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Milw
09-30-2004, 12:24 PM
http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=a674e06e-7dfa-4a2a-8684-5c2393e03c0f


The record will show that the death of the Expos did not have to be. It was not that long ago that baseball was a vibrant, thrilling presence in Montreal. It took years of bad management, neglect and worse from the commissioner's office, nonexistent marketing, an awful stadium and the loss of virtually all the team's best players to make this happen.

Tavares said yesterday that he could imagine baseball returning to Montreal in 30 years or so. The question is: Why would we want it? "I feel sad about the whole story, the way Montreal turned out. That's the best city I ever played in and my memories of the fans are incredible."

- Pedro Martinez, Red Sox ace and ex-Expohttp://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/idl/mtgz/20040930/264582-81895.jpg
Isabelle Belanger wipes away the tears of boyfriend Sebastien Potvin, shaken at the prospect of watching the Expos' final home game.


It may be a great day for Washington, but anytime a team leaves a city after 36 years, it's a sad day for baseball. :whiner:

SOXintheBURGH
09-30-2004, 12:45 PM
I wonder how Crazy Carl feels about Montreal.

jackbrohamer
09-30-2004, 12:47 PM
The way MLB & Selig handled the Expos situation is absolutely disgraceful. The franchise could have succeeded but Selig deilberately prevented it in order to reward his friends & satisfy the DC crowd's desire for a new team.

Selig and the rest of the owners are a pack of thieves.

DC Sox Fan
09-30-2004, 01:43 PM
Well I am glad that the 'Spos are moving here. But I do feel horrible for the people of Montreal... the true fans. And I can't help but feel guilty for my joy when I look at this pic:


http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040929/i/r1752044945.jpg

chisoxmike
09-30-2004, 01:50 PM
What are these people crying about???? They never went to a game in their lives. Even teams in last place can draw more than 6,000 per game. I dont want to hear anything how these people are upset and how they will "miss" their Expos.

Fenway
09-30-2004, 01:51 PM
Expos fans have one hope Selig's wonderful track record in court.

This RICO case could blow up in MLB's face. They can not explain how the Expos minority owners wound up with 6% of the MARLIND

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040930/i/r3353708792.jpg

Fenway
09-30-2004, 01:55 PM
What are these people crying about???? They never went to a game in their lives. Even teams in last place can draw more than 6,000 per game. I dont want to hear anything how these people are upset and how they will "miss" their Expos.
They didn't stop going until MLB made it clear they had no intention of selling the team to local people. Then this year when they didn't even TENDER Vlad they just watched in silence.

The limited partners represent the main factions of the Montreal biz community. They were going to do nothing while Selig was in charge.

Honestly talking to people there its 50-50 for next year that they will go back.

Milw
09-30-2004, 01:59 PM
What are these people crying about???? They never went to a game in their lives. Even teams in last place can draw more than 6,000 per game. I dont want to hear anything how these people are upset and how they will "miss" their Expos.Actually, that's not true. Until the strike of 94, the Expos had some of the best fan support in all of baseball.

Think about it -- the Expos followed the strike by trading ALL of their best players, cut their marketing budget to virtually nothing, threatened to move on 3 different occassions, sold the team to a guy willing to spend only a fraction of what Reinsdorf will, cut the broadcasting deal so that no games were on the radio for a season, lost the local TV contract, had the crappy owner abandon the franchise like an orphan to be run by MLB, played 1/3 of the home games in another country, still threatening to move the team -- all the while playing in the very worst stadium in all of sports.

And you wonder why they had meager attendance??? Sheesh!:?:

Fenway
09-30-2004, 02:08 PM
What are these people crying about???? They never went to a game in their lives. Even teams in last place can draw more than 6,000 per game. I dont want to hear anything how these people are upset and how they will "miss" their Expos.
The US media never gave Montreal a break Hal Bodley in USA Today was the worst.

CBC Online looks at the entire saga
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/expos/

markp8867
09-30-2004, 02:13 PM
"I feel sad about the whole story, the way Montreal turned out. That's the best city I ever played in and my memories of the fans are incredible."

- Pedro Martinez, Red Sox ace and ex-Expo
Well Pedro, that really doesn't say much for Los Angeles and Boston as cities! I went to an Expos game back in 1989. It was late August and they were in first place at the time battling the Cubs in the former NL Eastern Division. The park was nearly empty. The people who worked there were very rude too. If an usher shows you to your seat, he expects a tip. Can you believe that?

