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idseer
10-06-2004, 12:50 PM
this seems a natural question about now.

santo=dorf
10-06-2004, 01:03 PM
I'm glad someone started it. For me-Yankees.

The Yanks got me interested in baseball back in 1998 (I stopped watching after 1994. Take a willd ****ing guess why) when they won 114 games. I also like how King George meets the consumer's demands.

I also dont buy this "rooting for the division" crap either. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of being rivals with another team? Why would we want the Twins to be able to shove something else in our face besides an AL Central crown? Even if the Twins win the Pennant or the World Series, it doesn't change the fact that KC lost 105 games this year, and Cleveland and Detroit are not as good as most of the other teams in the AL.

Mickster
10-06-2004, 01:17 PM
I want the yanks to beat the twinkies. Shows my true distaste for the twins as the yanks are my second least favorite team, while Steinbrenner is my favorite owner....

balke
10-06-2004, 01:23 PM
Hmm.... It's still hurricane season right? Natural disaster anyone?



I was for Mussina last night all the way... I hate both these teams. This is like asking whether you'd rather make out with your grandpa or your dad. Lose-lose situation.

I like Radke, so tomorrow I'm probably pro twins during the game, which like last night, who I root for will lose.

I'm trying to stay positive. If Yanks lose, 180+ mil lost to -60mil. Twins lose, (especially with Johan on the mound) I could live vicariously through the Yanks big bats, as if the sox never lost our big boys.

idseer
10-06-2004, 01:23 PM
I'm glad someone started it. For me-Yankees.

The Yanks got me interested in baseball back in 1998 (I stopped watching after 1994. Take a willd ****ing guess why) when they won 114 games. I also like how King George meets the consumer's demands.
there was a time i liked the yankees too. late 50's when the sox were their main rivals. they had guys like mantle, skowron, mcdougal, boyer, ford, berra ... etc. i liked all those guys even tho they were the dreaded enemy. the fact that they used kansas city a's as their farm system bothered me but even that didn't make me hate the team. it's the steinbrenner era that i can't stand.

I also dont buy this "rooting for the division" crap either. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of being rivals with another team? Why would we want the Twins to be able to shove something else in our face besides an AL Central crown? Even if the Twins win the Pennant or the World Series, it doesn't change the fact that KC lost 105 games this year, and Cleveland and Detroit are not as good as most of the other teams in the AL.
i don't understand. it's a natural progression, like, when your highschool basketball team drops out of the local tourney you tend to root for other local schools don't you?
doesn't it go something like .... self, family, street, neighborhood, town, county, state, country, world, solar system, milky way, local group?
i feel loyalty to the a l central division, whether it was cleveland, detroit or kc.

DrCrawdad
10-06-2004, 01:25 PM
FWIW: DrCrawdad is for the Twins.

Paulwny
10-06-2004, 01:32 PM
There are daily discussions on this board as to JR having or not having the money for fa's. Well, who brought about this escalation? Non other then King George who has continually used the rest of mlb as his minor league farm system. Forget about Beltran, he'll be patrolling cf in yankmee stadium. With all the sp problems this year, forget about Pavano, King George will present him with a blank check. GO TWINS !

"He who has the gold makes the rules."-- Armand Hammer

Baby Fisk
10-06-2004, 01:50 PM
Boston or Anaheim to beat whomever wins so we can be rid of both.

SomebodyToldMe
10-06-2004, 02:30 PM
I'm for the Yanks.

And agree about the whole "Rooting for the division" thing is crap.

If my SOX can't win, I don't want ANYONE from our division to.

ma_deuce
10-06-2004, 02:36 PM
To be compleely honest, I don't want either to win. However, I hate the Yankmees outright. I strongly dislike the Twins, who have shown us up for the last few years. However, the Twins play good baseball (the exception being Hunter's drive into Burke this year, but that is for another thread) and I'd love to see a good team take out those overpaid tools. Then, I want the Red Sox to beat the Twins down like a red-headed stepchild.

Still, it would be that much sweeter to watch the BoSox take out the Yankees on thier own, but I am not too choosey. Whatever the case, I want the BoSox to break thier "curse," thereby leaving the Shrubs as the only true "cursed" team in baseball... a curse that will hopefully hold strong throughout my lifetime and those of my heirs.

