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OzzieBall2004
09-29-2004, 03:37 PM
This is essentially a conspiracy theory, but anyone else think that we shipped Reed to Seattle instead of Borchard b/c Reinsdorf didnt want to pay Borchards signing bonus for nothing? I personally do, and I remember they were both "untouchable" supposedly but Reed ended up going. Any thoughts?

santo=dorf
09-29-2004, 03:38 PM
This is essentially a conspiracy theory, but anyone else think that we shipped Reed to Seattle instead of Borchard b/c Reinsdorf didnt want to pay Borchards signing bonus for nothing? I personally do, and I remember they were both "untouchable" supposedly but Reed ended up going. Any thoughts?
:rolleyes:

Here we go again.....

Randar68
09-29-2004, 03:39 PM
This is essentially a conspiracy theory, but anyone else think that we shipped Reed to Seattle instead of Borchard b/c Reinsdorf didnt want to pay Borchards signing bonus for nothing? I personally do, and I remember they were both "untouchable" supposedly but Reed ended up going. Any thoughts?
*****. The story is always better than the reality.

:whoflungpoo

Kogs35
09-29-2004, 03:43 PM
No More Stupid Jeremy @*&$^#*#@( Reed Threads Already Its Over Get Over It

ja1022
09-29-2004, 03:47 PM
This is essentially a conspiracy theory, but anyone else think that we shipped Reed to Seattle instead of Borchard b/c Reinsdorf didnt want to pay Borchards signing bonus for nothing? I personally do, and I remember they were both "untouchable" supposedly but Reed ended up going. Any thoughts?
They traded Reed instead of Borchard because....SEATTLE DIDN"T WANT BORCHARD!!!!! THEY WANTED REED!!!! End of story.

AddisonStSox
09-29-2004, 03:49 PM
http://washington.pacificnorthwestmovies.com/Enough/enough-poster1.jpg

What she said...NO MORE REED POSTS!

OzzieBall2004
09-29-2004, 04:02 PM
An unnamed source gave me the documents that prove this is true.

While some have criticized the legitimacy of these documents, no one has criticized the matter at the heart of the story.

We here at All-BS make no apologies for our reportings on this matter.

GiveMeSox
09-29-2004, 04:58 PM
This is essentially a conspiracy theory, but anyone else think that we shipped Reed to Seattle instead of Borchard b/c Reinsdorf didnt want to pay Borchards signing bonus for nothing? I personally do, and I remember they were both "untouchable" supposedly but Reed ended up going. Any thoughts?
"untouchable" from a GM means lets try and increase his trade value with words. they do it all the time. But that said i beleive the problem is the sox philosophy of what player they want. Instead of taking a speedy, good defensive, hit for average type guy they went for this big stocky, slow, uncoordinated all or nothing power guy. Thats the problem. Borchard is a relic of the shueler era on old sox philsohpy of slug slug and slug. Now we all want speed, defense, fundamentals, and high avg. We made a mistake keeping the dinoasuar with a .160 avg who either hits a solo homer or K's.

balke
09-29-2004, 07:28 PM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:gJrPYEnq67IJ:mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p968090reg.jpg

"Hey... did you know I'm 9-5 in a Sox Uni? Why don't we question my worth some more...."


http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:YQBI6dRs90oJ:sa.nextwish.org/Macros/This%2520Thread%2520Sucks/nohopeforthread.jpg

gosox41
09-29-2004, 11:06 PM
This is essentially a conspiracy theory, but anyone else think that we shipped Reed to Seattle instead of Borchard b/c Reinsdorf didnt want to pay Borchards signing bonus for nothing? I personally do, and I remember they were both "untouchable" supposedly but Reed ended up going. Any thoughts?
I'd say it's more of an indictment on the Sox scouting department and KW.