The Expos obviously had a good team that year but the fans didn't care then just as they don't now. This was way before Bud was commish and this talk about contraction, etc. and the MLB owners buying out the team.

The simple fact is that the people of Montreal never cared about the Expos and because of that they don't deserve a baseball team. When I was in Montreal I saw many people walking around downtown. Not one of them had an Expos hat, jersey, shirt, or anything else like that on. The Expos were in first place so I would have expected to see someone supporting the team. However, I did see a lot of Montreal Canadiens gear on people though.

Perhaps if the strike in 1994 didn't happen and the Expos won their division and quite possibly a trip to the World Series, then the fan interest might have grown to the point where this didn't need to happen. I doubt it though!

Hangar18
09-30-2004, 02:15 PM
The way MLB & Selig handled the Expos situation is absolutely disgraceful. The franchise could have succeeded but Selig deilberately prevented it in order to reward his friends & satisfy the DC crowd's desire for a new team.

Selig and the rest of the owners are a pack of thieves.
wow, looking at those pictures does move me a bit. I hope BUD gets to
look at the pic of the kid holding that Youppi stuffed animal. BUD Selig
and the MLBs handling of the EXPOS is indeed DISGRACEFUL. They were
getting 40K a nite in 1994, Before the Strike, the firesale, then Seligs Actions/Inactions led to their demise. Seligs a Thief. But someones
telling him what to do. that someone .........
:reinsy
" What are you looking at? Like I helped orchestrate this!"

markp8867
09-30-2004, 02:29 PM
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040930/i/r3353708792.jpg
Le idiot!

Well buddy, if you went to more games it wouldn't have come to this. The Kane County Cougars outdraw you and that isn't good.

chisoxmike
09-30-2004, 02:30 PM
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040930/i/r3353708792.jpg
Le idiot!

Well buddy, if you went to more games it wouldn't have come to this. The Kane County Cougars outdraw you and that isn't good.

Thank you!

DC Sox Fan
09-30-2004, 02:43 PM
Hangar, I don't know what you're trying to imply about uncle Jerry. As a matter of fact, he was at the DC press conference yesterday to show his support... look closely at the picture :cool:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2211

Fenway
09-30-2004, 02:44 PM
Funny a lot of people were saying the White Sox should have moved to Milwaukee after the Braves left in 1966.

Then it Denver, Seattle, St Petersburg

It could have been saved




http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040930/i/r3353708792.jpg
Le idiot!

Well buddy, if you went to more games it wouldn't have come to this. The Kane County Cougars outdraw you and that isn't good.

LongLiveFisk
09-30-2004, 02:51 PM
What are these people crying about???? They never went to a game in their lives. Even teams in last place can draw more than 6,000 per game. I dont want to hear anything how these people are upset and how they will "miss" their Expos.Maybe these people are crying becasue they are among the 6,000 or fewer that actually did support the team. It's their right. They can't answer for the city of Montreal any more than you or I can answer for the city of Chicago's lack of enthusiasm over the White Sox. I don't know about you, but I don't feel any less a Sox fan when only 10,000 or so are there and you better believe that I, too, would be crying if my Sox left Chicago.

markp8867
09-30-2004, 03:24 PM
I wonder how Crazy Carl feels about Montreal.
I'm sure Mr. Everett has forgotten all about his days as an Expo. Most likely, he thinks the Expos never existed...just like the dinosaurs.

markp8867
09-30-2004, 03:42 PM
They were getting 40K a nite in 1994, Before the Strike, the firesale, then Seligs Actions/Inactions led to their demise.
Yes but 40K Canadian is only 31K US.

Actually they averaged around 22K (4th worst in the NL) that year which isn't that great for the only baseball team in a city about the size of Chicago. They have a great public transportation system there. The city is very safe and clean. So the only excuse for Montrealers not going to games is that they just don't care much about baseball.

doublem23
09-30-2004, 03:53 PM
**** DC. They don't even deserve a team as bad as the Expos.

DC Sox Fan
09-30-2004, 03:57 PM
Doublem.... why the hate? :?:

VaSoxfan
09-30-2004, 05:30 PM
The way MLB & Selig handled the Expos situation is absolutely disgraceful. The franchise could have succeeded but Selig deilberately prevented it in order to reward his friends & satisfy the DC crowd's desire for a new team.

Selig and the rest of the owners are a pack of thieves.

