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NSSoxFan2
09-28-2004, 08:53 PM
With the recent good play of Ross Gload, I am beginning tothink what KW is going to do. In my opinion KW is going to trade Konerko instead of CLee.

I wouldn't mind having Gload at 1B next year, give him a year to see what he can do, which I think he will hit 25+HR 80-100 RBI. That also leaves us with an outfield of Lee, Rowand(Beltran??), Everett(Rowand???) as an outfield. The only thing left would be SS. Since Crede will keep his position more than likely and Uribe at 2B.

What do you guys think?

Any of your ideas of what you think KW will do?

JB98
09-28-2004, 08:56 PM
With the recent good play of Ross Gload, I am beginning tothink what KW is going to do. In my opinion KW is going to trade Konerko instead of CLee.

I wouldn't mind having Gload at 1B next year, give him a year to see what he can do, which I think he will hit 25+HR 80-100 RBI. That also leaves us with an outfield of Lee, Rowand(Beltran??), Everett(Rowand???) as an outfield. The only thing left would be SS. Since Crede will keep his position more than likely and Uribe at 2B.

What do you guys think?

Any of your ideas of what you think KW will do?

I think KW will trade Konerko, and I will become very, very angry. I'm not fooled by what goes on in September. Gload is a nice player to have on the bench for pinch-hitting and a couple spot starts a week. I'd like to have him back next year, but not as the starting first baseman. I don't believe he will ever hit 25 HR at the big-league level. He is a poor man's Mark Grace.

misty60481
09-28-2004, 08:57 PM
NO we need PK in the line-up--I am all for keeping Gload but the last 2 weeks against the weakest teams in the weakest division shouldnt make anybody jump to conclusions about how good some of our players really are-------

NSSoxFan2
09-28-2004, 09:02 PM
I'm not basing my judgements about Gload on these last two weeks. Throughout the season in the spot starts he got and all the pinch hitting appearances he looked good out there. He seems to have a sweet stroke and a glove in the field that is the same as if not better than Konerko.

JB98
09-28-2004, 09:08 PM
I'm not basing my judgements about Gload on these last two weeks. Throughout the season in the spot starts he got and all the pinch hitting appearances he looked good out there. He seems to have a sweet stroke and a glove in the field that is the same as if not better than Konerko.

He's excelling in a part-time role, which is exactly the role he should be in. If you give him 150 starts, his weaknesses will be exposed.

MRKARNO
09-28-2004, 09:11 PM
Gload does not have a place on this team with the glut of outfielders etc. If we could trade him for a catcher that would be great.

munchman33
09-28-2004, 09:17 PM
a glove in the field that is the same as if not better than Konerko.
That's a joke right. He's better by default. I know guys in their fifties with better defensive skills than Konerko. The man has zero range. Anyone else saves the sox at least fifty runs. If there's no room for the guy at DH, he needs to go. Plain and simple. I'm sick of watching the Twin's punch and judy hitters push the ball passed him for the last three years.

NSSoxFan2
09-28-2004, 09:20 PM
You bring up a great point. I just had flashbacks of all the balls that should have been grabbed at first but were not. Especially when the TwinkieDome had the original carpet. It made me want to :whiner:

Flight #24
09-28-2004, 09:23 PM
He's excelling in a part-time role, which is exactly the role he should be in. If you give him 150 starts, his weaknesses will be exposed.
How can you say that when the great Jeremy Reed is doing the same thing and proving his dominance????:)





FYI - this is a joke, PLEASE let's not rehash all the myriad Reed/Garcia/KW threads.

Mohoney
09-28-2004, 09:24 PM
Anyone else saves the sox at least fifty runs.
Any 1B that saves any pitching staff 50 runs per year would be honored with a statue outside of every park, and MLB would waive the 5 year rule and immediately induct him in the hall of fame.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

joe47
09-28-2004, 09:31 PM
I think KW will trade Konerko, and I will become very, very angry. I'm not fooled by what goes on in September. Gload is a nice player to have on the bench for pinch-hitting and a couple spot starts a week. I'd like to have him back next year, but not as the starting first baseman. I don't believe he will ever hit 25 HR at the big-league level. He is a poor man's Mark Grace.
I think trading Konerko could be a good move, if were were able to say get two solid relief pitchers for him. I agree- we should not be fooled by Sept. numbers. Gload is a big downgrade from Paulie. However, Konerko is very inconsistent. Remember the first half of 2003? I love Paulie too, but he won't be with the Sox forever and I think KW should sell while his stock is high.

batmanZoSo
09-28-2004, 09:50 PM
With the recent good play of Ross Gload, I am beginning tothink what KW is going to do. In my opinion KW is going to trade Konerko instead of CLee.

