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mymanmaggs30
10-08-2004, 08:42 PM
who do you think will be the dh if frank is not 100% by spring?? paul?? if there is a paul??:bandance: :bandance:

santo=dorf
10-08-2004, 08:44 PM
who do you think will be the dh if frank is not 100% by spring?? paul?? if there is a paul??:bandance: :bandance:Everett.

Then we'll have either Escobar or Borchard in RF.:(:

Tragg
10-08-2004, 09:29 PM
who do you think will be the dh if frank is not 100% by spring?? paul?? if there is a paul??:bandance: :bandance::versatile

You rang?

"Uh, I don't think so- I have too many diverse skills to be stuck at DH"

Shingotime!!
10-08-2004, 10:43 PM
Am i the only one who thinks that if we aquire Jason Kendall from the Pirates via a trade we will have solved all our probems. Heres the lineup.

1 Kendall (C)
2 Rowand (CF)
3 Lee (LF)
4 Thomas (DH)
5 Konerko (1B)
6 Everett (RF)
7 Uribe (SS)
8 Crede (3B)
9 Harris (2B)

idseer
10-08-2004, 10:46 PM
Am i the only one who thinks that if we aquire Jason Kendall from the Pirates via a trade we will have solved all our probems. Heres the lineup.

1 Kendall (C)
2 Rowand (CF)
3 Lee (LF)
4 Thomas (DH)
5 Konerko (1B)
6 Everett (RF)
7 Uribe (SS)
8 Crede (3B)
9 Harris (2B)
yes. i'd bet you ARE the only one who thinks all our problems are solved just by acquiring kendall.

Ol' No. 2
10-08-2004, 10:49 PM
Am i the only one who thinks that if we aquire Jason Kendall from the Pirates via a trade we will have solved all our probems. Heres the lineup.

1 Kendall (C)
2 Rowand (CF)
3 Lee (LF)
4 Thomas (DH)
5 Konerko (1B)
6 Everett (RF)
7 Uribe (SS)
8 Crede (3B)
9 Harris (2B)Uhh...no. One BIG problem is Everett in RF. It gives me the willies just thinking about it. But the bigger problem is that none of these guys can pitch, which is the BIGGEST need for the Sox. Not that I wouldn't like to have a good leadoff hitter, but that's #3 on my priority list, after a top-of-the-order pitcher and bullpen help.

Whitesox029
10-08-2004, 10:55 PM
who do you think will be the dh if frank is not 100% by spring?? paul?? if there is a paul??:bandance: :bandance:That's a fairly easy question I would think. PK will DH for a while and Ross will play 1st, just like we finished off this season. If for some idiotic reason Konerko is traded, it will probably be Everett.

Shingotime!!
10-08-2004, 10:56 PM
What do you think are our chances of signing Urbina or Benitez. I would perfer them closing over Shingo, even though Shingo is awsome. I have seen Shing come up with a 3 run save opp. so many times just for him to scare the crap out of you and load the bases while alowing 2 runs.

Whitesox029
10-08-2004, 10:58 PM
yes. i'd bet you ARE the only one who thinks all our problems are solved just by acquiring kendall.Indeed, Kendall would have a hard time as our much-needed 5th/4th/3rd/2nd/Ace starter

Shingotime!!
10-08-2004, 10:59 PM
If we do get Radke we will have a starting rotation of 1 Radke 2 Garcia 3 Buehle 4 Contreras and 5 Garland. For everyone who thinks Garland will get traded your crazy. I thing i rotation is one of the better ones in the american league.

Shingotime!!
10-08-2004, 11:02 PM
I prefer Everett in right field over Borchard any day. If we have Everett and his salary we might as well use hime.

Whitesox029
10-08-2004, 11:02 PM
If we do get Radke we will have a starting rotation of 1 Radke 2 Garcia 3 Buehle 4 Contreras and 5 Garland. For everyone who thinks Garland will get traded your crazy. I thing i rotation is one of the better ones in the american league.On the contrary, our rotation is at best 6th-8th in the AL. WE. HAVE. NO. 5TH. MAN. The 1st and most important trait of a "good" rotation is that it's complete with 5 men whom the manager can trust for at least a good 5 innings on most days.

idseer
10-08-2004, 11:10 PM
On the contrary, our rotation is at best 6th-8th in the AL. WE. HAVE. NO. 5TH. MAN. The 1st and most important trait of a "good" rotation is that it's complete with 5 men whom the manager can trust for at least a good 5 innings on most days.
you don't think garland who will win between 10 and 15 games is an adequate 5th starter? what other team would have a better 5th starter?