And what desire is that? The DC crowds desire for a new team? The Senators actually didn't draw all that bad the last time they were here, and the management pulled a Baltimore Colts and took off for a sweeter deal in Texas. Then the last 30-some years baseball time and time again jerked our chain, telling us deals were imminent, like when the Padres, Astros, etc almost moved here. I totally agree the way the situation was handled was disgraceful, but don't make us in DC the bad guys.

If anyone actually gave a snot about the Expos all these years, they wouldn't have been in this mess. Yeah I know, they drew well in some years, and certainly have some passionate fans, but overall the city of Montreal (which is huge and has a huge metro and suburban population) did not support that team at all.

I'm glad for us in DC but also glad that the Expos and their families will finally have a sense of direction, a normal schedule, and will have good loud crowds to play in front of.

VaSoxfan
09-30-2004, 05:31 PM
**** DC. They don't even deserve a team as bad as the Expos.

That's a real intelligent post. Why don't we?

silhouette
09-30-2004, 06:51 PM
**** DC. They don't even deserve a team as bad as the Expos.Was that really necessary?

Anyways, I think they were better off relocating the team at Northern Virginia rather than D.C. People forgot that part of the reason the 1st Senators team left here (yeah I'm living in DC now) was that people started to go to the Orioles games instead of the Senators game.

Unfortunately some of the people I know here don't really want the team here. In fact one guy told me "The last thing this city needs is a baseball team. Who cares about baseball? It's the dumbest sport in the world." My son even told me "Just exactly what we need, more traffic!"

PaleHoseGeorge
09-30-2004, 07:28 PM
Yes but 40K Canadian is only 31K US.

Actually they averaged around 22K (4th worst in the NL) that year which isn't that great for the only baseball team in a city about the size of Chicago. They have a great public transportation system there. The city is very safe and clean. So the only excuse for Montrealers not going to games is that they just don't care much about baseball.
Judging by this post, you clearly haven't got a ****ing clue what you are talking about.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-30-2004, 07:32 PM
That's a real intelligent post. Why don't we?
You already had TWO baseball franchises leave town. There are plenty of other markets that have never had an MLB franchise, and some deserving cities have no major sports teams at all.

And since when are the rest of us supposed to be happy that you're getting a THIRD chance at direct expense to another group of fans?

**** D.C. and **** you if you don't like us telling you so in this forum. It's not for you anyway.

minastirith67
09-30-2004, 08:08 PM
You already had TWO baseball franchises leave town. There are plenty of other markets that have never had an MLB franchise, and some deserving cities have no major sports teams at all.

And since when are the rest of us supposed to be happy that you're getting a THIRD chance at direct expense to another group of fans?

**** D.C. and **** you if you don't like us telling you so in this forum. It's not for you anyway.
:duck:

Lip Man 1
09-30-2004, 08:33 PM
Montreal had tremendous fan support in the late 70's / early 80's when they had one of the best teams in baseball. Who could forget an outfield of Raines, Dawson and Valentine (no NOT Valentin!). The had Gary Carter, Al Oliver, Dave Cash, Chris Speier, Steve Rogers, Scott Sanderson, Bill Guillickson and Jeff Reardon. They had a hell of a club.

Then they had another hellacious club in the mid 90's, they produced talent in droves. The best farm system in baseball.

One can only wonder what might have happened if they ever got a new stadium or were able to remodel and expand Jarry Park their original home.

Lip

VaSoxfan
10-01-2004, 12:02 AM
You already had TWO baseball franchises leave town. There are plenty of other markets that have never had an MLB franchise, and some deserving cities have no major sports teams at all.

And since when are the rest of us supposed to be happy that you're getting a THIRD chance at direct expense to another group of fans?

**** D.C. and **** you if you don't like us telling you so in this forum. It's not for you anyway.
I see. So instead of flinging insults, how back justifying your statements? As I stated earlier, the second time the Senators left was not for lack of attendance, but because the greedy owners decided to pull out for what they saw was a better deal. And please tell me in your infinite wisdom which markets deserved a team better than DC? Or which ones that have no sports teams? Which of them could support an MLB team? I noticed you backed up your sophmoric comments with facts and examples..lol.

