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Petch
10-03-2004, 06:10 PM
A lot of difficult decisions need to be made this offseason. If you were making the calls, what deals would you look for and what would our lineup and rotation look like in 2005?

chisoxmike
10-03-2004, 07:23 PM
I think a realistic lineup could look like this :

1. Harris 2B
2. Rowand CF
3. Lee LF
4. Konerko 1B
5. Thomas DH
6. Uribe SS
7. Burke C
8.Borchard RF(Or a RF through a trade/or FA pick up,my best bet is Borchard :whiner:
9. Crede 3B (As much as I would like to see Crede traded, it won't happen.

Pitching

1. Buehrle
2. Garcia
3. Contreras
4. Garland
5. Grilli or pick up

PaleHoseGeorge
10-03-2004, 07:27 PM
I think a realistic lineup could look like this :

1. Harris 2B
2. Rowand CF
3. Lee LF
4. Konerko 1B
5. Thomas DH
6. Uribe SS
7. Burke C
8.Borchard RF(Or a RF through a trade/or FA pick up,my best bet is Borchard :whiner:
9. Crede 3B (As much as I would like to see Crede traded, it won't happen.

Pitching

1. Buehrle
2. Garcia
3. Contreras
4. Garland
5. Grilli or pick up
That team loses 85 games minimum. Probably good enough for third-place in the A.L. Norris Division, too.

Pea-Pod
10-03-2004, 07:28 PM
what do u think about getting jermain dye for right field?

chisoxmike
10-03-2004, 07:38 PM
That team loses 85 games minimum. Probably good enough for third-place in the A.L. Norris Division, too.

You're probably right. The Twins will still be in the running for 1st, and the Indians and Tigers will get better this offseason... we could be entering a dark age for our Sox.

hose
10-03-2004, 07:43 PM
I would like to see the Sox pick up a #1 starter, a closer, and a second baseman that could also lead off. In order to make this happen I would imagine that Konerko's $8 million would have to be traded. Carlos Lee could be projected as the teams DH in 2006

1B- Gload
2B- Hairston
SS- Uribe
3B- Crede
LF- Lee
CF- Rowand
RF- Everet/ Timo
C- Davis/ Burke
DH- Big Hurt

SP- Pavano
SP- Buehrle
SP- Freddy
SP- Contresas
SP- Garland

Middle-Adkins
Middle-Cotts
Bridge-Politte
Bridge-Marte
Set up- Shingo
Closer - Percival

Pea-Pod
10-03-2004, 08:00 PM
and a second baseman that could also lead off


What's wrong with willie?

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2004, 08:08 PM
I think a realistic lineup could look like this :

1. Harris 2B
2. Rowand CF
3. Lee LF
4. Konerko 1B
5. Thomas DH
6. Uribe SS
7. Burke C
8.Borchard RF(Or a RF through a trade/or FA pick up,my best bet is Borchard :whiner:
9. Crede 3B (As much as I would like to see Crede traded, it won't happen.

Pitching

1. Buehrle
2. Garcia
3. Contreras
4. Garland
5. Grilli or pick upThere's only one problem with this lineup. It's pretty much the same as THIS year's lineup. But realistically, they're not that far away. The 2004 version won 83 games. With another 10-12 wins, they're right there.

Starting pitching: Buehrle won 16 this year. Garcia won 9 in 16 starts for the Sox, which projects to 18 wins over a whole season. Contreras and Garland combined for 25 wins. They might do worse, but they might do better. If we just project no change, that's 59 wins. If they can add a starter capable of winning 16 games, that's 75 wins from the starting rotation, which would put them among the top teams in MLB. This is, obviously, the #1 priority.

Bullpen: Politte is a serviceable middle reliever. I have the feeling the AL is catching on to Takatsu. Marte had an off-year, but what will he do in 2005? After that it's pretty thin. They need at least one solid reliever. Two would be better. #2 priority.

Positions: They need a solid leadoff hitter, and I don't care what position he plays. Just get one. #3 priority.

It's possible (probable) that the Sox will need to trade either Lee or Konerko to make payroll room to do the above. Other players could be part of the package. Please don't harangue me with a lot of hand wringing about how they could just add $20M in payroll. They won't. Maybe a few million, but no additional big money. Deal with it.