Deuce

Tekijawa
10-06-2004, 02:42 PM
I hate The CUBS>I hate the Yankees> I hate the Twins

I'm pulling for Houston

marlins03
10-06-2004, 03:00 PM
Twins best OF Defense in the AL

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 03:12 PM
I'm shocked that anyone calling themselves a White Sox fan would cheer for the Twins in this series.

Simply put, a Twins world series means more income for the Twins, means a stronger Twins team. Call the Yankees what you want, the Yankees are not in the division, the Yankees have not been keeping us out of the playoffs for three years.

JGarlandrules20
10-06-2004, 03:13 PM
I seriously was considering rooting for the twins..but I really dont like Torii Hunter at all. I just can't root for that guy/his team. Since he seems to be the only player they talk about.

So, I guess I'm left slightly rooting for the yankees...go esteban! heh.

Frankfan4life
10-06-2004, 03:31 PM
I'm shocked that anyone calling themselves a White Sox fan would cheer for the Twins in this series.

Simply put, a Twins world series means more income for the Twins, means a stronger Twins team. Call the Yankees what you want, the Yankees are not in the division, the Yankees have not been keeping us out of the playoffs for three years.I totally concur. Rooting for your worst rival makes no sense to me. Why would Sox fans feel good if the Twins win? I've been rooting against the Twins all season and I'm not going to change now.

Sox fans should hate the Twins a heck of a lot more than they hate the Cubs and almost nobody on this board would root for the Cubs to win the World Series.

SoxEd
10-06-2004, 03:40 PM
Much as I dislike them, I'm rooting for the Yankee$...

The reason for this is (only partly in jest) that if the Twins not only win the AL Central Division, but also beat the richest team in Sport, on their poxy payroll, then I fear that the Sox front office may decide that our recent lack of success may actually be down to having a payroll that is too high.:o:

Then again, if the Yanks win, maybe it'll just prove to our owners that the Baseball Gods are on the side of the Big Payrolls, with which we'll never be able to compete, so why even try?
Hmm...

A Twins win would also really rub our noses in it - when was the last time the Sox got past the first round of the playoffs? (Admittedly, in England I don't meet many Twins fans, so I'm personally pretty safe from this :wink: )

Of course, MLB will be rooting for a Yankees/Carmines Championship series to maximise that broadcasting revenue, so maybe I ought to root for the Twins.

No, stuff that, I'll root for the Angels instead.

That way, we'll have a chance of seeing two recent Sox pitchers make it to the ALCS.

soxfan26
10-06-2004, 03:45 PM
the Yankees have not been keeping us out of the playoffs for three years.
No they haven't I wonder who has?

:reinsy
"Who, Me?"

GO TWINS!!!

kraut83
10-06-2004, 03:50 PM
The Twins organization & their fans are arrogant for no reason. At least the Yankees & their fans have a reason.

Pulling for the Yanks now, and hope they get pummeled by Ana/Bos in the ALCS.

ja1022
10-06-2004, 04:16 PM
The Twins organization & their fans are arrogant for no reason.
Arrogant for no reason???? What about 3 consecutive division championships on a limited payroll?

And while we're on the subject, I'm on record at this site (along with a lot of others) that Torii Hunter changed the course of the Sox' season on July 26, but that was another great catch he made last night in the ninth. He's the real "Crash"

And, I've adopted the Red Sox for the playoffs.

soxfan26
10-06-2004, 04:16 PM
The Twins organization & their fans are arrogant for no reason. At least the Yankees & their fans have a reason.
Three consecutive division crowns might make a guy stick his chest out...

LongLiveFisk
10-06-2004, 04:22 PM
i don't understand. it's a natural progression, like, when your highschool basketball team drops out of the local tourney you tend to root for other local schools don't you?
doesn't it go something like .... self, family, street, neighborhood, town, county, state, country, world, solar system, milky way, local group?
i feel loyalty to the a l central division, whether it was cleveland, detroit or kc.
I don't think it's just Sox fans. Somehow, I don't envision Cubs fans cheering for the Cardinals (or vice-versa).

