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Pea-Pod
10-03-2004, 04:35 PM
If we had to trade one of these guys, who would you trade?

Tragg
10-03-2004, 04:39 PM
Konerko

Pea-Pod
10-03-2004, 04:52 PM
i was leaning towards trading konerko as well, despite the fact that he puts up bigger numbers. But Carlos is far more consistent offensively:

his averages from 99-04 : .293, .301, .269, .264, .291, .307

his driving near 90-100 runs every year and he continues to improve defensively. and i think he's younger than konerko

the problem with konerko is that he has long and sporadic slumps.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2004, 04:55 PM
Konerko. He'll never hit 40 home runs in a season again and he can't run. That clogs up the bases. His trade value will never be higher then right now.

Lip

CarlosMay'sThumb
10-03-2004, 04:59 PM
Konerko.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Sox would get alot for a slow, inconsistent, right handed hitting first baseman. There's only, like, a million of them.

jshanahanjr
10-03-2004, 05:12 PM
I'd trade Carlos. I would think he would bring more in value because of speed and extra year on his contract. Love them both and hope they are here for a long time to come.

Soxzilla
10-03-2004, 05:19 PM
Konerko.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Sox would get alot for a slow, inconsistent, right handed hitting first baseman. There's only, like, a million of them.
Yeah, since so many 1st basemen hit 40 homeruns this year.:rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
10-03-2004, 05:33 PM
Konerko, no question. He is overpaid for his production and Lee would definitely bring more in trade, but that only indicates how much more valuable Lee is.

As a LFer, Lee has a good chance at extending his career by moving to 1B later in his career. He'll still be playing ball long after "Wheels" is using a walker.

Of course a team with as many roster holes as the Sox can't rule anything out. So if somebody offers the moon and stars for Lee (like an SP, leadoff man/CFer, and a minor league catcher), you move him.

Championship baseball ain't bean bag.
:cool:

Daver
10-03-2004, 05:42 PM
Neither one of them is going to bring a top starting pitcher, at this point I would lean towards take the deal that benefits the team the most. It's not a situation where you are going to get a lot of trade value for either of them.

Dibbs
10-03-2004, 05:43 PM
I would trade Lee...who would we put at 1st?....Gload??? God I hope not.

Daver
10-03-2004, 05:46 PM
I would trade Lee...who would we put at 1st?....Gload??? God I hope not.
There is this guy that plays for the White Sox that used to play a little first base.

I think his name is Frank Thomas.

TornLabrum
10-03-2004, 05:48 PM
There is this guy that plays for the White Sox that used to play a little first base.

I think his name is Frank Thomas.
Yeah, but he'll be 67 years old in 2005.

HITMEN OF 77
10-03-2004, 06:15 PM
Is anyone else tired of hearing this Lee/Konerko stuff? I know I'am. I'd trade Lee, now can we stop bringing up these two names in the same post.

Pea-Pod
10-03-2004, 06:21 PM
and is frank gonna have the same problems bouncing back as he did when he got injured last time with the tricep. is he gonna lose weight? - if not, this ankle injury should persist.

MRKARNO
10-03-2004, 06:33 PM
and is frank gonna have the same problems bouncing back as he did when he got injured last time with the tricep. is he gonna lose weight? - if not, this ankle injury should persist.
First of all it was a stress fracture in the foot. Secondly, a foot fracture is not nearly as bad as tearing the tricep and it should not really affect him all that much going into next year. Expect a fully healthy Frank Thomas.

Jerome
10-03-2004, 06:41 PM
Konerko. His contract is too much for this payroll and he is probably at the highest trade value he will ever be at.

CarlosMay'sThumb
10-03-2004, 07:04 PM
Yeah, since so many 1st basemen hit 40 homeruns this year.:rolleyes:
2001 - 32 HR, 2002 - 27HR, 2003 -18 HR, 2004 - 41 HR.

Inconsistent. Care to bet millions of your money which Konerko will show up next year? Didn't think so.:D:

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2004, 08:27 PM
2001 - 32 HR, 2002 - 27HR, 2003 -18 HR, 2004 - 41 HR.

