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View Full Version : Twins media previews the White Sox for next year...


PavanoBeltran'05
10-12-2004, 07:23 AM
Extremely insightful. We're not making any moves this offseason. None. Idiots.
There's some truth here about the farm system, but please....

"Chicago White Sox

The Sox could lose their best and most professional player, right fielder Magglio Ordonez, this winter in free agency. If they do, their sniping at the Twins could become even more comical, as the Sox fade to the bottom of the division.

General Manager Kenny Williams has weakened his farm system by making trades aimed at overtaking the Twins. He still has two front-line starters in Freddy Garcia and Mark Buehrle, but neither made much of a difference this year. Jon Garland is solid, but the end of the rotation, the bullpen, the fielding and the bottom of the batting order are concerns for a team that continues to prove it can't slug its way to the playoffs.

The best hope for the rest of the division is that the Twins will finally make budget cuts that hurt their on-field product.

That may take a few years"

Soxzilla
10-12-2004, 07:31 AM
They are grasping at straws because they know they are gonna finish 4th next year.

And their days of making it to the playoffs consecutively are over...and they won just as much as....THE SOX!:bandance:

34 Inch Stick
10-12-2004, 07:34 AM
Jon Garland is solid,

"
Did you need to read any further?

PavanoBeltran'05
10-12-2004, 07:40 AM
Yeah...it also goes further into saying that Radke, Koskie, Guzman, Jacque Jones, and Rincon may also be gone, due to the fact that Santana's eligible for arbitration this year and will command 5-6 times what he's making this year. He's making 1.6, and he can't make less than 9. That's going to cramp the Twins.

hold2dibber
10-12-2004, 07:42 AM
They are grasping at straws because they know they are gonna finish 4th next year.

And their days of making it to the playoffs consecutively are over...and they won just as much as....THE SOX!:bandance:
You've been drinking too much of the same Kool-Aid Ray Durham, Billy Koch, et al. have been drinking. They'll still have the best pitcher in the AL in Santana. I'd be awfully surprised if they didn't retain Radke, who will likely give them a home-town discount. They still have Nathan, Hunter, Stewart, Jones, Mourneau, Maurer, Cuddyer, LeCroy, Romero, Ford. They remain the favorites in the division until someone proves otherwise. It's not even close.

PavanoBeltran'05
10-12-2004, 07:52 AM
As far as the Twins go, they're set to use 54 million at the most in salary.

Joe Nathan, Shannon Stewart, Johan Santana's projected new salary, Joe Mays, and Torii Hunter take up most of it.

So, they say Kubel for Jones, Cuddyer for Rivas, who knows for Guzman or Koskie, Morneau at first, and cross your fingers for Radke.

If JR doesn't see a chance to spend some cash and strangle these chumps, I think he needs to take a scalpel, take out his eyes, and trade 'em in.

PavanoBeltran'05
10-12-2004, 07:56 AM
More interesting news:
"Santana was miffed last year when the Twins made him a low contract offer because he had little starting experience. Now, coming off a 20-6 season, Santana will get a raise of several million dollars through arbitration. He made $1.6 million this season.

"I was hoping it would happen last year," Santana said of the prospect of a long-term deal. "Now, we are getting to a point where things have changed. I would love to stay here as along as I could, and even for my whole career, but this is a business, and you can see how things can happen to anybody. You have to do the right thing."

They better sign that guy to a HEALTHY extension.

soxtalker
10-12-2004, 08:24 AM
Looks like a pretty reasonable evaluation of the Sox. They don't assume any free agent acquisitions, but why should they at this point? (They can always revise.) I know that people are frustrated with Garland's inconsistency, but they don't peg him for anything but bottom of the rotation.

SEALgep
10-12-2004, 08:28 AM
Looks like a pretty reasonable evaluation of the Sox. They don't assume any free agent acquisitions, but why should they at this point? (They can always revise.) I know that people are frustrated with Garland's inconsistency, but they don't peg him for anything but bottom of the rotation.They have him in the 3 spot. They said the bottom of our rotation sucks.

gosox41
10-12-2004, 08:39 AM
They have him in the 3 spot. They said the bottom of our rotation sucks.

