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duke of dorwood
10-06-2001, 10:24 PM
:nardi

Time to launch me?

Daver
10-06-2001, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood


Time to launch me?

Don't get me started.

Viva Magglio
10-07-2001, 07:38 PM
:jerry
What about launching me?

Daver
10-07-2001, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
:jerry
What about launching me?

Lets see'the team was 15 games under before the break and finished above .500 and you want to fire the manager?

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by daver
Lets see'the team was 15 games under before the break and finished above .500 and you want to fire the manager?

I can't speak for Viva but from what I have gathered people believe that the team wins games inspite of Manuel. And that if he would have benched Juilo, Royce and Harold that the team wouldn't have been 15 under.

Daver
10-07-2001, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I can't speak for Viva but from what I have gathered people believe that the team wins games inspite of Manuel. And that if he would have benched Juilo, Royce and Harold that the team wouldn't have been 15 under.

OK then,you want to fire the manager for trying to be loyal to the players and give them some confidence,yep it makes sense to me.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by daver
OK then,you want to fire the manager for trying to be loyal to the players and give them some confidence,yep it makes sense to me.

But then again what the hell do I know?

This is a fight I can't win so I'll let you have the last word.

duke of dorwood
10-07-2001, 08:17 PM
He just doesn't react. Yeah we came back from 15 under, but lost a lot of games we could have won. This thing was there even if we spotted them 15 games. Maybe I overrate the talent, but the strategy and reluctance to make moves still hurt.

KempersRS
10-07-2001, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by daver


OK then,you want to fire the manager for trying to be loyal to the players and give them some confidence,yep it makes sense to me.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Jerry is not loyal, he is a coward. He does more to please his whiny players than do what is best for the team.

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
Jerry is not loyal, he is a coward. He does more to please his whiny players than do what is best for the team.


Good call Mr. Positive. Daver likes to say "That dog just wont hunt" when talking about Kip Wells. He should use the same phrase for our manager.

Daver
10-07-2001, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


Jerry is not loyal, he is a coward. He does more to please his whiny players than do what is best for the team.

I disagree,if that was the case we finish below .500.

But then again what the hell do I know?

KempersRS
10-07-2001, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by daver


I disagree,if that was the case we finish below .500.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Well, I will disagree right back. HE was a huge part of being 15 games under to start the season. That should have never happened, but when you fiddle with the lineups day in and day out, and play Harold Baines, Julio Ramirez, and Royce Clayton on a normal basis, you are at fault. Clayton complains, he stays in. Singleton complains, he stays in. I don't remember Harold ever complaining, but it was just flat out stupid to play him at all. How about Ray batting 3rd, or Royce in the 2-hole? Baines behind Konerko in the line-up?

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
How about Ray batting 3rd, or Royce in the 2-hole?


Well in defense of Manuel Durham was hitting the cover off the ball in the 3rd spot. He saw a lot more fastballs batting in front of Magglio. I think with Royce he thought hitting in front of Magglio or whoever hit 3rd that day would get him more fastballs to hit.

KempersRS
10-07-2001, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



Well in defense of Manuel Durham was hitting the cover off the ball in the 3rd spot. He saw a lot more fastballs batting in front of Magglio. I think with Royce he thought hitting in front of Magglio or whoever hit 3rd that day would get him more fastballs to hit.

I think Ray was just on one of his short hot streaks that he tends to have. I remember him hitting well in the 3-spot for the first few games, but he quickly cooled. Royce in the top of the order just makes zero sense.

Daver
10-07-2001, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


Well, I will disagree right back. HE was a huge part of being 15 games under to start the season. That should have never happened, but when you fiddle with the lineups day in and day out, and play Harold Baines, Julio Ramirez, and Royce Clayton on a normal basis, you are at fault. Clayton complains, he stays in. Singleton complains, he stays in. I don't remember Harold ever complaining, but it was just flat out stupid to play him at all. How about Ray batting 3rd, or Royce in the 2-hole? Baines behind Konerko in the line-up?

Since when does Jerry have control over the players on the roster?