Inconsistent. Care to bet millions of your money which Konerko will show up next year? Didn't think so.:D:Didn't Konerko hurt his foot the last couple of months in 2002? He started the year like a house afire, but fell off the last couple of months because of it. Otherwise, he would have been over 30 HR that year, too. So except for one year, what we have is a guy who you can count on to hit around .280, with around 100 RBI and 30-40 HR. So he had a poor year in 2003. Is he the only player in history to have a poor year? Does that make him inconsistent?

kitekrazy
10-03-2004, 09:35 PM
Couldn't we just keep them and trade Reinsdorf instead?

If one of them is gone then how does the Sox manufacture runs when the pitching staff will give up at least 4 runs a game?

Age will eventually catch up with Thomas.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 09:35 PM
Yeah, since so many 1st basemen hit 40 homeruns this year.:rolleyes::nod:
Post of the week.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 09:36 PM
Couldn't we just keep them and trade Reinsdorf instead?

If one of them is gone then how does the Sox manufacture runs when the pitching staff will give up at least 4 runs a game?

:nod:
Post of the week #2

ondafarm
10-03-2004, 09:37 PM
In my current glutton for punishment mode, I'd say trade both of them. Decent replacements are on the team for both and their trade values will never be higher.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 09:47 PM
In my current glutton for punishment mode, I'd say trade both of them. Decent replacements are on the team for both and their trade values will never be higher.Name these "decent replacements" who will replicate a .307 avg and a perfect LF or 41 HR and 117 RBI at first base.

MRKARNO
10-03-2004, 09:58 PM
Name these "decent replacements" who will replicate a .307 avg and a perfect LF or 41 HR and 117 RBI at first base.
Everett could play a decent OF until Brian Anderson is ready, which could be sooner rather than later. Joe Borchard still might turn out to be a decent ML player. He seems to have grown a bit in his stint with the White Sox. Part of his problem this year has been luck. Ross Gload could probably get on base at a decent clip, but I dont think he has enough power to be a fulltime-firstbasemen on this club. He could play outfield though too and if it meant a much better SP, I'd let him start. Alex Escobar could emerge in spring training as a viable option. I dont know that the replacements could replicate that (though Anderson probably could, just not immediately), but they might be more than passable and better than replacment value.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2004, 10:06 PM
Karno says: "Part of his problem this year has been luck."

Not attacking you but could you explain this comment more relative to Borchard?

Lip

MRKARNO
10-03-2004, 10:40 PM
Karno says: "Part of his problem this year has been luck."

Not attacking you but could you explain this comment more relative to Borchard?

Lip
He had a higher percentage seemingly than normal of hard-hit balls that were right at defenders towards the end. There's no question that on the whole he was pretty bad though. He's going to go to Winter Ball and maybe he can get it together there and come back and post a .250-.270 average with 30-35 homers next year with a .330 OBP.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 10:55 PM
Konerko, no question. He is overpaid for his production and Lee would definitely bring more in trade, but that only indicates how much more valuable Lee is.
:cool:Paul Konerko made $8,000,000 this year. He hit 41 HRs and had 117 RBI.
Alex Rodriguez made $21,726,881 this year. He hit 36 HR and had 106 RBI.

Now tell me that Konerko is "overpaid." It doesn't get a whole lot better than that for production, George.

MRKARNO
10-03-2004, 10:58 PM
Paul Konerko made $8,000,000 this year. He hit 41 HRs and had 117 RBI.
Alex Rodriguez made $21,726,881 this year. He hit 36 HR and had 106 RBI.

Now tell me that Konerko is "overpaid." It doesn't get a whole lot better than that for production, George.
Mark Teixeira hit 38 bombs and had 112 RBI this year and was paid 2,650,000 for it. Your point? If Konerko could repeat this, then he would be worth it, but seeing that this was a career year, it's risky to automatically assume that he'll repeat these numbers.

CarlosMay'sThumb
10-03-2004, 11:05 PM
Mark Teixeira hit 38 bombs and had 112 RBI this year and was paid 2,650,000 for it. Your point? If Konerko could repeat this, then he would be worth it, but seeing that this was a career year, it's risky to automatically assume that he'll repeat these numbers.Exactly.

Whitesox029
10-03-2004, 11:20 PM
Mark Teixeira hit 38 bombs and had 112 RBI this year and was paid 2,650,000 for it. Your point? If Konerko could repeat this, then he would be worth it, but seeing that this was a career year, it's risky to automatically assume that he'll repeat these numbers.
That may be, but why not give him a try, given his numbers from all years other than 2003? He did it once, who says he can't do it again?

