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View Full Version : Jose Guillen seems like KW's kind of pickup


SoxxoS
09-27-2004, 05:34 PM
He probably isn't going to play anymore game with the Angels. I don't have his contract info (if someone could pull that up, that would be great) but from JR's perspective, he is cheap...making only 2.2 million this year.

KW also loves the Dominican/Venezuelan infulence Ozzie can have on players...making them more comfortable.

That being said, if he is under contract...we can offer them CLee...but since we have the upper hand b/c the Angels wants Guillen out, we could get a good prospect or two. I know KW also has an infatuation with Washburn and Erstad...so that could be an option as well.

Ideas, comments?

balke
09-27-2004, 05:36 PM
As much as I defend KW's Trades, I will go from supporter to frequent complainer if we Trade Carlos. He's been a solid ballplayer for us, and still has his legs. Guillen's not a bad pickup, but I'd be left disappointed at that kind of trade, prpospects or not.

nodiggity59
09-27-2004, 05:38 PM
How about we offer Carl and some prospects? I'll do anything to be rid of Carl at this point.

SoxxoS
09-27-2004, 05:41 PM
How about we offer Carl and some prospects? I'll do anything to be rid of Carl at this point.
I think we can trade him to Texas...Showwalter loves him. I would love to acquire Soriano some how. Some people don't like him, but he is a solid player with speed. Want more speed on this team? Soriano's your guy.

MRKARNO
09-27-2004, 05:42 PM
As much as I defend KW's Trades, I will go from supporter to frequent complainer if we Trade Carlos. He's been a solid ballplayer for us, and still has his legs. Guillen's not a bad pickup, but I'd be left disappointed at that kind of trade, prpospects or not.
Prepare to become a frequent complainer.

balke
09-27-2004, 05:43 PM
Prepare to become a frequent complainer.I am. A sweet deal for Pitching, or Pitcher + SS will quell prevent it. But if we're just going for a SS, I'd rather see
:walnuts

go

..... not to start that fight again. Just saying. I'm very Pro Clee this season.

shagar69
09-27-2004, 05:59 PM
I think we can trade him to Texas...Showwalter loves him. I would love to acquire Soriano some how. Some people don't like him, but he is a solid player with speed. Want more speed on this team? Soriano's your guy.
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: youre joking right? a below average, old, injury prone OF for one of the best players in the game?!! no way unless you give them a top prospect like mccarthy or sweeney, or anderson

MRKARNO
09-27-2004, 06:07 PM
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: youre joking right? a below average, old, injury prone OF for one of the best players in the game?!! no way unless you give them a top prospect like mccarthy or sweeney, or anderson
Carl may be a "STRETCH!", but more likely than not, Soriano will be traded despite being the best offensive 2B in baseball this year. They dislike his error prone defense, his high strikeout rate and his low OBP. This year he was essentialyl Juan Uribe with a few more home runs, steals and much worse defense. I'll take a pass on Soriano.

shagar69
09-27-2004, 06:10 PM
Carl may be a "STRETCH!", but more likely than not, Soriano will be traded despite being the best offensive 2B in baseball this year. They dislike his error prone defense, his high strikeout rate and his low OBP. This year he was essentialyl Juan Uribe with a few more home runs, steals and much worse defense. I'll take a pass on Soriano.
i dont know about that. yeah he had a bad season for his standards, but he is still an unbelievble talent who doesnt make a lot of money. if he could be had for a PK i would do it.

Jjav829
09-27-2004, 06:13 PM
i dont know about that. yeah he had a bad season for his standards, but he is still an unbelievble talent who doesnt make a lot of money. if he could be had for a PK i would do it.
If you consider $7.4 million not making a lot of money, sure. I don't want Soriano. The 20-25 SB's are not worth his free-swinging, no defense act. If we're looking for a 2B who can steal, Jerry Hairston Jr. would be much cheaper, would get on base more, and provide better defense.

HITMEN OF 77
09-27-2004, 06:34 PM
i dont know about that. yeah he had a bad season for his standards, but he is still an unbelievble talent who doesnt make a lot of money. if he could be had for a PK i would do it.
I don't see the Sox trading for ANY infielders. We have Valentine, Harris, Uribe, Alomar and getting rid of Paulie for RS would be stupid!! I'd dump Alomar, Crede or Harris.

batmanZoSo
09-27-2004, 06:39 PM
He probably won't be making 2.2 million for long. This is his second big year in a row. Lee is the better hitter of the two. Guillen walks less, strikes out more and Lee bests him in obp, slugging, homers and average.

It depends on how much Guillen's due to make next year and what we give up to get him. They certainly don't want Lee who right now makes three times as much money. If we don't have to give up top prospects and we'd be saving 3 million at least it would be worth it.

bigfoot
09-27-2004, 07:10 PM
He probably won't be making 2.2 million for long. This is his second big year in a row. Lee is the better hitter of the two. Guillen walks less, strikes out more and Lee bests him in obp, slugging, homers and average.

It depends on how much Guillen's due to make next year and what we give up to get him. They certainly don't want Lee who right now makes three times as much money. If we don't have to give up top prospects and we'd be saving 3 million at least it would be worth it.
Looks like $3.8m(signed 2 year deal worth $6m-$2.2 this year).
~Also looks like a huge head case, 7 team since coming up in '97(does not include the Rockies, who he demanded and got a trade to the D-backs)
~ESPN scouting reports says he is a poor fielder, with a strong arm, with several OF assists and even more errors(smell the odor of Northside Sammy here?).
~Speedy but doesn't steal bases(5), CS (4)
~Those mopes on ESPN were half-stepping around a question of "team chemistry" regarding the Angels, the other day. Would this latest incident be at least part of that answer?
~Bottom line: The price is right, probably could be had for a very reasonable trade scenerio. Don't expect steady play in the field, though occassional flashes of brilliance. With Maggs' $ available, $3.8m for a corner OF pos with these offensive #'s is rare. But the Sox may have to hire an extra porter to carry all the baggage.
~Still,...... the biggest question/s have yet to be addresssed......
What about the pitching?

santo=dorf
09-27-2004, 07:12 PM
He probably isn't going to play anymore game with the Angels. I don't have his contract info (if someone could pull that up, that would be great) but from JR's perspective, he is cheap...making only 2.2 million this year.

