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View Full Version : Sox unlikely to resign Valentin & Schoeneweis...


Aidan
10-04-2004, 03:24 AM
"Sox face offseason changes
Valentin, Schoeneweis could be among departing"
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20041003&content_id=881153&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

SSN721
10-04-2004, 05:47 AM
What a shame, I am all broken up over here. :whiner: (the face should be considered teal as well)

faneidde
10-04-2004, 07:06 AM
:threadrules:

ma_deuce
10-04-2004, 09:00 AM
:manos

"What? Just 'cause I suck I'm not getting resigned?!?! What a rip!"

CubKilla
10-04-2004, 09:43 AM
Welcome to the Harris and Uribe Show :angry:

Kogs35
10-04-2004, 09:47 AM
Welcome to the Harris and Uribe Show :angry:
harris is gone if they dont sign a ss valdez at short and uribe at second

JoseCanseco6969
10-04-2004, 11:31 AM
"Sox face offseason changes
Valentin, Schoeneweis could be among departing"
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20041003&content_id=881153&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp
OH NO! WE ARE SCREWED! Well at least we have 2006

Dick Allen
10-04-2004, 11:36 AM
As much as Valentin has sucked lately, he gave us some good years. Especially considering we got him for Jaime Navarro.

daveeym
10-04-2004, 12:03 PM
As much as Valentin has sucked lately, he gave us some good years. Especially considering we got him for Jaime Navarro. Agreed, we don't need him but he did give us some good years and was a good guy. Scho on the otherhand would fit in pefectly with the whiney bunch on the north side.

jshanahanjr
10-04-2004, 12:04 PM
Best of luck to Jose! He is a Cub Killer and passed it on to his brother.:bandance:

Lip Man 1
10-04-2004, 12:06 PM
Did anybody notice the story today where the writer said that based on talking to members of the organization Takatsu is NOT expected to be the closer next season...the story says he is expected to be part of a closer by committee approach.

As the Red Sox showed in 2003 that doesn't work very well.

Lip

Brian26
10-04-2004, 12:13 PM
Did anybody notice the story today where the writer said that based on talking to members of the organization Takatsu is NOT expected to be the closer next season...the story says he is expected to be part of a closer by committee approach.

As the Red Sox showed in 2003 that doesn't work very well.

Lip

Depending on if KW can pick up a good starter in the offseason, I'm still making a prediction (based on some hints thrown around earlier in the year), that Jose Contreras will be our closer next year. Sounds crazy, I know...especially based on his tendency to give up walks like they're Halloween candy, but I think this is KW's master plan.

hold2dibber
10-04-2004, 12:45 PM
harris is gone if they dont sign a ss valdez at short and uribe at second
Are you just guessing, or do you have some reason to specific info that makes you think this is true? I for one am far from being convinced that Valdez is a better option than Harris - I think Harris had better minor league numbers and while Harris didn't have a great year, he wasn't terrible (particularly against right handed pitching). Simply handing the SS job to Valdez would be, IMHO, a big mistake.

AddisonStSox
10-04-2004, 01:03 PM
Did anybody notice the story today where the writer said that based on talking to members of the organization Takatsu is NOT expected to be the closer next season...the story says he is expected to be part of a closer by committee approach.

As the Red Sox showed in 2003 that doesn't work very well.

Lip

As the 2004 Houston Astros have shown, it can work. Comittees breed competition and competition is a great motivator. Lidge won their committee over and he has been a shut-down closer ever since.

LVSoxFan
10-04-2004, 01:15 PM
As the 2004 Houston Astros have shown, it can work. Comittees breed competition and competition is a great motivator. Lidge won their committee over and he has been a shut-down closer ever since.
I think he's great, but my baseball expert friends have been saying for a long time that Shingo is a setup guy--we need a closer. I haven't seen Shingo blow more than, what? Two, three saves all year? So I'm not sure what they mean by this.

gosox41
10-04-2004, 01:22 PM
Did anybody notice the story today where the writer said that based on talking to members of the organization Takatsu is NOT expected to be the closer next season...the story says he is expected to be part of a closer by committee approach.

As the Red Sox showed in 2003 that doesn't work very well.

Lip
They do work if you don't have a bunch of mentally challenged pitchers who choke in the 9th inning a la Latroy Hawkins.