And even though the vast majority of fans are happy and excited at not only the nations capital getting a team, but that the Expos can finally settle and play ball, you think people should be mourning because "this was at direct expense to another group of fans?" News flash genius: Montreal was losing the Expos no matter which city they finally landed in. I do feel for the VERY few fans who still cared about the Expos. But if the rest of Montreal gave a squirt about baseball, they wouldn't be losing the team now would they? And I suppose if the Sox had left for Florida a ways back you wouldn't be happy if they came back?

Oh and as for the "it's not for you" comment...another brilliant and insightful observation. Guess what, it is for me, and everyone else in the DC suburbs as well as downtown. I suppose by your logic that nobody in the Chicago suburbs, or Illinois or Indiana is allowed to be a Sox fan...let alone the many of us elsewhere in the country.

So go if you want to go cry somewhere for the handful of Expos fans that still existed...or sit in the corner because you're not happy DC got baseball, go ahead. If you don't like it...tough.

doublem23
10-01-2004, 01:07 AM
Jim Caple is right. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&page=caple_jim)

Bah, who cares? The pomp and circumstance will wear off after a few years, Washington won't get a stadium built and will be void of baseball... again.

StillMissOzzie
10-01-2004, 01:40 AM
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040930/i/r3353708792.jpg
Le idiot!

Well buddy, if you went to more games it wouldn't have come to this. The Kane County Cougars outdraw you and that isn't good.
Myself and my family contributed to that KCC total. But can you blame what real Expos fans there are for not coming out for this, their lame duck year? Why line the pockets of MLB to help them pack their bags?

SMO

DC Sox Fan
10-01-2004, 01:58 AM
the second time the Senators left was not for lack of attendance, but because the greedy owners decided to pull out for what they saw was a better deal.


That's actually what happened the first time, too. And so were born... the Twinkies!

Look I have never lived in a town where MLB existed. My folks are both from Chicago, hence me being raised a sox fan. Make no doubt about it... I am a Sox fan for life. But I can't wait to wear my Sox hat to RFK when the flubs come to town, heckle Corky and Co. and see some good live MLB without having to drive a few hours each way due to rush hour traffic.

PHG and Doublem... I really just don't understand where this bitterness is coming from... I know we're all Sox fans here (at least those of us in this debate :cool: ) I just don't get why y'all are hatin' on D.C.... Peter Angelos up in B'more has been screwing us over for years, MLB has been screwing us over for years (As VASF gave great examples of). I mentioned I feel horrible for the true fans in Montreal.... as I think everyone does. But this team WILL thrive... if for no other reason than all the relocated Braves, Mets and Phillies fans coming to see their teams. Don't hate the player.... hate the game!

(But still love the SOX :D: )

doublem23
10-01-2004, 02:14 AM
The bitterness is not so much aimed at DC as much as it is the MLB and the way they handled the situation. Essentially, they told the loyal fans of a 35-year-old franchise with a rich tradition that was once the envy of professional baseball to "**** off," and everyone is kind of "Lah-Dee-Dah, oh baseball in Washington is good for the game." It's not good for the game when the owners can basically strongarm their paying customers and do whatever they want. All I can hope is that a judge sees the injustice being done and shoves a big middle finger in Selig's face and tells him baseball will be alive in Montreal in 2005.

Viva Les Expos.

SomebodyToldMe
10-01-2004, 02:29 AM
I've been wearing my Expos hat a lot lately.

It's sad when a team disappears.

Especially under these kind of circumstances.

sigh.

NOW WHY COULDN'T THEY CONTRACT THE DARN TWINS!!!!!?!??!!?

Nick@Nite
10-01-2004, 07:31 AM
I can't wait to wear my Sox hat to RFK when the flubs come to town, heckle Corky and Co. and see some good live MLB without having to drive a few hours each way due to rush hour traffic.See you in the beer line.:D:

VaSoxfan
10-01-2004, 08:43 AM
The bitterness is not so much aimed at DC as much as it is the MLB and the way they handled the situation. Essentially, they told the loyal fans of a 35-year-old franchise with a rich tradition that was once the envy of professional baseball to "**** off," and everyone is kind of "Lah-Dee-Dah, oh baseball in Washington is good for the game." It's not good for the game when the owners can basically strongarm their paying customers and do whatever they want. All I can hope is that a judge sees the injustice being done and shoves a big middle finger in Selig's face and tells him baseball will be alive in Montreal in 2005.

Viva Les Expos.


You also have to consider that baseball is also righting a wrong here. DC got screwed in the past, then got teased and left at the altar several times in the last ten years alone. In 99 this was almost a done deal and didn't happen. The check was written. If this was all about accommodating DC, this would have gone down years ago.