KW also loves the Dominican/Venezuelan infulence Ozzie can have on players...making them more comfortable.

That being said, if he is under contract...we can offer them CLee...but since we have the upper hand b/c the Angels wants Guillen out, we could get a good prospect or two. I know KW also has an infatuation with Washburn and Erstad...so that could be an option as well.

Ideas, comments?
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40507

I started it yesterday. :yup:

Lip Man 1
09-27-2004, 07:25 PM
Who's Valentine?

By the way whoever he is, is a free agent and probably won't be back.

Lip

shagar69
09-27-2004, 07:30 PM
Who's Valentine?

By the way whoever he is, is a free agent and probably won't be back.

Lip
no, he isnt a player! he used to be the manager of the mets and now manages in japan!

shagar69
09-27-2004, 07:31 PM
If you consider $7.4 million not making a lot of money, sure. I don't want Soriano. The 20-25 SB's are not worth his free-swinging, no defense act. If we're looking for a 2B who can steal, Jerry Hairston Jr. would be much cheaper, would get on base more, and provide better defense. he can and would of stolen 40 bags had showalter been an agressive manager. playing in the cell, i have NO DOUBT that he would have AT LEAST a 30 30 season

OEO Magglio
09-27-2004, 07:42 PM
he can and would of stolen 40 bags had showalter been an agressive manager. playing in the cell, i have NO DOUBT that he would have AT LEAST a 30 30 season
However he's an absolutely horrendous defender, just because he's fast that doesn't necessarily make him an "ozzieball player," he's still a swing for the fences guy who doesn't play much small ball, strikes out way to much and is a terrible defensive 2b.

Mohoney
09-27-2004, 07:48 PM
However he's an absolutely horrendous defender, just because he's fast that doesn't necessarily make him an "ozzieball player," he's still a swing for the fences guy who doesn't play much small ball, strikes out way to much and is a terrible defensive 2b.
That's why we turn around and deal him to the Yankees for bullpen help.

Make it a three way trade.

Rex Hudler
09-28-2004, 01:59 AM
Jose Guillen is not the kind of player the Sox need. There is a reason he has played for six teams in the past six years.

misty60481
09-28-2004, 08:54 AM
Jose Guillen = Carl Everette==7.8 million tied up in 2 nipple heads if KW does this he belongs in the same boat----

PaulDrake
09-28-2004, 10:04 AM
Jose Guillen is not the kind of player the Sox need. There is a reason he has played for six teams in the past six years. In an era of selfish Leon style prima donnas in sports, Jose Guillen is considered a severe head case.

AddisonStSox
09-28-2004, 10:22 AM
Who's Valentine?

By the way whoever he is, is a free agent and probably won't be back.

Lip

Seems like you knew exactly who he was talking about.

People make typing errors, get over it.

http://www.antiqbuyer.com/images/wrench/g_wrench.jpg

Tool.

infohawk
09-28-2004, 11:24 AM
If you consider $7.4 million not making a lot of money, sure. I don't want Soriano. The 20-25 SB's are not worth his free-swinging, no defense act.
The above statement pretty well sums it up.

Here are some key career statistics for two players:

Player A
.321 OBP
11% BB Rate
.452 Slugging %
.773 OPS


Player B
.323 OBP
5% BB Rate
.498 Slugging %
.820 OPS



Player A is none other than our own Jose Valentin while player B is Alfonso Soriano. While both players have some definitive skills, I would respectfully submit that neither is the kind of player the Sox need.

To a certain extent, both Valentin and Soriano are similar types of players. Offensively, neither player draws many walks, they reach base at similar rates and have as their primary value the ability to hit for power. An argument can be made that Soriano's better slugging number is offset by Valentin's better defense. Soriano is a pretty atrocious defender while Valentin is a bit underrated because his better than average range allows him to get to some balls other shortstops do not make plays on. Soriano can steal many more bases than Valentin but doesn't reach base enough to maximize his base-stealing ability. Finally, Soriano earned $7.4 million in 2004 while Valentin earned $5 million. Valentin is a better buy for a team seeking the kind of offensive skills offered by Valentin or Soriano.

Some may argue that Soriano is younger and can only get better. In my opinion the Sox need to avoid acquiring expensive players with "potential" who may never really improve and instead acquire players who already meet certain expectations. I'm not trying to denigrate either Soriano or Valentin. Both players have definitive skills that could help certain teams. My contention, however, is that both players are examples of a kind of player that the Sox simply don't need. Better to use the money saved toward acquiring another quality starter or improving the bullpen.

A. Cavatica
09-28-2004, 02:15 PM
:KW

"Jose Guillen as player/manager sounds good to me!"

shagar69
09-28-2004, 02:21 PM
That's why we turn around and deal him to the Yankees for bullpen help.

Make it a three way trade.
wow! you people really undervaluing soriano!! first you say that we can get him for everett. than you say that we should trade him, for BULLPEN HELP!!???! look at these number: 02- 39 hrs, 102 rbis, 41 SB's, .300 avg, 03-35 hrs, 38 SB's, .290 avg. To get this guy IMO you would have to give up AT LEAST a garland and a top 10 prospect in the organization. and if you wanna trade him to the yankees it damn well better for rivera!