Bob

SoxxoS
09-29-2004, 11:14 PM
Hey WU! or someone...can we get a "beating a dead horse" tag? I have seen it before, but we really need one.

pudge
09-30-2004, 01:40 AM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:gJrPYEnq67IJ:mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p968090reg.jpg

"Hey... did you know I'm 9-5 in a Sox Uni? Why don't we question my worth some more...."



Okay, do you really want to? Because you're not worth Reed and Olivo, and it will be proven soon. I loooove Reed threads because it gets yall so pissy.

:)

California Sox
09-30-2004, 01:56 AM
Yeah, he's hitting .440 making the major league minimum. No way any player making millions is more valuable than that, particularly when you're a "small market" team like the Sox. But I agree that we have to stop thinking about what might have been. It could be 10-15 years of torture ahead, particularly if he develops power ala Raffy Palmeiro. Oh well, come on Anderson and Sweeney! (I've given up on Borchard.)

gosox41
09-30-2004, 07:41 AM
Yeah, he's hitting .440 making the major league minimum. No way any player making millions is more valuable than that, particularly when you're a "small market" team like the Sox. But I agree that we have to stop thinking about what might have been. It could be 10-15 years of torture ahead, particularly if he develops power ala Raffy Palmeiro. Oh well, come on Anderson and Sweeney! (I've given up on Borchard.)
I'm having my doubts about Borchard. He has shown some signs of improvement, but he still K's a lot. Didn't he have 3K's yesterday to go along with his HR?


Bob

samram
09-30-2004, 07:59 AM
I'm having my doubts about Borchard. He has shown some signs of improvement, but he still K's a lot. Didn't he have 3K's yesterday to go along with his HR?


Bob
So you're saying you won't be happy if Borchard achieves the level of Rob Deer? Man, some people just refuse to be happy. :D:

Iguana775
09-30-2004, 09:17 AM
Hey WU! or someone...can we get a "beating a dead horse" tag? I have seen it before, but we really need one.
something like this....

misty60481
09-30-2004, 09:30 AM
I see Reed has 26 hits and 4 doubles--punch & Judy type hitter we dont need another Willie Harris

gosox41
09-30-2004, 09:32 AM
So you're saying you won't be happy if Borchard achieves the level of Rob Deer? Man, some people just refuse to be happy. :D:
I know. I'm picky like that.

Because this team really needs more guys who strike out a lot, have a ton of power potential, and low OBP.


I'm not going to criticize the trade on it's own merits because it was needed at the time. But if KW were competent the Sox would never have been put in this postition to begin with. When's he going to start practicing what he preaches?


Bob

gosox41
09-30-2004, 09:42 AM
I see Reed has 26 hits and 4 doubles--punch & Judy type hitter we dont need another Willie Harris
He also is 2 for 2 in stolen bases and has 2K's in 50 AB's. It's all a small sample size but I'll still mention the .490 OBP and 1.011 OPSwhich I am well aware won't stay this high.

It may be 'Punch and Judy' but contrast it with:

Joe Crede- .300 OBP, 81 K's in 474 AB's and an OPS of .722
Joe Borchard-.239 OBP, 55K's in 187 AB's. .310 SLG %.

Now I'll go out on a limb and say that Reed has will have a better OPS then Crede. Crede is at .736 for his career.

Granted Reed is going to fall down to earth, and we all hope that Borchard will pull it together. But Crede could have been dealt instead of Reed. Reed could have been called up to be an everyday OFer (which I recommended when Burke was first recalled) and I'd feel slightly better about the Sox future.


Bob

Flight #24
09-30-2004, 11:36 AM
Granted Reed is going to fall down to earth, and we all hope that Borchard will pull it together. But Crede could have been dealt instead of Reed. Reed could have been called up to be an everyday OFer (which I recommended when Burke was first recalled) and I'd feel slightly better about the Sox future.


Bob
He couldn't have been called up to be an everyday OF at the time of the deal, not unless you had knowledge of the fact that Maggs was going to be out for the season. Hence for a team looking for the playoffs, Crede was more valuable than Reed since our alternate option for him was basically Harris (moving Uribe to 3B), whereas we had no reasonable expectation of having a long-term hole in the OF and therefore Reed would not have contributed to a playoff run.