It's hard to argue that.



Bob

gosox41
10-12-2004, 08:40 AM
They are grasping at straws because they know they are gonna finish 4th next year.

And their days of making it to the playoffs consecutively are over...and they won just as much as....THE SOX!:bandance:
We've heard this before about the Twins. Meanwhile they keep beating us.



Bob

Brian26
10-12-2004, 09:03 AM
Isn't it a bit early to be doing any forecasts for next year when, in reality, "this year" isn't even over with yet? Obviously a lot of activity is going to happen in December and January, so any forecasts should occur after that.

gosox41
10-12-2004, 09:23 AM
Isn't it a bit early to be doing any forecasts for next year when, in reality, "this year" isn't even over with yet? Obviously a lot of activity is going to happen in December and January, so any forecasts should occur after that.
Let's hope there's a lot of activity on the southside. Last year was painfully quiet. We can't just sit back and wait for the Twins to lose more players to free agency and say we'll beat them that way. This team has major holes to fill to get better.


Bob

Flight #24
10-12-2004, 10:04 AM
You've been drinking too much of the same Kool-Aid Ray Durham, Billy Koch, et al. have been drinking. They'll still have the best pitcher in the AL in Santana. I'd be awfully surprised if they didn't retain Radke, who will likely give them a home-town discount. They still have Nathan, Hunter, Stewart, Jones, Mourneau, Maurer, Cuddyer, LeCroy, Romero, Ford. They remain the favorites in the division until someone proves otherwise. It's not even close.
That'll have to be one heck of a discount, and in the face of much bigger $$$ being waved at him from other teams. Santana's going to eat up most if not all of the savings from Koskie's departure. Add in other raises to players like Hunter, Stewart, etc and it'll be hard for them to come anywhere close to what Brad made this year (IIRC, $8mil).

It could happen, but I haven't seen many instances where a player turns down 8-9mil a year to sign with a team for 6.

infohawk
10-12-2004, 11:22 AM
Well, whomever wrote the "preview" of the 2005 White Sox was extraordinarily premature. To assume that no changes/additions would be forthcoming for any team one is analyzing is wholly devoid of any credibility. The Minnesota media "analysis" reveals hope on the writer's part rather than an honest assessment.

duke of dorwood
10-12-2004, 11:34 AM
One forecast that can be made:


Less payroll. More $ for tickets.

This is White Sox Baseball

Soxzilla
10-12-2004, 11:45 AM
You've been drinking too much of the same Kool-Aid Ray Durham, Billy Koch, et al. have been drinking. They'll still have the best pitcher in the AL in Santana. I'd be awfully surprised if they didn't retain Radke, who will likely give them a home-town discount. They still have Nathan, Hunter, Stewart, Jones, Mourneau, Maurer, Cuddyer, LeCroy, Romero, Ford. They remain the favorites in the division until someone proves otherwise. It's not even close.
Whatever. I never said the white sox would definitely finish above them, I'm just saying that as it looks now. The tigers, indians and white sox all are on the brink of having quality teams. The tigers need pitching, the indians need a bullpen and the sox need a little bit here and there.

And to say Radke, who is making 10.75 million this year, is going to give a 'home town' discount to minnesota is pretty reckless. Minnesota isn't even his hometown, tampa bay is his hometown, which is where, barring any interaction from the yankmees, he will probably sign.

And apart from Morneau and Santana, I really don't see much the twins can get excited about for next year. They better throw another coat of greise on mulhullond. Or else that flamethrower Gresinger is GARUANTEED to have a spot in their rotation for next year.