The Red Sox almost got to the Series last year with a closer by committee. Of course they went out and strenghtened their bullpen by getting a stud reliever in Foulke who helps a ton.


Bob

AddisonStSox
10-04-2004, 01:25 PM
I think its Shingo's spot to lose. He has shown me enough this year to at least TRY and establish himself as a closer next year. Yeah, well, he has shown me enough...doesn't mean he has shown Ozzie or KW enough.

----------
In Loving Memory
Sports Celebrity Look Alike

Jjav829
10-04-2004, 01:31 PM
As the 2004 Houston Astros have shown, it can work. Comittees breed competition and competition is a great motivator. Lidge won their committee over and he has been a shut-down closer ever since.
Huh? The Astros never had a closer by committee. Dotel was the closer when the season started. Lidge took over once Dotel was traded. There was never a closer by committee.

AddisonStSox
10-04-2004, 01:32 PM
Your telling me those were the only two brought in to close games this year? No.

soxtalker
10-04-2004, 01:33 PM
I think he's great, but my baseball expert friends have been saying for a long time that Shingo is a setup guy--we need a closer. I haven't seen Shingo blow more than, what? Two, three saves all year? So I'm not sure what they mean by this.

It seems like there have been many people who have doubted Shingo's ability to close -- both in the organization and outside of it. From the very beginning, many people afforded his Japanese statistics very little credibility in the US. Since he's been the closer, there have been the almost continuous comments that batters were going to "figure him out". Maybe so, but he sure has seemed to be able to get batters out consistently. He does let the batters put the ball in play, so there is the potential of fly balls landing in the seats. I just hope that the Sox don't decide that they won't give him the chance to continue because he doesn't fit the standard mold of a fastball/strike-out pitcher.

Having said that, it might not be a bad strategy to have a fastball pitcher or two surround him when he appears -- either within a game or a series.

kittle42
10-04-2004, 01:35 PM
As the 2004 Houston Astros have shown, it can work. Comittees breed competition and competition is a great motivator. Lidge won their committee over and he has been a shut-down closer ever since.
When were the 2004 Astros closer by committee? They started out with Dotel, who had 14 saves. Lidge took over immediately after Dotel was traded and had 29 saves. The team had 47 total, meaning only 4 were by the remainder of the pitching staff.

kittle42
10-04-2004, 01:36 PM
Your telling me those were the only two brought in to close games this year? No.
Generally, yes.

soxtalker
10-04-2004, 01:37 PM
"Sox face offseason changes
Valentin, Schoeneweis could be among departing"
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20041003&content_id=881153&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp


Maybe Valentin is gone. I keep wondering why he had so many appearances in September, though. If KW/OG had pretty much made up their minds that Valentin wasn't going to be back, why not play Valdez as much as possible. He played a lot, but so did Valentin. Even if they weren't sold on Valdez, there wasn't much more that they could learn about Valentin. Just makes me think that they may indeed be thinking of bringing him back -- for the right price.

Jjav829
10-04-2004, 01:37 PM
Your telling me those were the only two brought in to close games this year? No.
Define "close games". If you are talking about relief pitching in general, then of course not. But the only two who had the closers job in Houston this year were Octavio Dotel and Brad Lidge. Wagner closed games last year with Dotel his primary setup man. Lidge was the 3rd man out but he continued to progress into a good reliever. In the offseason the Astros decided that Dotel would do fine as a closer with Lidge setting him up. That's why they traded Wagner to clear some money so that they could pursue Pettitte. Dotel entered the season as the closer. He did a decent job but they started to see some things they didn't like with Dotel. They then decided to pursue Beltran to help a then struggling offense. The best way to acquire Beltran was a 3 way deal where they would send Dotel to Oakland. They did so knowing that Lidge could be their closer but they knew their middle relief would be a little shakier.