Wealz
09-30-2004, 11:42 AM
I see Reed has 26 hits and 4 doubles--punch & Judy type hitter we dont need another Willie Harris
Difference being it takes Willie 6 weeks to get 26 hits . . .

balke
09-30-2004, 12:07 PM
He also is 2 for 2 in stolen bases and has 2K's in 50 AB's. It's all a small sample size but I'll still mention the .490 OBP and 1.011 OPSwhich I am well aware won't stay this high.

It may be 'Punch and Judy' but contrast it with:

Joe Crede- .300 OBP, 81 K's in 474 AB's and an OPS of .722
Joe Borchard-.239 OBP, 55K's in 187 AB's. .310 SLG %.

Now I'll go out on a limb and say that Reed has will have a better OPS then Crede. Crede is at .736 for his career.

Granted Reed is going to fall down to earth, and we all hope that Borchard will pull it together. But Crede could have been dealt instead of Reed. Reed could have been called up to be an everyday OFer (which I recommended when Burke was first recalled) and I'd feel slightly better about the Sox future.


Bob
But how would everyone feel with Dransfeldt at 3rd, Valentin at SS, uribe/alomar/harris at 2B.

Or how do we look w/
Buerhle
Contreres
Garland
Diaz
Grili

Reed is probably a +.300 hitter in the majors. I don't know what type of power he has yet, I'm betting it's +20 HRs. IF this is even true, I'm just guessing. In the end, he was a means to acquiring a good pitcher, and at the time of the trade, we didn't get shafted at 3rd. Joe shafted us through the rest of the season. But now that he's addressed his poor swing, he's turned things around, and the sox might not have to worry about 3rd in the offseason.

For all the whining about the sox being cheap, this was a move that cost money and made us better than we would be w/ Reed on our team. RF doesn't win you a game. Pitchers do. What helps pitchers the most is good infield Defense. Joe was needed here. Joe is probably still needed here. Comparing a RF'ers slugging #'s to a 3rd baseman's proves nothing. In the end, Jeremy can't play 3rd. Just about anyone can play RF.

gosox41
09-30-2004, 12:09 PM
He couldn't have been called up to be an everyday OF at the time of the deal, not unless you had knowledge of the fact that Maggs was going to be out for the season. Hence for a team looking for the playoffs, Crede was more valuable than Reed since our alternate option for him was basically Harris (moving Uribe to 3B), whereas we had no reasonable expectation of having a long-term hole in the OF and therefore Reed would not have contributed to a playoff run.
I must be getting my timelines mixed up. The very first time Magglio was put on the DL was when Reed needed to be called up. If memory serves correctly, Reed was still with the organization. Instead we got Jamie Burke.


Bob

shagar69
09-30-2004, 12:52 PM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:gJrPYEnq67IJ:mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p968090reg.jpg

"Hey... did you know I'm 9-5 in a Sox Uni? Why don't we question my worth some more...."


http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:YQBI6dRs90oJ:sa.nextwish.org/Macros/This%2520Thread%2520Sucks/nohopeforthread.jpg
hey freddy, did you know that youre ERA is almost 5 in whitesox uni?

Flight #24
09-30-2004, 01:21 PM
I must be getting my timelines mixed up. The very first time Magglio was put on the DL was when Reed needed to be called up. If memory serves correctly, Reed was still with the organization. Instead we got Jamie Burke.


Bob
That doesn't change the fact that Maggs was supposed to be out 4 weeks, and at the time, you had to decide between giving up your 4 week replacement OF and your season-long starting 3B.

Whether Reed should have been called up intead of Burke is a whole other debate, not really related to the trade.

SoxxoS
09-30-2004, 01:47 PM
Small sample size or not, you shouldn't be able to add Crede's OPs and Borchard's slugging to equal Reed's OPS.

