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View Full Version : What should be Garland's spot in the rotation for 2005?


santo=dorf
09-27-2004, 04:14 PM
I'm all for trading him and signing a quality FA pitcher to be our #3. I think Felix is capable of doing a decent job in the #5 spot.

Buehrle
Garcia
FA
Contreras
Diaz

doublem23
09-27-2004, 04:25 PM
If Felix Diaz is our number 5 we may as well just start looking forward to '06. :angry:

mdep524
09-27-2004, 04:29 PM
I'm all for trading him and signing a quality FA pitcher to be our #3. I think Felix is capable of doing a decent job in the #5 spot.

Buehrle
Garcia
FA
Contreras
Diaz
Honestly, I am more worried about Contreras than I am about Garland.

jeremyb1
09-27-2004, 04:45 PM
Honestly, I am more worried about Contreras than I am about Garland.

Hehe. Yeah the big problem I had when I started thinking is where to put Contreras. Since he's making 6 million and the club agreed to take on that salary just a few months ago, it seems harder to consider him to be our four or five. The top three have to be Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras. People are talking about signing another starter but where does this money come from? It's been pretty well established that there's next to no considerable money to spend unless we move Konerko or Lee's salary (which obviously creates wholes which need to be filled). I think Garland isn't any worse than a mediocre number four so I guess I'd look at the usual suspects in Diaz and Cotts, some non-roster invitees, and perhaps McCarthy if he really blows peoples' socks off in the Spring although I doubt he's ready. The bottom line is that with my impression of the financial flexibility we're going to have, we don't have 2 to 3 million to drop on another starter with question marks at 3B, 2B (assuming we can count on Uribe as the everday SS), and C at a minimum. I realize some people shudder at the thought of Diaz in the rotation but a lineup where half our regulars are Burke, Uribe, Crede, and Harris worries me much more.

santo=dorf
09-27-2004, 04:50 PM
People are talking about signing another starter but where does this money come from? It's been pretty well established that there's next to no considerable money to spend unless we move Konerko or Lee's salary (which obviously creates wholes which need to be filled).
Valentin frees up 5 million, and Koch frees up 6.375 million. Can we really afford to pay our #5 starter 3-4 million?

OEO Magglio
09-27-2004, 04:50 PM
Imo Garland should be the 5th starter next year. Sure the guy is annoying at times to watch pitch because he has the potential to be a top of the rotation guy but he's still a very quality 5th starter and next year we need a good rotation 1-5 not 1-4.

jeremyb1
09-27-2004, 05:01 PM
Valentin frees up 5 million, and Koch frees up 6.375 million. Can we really afford to pay our #5 starter 3-4 million?

That money is just about entirely consumed by raises and the money paid to Garcia and Contreras IIRC.

santo=dorf
09-27-2004, 05:06 PM
That money is just about entirely consumed by raises and the money paid to Garcia and Contreras IIRC.No, that would be Maggs' money.

Garcia will make 8 million and Contreras will make 6 million.

6 + 8 =14 :cool:

You think we'll be spending 11 million in raises to Uribe, Rowand, Crede?:?:

balke
09-27-2004, 05:28 PM
I don't think "save money" and "trade Garland" should be part of the same option.

Garland is a suitable #4-5. He admitted he hasn't done great. I think he's pitched better than .500 with the way he's lost some games, but he is .500 and that's not the sox biggest problem right now at what he costs.

MisterB
09-27-2004, 05:39 PM
No, that would be Maggs' money.

Garcia will make 8 million and Contreras will make 6 million.

6 + 8 =14 :cool:

You think we'll be spending 11 million in raises to Uribe, Rowand, Crede?:?:$2M raise for Lee. $2M raise for Thomas. $2M raise for Buehrle. Everett up to $4M. Plus Marte and Takatsu. That money's already gone...

Mohoney
09-27-2004, 05:52 PM
$2M raise for Lee. $2M raise for Thomas. $2M raise for Buehrle. Everett up to $4M. Plus Marte and Takatsu. That money's already gone...
Trade Everett. Please trade Everett.

DrCrawdad
09-27-2004, 06:00 PM
Trade Everett. Please trade Everett.

As a free agent last year the only team that wanted him was friggin Montreal. The only way Everett is going somewhere else is if the Sox straight release him or if they package him in a trade.

batmanZoSo
09-27-2004, 06:23 PM
I'm all for trading him and signing a quality FA pitcher to be our #3. I think Felix is capable of doing a decent job in the #5 spot.

Buehrle
Garcia
FA
Contreras
Diaz

I would give Garland one more year. Why not? we've stuck it out long enough already. He's making something like 3 mill next year (?) so ideally we would trade him and let a cheaper guy step in and put up a .500 record like Garland. But the thing is everyone we put in there sucks. We have no other option that we can depend on. At least we know Garland isn't gonna get worse, he can only get better. As is, he's a quality 5th starter (that's relatively speaking).

