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View Full Version : If you spend it, they will come


PatK
09-22-2004, 03:34 PM
Like several people have mentioned on other threads, it's time for Jerry to crack open the checkbook.

This team is really only a couple of players away from winning the division. There are plenty of good free agents available after the season to fill the holes that the Sox have in their lineup.

And looking at attendence this year, people will show up to the park if the Sox perform.

Getting good players willl make the team better. Having a better team will bring more fans in the park, who will spend more money at the park, which will in turn, pay for the players.

It's like the old saying "You gotta spend money to make money."

It's time to spend. Why not try it? Every other idea hasn't worked.

And the Sox aversion to contracts longer than 3 years is doing nothing but making players that we could get go elsewhere. Take a chance Uncle Jerry. Because if you don't, you're going to lose more than you think.

soxwon
09-22-2004, 04:34 PM
Whens The Next Strike?

Lip Man 1
09-22-2004, 04:54 PM
The labor deal runs out after the 2006 season. Get ready...

Lip

ode to veeck
09-22-2004, 05:53 PM
What's the attendance looking like for the Sox this year at this point?

DMarte708
09-22-2004, 06:03 PM
What's the attendance looking like for the Sox this year at this point?
I read several days ago in the Sun Times how USCF would need to average 23,000 people the remainder of their home games to reach LAST years total of 1,939,000. Last several games against the Twins have been averaging around 20,000, so it looks like we're not going to reach that figure.

A. Cavatica
09-22-2004, 07:47 PM
This team is really only a couple of players away from winning the division.
What a crock. This team is a mess. We are an owner, a GM, a manager, a catcher, a second baseman, a third baseman, a right fielder, two starters, four relievers, and a farm system away from winning the division.

batmanZoSo
09-22-2004, 08:38 PM
What a crock. This team is a mess. We are an owner, a GM, a manager, a catcher, a second baseman, a third baseman, a right fielder, two starters, four relievers, and a farm system away from winning the division.

Ha. Why so glum?

munchman33
09-22-2004, 09:44 PM
:threadsucks:

Honestly, do you really think spending money is going to get people coming to the ballpark. These idiots hate Reinsdorf so much they'd claim his spending was an elaborate plot to eventually make more money, so they're not going to have any part of it.

The sad fact is there aren't very many true sox fans who go to the games and support the team. The one's that don't just sit and home and claim to be die hard when their absence has done nothing but hurt both the team they claim to cherish as well as the true Sox fans who give the team their all. Reinsdorf spending money won't bring these jerks to the park. Sadly, the only hope our Sox have to draw good numbers is to put out a good team and hope the north side fans come and fill the park when the flubs are out of town.

Lip Man 1
09-22-2004, 10:20 PM
Munchman 33 says: "The one's that don't just sit and home and claim to be die hard when their absence has done nothing but hurt both the team they claim to cherish as well as the true Sox fans who give the team their all."

:rolleyes:
And you live in what fairy tale world again?

Lip

voodoochile
09-22-2004, 10:22 PM
The labor deal runs out after the 2006 season. Get ready...

Lip
JR is. He has only one player signed beyond that year currently on the payroll...

PatK
09-23-2004, 10:38 AM
All right!!! My first thread and I got a "this thread sucks" pic.

voodoochile
09-23-2004, 10:44 AM
All right!!! My first thread and I got a "this thread sucks" pic.
Just ignore Munchman. He is really JR in disguise...:D:

Tekijawa
09-23-2004, 11:24 AM
What's the attendance looking like for the Sox this year at this point?
Here's the attendance compairison to last year:

http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsBBA/BC-BBA-STAT-CHWHITESOXATTCOMP-R.html

Iwritecode
09-23-2004, 11:28 AM
Honestly, do you really think spending money is going to get people coming to the ballpark. These idiots hate Reinsdorf so much they'd claim his spending was an elaborate plot to eventually make more money, so they're not going to have any part of it.

The sad fact is there aren't very many true sox fans who go to the games and support the team. The one's that don't just sit and home and claim to be die hard when their absence has done nothing but hurt both the team they claim to cherish as well as the true Sox fans who give the team their all.

Have you already forgotten the games in the middle of the season when the Sox where in first place and selling out a few games here or there?


Reinsdorf spending money won't bring these jerks to the park. Sadly, the only hope our Sox have to draw good numbers is to put out a good team and hope the north side fans come and fill the park when the flubs are out of town.

The more money you spend (or have to spend) the easier it is to put a good team on the field...

munchman33
09-23-2004, 11:31 AM
Munchman 33 says: "The one's that don't just sit and home and claim to be die hard when their absence has done nothing but hurt both the team they claim to cherish as well as the true Sox fans who give the team their all."

:rolleyes:
And you live in what fairy tale world again?

Lip
LOL I meant to say the one's that just sit at home...

And anyway, it's because I spend money on this team that I feel I have the right to blast all the freeloaders who never contribute to the cause.

munchman33
09-23-2004, 11:32 AM
Have you already forgotten the games in the middle of the season when the Sox where in first place and selling out a few games here or there? No. And I was there. Lots of Cub's fans. Really ticked me off.