Shingotime!!
10-08-2004, 11:12 PM
Considering that in the beggining of the Season Garland was our third starter and Shoenwies was our 4th starter and there was no 5th starter to be seen and we fared of pretty good then i think it would be ok for Garland to be our 5th starter. And is it possible that if Schoenwies comes back that he can be our 5th starter. Early in the season before he got "hurt" he was doing well. Opinions?

Ol' No. 2
10-08-2004, 11:32 PM
On the contrary, our rotation is at best 6th-8th in the AL. WE. HAVE. NO. 5TH. MAN. The 1st and most important trait of a "good" rotation is that it's complete with 5 men whom the manager can trust for at least a good 5 innings on most days.Garland had 16 quality starts in 34 tries. That's probably better than most 5th starters. And if you look around, you won't find many teams that have 5 starters with lower ERA's than Garland, and a lot of them don't have 4. Garland is also 16th in the AL (42nd in MLB) in G/F ratio (so how come he gives up so many HR?), which is what you want in Comiskey. He's more than good enough for a 5th.

Tragg
10-08-2004, 11:35 PM
Am i the only one who thinks that if we aquire Jason Kendall from the Pirates via a trade we will have solved all our probems. Heres the lineup.

1 Kendall (C)
2 Rowand (CF)
3 Lee (LF)
4 Thomas (DH)
5 Konerko (1B)
6 Everett (RF)
7 Uribe (SS)
8 Crede (3B)
9 Harris (2B)
Same mediocre defense we've suffered through, weak in RF in all aspects, and the pitching remains unresolved. And for his, what, $9 mill price tag, I doubt we'd be able to do much else.

He has a hell of an OBP, but zero power. Good hitting catchers are usually not worth their price, imo.

Is he a good defender?

Whitesox029
10-08-2004, 11:43 PM
If we do get Radke we will have a starting rotation of 1 Radke 2 Garcia 3 Buehle 4 Contreras and 5 Garland. For everyone who thinks Garland will get traded your crazy. I thing i rotation is one of the better ones in the american league.That's one big matzo ball hanging out there--"IF" we get Radke.
you don't think garland who will win between 10 and 15 games is an adequate 5th starter? what other team would have a better 5th starter? Garland had 16 quality starts in 34 tries. That's probably better than most 5th starters. And if you look around, you won't find many teams that have 5 starters with lower ERA's than Garland, and a lot of them don't have 4. Garland is also 16th in the AL (42nd in MLB) in G/F ratio (so how come he gives up so many HR?), which is what you want in Comiskey. He's more than good enough for a 5th. So Garland is our fifth all of the sudden? Who is our fourth? Contreras? Is our third Garcia? Is Buerhle now second? Yes? Then who's our ace? Schoenweis? Grilli?
By my count, it is
1. Buehrle 2. Garcia 3. Contreras 4. Garland 5. Schoenweis/Grilli/Diaz/Me/Billy Pierce/Joe Crede/Benjamin Disraeli/Hamster (it's all the same).

Shingotime!!
10-08-2004, 11:43 PM
True, considering the direction that KW says he wants this team to go. Jason isnt that great of of fielding catcher.

Whitesox029
10-08-2004, 11:44 PM
And when I say Billy Pierce, I mean as he is, not the Billy Pierce of old.

Jerome
10-08-2004, 11:46 PM
Everett.

Then we'll have either Escobar or Borchard in RF.:(:


For all those who have seen the legendary QVC Katana Slip on ebaumsworld:

"OHHHHH. That hurt. That hurt big time."

Shingotime!!
10-08-2004, 11:48 PM
Can Escobar steal bases?

dcb33
10-08-2004, 11:56 PM
Considering that in the beggining of the Season Garland was our third starter and Shoenwies was our 4th starter and there was no 5th starter to be seen and we fared of pretty good then i think it would be ok for Garland to be our 5th starter. And is it possible that if Schoenwies comes back that he can be our 5th starter. Early in the season before he got "hurt" he was doing well. Opinions?I think we need to resurrect "Schoe's Foes." There is no way I want that douche back on the team next year becuase he is a complete baby, worse than Garland. Granted, Garland dissed the fans and the players, but come on, everyone knows he's an idiot, and you can at least figure he'll finish around .500. Schoney, on the other hand, is a little punk who not only sucks, doesn't realize he sucks, but also complains about his playing time and position like a little girl. It would be a shrewd move by KW to try to unload this guy on someone.

