yeah, those Persians are pretty smart cats. :)