I wouldn't mind having Gload at 1B next year, give him a year to see what he can do, which I think he will hit 25+HR 80-100 RBI. That also leaves us with an outfield of Lee, Rowand(Beltran??), Everett(Rowand???) as an outfield. The only thing left would be SS. Since Crede will keep his position more than likely and Uribe at 2B.

What do you guys think?

Any of your ideas of what you think KW will do?

I think trading Konerko instead of Lee is a better idea. Lee is more dependable I think. Well, I know. Just look at Konerko's last three seasons, it's been like a blooming rollercoaster. But also we don't really have a replacement for Lee but with Gload I think we can get by with him batting 8th or 9th, no big deal. Maybe get Brian Daubach back for under a mill. Those two can easily hold down the first base fort.

Then in two years you dump lee for the emerging Sweeney and/or Anderson or put Rowand in left..etc.

nodiggity59
09-28-2004, 09:53 PM
Beltran would be s great for this team. e would make me forget about CLee in a heartbeat. However, his presence would be the only reason I would get rid of CLee over Konerko.

Huisj
09-28-2004, 10:03 PM
gload is graffanino at a different position. real valuable part-timer, but as a starter he would be a weak spot.

batmanZoSo
09-28-2004, 10:10 PM
gload is graffanino at a different position. real valuable part-timer, but as a starter he would be a weak spot.

Everyone knows that. But Gload's presence means Konerko's gone, which means we free up money to fill other holes which will outweigh the loss in production from first base. This is a big time power team, losing 25 homers and 50 rbis won't kill us. Even without Maggs we still have a lot of power to go around. And remember with much better pitching, the need for all that power is reduced dramatically.

Mohoney
09-28-2004, 10:18 PM
This is a big time power team, losing 25 homers and 50 rbis won't kill us.
At a corner IF position, and with Useless Joe at 3B not picking up ANY of the slack, I think it will.

Remember, we're losing Valentin (at least I hope so).

If we're going to the AL East, Maggs, Paulie, and C Lee better ALL be back, or we're toast.

LauraJ14
09-28-2004, 11:53 PM
Wasn't there the same conversation about Jeff Liefer a couple of years ago when in a part time role he hit 15 homeruns which if projected over a full year would hit 40 home runs. Where is he now? Gload is not an everday player and if the Sox start thinking about their team for next year based on a couple of weeks in September, we are screwed. These guys are doing things when there is no pressure and playing not so good teams, where was this when we needed to win games in July and August to stay in the pennant race?
If you look at Konerko's career with the Sox since 1999, batting average .280, 25 homeruns, 100 RBI's, pretty consistent for 6 years don't you think? Tell me where to find another player with those kind of consistent numbers and not the " I play fantasy baseball so I could be a better GM than KW" statements.
I don't want to see either Konerko or Lee go, I want JR to spend money to make us a winner like other big market teams.

kitekrazy
09-28-2004, 11:57 PM
Wasn't there the same conversation about Jeff Liefer a couple of years ago when in a part time role he hit 15 homeruns which if projected over a full year would hit 40 home runs. Where is he now? Gload is not an everday player and if the Sox start thinking about their team for next year based on a couple of weeks in September, we are screwed. These guys are doing things when there is no pressure and playing not so good teams, where was this when we needed to win games in July and August to stay in the pennant race?
If you look at Konerko's career with the Sox since 1999, batting average .280, 25 homeruns, 100 RBI's, pretty consistent for 6 years don't you think? Tell me where to find another player with those kind of consistent numbers and not the " I play fantasy baseball so I could be a better GM than KW" statements.
I don't want to see either Konerko or Lee go, I want JR to spend money to make us a winner like other big market teams.
That's a great post. It all depends on what another GM is willing to give up to get Lee or Kornerko. If fans see all the negatives in a player what makes you think a MLB GM doesn't?

batmanZoSo
09-29-2004, 02:28 AM
At a corner IF position, and with Useless Joe at 3B not picking up ANY of the slack, I think it will.

Remember, we're losing Valentin (at least I hope so).

If we're going to the AL East, Maggs, Paulie, and C Lee better ALL be back, or we're toast.