Everett could play a decent OF until Brian Anderson is ready, which could be sooner rather than later. Joe Borchard still might turn out to be a decent ML player. He seems to have grown a bit in his stint with the White Sox. Part of his problem this year has been luck. Ross Gload could probably get on base at a decent clip, but I dont think he has enough power to be a fulltime-firstbasemen on this club. He could play outfield though too and if it meant a much better SP, I'd let him start. Alex Escobar could emerge in spring training as a viable option. I dont know that the replacements could replicate that (though Anderson probably could, just not immediately), but they might be more than passable and better than replacment value.You say asking Konerko for those same numbers is risky....what do you call this? Do you honestly think we will win so much as a second place finish with the Indians up and coming and Borchard and Everett in our outfield? Please.

HITMEN OF 77
10-04-2004, 12:03 AM
I can hear it now IF we trade Konerko. We should've kept Paulie, blah blah blah blah........There have been 2463 post and threads about this topic and NO ONE has found a replacement for Konerko's numbers. He had an off year a year ago, he still is averaging 30 HR a year. Enough already.

Aidan
10-04-2004, 12:37 AM
As much of I love Konerko, I'd rather trade him and keep Lee. Konerko is pretty much one dimensional -- he hits homers. Carlos is the better hitter, has some speed, and plays a tougher position. Ross Gload has surprised me and I would like to see what he can do full-time. He seems like a good hitter and plays a good first base. He also has some speed while Paulie has none. With the money we save on Konerko's salary, I would like to see us go after Carlos Beltran. Imagine an outfield of Lee / Beltran / Rowand! :o: Then they can spend whatever is left over on pitching.


2B Willie Harris
RF Aaron Rowand
CF Carlos Beltran
DH Frank Thomas
LF Carlos Lee
1B Ross Gload
SS Juan Uribe
3B Joe Crede
C Ben Davis


Carl Pavano
Mark Buehrle
Freddy Garcia
Jose Contreras
Jon Garland

jeremyb1
10-04-2004, 12:43 AM
It's a tough question because they're extremely similar players. They're both 28, they both make around 8 million next season, neither plays a weak position, both are coming off their best season, their value was virtually identical this season. Carlos runs a bit better and plays better defense but I think power and walks are a bit more consistent that average where most of Carlos' value lies. We're basically talking about the same player. If there's any substantial difference in their market value, I'd trade whichever fetches more in a deal.

Otherwise flip a coin. Hehe.

JB98
10-04-2004, 12:49 AM
I can't believe this topic continues to come up. To me, CLee, PK and Rowand are the only three healthy, productive, reliable position players we have on our roster. Yet we all seem convinced that either CLee or PK must go. If you all want to start 2005 with Everett in LF and/or Gload at 1B, be prepared to lose 90 games. Don't count on Frank and/or Maggs to come back and save the day. That's all I can say at this point.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-04-2004, 07:47 AM
Paul Konerko made $8,000,000 this year. He hit 41 HRs and had 117 RBI.
Alex Rodriguez made $21,726,881 this year. He hit 36 HR and had 106 RBI.

Now tell me that Konerko is "overpaid." It doesn't get a whole lot better than that for production, George.ARod is a shortstop putting up those numbers.
Konerko is a lumbering firstbasemen putting up those numbers.

You can find plenty of firstbasemen, lumbering or not, with power.
Shortstops with power are gold.
Konerko ain't work dick next to ARod.

Next question.

faneidde
10-04-2004, 09:45 AM
ARod is a shortstop putting up those numbers.
Konerko is a lumbering firstbasemen putting up those numbers.

You can find plenty of firstbasemen, lumbering or not, with power.
Shortstops with power are gold.
Konerko ain't work dick next to ARod.

Next question. Actually, the evil empire has issued an edict that Arod must play 3rd base henceforth.

Jurr
10-04-2004, 10:08 AM
Yeah, but he'll be 67 years old in 2005.
This is a funny post.

Jurr
10-04-2004, 10:11 AM
As much of I love Konerko, I'd rather trade him and keep Lee. Konerko is pretty much one dimensional -- he hits homers. Carlos is the better hitter, has some speed, and plays a tougher position. Ross Gload has surprised me and I would like to see what he can do full-time. He seems like a good hitter and plays a good first base. He also has some speed while Paulie has none. With the money we save on Konerko's salary, I would like to see us go after Carlos Beltran. Imagine an outfield of Lee / Beltran / Rowand! :o: Then they can spend whatever is left over on pitching.