FireReinsdorf
10-06-2004, 04:27 PM
There are daily discussions on this board as to JR having or not having the money for fa's. Well, who brought about this escalation? Non other then King George who has continually used the rest of mlb as his minor league farm system. Forget about Beltran, he'll be patrolling cf in yankmee stadium. With all the sp problems this year, forget about Pavano, King George will present him with a blank check. GO TWINS !

"He who has the gold makes the rules."-- Armand Hammer
Yeah! Shame on George for breaking the $10 million dollar barrier after the 1994 strike.

Er, wait, that wasn't George was it?

Who did that again?

It couldn't have been one of hard line owners who was directly responsible for the strike and ruining one of the best chances the White Sox had at winning the world series.

minastirith67
10-06-2004, 04:41 PM
I'm shocked that anyone calling themselves a White Sox fan would cheer for the Twins in this series.



Ditto.

Anyone who is rooting for the twins and claims to be a sox fan is a ****ing idiot.

Paulwny
10-06-2004, 05:04 PM
Yeah! Shame on George for breaking the $10 million dollar barrier after the 1994 strike.

Er, wait, that wasn't George was it?

Who did that again?

It couldn't have been one of hard line owners who was directly responsible for the strike and ruining one of the best chances the White Sox had at winning the world series.
Yes it was George, it started in the 70's, out bidding teams for Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, etc. He realized it was easier to buy players rather then develop them, and he showed that it works.

StrTrkker
10-06-2004, 05:25 PM
I hate The CUBS>I hate the Yankees> I hate the Twins

I'm pulling for Houston
Im 100% with you on this...

But if I have to choose...Im gonna go with the Yankees.

Foulke You
10-06-2004, 06:30 PM
I could cheer for no team that has Torii Hunter on it. As much as I hate the Yankess, I hate the Twins and their loudmouth nonsense trashtalking even more. I will "root" for the Yankees and then hope they go 4 and out in the ALCS.

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 06:48 PM
The Yankees aren't getting it done. Looks like the Twins will be in the ALCS yet again.

bigfoot
10-06-2004, 07:04 PM
Much like SoxEd, I wouldn't want a Twinkie win to in any way provide a basis for a continuation of the Wirtz-like payroll that JR provides to KW. As much as I have hated what the Yanks have done to the hopes of the Sox fans over the years, I want JR to see, once again what big$ can bring to the table.
~That said, the Yanks can still lose to Angels/Cards later in the playoffs.

StepsInSC
10-06-2004, 07:40 PM
I hate the Twins as much as the next guy when they're competing with the Sox, but I want them to win it all. Regardless of what some people say, I like the way they play, and I'm hard pressed to not give them a lot more credit than I can the organization that is #1 in my heart.

Truth be told...anyone other than Boston or NYY, and I'll be content.

voodoochile
10-06-2004, 09:48 PM
TorIIIIII and the rest of that pissant bunch of punks can go suck rotten eggs in that frozen wasteland of a city they call home for all I care. **** the Twinkies.


GO CARDINALS!!!

idseer
10-06-2004, 09:59 PM
TorIIIIII and the rest of that pissant bunch of punks can go suck rotten eggs in that frozen wasteland of a city they call home for all I care. **** the Twinkies.


GO CARDINALS!!!
so what are you trying to say?

CubsfansareDRUNK
10-06-2004, 10:05 PM
im voting for the twankies!!


i hate both teams, but i do think that new york is going to win this one.

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 10:32 PM
As much as I have hated what the Yanks have done to the hopes of the Sox fans over the years
The Yankees haven't been able to do anything to us for years, because we haven't been getting to the postseason.

The Twins are a far more immediate obstacle.

Chrisaway
10-06-2004, 10:43 PM
I'll take the yanks. I could never root for the Sox's biggest rival. And I respect (not necissarily like) the Yankees for spending the big cash to produce winners year after year. Hell if I owned the White Sox I'd do the same friggin thing.

soxnut
10-06-2004, 11:12 PM
I'll take the yanks. I could never root for the Sox's biggest rival. And I respect (not necissarily like) the Yankees for spending the big cash to produce winners year after year. Hell if I owned the White Sox I'd do the same friggin thing.

And would you charge the ridiculous prices that the Yankees do as well?