Everyone named Joe has to go on this team, including the ones that use the spanish pronunciation.

balke
09-30-2004, 01:54 PM
hey freddy, did you know that youre ERA is almost 5 in whitesox uni?

Almost 5. Almost. Buzzards on here were waiting to pick away at Garcia all season, and noone could do it because he was consistantly good. He started pitching poorly during the 4-man rotation the Management threw out there.

Also in the Twins series, coming off of IR and on a pitch count, he went scoreless through 5, got up to 80 pitches, and was left in, when he should've been taken out. that significantly ballooned his ERA.

The Freddy of Last start, 7 innings, no runs is more indicative of his worth. Don't throw his Era around like he's not the best pitcher on this team.

FREDDY GARCIA IS THE BEST PITCHER ON THIS TEAM

Jeremy Reed is a call up getting hits in junk time.

shagar69
09-30-2004, 02:02 PM
FREDDY GARCIA IS THE BEST PITCHER ON THIS TEAM


yeah, that really means a lot when your staff ERA is 5.27!

balke
09-30-2004, 02:16 PM
yeah, that really means a lot when your staff ERA is 5.27!
I'll take a pitcher that can make this team better, over a right field prospect any day of the week. Some "sox fans" will complain about any player who's on the team. I think it's pathetic. You have Mark Buerhle and Freddy Garcia on your team, stop whining about it. 4 off days in 2nd half, 4-man rotation, Ozzie Guillen, No BP, ballooned ERA in home games. There's a reason these GREAT pitchers have bad ERA's.

Mark Buerhle and Freddy Garcia are great pitchers. You can't deny it. It is saying a lot to know you have two amazing pitchers in the Rotation next season. Proven players, that won't be likely to pull Loaiza's on us.


http://seattlemariners.topmlbforums.com/

Some of you would like it here more I think.

pudge
09-30-2004, 02:22 PM
Jeremy Reed is a call up getting hits in junk time.
That's the biggest f'ing joke I've heard yet... the M's have been playing the west practically all month where all three west teams were fighting for a playoff spot. Plus they played Boston four times.

pudge
09-30-2004, 02:24 PM
Mark Buerhle and Freddy Garcia are great pitchers. You can't deny it. It is saying a lot to know you have two amazing pitchers in the Rotation next season. Proven players, that won't be likely to pull Loaiza's on us.


http://seattlemariners.topmlbforums.com/

Some of you would like it here more I think.

Go to the Northside where you can drink some koolaid, we don't drink that here... "amazing" pitchers??? LMAO. I kinda think of guys like Randy, Pedro, Schilling as "amazing".

JRIG
09-30-2004, 02:33 PM
Jeremy Reed is a call up getting hits in junk time.
What, because every other player in Major League Baseball has given up playing hard right now except for Reed?

Why are we placing any stock in what Garcia has done the past two months? Hasn't that been in "junk" time as well, with the Sox out of the playoff race?

balke
09-30-2004, 02:35 PM
Go to the Northside where you can drink some koolaid, we don't drink that here... "amazing" pitchers??? LMAO. I kinda think of guys like Randy, Pedro, Schilling as "amazing".
You're the authority on amazing now? I can take any kind of comment you got, but calling me a northsider should get you banned, that's sick.

FYI Pedro's ERA is 10 points Lower than Buerhle's. And he just called the Yanks his daddy in the media. He gives less Innings than Buerhle, w/ one more win. I agree he's amazing, but not much better than Buerhle, who is... yeah you guessed it... "amazing".

And for whoever said Freddy's ERA is almost 5, 4.46 w/ the sox is FAR from 5.00. Open your eyes.


Speaking of Kool-aid
Maybe we could've gotten Randy for Reed! KW is so stupid!"

balke
09-30-2004, 02:37 PM
What, because every other player in Major League Baseball has given up playing hard right now except for Reed?