I definitely think whoever started "Schoe's Foes" should bring it back, with a focus on discussing who the Sox should sign in the offseason to make sure good old No. 60 never starts another game for the Sox.

MisterB
10-09-2004, 01:31 AM
Can Escobar steal bases?
He stole 49 in A ball, but hasn't come close since. His overall line at AAA last year wasn't too far off from Borchard: .251/24 hr/78 rbi, 24 bb/133 k, 8 sb.

Pea-Pod
10-09-2004, 01:38 AM
He stole 49 in A ball, but hasn't come close since. His overall line at AAA last year wasn't too far off from Borchard: .251/24 hr/78 rbi, 24 bb/133 k, 8 sb.

DAM! that's a lot of strike outs!

SSN721
10-09-2004, 09:21 AM
He stole 49 in A ball, but hasn't come close since. His overall line at AAA last year wasn't too far off from Borchard: .251/24 hr/78 rbi, 24 bb/133 k, 8 sb.

Yikes that isnt too impressive. SO we will have another person on our team that will be lucky to maintain a .210-.220 ave all year? No thank you. We need help. :?:

Mickster
10-09-2004, 09:24 AM
who do you think will be the dh if frank is not 100% by spring?? paul?? if there is a paul??:bandance: :bandance:
Shouldn't the "bananadance" be used when your'e happy about something?

Ol' No. 2
10-09-2004, 10:13 AM
That's one big matzo ball hanging out there--"IF" we get Radke.
So Garland is our fifth all of the sudden? Who is our fourth? Contreras? Is our third Garcia? Is Buerhle now second? Yes? Then who's our ace? Schoenweis? Grilli?
By my count, it is
1. Buehrle 2. Garcia 3. Contreras 4. Garland 5. Schoenweis/Grilli/Diaz/Me/Billy Pierce/Joe Crede/Benjamin Disraeli/Hamster (it's all the same).Garland as a 5th starter is predicated on the assumption that the Sox sign/trade for a top-3 caliber starter. Kenny has said numerous times that he intends to do that in the off-season. If you don't believe him, that's your right, but I don't know what else he could do to convince the skeptics. We'll know soon enough. Pavano seems to be everyone's top pick, but here are a few others (not necessarily FA) who might be a good fit for the Sox:

Miguel Batista (TOR): A groundball pitcher throwing on artificial turf - not a good combination. Pitched better when he was with ARI. Tied for 19th in MLB in GIDP and 11th in G/F. On Kenny's radar screen last off-season.

Chris Carpenter (STL): Would be VERY tough to get (well, probably impossible), but an ideal fit for the Sox...high SO and high G/F. Not sure of his contract status. Could the Sox get him in a trade? They'd have to give up a lot, but could be worth it.

Odalis Perez (LA): FA making $5M in 2004. 5.9 K/9 and 1.6 G/F. KW was after him last year, but couldn't swing a trade. The Sox could use another lefty in the rotation, too. (Note to KW: Make sure you don't get OLIVER Perez in PIT.)

Jjav829
10-09-2004, 10:18 AM
Odalis Perez (LA): FA making $5M in 2004. 5.9 K/9 and 1.6 G/F. KW was after him last year, but couldn't swing a trade. The Sox could use another lefty in the rotation, too. (Note to KW: Make sure you don't get OLIVER Perez in PIT.)
Uhh, why? I'd take Oliver Perez over Odalis Perez any day of the week. Of course Oliver Perez is untouchable, whereas Odalis is a Free Agent.

Ol' No. 2
10-09-2004, 11:42 AM
Uhh, why? I'd take Oliver Perez over Odalis Perez any day of the week. Of course Oliver Perez is untouchable, whereas Odalis is a Free Agent.The strikeout numbers are nice, but Oliver Perez is also a flyball pitcher (G/F=0.74). What's the chance he could keep that spiffy ERA pitching in Comiskey?