MRKARNO
09-27-2004, 06:41 PM
Garland is exactly the type of pitcher you want as a fifth starter. He can give you 200 innings and post an ERA between 4.50 and 5.25. If he costs less than 3.5 million then he's totally worth it. Diaz would probably do worse because he's a flyball pitcher and this park is biased against flyball pitchers. There's always the chance that he could break out next year (it is his contract year after all) and we are in a really good spot.

jeremyb1
09-28-2004, 04:40 AM
No, that would be Maggs' money.

Garcia will make 8 million and Contreras will make 6 million.

6 + 8 =14 :cool:

You think we'll be spending 11 million in raises to Uribe, Rowand, Crede?:?:

Dude, I'm somewhat offended if you're not going to even accept enough accountability to read the other threads on payroll and examine the facts regarding raises yourself. Uribe, Rowand, and Crede (as well as Garland) are arbitration elligible and figure to earn raises but Buehrle, Lee, Konerko, Politte and Shingo (assuming his option is picked up) are guaranteed substantial raises which add up to quite a bit of money. 11 million in raises to 9 players is very little especially when at least half that figure is guaranteed.

santo=dorf
09-28-2004, 11:49 AM
Dude, I'm somewhat offended if you're not going to even accept enough accountability to read the other threads on payroll and examine the facts regarding raises yourself. Uribe, Rowand, and Crede (as well as Garland) are arbitration elligible and figure to earn raises but Buehrle, Lee, Konerko, Politte and Shingo (assuming his option is picked up) are guaranteed substantial raises which add up to quite a bit of money. 11 million in raises to 9 players is very little especially when at least half that figure is guaranteed.
I don't read every thread, and I don't care if you get offended by it. I know we're not keeping Lee and Konerko for next season. I'm assuming the money will be there from trading one of the two.

And speaking of reading threads to accept acountabililty, I answered your question about Seattle not wanting Joe Borchard. Someone ask BA (probably you) why the Sox didn't trade Borchard instead of Reed, and BA said to think that perhaps Borchard wasn't wanted by Seattle. Hence, he wasn't an option for KW.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40402&page=2&pp=40

kraut83
09-28-2004, 01:10 PM
Garland is exactly the type of pitcher you want as a fifth starter. He can give you 200 innings and post an ERA between 4.50 and 5.25. If he costs less than 3.5 million then he's totally worth it. Diaz would probably do worse because he's a flyball pitcher and this park is biased against flyball pitchers. There's always the chance that he could break out next year (it is his contract year after all) and we are in a really good spot.
Agreed, I think most teams would kill to have JG at the back of their rotation. If we can pick up at least a middle of the rotation guy, that will be a long step toward curing the #5 problem.

jeremyb1
09-28-2004, 03:10 PM
I don't read every thread, and I don't care if you get offended by it. I know we're not keeping Lee and Konerko for next season. I'm assuming the money will be there from trading one of the two.

It's not an issue of failing to read every thread. It's posts that come off as condescending without the facts. If you don't know everything and don't read all the threads that's fine, just don't act like I'm being illogical as a result of it. I said we owed a bunch of money in raises and without checking you just assumed that only Crede, Garland, and Uribe. Why not post "Really? Do we owe raises to more than Crede, Garland, and Uribe" instead of "You think we'll be spending 11 million on raises to Crede, Garland, and Uribe?" if you're unsure.

And speaking of reading threads to accept acountabililty, I answered your question about Seattle not wanting Joe Borchard. Someone ask BA (probably you) why the Sox didn't trade Borchard instead of Reed, and BA said to think that perhaps Borchard wasn't wanted by Seattle. Hence, he wasn't an option for KW.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40402&page=2&pp=40[/QUOTE]

I'm on it. Thanks.

owensmouth
09-28-2004, 07:42 PM
Why is it that everyone thinks that Uribe, Rowand, Crede and Garland are gonna be getting pay raises just because they are arbitration eligible? Rowand, I agree, is headed for a nice payraise, probably a multiyear contract. Neither Garland nor Crede has earned a bump in pay, and that's why they should not get one. Uribe deserves a modest increase. Should Garland, Crede or Uribe go for the arbitration route, they will be hard pressed to explain away the poor parts of their seasons.

Daver
09-28-2004, 07:46 PM
Should Garland, Crede or Uribe go for the arbitration route, they will be hard pressed to explain away the poor parts of their seasons.
They don't have a choice, they can take the team's initial offer, or they can go to arbitration. They have no other options.

jeremyb1
09-28-2004, 08:16 PM
Neither Garland nor Crede has earned a bump in pay, and that's why they should not get one. Uribe deserves a modest increase. Should Garland, Crede or Uribe go for the arbitration route, they will be hard pressed to explain away the poor parts of their seasons.

True but players typically make more money every season in arbitration because their service time increases.

Daver
09-28-2004, 08:27 PM
True but players typically make more money every season in arbitration because their service time increases.
That is not typical, and that is not how the arbitration process for non-eligible F/A's works. The player can accept the clubs initial offer, which can be anything above or below the previous salary, as long as it complies with the CBA's payroll parameters, or he can refuse it and go to arbitration. If they go to arbitration an arbitor compares the current offer against the previous salary, and listens to the case from both sides, then comes up with a settlement based on those numbers.

Mark Buerhle took a paycut twice in arbitration because he refused to accept the teams offer of a multi-year deal.