Well we're not, nor were we ever. Assuming Maggs is a goner and we trade Konerko, we still have Thomas, Lee, Everett, Rowand with 25 and Uribe with 20. And hopefully Crede has a breakout year...and I don't mean an Adrian Beltre breakout year, just .270 25 85..god, is that too much to ask Joe? I know there are a lot of caveats there, but we're 12th in AL ERA and the only way to improve that is by sacrificing some payroll on offense. I don't care where we play, pitching comes first. A big part of the reason the Cell is the number one home run park is because A) anyone in the lineup except for catcher can hit anywhere from 20-45 homers B) a lot of our pitchers (including our top three starters) have the home run tendency. There's no reason we should be ahead of Coors, that's ridiculous. A little roof can't do that by itself.

batmanZoSo
09-29-2004, 02:36 AM
Wasn't there the same conversation about Jeff Liefer a couple of years ago when in a part time role he hit 15 homeruns which if projected over a full year would hit 40 home runs. Where is he now? Gload is not an everday player and if the Sox start thinking about their team for next year based on a couple of weeks in September, we are screwed. These guys are doing things when there is no pressure and playing not so good teams, where was this when we needed to win games in July and August to stay in the pennant race?
If you look at Konerko's career with the Sox since 1999, batting average .280, 25 homeruns, 100 RBI's, pretty consistent for 6 years don't you think? Tell me where to find another player with those kind of consistent numbers and not the " I play fantasy baseball so I could be a better GM than KW" statements.
I don't want to see either Konerko or Lee go, I want JR to spend money to make us a winner like other big market teams.

Well, yeah, everyone wants that. But JR is not going to retain everyone and then get Beltran. This thread is not philosophical or "this is how it SHOULD be done," it's asking how it WILL be done. The point is to think within a logical based on how the Sox do things. And I think some of the ideas here show that in theory with our constraints, we could still improve the team. The loss of Konerko for instance can be overshadowed by a competent Gload/Veteran platoon and Carl Pavano. I'd rather have Pavano and Konerko, but I'd rather have Beltran, Rivera and Jason Schmidt, too and I can just forget about that.

SSN721
09-29-2004, 06:40 AM
Wasn't there the same conversation about Jeff Liefer a couple of years ago when in a part time role he hit 15 homeruns which if projected over a full year would hit 40 home runs. Where is he now? Gload is not an everday player and if the Sox start thinking about their team for next year based on a couple of weeks in September, we are screwed. These guys are doing things when there is no pressure and playing not so good teams, where was this when we needed to win games in July and August to stay in the pennant race?
If you look at Konerko's career with the Sox since 1999, batting average .280, 25 homeruns, 100 RBI's, pretty consistent for 6 years don't you think? Tell me where to find another player with those kind of consistent numbers and not the " I play fantasy baseball so I could be a better GM than KW" statements.
I don't want to see either Konerko or Lee go, I want JR to spend money to make us a winner like other big market teams.

Konerkos numbers look good when averaged out over 5 years. But I cant help but remembering his godawful first half of 2003, second of 2002, and just his long streaks of doing nothing, his home/away splits. It is obvious that playing at Comiskey helps with his power numbers, on the road he doesnt seem to do nearly is well. I dont think his stock is ever going to be higher then it is right now. I like him a lot, he plays hard, always is accountable for his actions and just seems like a really good guy, but we need more pitching. I think that Gload is a definite downgrade but with the rest of the power on this team we can afford to trade him for pitching. As long as we hold onto Lee. And I would rather keep Lee over Konerko. But I would like to keep them both if we could. But would still rather have stronger pitching and live with Gload.

SOXSINCE'70
09-29-2004, 07:26 AM
Just remember this, Sox fans:The Tigers,Indians and Twinkies will start the 2005 season with the arrow pointing upwards.The Tigers and Tribe will be in the FA market this year,no question.Both teams will be better in 2005.And the Twins lose a FA,plug in a minor leaguer (or make a trade) and don't miss a beat.
The Sox start the 2005 season with the arrow pointing downward.Their "window of opportunity" to win the Central and get to the WS decreases dramatically.Unless JR gives KW permission to go out and be a major player in the FA market (yeah,right) or make more trades (hopefully that don't fleece our minor league system too much more),I don't see a pleasant 2005 season on the South Side.:(: :(: :(: :(:

Just my opinion.

wdelaney72
09-29-2004, 07:43 AM
I agree that Gload is an offensieve downgrade, but he's still serviceable. I'm OK with dealking Paulie ONLY if KW can get good value in return.

I would rather have Gload at first if it means we can upgrade any of the following...
1. pitching
2. SS
3 3B
4. 2B
5. C

I'm also in the committee of folks who remember PK 2003. Ugh!

