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Dan H
10-03-2004, 09:07 AM
Injuries. Cub fans will point to them as one key factor in their team's inability to make the post season. It is true that they lost key players for long periods of time. But their injuries also exposed them. Sosa and Alou are talented players who don't know how to win. Kerry Wood couldn't stay healty enough and hasn't ever been able to stay healty enough to have a breakout season. Their bullpen is a mess.

There is no doubt that that losing Thomas and Ordonez hurt the Sox badly. But the Sox were exposed for having a weak starting rotation, a not-too-great bullpen and a porous defense. Their losing the division to the Twins was no fluke.

Unlike Cub fans who live a non-ending la-la land, we Sox fans should let the team management know that inaction in the off season will not be tolerated. For the past four years, the team has won between 81 and 86 games. That won't change with a few minor adjustments. Even though I cried no tears over the Cubs demise and choke, all Chicago baseball fans should be tired of the endless failures. Since 1959, Chicago has gone a combined 90 seasons without a World Series. Enough already.

hose
10-03-2004, 09:47 AM
The difference between the Sox and Cubs was that the Sox identified Koch as a disaster and moved him . The Cubs fooled themselves into thinking that LaToya could close out games and he failed miserably.

The Cubs inability to win 1 run games is also a reflection on their poor basic fundamentals and bad coaching. Besides having THE worse third base coach the Cubs were terrible at moving runners, sacrificing, hitting the cut off man, staying out of the double plays with hit&run or straight steals, holding runners on first, throwing out base stealers, working the count, blocking the ball by the catcher to avoid passballs/wild pitches, station to station base running.

Take away the Cubs starting pitching the Sox and Cubs are pretty much the same team.....16 inch softball teams.

Tragg
10-03-2004, 02:44 PM
Sosa and Alou are talented players who don't know how to win.
What are you talking about? Alou hit a 2 run homer in the first inning, in this incredibly important game today!

Pea-Pod
10-03-2004, 02:57 PM
Sox identified Koch as a disaster and moved him

The Cubs inability to win 1 run games is also a reflection on their poor basic fundamentals and bad coaching.

unfortunately , we let koch **** up way past the "beyond bad" threshold. he shouldve been moved a hell of alot sooner


yah, the cubs coaching is fundemantally poor. dusty baker is a "player's manager" a "people person" - that usually means they dont aggrivate the players by making them practice hitting the other way to get runners over.

SOXSINCE'70
10-03-2004, 05:33 PM
Injuries. Cub fans will point to them as one key factor in their team's inability to make the post season. It is true that they lost key players for long periods of time. But their injuries also exposed them. Sosa and Alou are talented players who don't know how to win. Kerry Wood couldn't stay healty enough and hasn't ever been able to stay healty enough to have a breakout season. Their bullpen is a mess.

There is no doubt that that losing Thomas and Ordonez hurt the Sox badly. But the Sox were exposed for having a weak starting rotation, a not-too-great bullpen and a porous defense. Their losing the division to the Twins was no fluke.

Unlike Cub fans who live a non-ending la-la land, we Sox fans should let the team management know that inaction in the off season will not be tolerated. For the past four years, the team has won between 81 and 86 games. That won't change with a few minor adjustments. Even though I cried no tears over the Cubs demise and choke, all Chicago baseball fans should be tired of the endless failures. Since 1959, Chicago has gone a combined 90 seasons without a World Series. Enough already.I'm only 42.God knows how much longer you have suffered,Dan.Loved your book,"Through Hope And Despair".I bought it from you at Soxfest 2002.You autographed it for me as well.Thanks.
The same characters can't hit the field in 2005.KW needs to add depth to his bullpen and infield.Can Ross Gload play every day and proudce?? I have a feeling we're going to find out.Konerko,Lee or both could be trade bait.
Many things have to change for this team to get to the WS.
Too bad Reinsdork can't be forced out of office a la Jerry Colangelo.