Whoever roots for the Yankees are a bunch of idiots. George Steinbrenner is the root cause for the ruinization of the game today. If it was Japan vs the Yanks in the World Series, I'd root for Japan!!

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 11:18 PM
George Steinbrenner is the root cause for the ruinization of the game today
Steinbrenner is the foremost example of the virtuous baseball owner. He is willing to spend large amounts of money to bring his fans a winning team year after year after year.

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 11:19 PM
And would you charge the ridiculous prices that the Yankees do as well?
The Yankees field a product that, frankly, is simply worth paying for.

Unlike some other owners who like to raise prices...

Chrisaway
10-06-2004, 11:21 PM
And would you charge the ridiculous prices that the Yankees do as well? No but I would try and field the best team possible each year.


Whoever roots for the Yankees are a bunch of idiots. George Steinbrenner is the root cause for the ruinization of the game today. If it was Japan vs the Yanks in the World Series, I'd root for Japan!!Im not really rooting for the yankees. But I could never root for the Twins.

soxnut
10-06-2004, 11:25 PM
No but I would try and field the best team possible each year.


Im not really rooting for the yankees. But I could never root for the Twins.


Ok.

I hate the Twins, but it shows how much I hate the Yankees. I'd rather see the Red Sox win the whole thing so that the media can stop fawning over "the curse", and their little fantasy about a Cubs-Red Sox World Series. They've been on that since Sports Illustrated did their faux story back in '94.

soxnut
10-06-2004, 11:26 PM
The Yankees field a product that, frankly, is simply worth paying for.

Unlike some other owners who like to raise prices...

No, it's not worth paying for. It's ridiculous.

soxnut
10-06-2004, 11:28 PM
Steinbrenner is the foremost example of the virtuous baseball owner. He is willing to spend large amounts of money to bring his fans a winning team year after year after year.

He's a sick idiot who's ruined the game.

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 11:29 PM
No, it's not worth paying for. It's ridiculous.
I think a team that has made the playoffs every year for close to a decade and has won three World Series and five pennants in that time span is worth paying for.

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 11:30 PM
He's a sick idiot who's ruined the game.
He's willing to give his fans a winning team no matter how much he has to spend. What's not to like about such a man?

soxnut
10-06-2004, 11:36 PM
He's willing to give his fans a winning team no matter how much he has to spend. What's not to like about such a man?

He has created such an imbalance that you see what we have today. Let's see what kind of team he can put together with a salary cap, and I'll give him some credit. Until then he's an idiot.

Chrisaway
10-06-2004, 11:36 PM
Ok.

I hate the Twins, but it shows how much I hate the Yankees. I'd rather see the Red Sox win the whole thing so that the media can stop fawning over "the curse", and their little fantasy about a Cubs-Red Sox World Series. They've been on that since Sports Illustrated did their faux story back in '94.The only time I'd pull for the Red Sox to win it is if they were playing the Cubs. The Red Sox are basically the AL version of the Cubs. I will be pulling for the Cardinals this year.

HomeFish
10-06-2004, 11:38 PM
He has created such an imbalance that you see what we have today.
Nonsense; the imbalance would have happened regardless because of the system in place. He merely knew how to survive in it.

Steinbrenner does not have to field a 200 million payroll. He could probably make a huge profit without doing so. Yet he does not. He continues to field one of the best teams in the game, by whatever means he has to.

minastirith67
10-07-2004, 12:56 AM
Nonsense; the imbalance would have happened regardless because of the system in place. He merely knew how to survive in it.

Steinbrenner does not have to field a 200 million payroll. He could probably make a huge profit without doing so. Yet he does not. He continues to field one of the best teams in the game, by whatever means he has to.

Exactly. Too bad JR doesn't take notice.

Realist
10-07-2004, 08:15 AM
I hate the *bleeping* Twins, but I voted that I'm gonna root for them. Hell, they're the under dogs and I can relate to that.

Let's go salary vs. salary. I gotta go Twins all the way.

The fact that the Twins beat out our team for the division championship causes me to naturally pull for them. I've always rooted for the team that beat my team. I think it shows good sportsmanship.