2B Willie Harris
RF Aaron Rowand
CF Carlos Beltran
DH Frank Thomas
LF Carlos Lee
1B Ross Gload
SS Juan Uribe
3B Joe Crede
C Ben Davis


Carl Pavano
Mark Buehrle
Freddy Garcia
Jose Contreras
Jon Garland
I totally agree. If they could swing Pavano and Beltran. That's all....Beltran would be almost a salary swap with Maggs and Pavano could take Paulie's salary plus half of Jose's (the other chunk goes to another bullpen guy)..I think we'd be golden.

Frater Perdurabo
10-04-2004, 12:21 PM
Correction:


2B Willie Harris
RF Aaron Rowand
CF Carlos Beltran
DH Frank Thomas
LF Carlos Lee
1B Ross Gload
SS Juan Uribe
3B Joe Crede
C Ben Davis

Carl Pavano
Mark Buehrle
Freddy Garcia
Jose Contreras
Jon Garland

I'm not sarcastic when I say I want Pavano and Beltran, but I am pipedreaming. :o:

Anyway, I think it's doable if they land Beltran early. When Anderson is ready, Lee is expendable or can move to 1B, pushing Gload back to the bench. A 2006 OF could feature 3 guys capable of playing CF, helping the pitchers (especially Buehrle and Garcia) in a hitters' park like the Cell, to say nothing of the added hitting and speed. Also, Crede's 2004 could be like Konerko's 2003; Crede might hit .275 with 30+ homers and 30+ doubles in 2005, nearly replacing Konerko's 2004 production. Borchard (who I'm not convinced is finished) and Everett in 2005 would solidify the bench. This team would be favored to win the Central in 2005 and would compete long-term as well.
:bandance:

idseer
10-04-2004, 02:37 PM
If we had to trade one of these guys, who would you trade?
if we HAD to ... then i'd trade paul.
neither one of these guys can carry a team but both put up good numbers by years end. i don't think clee is very clutch, but he can do more than paul can and so has a bigger upside.
i really like paul but he's really best to have when you have 2 or 3 other guys in the order who can dominate.
BOTH these guys need a frank thomas kind of hitter in the lineup to be really successful. witness that they both had very very good years and yet the sox couldn't compete in the weakest division in the game.

also i could live with gload at 1st based on what he did this year. i can't live with carl in left ....... or anywhere else for that matter.

marlins03
10-04-2004, 03:26 PM
tough decision any one of those would look good in a marlins uniform :D:

wdelaney72
10-04-2004, 03:29 PM
Is anyone else tired of hearing this Lee/Konerko stuff? I know I'am. I'd trade Lee, now can we stop bringing up these two names in the same post.
If you don't like it, don't read it.

This was what we call a career year for Paulie. He does not feet the concept of defense and team speed. Frank Thomas is by default our station to station to runner. Besides, PK's defense is less than stellar (see Minnesota game early in the season).

In a perfect world we keep both, but in our reality, you have to give something up to get something. Also, Paulie's $8 million could be more wisely spent on a SP or a SS.

shagar69
10-04-2004, 03:32 PM
This team would be favored to win the Central in 2005 and would compete long-term as well.
:bandance: that doesnt mean jack.weve been favored to win the last 4 or 5 yrs.

kitekrazy
10-04-2004, 05:08 PM
Maybe the Sox will follow the Blackhawk's model and trade every decent player for ..........................DRAFT CHOICES and still make money with 5000 people attending every game.

Lip Man 1
10-04-2004, 06:17 PM
Well if Thomas has ankle fusion surgery and is finished they may keep both of them.

Lip

santo=dorf
10-04-2004, 06:38 PM
Maybe the Sox will follow the Blackhawk's model and trade every decent player for ..........................DRAFT CHOICES and still make money with 5000 people attending every game.
The last thing we need is for JR to act like Wirtz.

BTW, this is the color for sarcasm.

PavanoBeltran'05
10-04-2004, 06:42 PM
Well if Thomas has ankle fusion surgery and is finished they may keep both of them.

LipNo kidding. That surgery isn't good for athletes.

batmanZoSo
10-04-2004, 06:55 PM
Konerko.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Sox would get alot for a slow, inconsistent, right handed hitting first baseman. There's only, like, a million of them.


I believe that to be incorrect. He's under 30 and he hit 41-42 homers, he'd have many suitors.