Jjav829
10-09-2004, 12:55 PM
The strikeout numbers are nice, but Oliver Perez is also a flyball pitcher (G/F=0.74). What's the chance he could keep that spiffy ERA pitching in Comiskey?
Getting a ground ball pitcher would be nice, but let's not overanalyze here. Oliver Perez is a hell of a pitcher, however he records outs. He gets the hitters out. Buehrle is a ground ball pitcher, look what the Cell has done for him. Point being I wouldn't pass up a better pitcher just because he's a fly ball pitcher. That said, this is pointless since there's no way the Pirates give up Perez.

santo=dorf
10-09-2004, 02:06 PM
Odalis Perez (LA): FA making $5M in 2004. 5.9 K/9 and 1.6 G/F. KW was after him last year, but couldn't swing a trade. The Sox could use another lefty in the rotation, too. (Note to KW: Make sure you don't get OLIVER Perez in PIT.)
Are you kdding me? I think half of these KW bashers would **** if he able to get Oliver Perez. You say he is a flyball pitcher, but you are absolutely wrong. I remember Peter Gammons saying that Victor Zambrano is the second hardest pitcher to put the ball into play, and Oliver Perez is #1. He had a K/9 ratio of 10.97. That is better than Johan, Randy Johnson, Prior, and Schmidt. In fact, he lead both leagues in K/9 for starters who have pitched the entire year.

Still think he is a flyball pitcher? :nuts:

OEO Magglio
10-09-2004, 02:43 PM
On the contrary, our rotation is at best 6th-8th in the AL. WE. HAVE. NO. 5TH. MAN. The 1st and most important trait of a "good" rotation is that it's complete with 5 men whom the manager can trust for at least a good 5 innings on most days.
Are you crazy?? I know there is a ton of people who hate garland and yes he annoys me a ton at times also, however Garland is comparable with most of the 4th starters in the al and even some 3 starters, Jon Garland would be a great 5th starter.

nitetrain8601
10-09-2004, 06:20 PM
Are you kdding me? I think half of these KW bashers would **** if he able to get Oliver Perez. You say he is a flyball pitcher, but you are absolutely wrong. I remember Peter Gammons saying that Victor Zambrano is the second hardest pitcher to put the ball into play, and Oliver Perez is #1. He had a K/9 ratio of 10.97. That is better than Johan, Randy Johnson, Prior, and Schmidt. In fact, he lead both leagues in K/9 for starters who have pitched the entire year.

Still think he is a flyball pitcher? :nuts:
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. I know he was top 5 in K's this year. He's not a flyball pitcher. Some of these people have problems.

Ol' No. 2
10-09-2004, 06:21 PM
Are you kdding me? I think half of these KW bashers would **** if he able to get Oliver Perez. You say he is a flyball pitcher, but you are absolutely wrong. I remember Peter Gammons saying that Victor Zambrano is the second hardest pitcher to put the ball into play, and Oliver Perez is #1. He had a K/9 ratio of 10.97. That is better than Johan, Randy Johnson, Prior, and Schmidt. In fact, he lead both leagues in K/9 for starters who have pitched the entire year.

Still think he is a flyball pitcher? :nuts:Peter Gammons is a moron, so let's leave him out of it.

I love the strikeouts. But it takes 27 outs to win a game. Even at 11 K/9, that still leaves 16 more outs to get, 9-10 of which are going to be fly balls. And the way Comiskey plays, it's likely that a fair number of those fly balls will be caught by someone not on the field of play. I'm not suggesting Perez is a POS. Just that he's not a good fit for Comiskey. His ERA would be quite a bit higher than what he's putting up in Pittsburgh. I would be very careful about getting any pitcher with a G/F below 1.

santo=dorf
10-09-2004, 06:40 PM
Peter Gammons is a moron, so let's leave him out of it.

I love the strikeouts. But it takes 27 outs to win a game. Even at 11 K/9, that still leaves 16 more outs to get, 9-10 of which are going to be fly balls. And the way Comiskey plays, it's likely that a fair number of those fly balls will be caught by someone not on the field of play. I'm not suggesting Perez is a POS. Just that he's not a good fit for Comiskey. His ERA would be quite a bit higher than what he's putting up in Pittsburgh. I would be very careful about getting any pitcher with a G/F below 1.Peter Gammons was using numbers, he wasn't stating his opinion.