IMO, these three changes, with a healthy (and productive) Frank Thomas, will be enough to get the Sox those extra 12 wins.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 08:36 PM
My optimistic but possible 2005 opening day lineup (what I'd like to see):
1. Harris 2B (Hopefully he can learn to steal bases)
2. Rowand CF (Breakout season, finally proved himself. Has power and speed)
3. Lee LF (Had a monster year; didn't make a single error in left.)
4. Konerko 1B (In the prime of his career: 41 HR 117 RBI)
5. Thomas DH (Hopefully he can still give you 25 HR 85 RBI)
6. Uribe SS (A solid #6 man with a little power)
7. Randa 3B (Free agent who kills the Sox...reminds me of Ventura)
8. Perez RF (better on defense than Gload, but this is workable)
9. Burke C (Should take right up where MO left off, only without the arm)

Rotation (in no particular order)
Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Russ Ortiz, Garland

I'd like to give Garland another chance to grow up. The talent is there, and I think as soon as he matures mentally he'll become consistent. He will have an easier time doing that as a fifth starter than with the pressure of having to be an effective 3rd man.

If signing both Ortiz and Randa together would not be possible, then maybe we don't sign Ortiz, but package Crede, Borchard and maybe a minor leaguer for a starter.

MRKARNO
10-03-2004, 08:46 PM
Thomas 5th in the lineup? If he's going the way he had been before he got injured this year, then he should be the 3 hitter IMO.

DumpJerry
10-03-2004, 09:06 PM
The only three I am sure of playing for us on opening day are Buehrle, Rowand and Thomas. Right now we cannot predict who else will be here. When looking at our other position players who will most likely be here, we need to keep in mind that every now and then, a few players in the league seem to get it in the off-season and come back and play like they are possessed. Thing is, we cannot predict who, if anyone, will do this for us next year. Each spring we seem to think Garland will do it.

Either Konerko or C. Lee will be traded, I'm confident of that. I hope it is Paulie, he is less versatile than Lee (hope other GM's aren't reading this!). Either guy will command a return of some good talent in a trade.

So, let's sit back and see what JR allows KW to do.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 09:19 PM
Thomas 5th in the lineup? If he's going the way he had been before he got injured this year, then he should be the 3 hitter IMO.Only because Lee and Konerko put up Thomas-in-'93 type numbers combined.

Petch
10-03-2004, 09:30 PM
Offseason, we either resign maggs or go after Beltran. Also, we look to Clement (I hate the Cubs, but this kid can pitch). Also, I would like to see us pick up another middle infielder who can start. Then, we can start Uribe at 3rd, and a combination of Willie and the other guy at second and short. Crede is killing me. We would probably have to let Paulie go, but you could start Gload at first, or even, dare I say it, Thomas. I like the way that looks.

MRKARNO
10-03-2004, 09:36 PM
Only because Lee and Konerko put up Thomas-in-'93 type numbers combined.
Well Thomas had an OBP of .426 in 1993 and an OBP of .487 in the 1994 season. Lee and Konerko's OBP were both around .360. Thomas usually sees among the most pitches per at bat of any hitter in the majors. Lee and Konerko do not. Pitchers fear Thomas so much that they pitch around him all the time and the hitter in front of him does better than they normally would because no one wants to walk anyone in front of THomas. Lee and Konerko do not provoke the same fear. If Thomas is healthy I would expect another 40 homer season.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 10:30 PM
Well Thomas had an OBP of .426 in 1993 and an OBP of .487 in the 1994 season. Lee and Konerko's OBP were both around .360. Thomas usually sees among the most pitches per at bat of any hitter in the majors. Lee and Konerko do not. Pitchers fear Thomas so much that they pitch around him all the time and the hitter in front of him does better than they normally would because no one wants to walk anyone in front of THomas. Lee and Konerko do not provoke the same fear. If Thomas is healthy I would expect another 40 homer season.I'd love that. And if it appears that he's on that pace, then fine, he can hit 3rd again. But as it stands, I like what I have there.

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2004, 10:41 PM
Well Thomas had an OBP of .426 in 1993 and an OBP of .487 in the 1994 season. Lee and Konerko's OBP were both around .360. Thomas usually sees among the most pitches per at bat of any hitter in the majors. Lee and Konerko do not. Pitchers fear Thomas so much that they pitch around him all the time and the hitter in front of him does better than they normally would because no one wants to walk anyone in front of THomas. Lee and Konerko do not provoke the same fear. If Thomas is healthy I would expect another 40 homer season.I agree with you in principle, but there's another reason to move Thomas down in the order, and that's because he's so S-L-O-W. I'd rather not have him hitting ahead of a faster runner. Put him ahead of Konerko, though.