Look at how long this took even the last two seasons. Selig did everything possible to delay it and put it off and tried to think of every other possible city that could even remotely support a team, even though all of the other possible cities were ridiculous compared to what DC brings to the table in terms of population, economy, stadium, tv market, fan base, etc. Yet the decision was put off and put off and put off.

The only strongarming was done by Angelos, who most experts say didn't have a legal leg to stand on with this anyway, yet he bullied baseball and his buddy Selig into getting compensated for this. Which basically means he can put a garbage product on the field in Baltimore (which he has been doing for years anyway) then cry to baseball that he isn't getting fans in the seats or making money and they will make up the difference for him. What a joke.

Again, this would not be an issue if Montreal, a city of 8 million, supported their team. Yes I know there were some hardcore fans that are brokenhearted. But I looked it up. Since 1996 the team has averaged 993,830 fans a year. That's 12,269 fans a night. And in those years they drew below a million fans in 6 out of the 9 seasons. Never drawing over two million fans. They never even tried to build a new park. And if Montreal was so desperate to save their team, where were the fans this year? It's not like there was a spirited "Save the Expos" campaign in Montreal or anything. They flat out didn't care, aside from a very few.

There is no injustice being done here. It's not like they were drawing 30,000 a night and making good money. All the other teams have been forking over money to keep them alive. And not to mention the Expos themselves have been getting screwed, playing in front of tiny crowds, playing 20 extra road games a year, not knowing where they will end up next. I truly do feel for the few fans who will miss the Expos, but why would any judge or arbiter rule that the Expos should stay in Montreal and keep losing money in a crumbling stadium rather than be in Washington with a promising future?

And again, all the demographic information aside, it's great that DC has baseball again. The capital should have baseball.

VaSoxfan
10-01-2004, 09:00 AM
Jim Caple is right. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&page=caple_jim)

Bah, who cares? The pomp and circumstance will wear off after a few years, Washington won't get a stadium built and will be void of baseball... again.

This article is one of the extreme few that are putting a negative spin on the issue. Yes DC needs to find an owner, but there are 4 or 5 groups lining up to bid to buy the team. It's not like DC is standing around saying "is anyone out there" to buying the Expos. Yes a stadium needs to be built, and the majority of the DC Council favors the bill. If for whatever reason it doesn't go down, RFK is perfectly serviceable with a few touchups, and Virginia even said on Wednesday they would step up and work with DC if they hit roadblocks.

And again, why does Angelos need to be helped? He can't block the move. Sure he can talk big and probably throw a lawsuit out there, but at the end of the day can he stop this? No. Selig is doing him a favor compensating him, and it's ridiculous.

Why Caple is ignoring the attendance issue makes no sense. The fans didn't care! And I am so sick about hearing how the strike "ruined" the fans. The strike was ten years ago, and they needed to get past that. Attendance numbers in baseball have been rising across the board for years, except in a very few places, like Montreal. Again, if the fans cared so much for their poor Expos why didn't they come out in droves and say hey we're here, and interested? Cause they weren't.

I highly doubt the novelty will wear off in DC anytime soon.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-01-2004, 09:09 AM
The bitterness is not so much aimed at DC as much as it is the MLB and the way they handled the situation. Essentially, they told the loyal fans of a 35-year-old franchise with a rich tradition that was once the envy of professional baseball to "**** off," and everyone is kind of "Lah-Dee-Dah, oh baseball in Washington is good for the game." It's not good for the game when the owners can basically strongarm their paying customers and do whatever they want. All I can hope is that a judge sees the injustice being done and shoves a big middle finger in Selig's face and tells him baseball will be alive in Montreal in 2005.

Viva Les Expos.
Yeah, what he said. This is NOT good for baseball. In fact it pretty much summarizes everything that is WRONG with baseball. You can't perfume a pile of **** so stop telling me you can.

Viva Les Expos

VaSoxfan
10-01-2004, 09:24 AM
[QUOTE=PaleHoseGeorge]Yeah, what he said. This is NOT good for baseball. In fact it pretty much summarizes everything that is WRONG with baseball. You can't perfume a pile of **** so stop telling me you can.


Fine. Again you've posted with no facts or anything to back up what you said. Like I said above, I guess it would have been better for the Expos to stay put, in an outdated, useless stadium, in front of 5,000 fans a night. Or better yet playing in Puerto Rico, that must be a suburb of Montreal I guess.. Oh and it would have been better for the Expos to keep draining money from the Sox and the other teams to keep a useless franchise afloat.