Pitcher_______GO_______AO____GO/AO_______K's____K-AO
Oliver Perez___147______167____.82_________239____72
R. Johnson____212______224____.9__________290____66
Johan________189______219____.93_________265____46
Prior_________91_______121____.80_________139____1 8

All of these pitchers have a GO/AO<1, do you not want them on your team? Look at how many more outs Perez gets via the strikeout than flyball or linedrives. Just because a pitcher has a GO/AO<1 doesn't make them a flyball pitcher. These guys are strikeout pitchers.

Shingotime!!
10-09-2004, 07:06 PM
Any pitcher, nomatter what his groung ball to fly ball ratio is, will be more welcome that Felix Diaz or Jason Grilli.

Shingotime!!
10-09-2004, 07:42 PM
Ok, say by some chance we do get Radke. If we go to the 2005 playoffs, which is a big "if" then we have a rotation of Radke, Garcia, and Burlehe. Thats a hell of a rotation but we really dont have a staff "ace" like Santana. Its to bad there isnt one on the free agent market. Opinions?

Shingotime!!
10-09-2004, 07:43 PM
Hey Everbody, Burlehe won his bet, The twins dont make it out of the first round!!!!!!

OEO Magglio
10-09-2004, 07:49 PM
Ok, say by some chance we do get Radke. If we go to the 2005 playoffs, which is a big "if" then we have a rotation of Radke, Garcia, and Burlehe. Thats a hell of a rotation but we really dont have a staff "ace" like Santana. Its to bad there isnt one on the free agent market. Opinions?
Pavano and Pedro are aces but they'll more then likely be out of the sox price range. However like you said I would love to go into a playoff series throwing out there garcia, buehrle and radke.

Whitesox029
10-09-2004, 11:55 PM
Garland as a 5th starter is predicated on the assumption that the Sox sign/trade for a top-3 caliber starter. Kenny has said numerous times that he intends to do that in the off-season. If you don't believe him, that's your right, but I don't know what else he could do to convince the skeptics. We'll know soon enough. Pavano seems to be everyone's top pick, but here are a few others (not necessarily FA) who might be a good fit for the Sox:

Miguel Batista (TOR): A groundball pitcher throwing on artificial turf - not a good combination. Pitched better when he was with ARI. Tied for 19th in MLB in GIDP and 11th in G/F. On Kenny's radar screen last off-season.

Chris Carpenter (STL): Would be VERY tough to get (well, probably impossible), but an ideal fit for the Sox...high SO and high G/F. Not sure of his contract status. Could the Sox get him in a trade? They'd have to give up a lot, but could be worth it.

Odalis Perez (LA): FA making $5M in 2004. 5.9 K/9 and 1.6 G/F. KW was after him last year, but couldn't swing a trade. The Sox could use another lefty in the rotation, too. (Note to KW: Make sure you don't get OLIVER Perez in PIT.)Isn't Atlanta's Russ Ortiz available?

Ol' No. 2
10-10-2004, 10:59 AM
Peter Gammons was using numbers, he wasn't stating his opinion.

Pitcher_______GO_______AO____GO/AO_______K's____K-AO
Oliver Perez___147______167____.82_________239____72
R. Johnson____212______224____.9__________290____66
Johan________189______219____.93_________265____46
Prior_________91_______121____.80_________139____1 8

All of these pitchers have a GO/AO<1, do you not want them on your team? Look at how many more outs Perez gets via the strikeout than flyball or linedrives. Just because a pitcher has a GO/AO<1 doesn't make them a flyball pitcher. These guys are strikeout pitchers.When I said Perez was a "flyball pitcher", I was referring to his low GB/FB ratio. Maybe it was a misleading choice of words. If you just substitute "pitchers with GB/FB ratios below 1" we can eliminate quibbling over labels. The point was that his performace is likely to suffer from pitching in Comiskey much more than one with a higher GB/FB ratio. It follows, then, that his VALUE to the Sox is less than to another team. But his PRICE will be set by the market as a whole. As a result, the Sox would have to overpay relative to the value they get.

You can make the same kind of argument with Konerko. The difference in his home/away stats indicate that he's more valuable to the Sox than to another team, so they're likely to get less than full value trading him.