I also have a semi-personal connection to the Twins. A guy from my old neighborhood (South-East Side of Chicago) has been a coach for the Twins for almost 20 years, and I have a childhood buddy of mine that's been scouting for them for about 15 years (next time I see him I'm gonna punch him in the face and tell him to stop working so hard because that team seems to never get bad).

That being said, I'm predicting NY/Boston-St.Louis/Houston in the final four.

I'm guessing it's gonna be Houston/Ny in the WS only because betting on the Red Sox is like betting on the Cubs. Gimme a friggin break. :redneck

(Houston is starting to remind me of that great big boulder at the beginning of the first "Indiana Jones". Mercy.)

voodoochile
10-07-2004, 08:37 AM
He has created such an imbalance that you see what we have today. Let's see what kind of team he can put together with a salary cap, and I'll give him some credit. Until then he's an idiot.
You say salary cap, I say revenue sharing.

The owners are all way past wealthy. Every single one of them can afford to spend more than they currently are. Their profit sits unrealized in teams that are worth far above purchase price and they cry poor...

Steinbrenner works within the confines of lack theirof of the current system. Who can fault him for that?

Uncle_Patrick
10-07-2004, 08:42 AM
I'll take the Yankees any day over the Twins. I don't think I could ever root for another team in the AL Central, unless they were playing the Cubs in the World Series, and even then, if it were Twins/Cubs, I might have to take a pass on the whole, 'cause I really hate the Twins. I have no loyalty to any division. That's such a ridiculous notion, to cheer for a division because your team is in it. I have loyalty to one team, and that's the White Sox. All other teams in the AL Central are the White Sox' rivals. I know many people people here reserve their animosity for the Cubs or Yankees, but those teams have far less effect on the White Sox playoff chances than the Twins, Tigers, KC, or Cleveland, that's why I won't root for those AL Central teams.

I'm not going to hold a grudge against the Yankees because their owner is willing to spend ungodly amounts of money to win. That's the way baseball is today. If people want to blame Steinbrenner for that, fine, but if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else. Money rules the world.

That being said, I think Houston will take it all.

Nellie_Fox
10-07-2004, 11:18 AM
I'm shocked that anyone calling themselves a White Sox fan would cheer for the Twins in this series.

Simply put, a Twins world series means more income for the Twins, means a stronger Twins team. Call the Yankees what you want, the Yankees are not in the division, the Yankees have not been keeping us out of the playoffs for three years.You're 18 years old. Your perspective is very limited. The Twins have beat the Sox for three years in a row. Ho hum. Do you have any idea how many times during my youth the Sox finished second to the Yankees? Do you know that in 1963 the Sox won 93 games and finished ten games behind the Yankees? Do you know that in 1964 the Sox won 98 games and still finished second?

The Yankees will always be second on my most hated list (behind the Cubs, of course.) I won't even go into my distaste for the way the Yankees win (by having more money than anyone else) since it seems that most of you think that's just fine. But don't even think that you have enough perspective on the situation to challenge the fandom of those who don't agree that the Twins are the team that all Sox fans should hat the most.

davenicholson
10-07-2004, 11:28 AM
You're 18 years old. Your perspective is very limited. The Twins have beat the Sox for three years in a row. Ho hum. Do you have any idea how many times during my youth the Sox finished second to the Yankees? Do you know that in 1963 the Sox won 93 games and finished ten games behind the Yankees? Do you know that in 1964 the Sox won 98 games and still finished second?

The Yankees will always be second on my most hated list (behind the Cubs, of course.) I won't even go into my distaste for the way the Yankees win (by having more money than anyone else) since it seems that most of you think that's just fine. But don't even think that you have enough perspective on the situation to challenge the fandom of those who don't agree that the Twins are the team that all Sox fans should hat the most.Amen,halleluja and right on, my Brother! :cool: Or, to put it in the jargon of today's yute: Best. Post. Ever.

Iwritecode
10-07-2004, 11:38 AM
To all those who are complaining about the Yankees and how much money they spend...

How many people remember the 80's when King George bought the team? The stadium was falling apart, the team was horrible and the attendance sucked.

George bought the team, used his OWN money to repair the staduim and did whatever it took to get the team back to the WS. Now he is enjoying the fruits of his labor.

Too bad we couldn't get an owner that cared about winning half as much as he does...