CarlosMay'sThumb
10-03-2004, 05:40 PM
I'm only 42.God knows how much longer you have suffered,Dan.Loved your book,"Through Hope And Despair".I bought it from you at Soxfest 2002.You autographed it for me as well.Thanks.
The same characters can't hit the field in 2005.KW needs to add depth to his bullpen and infield.Can Ross Gload play every day and proudce?? I have a feeling we're going to find out.Konerko,Lee or both could be trade bait.
Many things have to change for this team to get to the WS.
Too bad Reinsdork can't be forced out of office a la Jerry Colangelo.I don't understand the continued bashing of Reinsdorf. Sure, he's not the Tribune or Steinbrenner with unlimited resources. And yes, he made a huge mistake in '94. But the Sox spent more than any other team in their division and still had nothing to show for it. I think Williams has absolutely no direction. Maggs and Frank were on the teams in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and they still won nothing. The reason this team lost for a fourth straight year under Williams is because their pitching and defense sucks and they have no team speed.

Dan H
10-03-2004, 05:49 PM
I'm only 42.God knows how much longer you have suffered,Dan.Loved your book,"Through Hope And Despair".I bought it from you at Soxfest 2002.You autographed it for me as well.Thanks.
The same characters can't hit the field in 2005.KW needs to add depth to his bullpen and infield.Can Ross Gload play every day and proudce?? I have a feeling we're going to find out.Konerko,Lee or both could be trade bait.
Many things have to change for this team to get to the WS.
Too bad Reinsdork can't be forced out of office a la Jerry Colangelo.
I am glad you liked my book. You are right. The same players can be there for 2005 and we know that Ordonez won't be back. My preference for the first change is a starter. I think the rotation is still one big question mark.

I haven't suffered too much longer than you. It just seems that way.

Dan H
10-03-2004, 05:50 PM
What are you talking about? Alou hit a 2 run homer in the first inning, in this incredibly important game today!
I stand corrected.

GiveMeSox
10-03-2004, 06:56 PM
I don't understand the continued bashing of Reinsdorf. Sure, he's not the Tribune or Steinbrenner with unlimited resources. And yes, he made a huge mistake in '94. But the Sox spent more than any other team in their division and still had nothing to show for it. I think Williams has absolutely no direction. Maggs and Frank were on the teams in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and they still won nothing. The reason this team lost for a fourth straight year under Williams is because their pitching and defense sucks and they have no team speed.
Couldn't have said it better. Williams is the acrhitect of this team. A good GM puts together a winning team no matter what payroll. To saty comptetive you have to adjust according to budget, and in division competetion. The twins have won 3 division titles in a row it should have been obvious to KW what kind of team wins with a 50 to 60 mil budget. And its not one with lots of sluggers, no speed, no fundaments, no 5th starter, and no pen.

historian
10-04-2004, 01:25 AM
Their losing the division to the Twins was no fluke.
Hat's off to the Twins. They beat The Sox stright up.

The Cubs choaked on the WC by losing to The Mets and Reds. Not the Astros.

LVSoxFan
10-04-2004, 02:34 PM
I gotta agree that something's up with Williams. We had Mags and Frank last year and it didn't matter.

This team is so odd because you've got the big time players like Frank, Konerko or Mags admidst the promising-but players like Timo or Uribe and then the flat-out question marks like Crede.

So it's not a Yankees or Red Sox (or even Cubs) talent roster, but it's not a team-or-die force like Minnesota or St. Louis. We're apparently in the middle. Seeing that we're never going to have the budget like the Yankees/Red Sox, doesn't the answer sort of present itself which way to go?

People also forget that we need at least two RELIABLE starters. Buehrle's been the only consistent starter all year. Garland was ridiculous. There was no fifth starter, and Freddy was probably second best--as long he was playing a day game. Contreras was feast-or-famine.

If Minnesota can romp with the one/two punch of Santana and Radke, I'd think we'd follow that example. I hate to say it, but I would model the Sox after... well, the Twins.

PatK
10-04-2004, 04:46 PM
Radke is available in the off-season.

HomeFish
10-04-2004, 05:03 PM
Radke is available in the off-season.

And he won't be coming here. No free agent in his right mind will.

doublem23
10-04-2004, 05:54 PM
Moises Alou basically willed the 1997 Marlins to the championship. Should have been MVP.