Why are we placing any stock in what Garcia has done the past two months? Hasn't that been in "junk" time as well, with the Sox out of the playoff race?
Again, see the link I posted on the previous page. Go Jeremy! You can post your heart out about the future Ted Williams there. The sox fans who want to win, will move on with a proven veteran pitcher.

ewokpelts
09-30-2004, 02:50 PM
They traded Reed instead of Borchard because....SEATTLE DIDN"T WANT BORCHARD!!!!! THEY WANTED REED!!!! End of story.they really wanted crede over olivo or reed
Gene

Ol' No. 2
09-30-2004, 02:57 PM
What, because every other player in Major League Baseball has given up playing hard right now except for Reed?

Why are we placing any stock in what Garcia has done the past two months? Hasn't that been in "junk" time as well, with the Sox out of the playoff race?Can someone explain to me why Reed, with just a handful of AB, is the second coming of Willie Mays, while Jamie Burke, hitting .327 with 3X the number of AB is just "a pretty decent backup". Don't you think you're getting a little obsessive with this Jeremy Reed thing? Lots of guys do well when they're first called up. Let's see what happens after a few times through the league when pitchers figure out how to pitch to him.

Garcia is a solid pitcher worth what they gave up to get him (if he could just figure out this day/night thing). Pitching is the name of the game, and any time you can get one of the better pitchers in the league for a prospect and a catcher who was having problems, it's a good deal. I only wish the Sox had gone after him in December, when they could have gotten him for less.

balke
09-30-2004, 03:01 PM
Can someone explain to me why Reed, with just a handful of AB, is the second coming of Willie Mays, while Jamie Burke, hitting .327 with 3X the number of AB is just "a pretty decent backup". Don't you think you're getting a little obsessive with this Jeremy Reed thing? Lots of guys do well when they're first called up. Let's see what happens after a few times through the league when pitchers figure out how to pitch to him.

Garcia is a solid pitcher worth what they gave up to get him (if he could just figure out this day/night thing). Pitching is the name of the game, and any time you can get one of the better pitchers in the league for a prospect and a catcher who was having problems, it's a good deal. I only wish the Sox had gone after him in December, when they could have gotten him for less.

At least they can wait til he plays 30 games for cryin out loud. It's not junk time, you happy? I'm just getting angry cause these posts are ridiculous. He's only played 15 games. No need to give us 20 threads about how this kid is the second coming.

Man Soo Lee
09-30-2004, 03:26 PM
Can someone explain to me why Reed, with just a handful of AB, is the second coming of Willie Mays, while Jamie Burke, hitting .327 with 3X the number of AB is just "a pretty decent backup".
Maybe because Reed is a decade younger with a consistent record of minor league production.

The Wimperoo
09-30-2004, 03:46 PM
I see Reed has 26 hits and 4 doubles--punch & Judy type hitter we dont need another Willie Harris
So 1 out of every 6 hits is a double. Extrapolate that over 200 hits in a season and you end up with around 33-34 doubles. Not to shabby to me. Nice try though.

Ol' No. 2
09-30-2004, 04:38 PM
So 1 out of every 6 hits is a double. Extrapolate that over 200 hits in a season and you end up with around 33-34 doubles. Not to shabby to me. Nice try though.Miguel Olivo homered in his first major league AB. Extrapolate that over a season....

pudge
09-30-2004, 05:11 PM
You're the authority on amazing now? I can take any kind of comment you got, but calling me a northsider should get you banned, that's sick.

You are right, that was way too low for a fellow Sox fan... please accept my apologies.