:reinsy

Spend my own money? Are you nuts???

Mickster
10-07-2004, 11:42 AM
I won't even go into my distaste for the way the Yankees win (by having more money than anyone else) since it seems that most of you think that's just fine. But don't even think that you have enough perspective on the situation to challenge the fandom of those who don't agree that the Twins are the team that all Sox fans should hat the most.
I am not a fan of the Yankees as a team but I can tell you that I would do the exact same thing as Steinbrenner if I were in his shoes. If anyone says differently then they are flat lying.

If you were an owner and had $300M in revenue per year from all of your team "sources" such as attendance, concessions, marketing, television, etc.., would you not spend $180M on payroll, win countless championships, make a very nice profit, be revered as a hero in your city (which, by the way, is the largest city in the U.S.)? I sure would.:cool:

Iwritecode
10-07-2004, 11:45 AM
You're 18 years old. Your perspective is very limited. The Twins have beat the Sox for three years in a row. Ho hum. Do you have any idea how many times during my youth the Sox finished second to the Yankees? Do you know that in 1963 the Sox won 93 games and finished ten games behind the Yankees? Do you know that in 1964 the Sox won 98 games and still finished second?

The Yankees will always be second on my most hated list (behind the Cubs, of course.) I won't even go into my distaste for the way the Yankees win (by having more money than anyone else) since it seems that most of you think that's just fine. But don't even think that you have enough perspective on the situation to challenge the fandom of those who don't agree that the Twins are the team that all Sox fans should hat the most.

I think a good number of the posters on this site are somewhere between 20 and 30. So for most of us, the first WS (hell, the first pennant) we remember the Yankees winning wasn't until 1996. By then the 3-division format was already in place and they had nothing to do with how bad the Sox were playing. It's hard to develop a hatred of a team you only face 3-6 times a year...

pinwheels3530
10-07-2004, 11:48 AM
Screw them both!!! .....I am rooting for the NL this year go Card and Astros!!!!

Iwritecode
10-07-2004, 11:50 AM
I am not a fan of the Yankees as a team but I can tell you that I would do the exact same thing as Steinbrenner if I were in his shoes. If anyone says differently then they are flat lying.

If you were an owner and had $300M in revenue per year from all of your team "sources" such as attendance, concessions, marketing, television, etc.., would you not spend $180M on payroll, win countless championships, make a very nice profit, be revered as a hero in your city (which, by the way, is the largest city in the U.S.)? I sure would.:cool:

Agreed. :D:


How many people would be complaining if JR did this for the Sox? I know I sure wouldn't...

Nellie_Fox
10-07-2004, 11:51 AM
I think a good number of the posters on this site are somewhere between 20 and 30. So for most of us, the first WS (hell, the first pennant) we remember the Yankees winning wasn't until 1996. By then the 3-division format was already in place and they had nothing to do with how bad the Sox were playing. It's hard to develop a hatred of a team you only face 3-6 times a year...I'm not arguing with those who want to hate the Twins more. I'm not saying they should hate the Yankees. Root for whomever you wish.

I just take exception to someone with no memory of baseball before Frank Thomas criticizing people for hating the Yankees more than the Twins. The Twins are but a blip on my radar screen.

SOXSINCE'70
10-07-2004, 12:39 PM
I'm shocked that anyone calling themselves a White Sox fan would cheer for the Twins in this series.

Simply put, a Twins world series means more income for the Twins, means a stronger Twins team. Call the Yankees what you want, the Yankees are not in the division, the Yankees have not been keeping us out of the playoffs for three years.
They are the 3 most painful words a Sox fan can utter,
but I must say them,for a Twins victory means a stronger team,
as you mentioned:

LET'S GO YANKEES!!!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

hose
10-07-2004, 12:40 PM
I'm not a Yankee hater but I sure do hate the Twins. With drill rods like Hunter and ex-Twins Peizenkonwowski, Meincavits, LaToya Hawkins still shooting their mouths off I don't think my hatred will die.

The only Twins I like are Gardenheimer , LeCroy, and Stewart.

Fawluqawhead is good guy.

The last NL team I pulled for in the WS was the '69 Mets, if the Twins make it this year then I'll pull for the NL team.