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
I think Ray was just on one of his short hot streaks that he tends to have. I remember him hitting well in the 3-spot for the first few games, but he quickly cooled. Royce in the top of the order just makes zero sense.

Ah yes the Ol' Ray Durham Hot Streak!
Mr. Positive don't you think if Royce hit in the 2 hole with Thomas in the 3rd hole he would hit better? I think he would, he would see easier pitches. Not that I want him back next year but you have to be fair to the guy.

KempersRS
10-07-2001, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by daver


Since when does Jerry have control over the players on the roster?

Thats true, yes, Kenny Williams made some bad moves, but Jerry Manuel makes the lineups, and they very poorly organized. They BOTH did a poor job if you ask me. Maybe Jerry had something to do with motivating them as the season went on, but he helped put them in the hole too.

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by daver
Since when does Jerry have control over the players on the roster?

Well with Clayton he did not. But I think he had a say on if Juilo made the team. Harold had a good spring. If Liefer would have had a good spring he would have made the team over Baines in my opinion.

KempersRS
10-07-2001, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Ah yes the Ol' Ray Durham Hot Streak!
Mr. Positive don't you think if Royce hit in the 2 hole with Thomas in the 3rd hole he would hit better? I think he would, he would see easier pitches. Not that I want him back next year but you have to be fair to the guy.

Thats true, but you don't put someone in front of a good hitter to make that person better. You take someone who is already a good hitter and make him a great hitter. I don't want to make Royce a better hitter by letting Frank bat behind him, I want someone who can already hit to become a great hitter because of Frank hitting behind him.

Daver
10-07-2001, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Well with Clayton he did not. But I think he had a say on if Juilo made the team. Harold had a good spring. If Liefer would have had a good spring he would have made the team over Baines in my opinion.

Harold had a good spring?

News to me.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
Thats true, but you don't put someone in front of a good hitter to make that person better. You take someone who is already a good hitter and make him a great hitter. I don't want to make Royce a better hitter by letting Frank bat behind him, I want someone who can already hit to become a great hitter because of Frank hitting behind him.

Don't get me wrong I agree 100% with your thinking. I was just offering a reason as to why Jerry would bat him 2nd.

Jerry_Manuel
10-07-2001, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by daver
Harold had a good spring?


I don't have the stats in front of me Daver. So I'll just say this he had a better spring then Liefer did.

oldcomiskey
10-07-2001, 08:59 PM
if the Sox win thw world series anytime soon would it be in spite of Jerry too

MikeKreevich
10-07-2001, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by daver


Since when does Jerry have control over the players on the roster?

Let's not confuse the issue. The former "Manager of the Year" should make the most of the cards he was dealt. Again, Gandi should not get credit for bringing the sox back from 15 games under. He was a major factor in their getting to 15 under. After he stopped shuffling the lineup and playing three players,batting around .100 in the same lineup, the sox started playing like we thought they should. This is a team, despite all the injuries this year, that shouldl have a winning record. They wound up with a winning record despite Manuel!

Daver
10-07-2001, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat


Let's not confuse the issue. The former "Manager of the Year" should make the most of the cards he was dealt. Again, Gandi should not get credit for bringing the sox back from 15 games under. He was a major factor in their getting to 15 under. After he stopped shuffling the lineup and playing three players,batting around .100 in the same lineup, the sox started playing like we thought they should. This is a team, despite all the injuries this year, that shouldl have a winning record. They wound up with a winning record despite Manuel!

Let us agree to disagree on that,with Terry Beavington this team is 30 games under.

doublem23
10-07-2001, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
:jerry
What about launching me?

Naw. Next year is the test for JM.... This team was absolutely riddled by injuries, and yet they managed to finish 83-79. Not that I'm all that peachy with what happened, but this team should be extremely competitive in 2002.

Joel Perez
10-09-2001, 01:07 PM
I agree with DoubleM23...this year caused JM to be "coocoo en la cabeza", too much tinkering, not enough instinct.

Injuries sure were a part of it, but next year JM and KW have to be held accountable over their actions. 2002 is going to be a big year-it'll be Year 5 of "The day after the White Flag Trade".