Can you imagine facing Silva - lohse - Greisinger all in one series? Ugh...I'd be suprised if we don't score 30 runs off them.:gulp:

Call it kool aid, call it false hope. Whatever, at least I have some facts to back up my claims, rather than this ****ty beat writer who claims the sox won't sign any free agents this offseason.

:manos
"I will be living proof this beat writer don't know ****, AREEBAH!!"

shagar69
10-12-2004, 11:52 AM
Whatever. I never said the white sox would definitely finish above them, I'm just saying that as it looks now. The tigers, indians and white sox all are on the brink of having quality teams. The tigers need pitching, the indians need a bullpen and the sox need a little bit here and there.

And to say Radke, who is making 10.75 million this year, is going to give a 'home town' discount to minnesota is pretty reckless. Minnesota isn't even his hometown, tampa bay is his hometown, which is where, barring any interaction from the yankmees, he will probably sign.

And apart from Morneau and Santana, I really don't see much the twins can get excited about for next year. They better throw another coat of greise on mulhullond. Or else that flamethrower Gresinger is GARUANTEED to have a spot in their rotation for next year.

Can you imagine facing Silva - lohse - Greisinger all in one series? Ugh...I'd be suprised if we don't score 30 runs off them.:gulp:

Call it kool aid, call it false hope. Whatever, at least I have some facts to back up my claims, rather than this ****ty beat writer who claims the sox won't sign any free agents this offseason.

:manos
"I will be living proof this beat writer don't know ****, AREEBAH!!"
how exactly are we on the upswing? maggs is gone, frank is old, there are questions about 3,4,5 in the rotation, hell even garcia is a question. carl everett is our RF, crede and harris are ?, out BP is a ?, and outside of some BP help, we have NOTHING at the high minor levels ready to help next year. the twins got morneau who is what we want borchard to be, they have santana, they have a good BP, they have young guys like cuddyer, restovich,kubel, ready to step in, mauer will be back, and they have stud minor leguers like tife and durbin who will make the team next year

mweflen
10-12-2004, 02:19 PM
All this talk about the Twins' losses in the offseason knocking them out of '05 contention sounds a lot like the talk I recall about their offseason losses knocking them out of '04 contention.

I don't live in Minnesota, I don't know any of their staff personally. So I can only say this based on results: The Twins obviously are far superior to the Sox in terms of developing young players and motivating current players to perform at their peak.

The Sox, on the other hand, seem to be very bad at developing young players (Crede, Harris, Borchard, Josh Paul, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, Jon Rauch, Josh Fogg, and other innumerable minor league system busts...) in addition to seeming very bad at maximizing the performance of current players (Valentin, Konerko '04, Crede, Harris, Adkins, Cotts, Grilli, Schoeneweis, BARFFLGLFLRRLGFLLMike JacksonFLRGBLFLRGL).

Injuries are not to blame for subpar efforts in 2001 thru 03. We had a few, but not to our 3-4 hitters as this year.

Replacing Manuel, who was a class act, but had all the motivational skills of a doorknob, was a start. Replacing the secondary coaching staff was a start, too. Now, how about replacing the minor league staff, who seem to bungle and/or overestimate the development of our farm system?

santo=dorf
10-12-2004, 02:23 PM
hell even garcia is a question.
:rolling:
:troll

ma-gaga
10-12-2004, 03:51 PM
They are grasping at straws because they know they are gonna finish 4th next year. Yeah sure. Do you want a real analysis of the Twins roster for next year?
Go here: http://online.startribune.com/nuke/twins/

If they keep their free agents (Koskie, Radke, Guzman, Jones and Rivas) they are in for $72MM. If they sign Koskie and Radke for discounted prices ($5MM and $8MM respectively, and let Guzman, Rivas and Jones go elsewhere they get down to approximately $54MM, which is their target number. And they have decent players to fill those vacant spots. Guzman actually played pretty good the second half of this year, but he's still not worth his $5.75MM option.

This assumes that 'Cy' Santana only gets $4MM next year. Which IS inline with a player of his experience. Look at Oakland's big 3. Look at what Buerhle makes.