AddisonStSox
10-04-2004, 01:42 PM
I'm familiar with the trade, thank you. IIRC Miceli, and some others, were brought in to close games, right around the time that trade was made and Jimy started losing control of the ship. Whatever, I see what your saying and basicly agree.:wink:

Jjav829
10-04-2004, 01:47 PM
I'm familiar with the trade, thank you. IIRC Miceli, and some others, were brought in to close games, right around the time that trade was made and Jimy started losing control of the ship. Whatever, I see what your saying and basicly agree.:wink:Ok but Miceli was brought in as a middle reliever, and he was brought in before the season. The Astros brought in Miceli to be what he is - a middle reliever. Nothing more. The fact that he recorded 2 saves on the year does not mean he was brought in to be part of a closer by committee.

AddisonStSox
10-04-2004, 01:49 PM
Ok but Miceli was brought in as a closer, and he was brought in before the season. The Astros brought in Miceli to be what he is - a middle reliever.
Huh???:?: Sorry I don't follow.

Jjav829
10-04-2004, 01:51 PM
Huh???:?: Sorry I don't follow.
Err that should read. "Miceli was brought in as a middle reliever." My bad. :smile:

cburns
10-04-2004, 02:05 PM
Id like to see Jose on the bench...granted he takes a massive pay cut

SomebodyToldMe
10-04-2004, 02:06 PM
:hijacked:
No one's put that yet?


See ya, Valentin! Ok. Hopefully I won't.

Same for you, Blowenweis.

hold2dibber
10-04-2004, 02:06 PM
Maybe Valentin is gone. I keep wondering why he had so many appearances in September, though. If KW/OG had pretty much made up their minds that Valentin wasn't going to be back, why not play Valdez as much as possible. He played a lot, but so did Valentin. Even if they weren't sold on Valdez, there wasn't much more that they could learn about Valentin. Just makes me think that they may indeed be thinking of bringing him back -- for the right price.
I have repeatedly heard that Valentin really, really wanted to reach 30 HRs for the season (which I don't believe he's ever done before). In appreciation for what he's done for the team over the last five years and simply because Ozzie is a player's manager, he played him enough to give him a shot at it. I think that's the only reason Valentin continued to play.

JoseCanseco6969
10-04-2004, 02:14 PM
I think he's great, but my baseball expert friends have been saying for a long time that Shingo is a setup guy--we need a closer. I haven't seen Shingo blow more than, what? Two, three saves all year? So I'm not sure what they mean by this.
I believe he actually only blew one save against the Indians. He lost 2 games in non save situations when the game was tied if my memory serves right.

Rex Hudler
10-04-2004, 02:24 PM
Id like to see Jose on the bench...granted he takes a massive pay cut
I think Jose really believes he will be a starting SS for someone next year. I also think that he will end up getting a bench job somewhere and swallowing his pride.

Aidan
10-04-2004, 02:33 PM
I think Jose really believes he will be a starting SS for someone next year. I also think that he will end up getting a bench job somewhere and swallowing his pride.If the Angels don't resign David Eckstein, I could see them signing Valentin to be their starting SS. That is, of course, if they don't go after Nomar, Renteria, or Cabrera.

Flight #24
10-04-2004, 03:38 PM
As much as Valentin has sucked lately, he gave us some good years. Especially considering we got him for Jaime Navarro.
So in a sense, Jose's contribution is doubly significant. His on-field contribution, and the fact that having him meant no Jai-me.

PatK
10-04-2004, 03:42 PM
Shingo blew only 1 save this year.

And it was at a game against Cleveland that I was at. And it was the first time I got to see him pitch at a game.

I was so psyched for it, and the blew it. Then the next day, he went out and got them win.

That's my luck.

longshot7
10-04-2004, 04:14 PM
Define "close games". If you are talking about relief pitching in general, then of course not. But the only two who had the closers job in Houston this year were Octavio Dotel and Brad Lidge. Wagner closed games last year with Dotel his primary setup man. Lidge was the 3rd man out but he continued to progress into a good reliever. In the offseason the Astros decided that Dotel would do fine as a closer with Lidge setting him up. That's why they traded Wagner to clear some money so that they could pursue Pettitte. Dotel entered the season as the closer. He did a decent job but they started to see some things they didn't like with Dotel. They then decided to pursue Beltran to help a then struggling offense. The best way to acquire Beltran was a 3 way deal where they would send Dotel to Oakland. They did so knowing that Lidge could be their closer but they knew their middle relief would be a little shakier.
he meant "close" - as in "close the door." Not "close" - as in "wheww, that game was close."