Any talk of C. Lee being traded is ridiculous. He's exactly the type of player Ozzie wants on his team. He hits for average CONSISTENTLY, he has power, he plays good defense, and he doesn't clog the bases. Under NO circumstances does he get traded.

munchman33
09-29-2004, 10:16 AM
Any 1B that saves any pitching staff 50 runs per year would be honored with a statue outside of every park, and MLB would waive the 5 year rule and immediately induct him in the hall of fame.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Not when you consider how many balls get within two feet of Paulie that he simply does not have the reaction time/speed to reach. That's what is really ridiculous. I went to almost every home game this year (went to 70), and I've been doing a running count of the balls that get by him that an average defensive first basemen would get to (I know its my opinion, but if you looked at the film I'm sure you be saying the same thing). I guess I was inspired by his lax play last year. Anyway, that total for this season was 43. 43 extra singles in just 70 games. I don't think its a stretch to assert that, at minimum, he's cost us 50 runs this season.

HITMEN OF 77
09-29-2004, 11:20 AM
at minimum, he's cost us 50 runs this season.
He's knocked in over 110, so I consider it a wash. Getting rid of Konerko is not the answer. I like Gload, but he's not going to hit .280 30+ hr and 100+ rbi. If we lose Maggs, then we need to keep Paulie. If we want pitching, dump Valentine and take his money and go out and get someone.

munchman33
09-29-2004, 09:32 PM
He's knocked in over 110, so I consider it a wash.
I don't. His knocking in 110 is the same as an average defensive 1B getting 60. And their are plenty average defensive 1B who get way more than that.

munchman33
09-29-2004, 09:34 PM
If we want pitching, dump Valentine and take his money and go out and get someone.
Valentin is a FA who will not return. However, the money from his salary next year has already been spent. If our budget is the same next year, we're pretty much at it.

nodiggity59
09-29-2004, 09:41 PM
What kind of payroll would it take to keep CLee and Konerko, dump Valentin and Maggs, but still spend approximately $10-12mil on improvements? Maybe $75mil total? (correct me if I'm wrong) Too bad we can't have that.

Too bad my expectations are so low.

balke
09-30-2004, 11:23 AM
This thread is my pipedream, but that seems to be all it is.

We are losing a power guy or two. One will be good, but I am afraid it is finally going to be CLee. Teams have been drooling over Clee for years, and we've stuck with him. THere was an article on MLB.com about this might be Clee's last year. They are pretty good about giving hints to the sox' future. Last season, they came out and said Flash was gone before the end of the season, before negotiations had started.

I love CLee's play a lot more. He's consistant, and gets better each year. What he brings in a trade should be huge, but I suspect it won't be. This offseason is looking to be scary. I don't have faith in following Billy Beane's philosophy. I like the team we started with this season, just minus Valentin and + a pitcher and bullpen. I already believe next year to be disappointing in the roster holes left on the field.

Palehose13
09-30-2004, 11:29 AM
I agree that Gload is an offensieve downgrade, but he's still serviceable. I'm OK with dealking Paulie ONLY if KW can get good value in return.

I would rather have Gload at first if it means we can upgrade any of the following...
1. pitching
2. SS
3 3B
4. 2B
5. C

I'm also in the committee of folks who remember PK 2003. Ugh!

Any talk of C. Lee being traded is ridiculous. He's exactly the type of player Ozzie wants on his team. He hits for average CONSISTENTLY, he has power, he plays good defense, and he doesn't clog the bases. Under NO circumstances does he get traded.
I agree with this post 110%.

Now, for those who are doubting Gload...weren't the same things said about A-Row not so long ago.

HITMEN OF 77
09-30-2004, 11:38 AM
Valentin is a FA who will not return. However, the money from his salary next year has already been spent. If our budget is the same next year, we're pretty much at it.
Who did we spend JV's money on? Freddy G?

MisterB
09-30-2004, 11:53 AM
Who did we spend JV's money on? Freddy G?
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40529

Read posts 7-10. The $19M 'Maggs and Jose' money is spoken for.

woodenleg
09-30-2004, 06:08 PM
This thread is my pipedream, but that seems to be all it is.

We are losing a power guy or two. One will be good, but I am afraid it is finally going to be CLee. Teams have been drooling over Clee for years, and we've stuck with him. THere was an article on MLB.com about this might be Clee's last year. They are pretty good about giving hints to the sox' future. Last season, they came out and said Flash was gone before the end of the season, before negotiations had started.

I love CLee's play a lot more. He's consistant, and gets better each year. What he brings in a trade should be huge, but I suspect it won't be. This offseason is looking to be scary. I don't have faith in following Billy Beane's philosophy. I like the team we started with this season, just minus Valentin and + a pitcher and bullpen. I already believe next year to be disappointing in the roster holes left on the field.
One thing that was weird about that article, though, was that it said Lee would be the 'odd man out'.