Regardless. Keeping together their roster for $54MM means they lose Jacque Jones and replace him with Lew Ford or Jason Kubel. That isn't a significant dropoff. Losing Radke would be the only move that would SERIOUSLY hurt their chances next year. I don't quite think he's ready to "retire" to Tampa Bay yet. Maybe in 2-4 years.

Can someone provide a link to where they got this information from? I'd be interested in seeing which sources they have. This isn't a big deal. They don't know what the W.Sox MIGHT do. Nobody really knows yet.

Lip Man 1
10-12-2004, 05:12 PM
What's funny is that the Twins have finished better then the Sox the last four consecutive seasons (let's not forget 2001 gang...) yet some delusional optimists STILL think it was a 'fluke'.

LOL

Lip

Soxzilla
10-12-2004, 07:38 PM
how exactly are we on the upswing? maggs is gone, frank is old, there are questions about 3,4,5 in the rotation, hell even garcia is a question. carl everett is our RF, crede and harris are ?, out BP is a ?, and outside of some BP help, we have NOTHING at the high minor levels ready to help next year. the twins got morneau who is what we want borchard to be, they have santana, they have a good BP, they have young guys like cuddyer, restovich,kubel, ready to step in, mauer will be back, and they have stud minor leguers like tife and durbin who will make the team next year
Who said the sox were on the upswing?

All I'm saying is the twins should worry about their own problems, instead of targeting the white sox as some sort of scape goat.

"Hey fellas, we just got our asses handed to us by the yankees again.....BUT AT LEAST WE ARE BETTER THAN THE WHITE SOX, BLADIANGOIAHDOANIGAOIDHAODNIA"

We'll see what happens next year.

shagar69
10-12-2004, 07:43 PM
:rolling:
:troll
have you looked at the stats? and dont gimme that crap about his road ERA and his home ERA. fact is he SUCKED while he was here. his ERA was almost 5. but that doesnt matter since we're only gonna pitch him in day games and on the road.

Shingotime!!
10-12-2004, 08:02 PM
Freddie gave us wins and thats what counts

Dub25
10-12-2004, 09:08 PM
I think the Twins need to worry about getting past the Yankees in the playoffs instead of worrying about a team that can't make the playoffs.

OEO Magglio
10-12-2004, 09:26 PM
have you looked at the stats? and dont gimme that crap about his road ERA and his home ERA. fact is he SUCKED while he was here. his ERA was almost 5. but that doesnt matter since we're only gonna pitch him in day games and on the road.
It's good to see you always do your hw hab. Will you explain to me how 4.46 is close to 5?? Granted that's not a great era, however when we were in contention he was pitching great for the sox, but when he fell flat out of the race he had a couple of outings that really inflated his era. I'm sure your going to say well they're professionals these type of things shouldn't effect them,well they're human, it's a different game when your in contention compared to when your out of it.

santo=dorf
10-12-2004, 09:31 PM
have you looked at the stats? and dont gimme that crap about his road ERA and his home ERA. fact is he SUCKED while he was here. his ERA was almost 5. but that doesnt matter since we're only gonna pitch him in day games and on the road. :rolling:

Yeah, because road ERA is not a better indication of how well a pitcher pitches.

Why are you even a Sox fan considering you hate everything about the Sox?

Buehrle's road ERA was 2.77 this past year. That means nothing to you?

Flight #24
10-12-2004, 09:46 PM
have you looked at the stats? and dont gimme that crap about his road ERA and his home ERA. fact is he SUCKED while he was here. his ERA was almost 5. but that doesnt matter since we're only gonna pitch him in day games and on the road.
For being a FOBB, you sure don't understand the appropriate use and interpretation of stats.

Why dont' you go look up his park-adjusted ERA. Or for a more pidgin view, just check the average runs scored at USCF as compared to almost every other park. (Hint: It's higher, its like pitching at Coors where ERA's can be higher and you still pitched well.)