As for being the authority on "amazing" - I'll accept that Pedro is not having the best of seasons, but I have seen Buehrle and Garcia enough to know they are not Pedro/Schilling or Wood/Prior or even Santana/Radke. The Sox and Mariners happen to be the two teams I follow the most, and I simply have never seen "amazing" (especially in terms of consistency) from either of those guys.

pudge
09-30-2004, 05:13 PM
Miguel Olivo homered in his first major league AB. Extrapolate that over a season....
This really irks me... none of the Friends of Reed are claiming he's going to be Willie Mays, but he showed incredible plate discipline at all levels, which very few young hitters do... those of us who think Reed might be something special have good reason to think so. For example, until Brian Anderson and Ryan Sweeney can display the same kind of discipline, I put zero stock in either one of them at this time.

jordan23ventura
09-30-2004, 11:28 PM
An unnamed source gave me the documents that prove this is true.

While some have criticized the legitimacy of these documents, no one has criticized the matter at the heart of the story.

We here at All-BS make no apologies for our reportings on this matter.
Documents, huh? So JR felt so bad about Borchard not living up to expectations that he put his deception of the White Sox fans IN WRITING and then released them to someone who would distribute them to the public? Man, that sounds too legit to quit.

batmanZoSo
10-01-2004, 12:23 AM
Documents, huh? So JR felt so bad about Borchard not living up to expectations that he put his deception of the White Sox fans IN WRITING and then released them to someone who would distribute them to the public? Man, that sounds too legit to quit.

http://www.vintageblues.com/the80s/mc_hammer.jpg
Hey..propa'

Ol' No. 2
10-01-2004, 09:05 AM
This really irks me... none of the Friends of Reed are claiming he's going to be Willie Mays, but he showed incredible plate discipline at all levels, which very few young hitters do... those of us who think Reed might be something special have good reason to think so. For example, until Brian Anderson and Ryan Sweeney can display the same kind of discipline, I put zero stock in either one of them at this time.From what I'm reading on this thread, it sounds to me that the Friends of Reed are getting awfully worked up over a few games' worth of AB, with the underlying motive nothing more than to find something to criticize Kenny Williams about. Granted, Reed did well in the minors, but Borchard had a pretty good year in the minors once, too, and Crede was the minor league Player of the Year TWICE, IIRC. Lots of players come into the league like a house afire, then, once they've gone through the league a couple of times, opposing pitchers figure out how to pitch to them and they come back down to earth, sometimes with a thud. Maybe Reed will turn into the next Willie Mays. I hope he does. But the operating word is maybe.

Garcia is one of the top pitchers in the AL and a legitimate front-of-the-rotation starter. There's no maybe about it. At the time, the Sox had a lot of OF, but they were desperate for pitching. They still do, and they still are, IMO. Pitching is the name of the game. Without it, a half-dozen Jeremy Reeds won't win. I didn't like giving up Reed and Olivo, either, but you don't get something for nothing. If what you're suggesting is that you shouldn't trade a couple of "maybe's" for an established stud pitcher, I have to respectfully disagree. Kenny has made some good moves and some not-so-good moves. IMO, this one was definately in the former category.

pudge
10-01-2004, 12:39 PM
From what I'm reading on this thread, it sounds to me that the Friends of Reed are getting awfully worked up over a few games' worth of AB, with the underlying motive nothing more than to find something to criticize Kenny Williams about. Granted, Reed did well in the minors, but Borchard had a pretty good year in the minors once, too, and Crede was the minor league Player of the Year TWICE, IIRC. Lots of players come into the league like a house afire, then, once they've gone through the league a couple of times, opposing pitchers figure out how to pitch to them and they come back down to earth, sometimes with a thud. Maybe Reed will turn into the next Willie Mays. I hope he does. But the operating word is maybe.


Again, I have to respectfully disagree, I've actually done a lengthy comparison of Reed with guys like Borchard and Crede and gone over why Reed is so much different than those guys.

Right now, you're right about the Reed lovers having some fodder to work with, because he's batting .440. I can tell you that the Mariners are thrilled with him, he's been a spark for the team, they've won 8 of 10 games he's started in CF.

Yeah it's still early, but, hasn't Reed already shown more on the MLB level than Borchard or Crede? And the reason being, he's a different player than both those guys, and was so in the minors as well.