Montreal gave up on the Expos years ago. But by all means if you want to keep crying for them, go find a tissue.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-01-2004, 09:27 AM
[QUOTE=PaleHoseGeorge]Fine. Again you've posted with no facts or anything to back up what you said. Oh for Christ sake, learn to ****ing READ. This is twice you've made youself look like an ass for saying this. Here... from post #25, the second one I made on this subject.

You already had TWO baseball franchises leave town. There are plenty of other markets that have never had an MLB franchise, and some deserving cities have no major sports teams at all.

And since when are the rest of us supposed to be happy that you're getting a THIRD chance at direct expense to another group of fans?

Do you need me to draw you a ****ing picture? You've had chances... plenty of them. Now you're getting an unprecedented third opportunity. What part of this hasn't sunk into your thick skull?

kraut83
10-01-2004, 09:38 AM
I highly doubt the novelty will wear off in DC anytime soon.
I'm not so sure about this. I think the casual fan that goes to a few games a year will definitely go check out the new team. However, it will be 3 years before they have a new stadium, and many casual fans go for the "baseball experience" hence the draw of Oriole Park just up I-95. Will they draw better than Montreal, no question. But I really don't think it's going to be as big of a success as Bud would like us all to think.

Milw
10-01-2004, 10:08 AM
Viva Les ExposIt's actually "Vive les Expos," if you're going for the French. :D:

But indeed, Vive les Expos! Je deteste les Senateurs de Washington. :angry:

1951Campbell
10-01-2004, 10:29 AM
I can see both sides of this, sorta...

You can easily argue that MLB and Selig queered the deal for baseball in post-1994 Montreal. However, keeping a team that nobody cares about--for whatever reason--in a town where they're gonna draw 9,000 on a good night just to stick it to Loria and Selig is not good for baseball. Especially when there's millions of potential fans in other cities, like DC, Charlotte, Nashville, Portland, Mexico City, New Orleans, wherever.

However, DC's getting a third chance is a little silly. I know, they may have gotten screwed in the past as well, but come on. Other cities have found a way to keep teams in their towns when push came to shove. DC didn't. Milwaukee's on their third team now. If they ever left, would you say they deserve a fourth? I have to admit, I kind of think the Senators are going to be somewhere else in 10-15 years. So why not just cut out the middle man?

Full disclosure: I'm pretty sure DC doesn't deserve a ball team, even though they'd be the closest team to me.

ma-gaga
10-01-2004, 12:01 PM
Bottom line, MLB screwed Montreal. Jeff Loria screwed Montreal. He leveraged the minority owners out of their shares, then cut bait and ran breaking his word. I don't know why MLB decided to reward him with the Marlins. He is truly one of the most vile owners in the game.

The anti-marketing in Montreal is unprecedented in professional sports. Imagine, no radio contract and no television contract. WHY would you support an owner that obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about the team? Imagine an owner who has one of the top 5 players in the game, and letting him get away for absolutely nothing.

The owners 'buying out' Jeffrey Loria is a travesty. That this crap has lasted 3 years is insane. I don't get why team owners get free rides in the media (well I kind of do, and that hypocracy bugs me). Montreal has been the most screwed over city by professional sports teams ever. EVER. I think the moving vans in the middle of the night in Baltimore 20 years ago was close. But I don't think it compares.

I don't really care one way or the other if Washington or Portland, or NOVA gets the team. MLB screwed Montreal and their fans. Not the other way around.

doublem23
10-01-2004, 12:55 PM
You can easily argue that MLB and Selig queered the deal for baseball in post-1994 Montreal. However, keeping a team that nobody cares about--for whatever reason--in a town where they're gonna draw 9,000 on a good night just to stick it to Loria and Selig is not good for baseball. Especially when there's millions of potential fans in other cities, like DC, Charlotte, Nashville, Portland, Mexico City, New Orleans, wherever.
Baseball could have worked in Montreal, had the MLB actually shown some concern or care about its fans rather than telling them that they weren't wanted any more. Classy.

DC Sox Fan
10-01-2004, 12:58 PM
I think it comes down to a little bit of everyone being at fault. Old owners, city council and corporate Montreal for not getting behind the team or a new stadium.