MRKARNO
10-03-2004, 10:46 PM
I agree with you in principle, but there's another reason to move Thomas down in the order, and that's because he's so S-L-O-W. I'd rather not have him hitting ahead of a faster runner. Put him ahead of Konerko, though.
I would hope that a difference of 70 points in OBP would trump any speed issue, but 4th in the lineup is reasonable, but 5th is just ludicrous. Thomas is no Sammy Sosa. Thomas's best years still might be ahead of him, you never know. Just look at Bonds, his best year came in his age 37 season, where Thomas will be next year.

cornball
10-04-2004, 10:47 AM
My optimistic but possible 2005 opening day lineup (what I'd like to see):
1. Harris 2B (Hopefully he can learn to steal bases)
2. Rowand CF (Breakout season, finally proved himself. Has power and speed)
3. Lee LF (Had a monster year; didn't make a single error in left.)
4. Konerko 1B (In the prime of his career: 41 HR 117 RBI)
5. Thomas DH (Hopefully he can still give you 25 HR 85 RBI)
6. Uribe SS (A solid #6 man with a little power)
7. Randa 3B (Free agent who kills the Sox...reminds me of Ventura)
8. Perez RF (better on defense than Gload, but this is workable)
9. Burke C (Should take right up where MO left off, only without the arm)

Rotation (in no particular order)
Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Russ Ortiz, Garland

I'd like to give Garland another chance to grow up. The talent is there, and I think as soon as he matures mentally he'll become consistent. He will have an easier time doing that as a fifth starter than with the pressure of having to be an effective 3rd man.

If signing both Ortiz and Randa together would not be possible, then maybe we don't sign Ortiz, but package Crede, Borchard and maybe a minor leaguer for a starter.

I think the 2005 team will have several new faces. For sure at SS, an outfielder, starting staff and possibly catcher.

If I was guessing.

1st Kornerko will be traded
2nd Uribe
SS NEW PLAYER, my guess is Visquel
3rd Crede
LF Lee
CF NEW PLAYER
RF Rowand
C Burke/?

Staff will consist of Beuhrle, Garcia, Garland, Contreras and ??.

I hope the Sox are agressive in the FA market to address some of these wholes. Much depends on the budget. I think Beltran is a pipe dream at this point and will be too much money for the Sox. The Sox need to sign an impact player of this type to generate excitement, IMHO, to get a jump on season tix sales and to show the fans management wants to win.

I like the fact that Ozzie and KW have identified pitching as a huge need. We will see.

akingamongstmen
10-04-2004, 10:50 AM
My optimistic but possible 2005 opening day lineup (what I'd like to see):
1. Harris 2B (Hopefully he can learn to steal bases)
2. Rowand CF (Breakout season, finally proved himself. Has power and speed)
3. Lee LF (Had a monster year; didn't make a single error in left.)
4. Konerko 1B (In the prime of his career: 41 HR 117 RBI)
5. Thomas DH (Hopefully he can still give you 25 HR 85 RBI)
6. Uribe SS (A solid #6 man with a little power)
7. Randa 3B (Free agent who kills the Sox...reminds me of Ventura)
8. Perez RF (better on defense than Gload, but this is workable)
9. Burke C (Should take right up where MO left off, only without the arm)

Rotation (in no particular order)
Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Russ Ortiz, Garland

I'd like to give Garland another chance to grow up. The talent is there, and I think as soon as he matures mentally he'll become consistent. He will have an easier time doing that as a fifth starter than with the pressure of having to be an effective 3rd man.

If signing both Ortiz and Randa together would not be possible, then maybe we don't sign Ortiz, but package Crede, Borchard and maybe a minor leaguer for a starter.Like it or not, our starting RF will be Jurassic Carl.

I also think we'll see another season of Joe Crede at 3B, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. He's an above-average defender with power potential. If we can afford to hit him 8th or 9th, then he's fine (plus, he's CHEAP). I think the rest of the lineup that you've listed will be fine. Which brings me to the most gaping holes:

1) We have to get a 5th starter...or a 3rd starter...or an "Ace." Doesn't really matter. We just need another MAJOR LEAGUE pitcher. If Grilli is in our rotation next season, we're in big trouble.

2) Our bullpen needs a serious upgrade. I love Shingo. He's great. However, I don't want to see him as a closer next year. He had a heavy workload this season, and I fear that he's been overexposed to the rest of the league. Marte and Politte are fine. Basically, we desperately need a live arm out there.

With those improvements alone (and with an injury-free season), we might be better off next year than most people think.

gosox41
10-04-2004, 10:52 AM
You're probably right. The Twins will still be in the running for 1st, and the Indians and Tigers will get better this offseason... we could be entering a dark age for our Sox.

We've already entered the dark age for the Sox.


Bob