Paulwny
10-07-2004, 12:47 PM
To all those who are complaining about the Yankees and how much money they spend...

How many people remember the 80's when King George bought the team? The stadium was falling apart, the team was horrible and the attendance sucked.

George bought the team, used his OWN money to repair the staduim and did whatever it took to get the team back to the WS. Now he is enjoying the fruits of his labor.

Too bad we couldn't get an owner that cared about winning half as much as he does...



:reinsy

Spend my own money? Are you nuts???
Times have changed, King George now wants the taxpayers of NYC + NYS to come up with $500-$700 million for a new stadium. Its time for me to move.

"He who has the gold makes the rules."-- Armand Hammer

SomebodyToldMe
10-07-2004, 01:05 PM
Old George does what any one of us would do if we had the chance. He tries he damdest to make the dream team.

Hell, I've done it many a times in video games. :D:

Rocklive99
10-07-2004, 01:06 PM
I want the Yankees to win, but I think the Twins will take it (unless Gardenhire does another grady little impression, what was up with that?). That Yankee rotation just makes me cringe

idseer
10-07-2004, 02:49 PM
I'm not arguing with those who want to hate the Twins more. I'm not saying they should hate the Yankees. Root for whomever you wish.

I just take exception to someone with no memory of baseball before Frank Thomas criticizing people for hating the Yankees more than the Twins. The Twins are but a blip on my radar screen.i believe your words, true as can be, fall on deaf ears.

Mickster
10-07-2004, 02:59 PM
i believe your words, true as can be, fall on deaf ears.Are his words supposed to convince us to think like you? Everyone has opinions about which team they like or dislike for their own reasons. None are "right". Apparently my reasons for wanting the Yanks to win fall on your deaf ears as well....:tsk:

idseer
10-07-2004, 03:03 PM
Old George does what any one of us would do if we had the chance. He tries he damdest to make the dream team.

Hell, I've done it many a times in video games. :D:
ok. we GIVE you that george is playing by the rules. he also ignores what it does to the rest of the teams tho, doesn't he?

let's say you make a lot of money with an organization yet you keep asking for and getting raises. then at some point your boss goes out of business because YOU make too much money .......... just how wise were you?
perfectly within your right to ask for more money. perfectly natural for your boss to ignorantly give you your raises. nobody did anything illegal. yet ... now you're out of a job.
my point being, if what george does distorts the whole system and you end up with teams that cannot possibly compete and they eventually have to fold, how good is that for the game? it may be great for the yankees, but it ignores the problem that the whole structure (of which the yankees are a part) has when things are this much out of balance. and THAT is what most people mean when they say george is ruining the game.
george is out for his own pocket and doesn't give a damn how it affects anyone else.

some of you want to keep praising him and wish the sox could do the same? that's fine. just don't try to convince those of us that see beyond our own noses to agree with you tho.
speaking of noses, there's an old saying. .... "to cut off your nose to spite your face" it's true.

Mickster
10-07-2004, 03:13 PM
ok. we GIVE you that george is playing by the rules. he also ignores what it does to the rest of the teams tho, doesn't he?
There are 30 teams in MLB wih a minimum of 30 owners. If the teams themselves can not "police" the injustices of George's antics, and they themselves are getting "hurt" by his team's management (or mis-management if you prefer), then the owners have no one but themselves to blame.

We are generally talking about groups of millionaires, or billionaires in some cases. MLB came up with the luxury tax and if that isn't working, they will have to come up with some other sort of arrangement, if that is, the owners of the 29 other teams push the issue.

minastirith67
10-07-2004, 03:32 PM
We are generally talking about groups of millionaires, or billionaires in some cases. MLB came up with the luxury tax and if that isn't working, they will have to come up with some other sort of arrangement, if that is, the owners of the 29 other teams push the issue.
Naw. The luxury tax shouldn't be there anyway. I am absolutely content to see Steinbrenner spend so much on his franchise. I wish teams would follow his lead, instead of complaining about him.

Nellie_Fox
10-07-2004, 03:50 PM
Naw. The luxury tax shouldn't be there anyway. I am absolutely content to see Steinbrenner spend so much on his franchise. I wish teams would follow his lead, instead of complaining about him.If the other teams followed his lead, player salaries would escalate even faster.