I don't see how you can argue that it's bad for baseball though... especially for our sox. All the owners were having to shell out to keep the Expos afloat. Now each owner is going to get AT LEAST $10 million, possibly near $14 million for the sale of this team.

And again, arguing that we don't deserve another chance is not really a valid point. The Sens always drew OK. It was a lot easier for owners to move their teams back then, and that's why we got screwed over. That's like saying that the south side wouldn't deserve another chance if the Sox had moved to Tampa in '88. It's not the fans fault. Additionally, DC is not the town it was 33 years ago. We've grown by leaps and bounds, have the fastest growing counties nationally in the area, and are experiencing some urban revitalization. The defense/government and contracting areas are growing new jobs left and right, especially in the Navy Yard area... adjacent to the new stadium site.

DC is a tremendous untapped market. The whole process (owners screwing over the team, MLB buying it, taking forever to decide what they want to do) was a dark time for baseball... I won't argue that. But moving that team to DC IS GOOD FOR BASEBALL! (Much better than keeping them losing millions upon millions in Montreal, or moving them to Vegas, Portland, etc.)

longshot7
10-01-2004, 01:21 PM
You already had TWO baseball franchises leave town. There are plenty of other markets that have never had an MLB franchise, and some deserving cities have no major sports teams at all.

And since when are the rest of us supposed to be happy that you're getting a THIRD chance at direct expense to another group of fans?

**** D.C. and **** you if you don't like us telling you so in this forum. It's not for you anyway.
Wow. Anyway, I'm happy for DC. Go them! There was nobody in DC when the original Senators left in 61. Now, the population is a lot bigger. I wish I had exact numbers, but oh well. And I also believe that DC deserved the Expos more than any other city - and btw, keeping them in the East means no more realigning of divisions.

longshot7
10-01-2004, 01:24 PM
Jim Caple is right. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&page=caple_jim)

Bah, who cares? The pomp and circumstance will wear off after a few years, Washington won't get a stadium built and will be void of baseball... again.
Guess we'll see...

longshot7
10-01-2004, 01:32 PM
Do you need me to draw you a ****ing picture? You've had chances... plenty of them. Now you're getting an unprecedented third opportunity. What part of this hasn't sunk into your thick skull?
1971 DC is not the same as 2005 DC. That's like comparing 1959 Chicago to 2005 Chicago. Same city... way different.

Milw
10-01-2004, 03:38 PM
Milwaukee's on their third team now. If they ever left, would you say they deserve a fourth? Well let's be fair here ... the original Milwaukee Brewers existed for one year, in 1901. So factually you're correct, but I don't really think you can count that.

Milw
10-01-2004, 05:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1891931



Kate Hones, 48, wearing an Expos jersey and cap, cried as she watched her team leave the field for the last time. A holder since the Expos moved to the Big OF in 1977, she hung on through Blue Monday, the strike in '94, the fire sale and the sad circus that has unfolded over the last couple of years.


She wishes she could have been like some of her fellow fans and walked away. She points to the strike of '94, when the Expos had the best record in baseball only to have the World Series canceled, as the point of no return.


"I wish I could have ripped up my season tickets into a million pieces to make a point, but I can't," she said. "I have a friend who is a rabid fan like me. He never came back after that. To love something and be so crushed.


"We didn't lose because of something on the field, because the manager made a decision or Steve Rogers threw a cookie down the middle. We lost because of a decision. I can't believe the World Series was canceled and it wasn't because of a war. Where is the outrage?"


Instead, there were just tears and grim resignation. Sound like fans you know?

This could've been us.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-02-2004, 11:10 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1891931


Sound like fans you know?

This could've been us.BINGO!

When a team as badly mismanaged as the Expos can nearly be "contracted" by the owners, then abandoned to the commissioner's office, then spend two seasons barnstorming 4 corners of the continent before being "sold" to the long-suffering fans of metro Baltimore/D.C. ...

Then some of the Sox Fans around here simply don't know their own team's history very well. There but for the Grace of God go I...

Nearly moved to Milwaukee.
Nearly moved to Seattle.
Nearly moved to Denver.
Nearly moved to St. Petersburg.

And the first two of these (Milwaukee and Seattle) had Bud Selig's fingerprints all over the crime scene.

The White Sox have served as MLB ownership's dirty dish rag for most of the last 40 years. Now the Expos serve that same purpose and the more demented minds around here think it's great.

Think again. Or more accurately, think for the first time.