JRIG
10-01-2004, 12:43 PM
From what I'm reading on this thread, it sounds to me that the Friends of Reed are getting awfully worked up over a few games' worth of AB, with the underlying motive nothing more than to find something to criticize Kenny Williams about.
No offense, but it's not a lengthy search to try to find something to criticize KW about.

balke
10-01-2004, 02:06 PM
Right now, you're right about the Reed lovers having some fodder to work with, because he's batting .440. I can tell you that the Mariners are thrilled with him, he's been a spark for the team, they've won 8 of 10 games he's started in CF.

Yeah it's still early, but, hasn't Reed already shown more on the MLB level than Borchard or Crede? And the reason being, he's a different player than both those guys, and was so in the minors as well.
Reed was 0-2 last night, and his Avg. Dipped 20 points, now .423, not .440. Came in w/ bases loaded to leave the bags full. Something to think about. 16 major league games. This is like a 20 game slump for this guy stretched over a season. I have more respect for the "Burke for Batting champ" joke, then the floating of "Tony Gwynn" Reed. He also has an error in the field, .976 Fielding %

It does look like he'll be a decent Outfielder, based on 16 games. I don't think He'll be a Maggs, we'll see. Doesn't change my opinion on the trade that we were desperate for pitching, and looking to have Maggs back in the lineup. Win NOW was the mindset. I'm just as happy having Garcia topping out the starting rotation, as I would be with Rowand/Reed/Lee. Either Rowand or Reed could be busts next season. Rowand less likely than Reed, but we'll see.

Let's not get our All-Star Reed Jerseys just yet. Give him some time to actually show something. IF Seattle believes he's such a great single/double slapper, maybe we can take Ichiro :wink:

Ol' No. 2
10-01-2004, 02:55 PM
Again, I have to respectfully disagree, I've actually done a lengthy comparison of Reed with guys like Borchard and Crede and gone over why Reed is so much different than those guys.

Right now, you're right about the Reed lovers having some fodder to work with, because he's batting .440. I can tell you that the Mariners are thrilled with him, he's been a spark for the team, they've won 8 of 10 games he's started in CF.

Yeah it's still early, but, hasn't Reed already shown more on the MLB level than Borchard or Crede? And the reason being, he's a different player than both those guys, and was so in the minors as well.I'm sure the Mariners are thrilled with him. I'd be thrilled with him, too. But I'm MORE thrilled to have Freddy Garcia, which is the bottom line here. The Sox had a bigger need for a top-of-the-rotation pitcher than they did for another OF prospect. And they weren't going to get Garcia for a batboy and a bag of practice balls. You have to give up something to get something. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

What bothers me about this deal, though, is that they almost certainly could have had Garcia last December for a lot less. The Mariners were very ambivalent about re-signing him, waiting until the last day. They almost certainly would have considered a trade, but KW was hamstrung by the salary limitations. If ever there was a time for Reiny to open the purse strings a little bit, that was it. In the end it cost them more. Penny wise, pound foolish.

jeremyb1
10-01-2004, 06:17 PM
I just find it ridiculous that people are screaming about sample size all of a sudden as though Reed had never set foot on a baseball field prior to his promotion. Reed had two minor league seasons under his belt that everyone wanted to pretend were meaningless when the deal went down. Take a look. They might shed some insight into how well he's performed for Seattle thus far.

OzzieBall2004
10-03-2004, 12:45 PM
FREDDY GARCIA IS THE BEST PITCHER ON THIS TEAM

Jeremy Reed is a call up getting hits in junk time.

Yeah getting hits against Oakland, Anaheim, and Texas isn't a big deal. After all, it was garbage time for all those teams. It's not like they were playing TO GET INTO THE FRIGGIN' PLAYOFFS.

OzzieBall2004
10-03-2004, 12:49 PM
Lots of guys do well when they're first called up.

Yeah, just ask Joe Borchard. He's excelled at the major league level.