In your world, the players aren't making enough money. Interesting.

Mickster
10-07-2004, 03:58 PM
If the other teams followed his lead, player salaries would escalate even faster.

In your world, the players aren't making enough money. Interesting.Nellie,

The system is clearly imperfect. Something has to change, but it must from within. I fear that when the current CB agreement expires in 2006, something will and it will result in a lockout. My point in this is simple. Millionaire/Billionaire owners v. Millionaire players. There is literally billions of dollars going through MLB each and every year. If the owners don't give a darn about George and his spending habbits, why should we? The other owners are ultimately the ones being hurt. One could argue that the casual fan is being hurt but that is for a different thread....

minastirith67
10-07-2004, 04:55 PM
If the other teams followed his lead, player salaries would escalate even faster.

In your world, the players aren't making enough money. Interesting.
In the ideal world, players would make as much as the market allowed. I don't like price constraints in the world economy, and I similarly don't like price constraints on the MLB market.

idseer
10-07-2004, 05:01 PM
In the ideal world, players would make as much as the market allowed. I don't like price constraints in the world economy, and I similarly don't like price constraints on the MLB market.
do you even know what the word escalation means? in your world the price of a ticket could be $1,000 in a few years and according to you that should be no problem.

minastirith67
10-07-2004, 08:53 PM
do you even know what the word escalation means? in your world the price of a ticket could be $1,000 in a few years and according to you that should be no problem.

If you had any idea of simple economics, you'd know that the market wouldn't allow for tickets to be sold at $1000 on average as the owners would never make money at such a price. The owners ideally would price their tickets at the point where demand and supply converge on the chart. The owners gotta make money somehow, and these curves tell them where maximum profits are to be had.

If the market would allow for $1000, I'd certainly have no problem, especially if inflation caused that. The amount of dollars is relative.

idseer
10-07-2004, 09:06 PM
obviously, my point went ... :duck:

minastirith67
10-07-2004, 09:49 PM
obviously, my point went ... :duck:

Escalation would happen in accordance with the market, and if the market allowed for $1000 tickets, then that is what we would get. Since it doesn't at this point, we're stuck with the $20-40 or whatever it currently is. You should read PHG's post in the Sox Clubhouse concerning economics. While he is referring to beer prices, the same logic also applies to ticket prices. Price escalation is at the dictate of the market and the supply and demand curves.

idseer
10-07-2004, 09:50 PM
:duck:

minastirith67
10-07-2004, 09:57 PM
:duck:

Instead of an icon, would you care to elaborate?

1951Campbell
10-07-2004, 10:56 PM
i don't understand. it's a natural progression, like, when your highschool basketball team drops out of the local tourney you tend to root for other local schools don't you?
doesn't it go something like .... self, family, street, neighborhood, town, county, state, country, world, solar system, milky way, local group?
i feel loyalty to the a l central division, whether it was cleveland, detroit or kc.
I felt that way as a kid. AL and NFC all the way.

But now...I just can't go for the Injuns, or the Cowboys.

Strangely, I'd rather see the Bears win the Super Bowl more than any other team in the NFL besides America's team, the Pack. Know why? Because the Packers, Bears, and Lions are the keepers of the torch as far as real football is concerned. Actually, wait...it's just Bears and Packers. Outdoor stadium on grass, way up north, way cold.

Don't get me wrong, the Bears still suck and all...:D:

Actually, the Bears winning the Super Bowl has proved to be very painful. What was I thining? :D:

SomebodyToldMe
10-08-2004, 01:56 PM
I felt that way as a kid. AL and NFC all the way.

But now...I just can't go for the Injuns, or the Cowboys.

Strangely, I'd rather see the Bears win the Super Bowl more than any other team in the NFL besides America's team, the Pack. Know why? Because the Packers, Bears, and Lions are the keepers of the torch as far as real football is concerned. Actually, wait...it's just Bears and Packers. Outdoor stadium on grass, way up north, way cold.

Don't get me wrong, the Bears still suck and all...:D:

Actually, the Bears winning the Super Bowl has proved to be very painful. What was I thining? :D:
How dare you take a cheap shot at my Lions!