The more money you spend (or have to spend) the easier it is to put a good team on the field...
Yeah, but I'd rather that money came from Sox fans and not Flubs fans when their team is out of town.

Tekijawa
09-23-2004, 11:45 AM
So you think that it's just all the Cubs fans that aren't commin out now because the team is out of it? That makes sense! Personally if they wan't to give us money to be able to go after a free agent or trade for a player who's name I've heard of before (Other than because he was on the team a year ago) I'm all for it... They could fill the park with Yankees, Packers, and Vikings fans for all I care as long as I get a winning team it won't matter to me where the money comes from!

SOXSINCE'70
09-23-2004, 12:03 PM
:threadsucks:

Honestly, do you really think spending money is going to get people coming to the ballpark. These idiots hate Reinsdorf so much they'd claim his spending was an elaborate plot to eventually make more money, so they're not going to have any part of it.

The sad fact is there aren't very many true sox fans who go to the games and support the team. The one's that don't just sit and home and claim to be die hard when their absence has done nothing but hurt both the team they claim to cherish as well as the true Sox fans who give the team their all. Reinsdorf spending money won't bring these jerks to the park. Sadly, the only hope our Sox have to draw good numbers is to put out a good team and hope the north side fans come and fill the park when the flubs are out of town.
I'm a weekend season ticket holder.I go to 27-30 games a year.That's all I can afford.And I remain a Sox fan despite the stupidity of the Reinsdork regime.Pitchers signed to deals of no more than 3 years,"pay for performance" clauses,no action for a front line FA,the refusal to deal with clients of Scott Dumbass (I mean Boras),the '94 strike,cutting Fisk in Cleveland,playing hardball with Jack McDowell in arbitration rather than signing him to a multi year deal,"diminshed skills" clauses, all have been a part of this regime.If you can't stand the heat,get out of the kitchen Jerry.

But of course,a new ownership would move the Sox to a new city,right??

:reinsy "Ask me if I truly care".

Iwritecode
09-23-2004, 12:50 PM
No. And I was there. Lots of Cub's fans. Really ticked me off.


Yeah, but I'd rather that money came from Sox fans and not Flubs fans when their team is out of town.

If that were the case then they should still be selling out games. Obviously there were a lot of sox fans at those games are are too disgusted to go to anymore games this year. With the few games that I did manage this year, I could count the number of Cubs fans I saw on one hand.

As for the money, who really cares where it comes from? The money from Cubs fans spends just as easliy as the money from Sox fans...

duke of dorwood
09-23-2004, 01:02 PM
Remember, ticket prices for the sold out games were more expensive this year. And we would likely have had 2 mil without the reduced # of seats in upper deck during those sell out games. Its a wash-owner made out this year.

ewokpelts
09-23-2004, 01:22 PM
Remember, ticket prices for the sold out games were more expensive this year. And we would likely have had 2 mil without the reduced # of seats in upper deck during those sell out games. Its a wash-owner made out this year.Amen brother. And your sig may be the ONLY reason I would want to watch Fox News.
Gene

munchman33
09-25-2004, 03:42 PM
I see a lot of people here disagree with my position. Let me say this. I am not targeting those of you that go to games. If you can afford to only go to five games a year, then you did your part.

But there are so many fair whether White Sox fans that it makes contending very difficult, as our payroll is directly connected to revenue.

And for those of you who would trivialize the presence of Cubs fans out numbering White Sox fans at many games this year, especially midsummer, by contending this, listen. I was there. I've sat in crowds where the chanting of White Sox suck, even when we were winning, was constant. That is absolutely pathetic. I had to leave my seat and stand in other sections more than a dozen times because of this. And no, most of these were not half price nights.

So do I blame the White Sox fans who don't go to games? Absolutely. Hopefully now many of you can see where I'm coming from.

voodoochile
09-25-2004, 11:19 PM
And for those of you who would trivialize the presence of Cubs fans out numbering White Sox fans at many games this year, especially midsummer, by contending this, listen. I was there. I've sat in crowds where the chanting of White Sox suck, even when we were winning, was constant. That is absolutely pathetic. I had to leave my seat and stand in other sections more than a dozen times because of this. And no, most of these were not half price nights.

So do I blame the White Sox fans who don't go to games? Absolutely. Hopefully now many of you can see where I'm coming from.
You miss the point...

You need to ask a different question.

That question is...

"WHY did flubbie fans come to Soxpark this season in large numbers?"

Here is your answer...

Because the flubbies were basically sold out and tickets were VERY expensive.

Because JR marketed the Sox in that exact manner (who cares who comes, just so long as their money is green).

Because the Sox had empty seats and there was a shortage of tickets to games those flubbie fans WANTED to see. They would rather watch MLB games live than no games at all.

JR got his wish. He made it happen. He built a team that not enough people care about and when his rivals built a team that was sooooo popular people couldn't get in, JR reaped the financial rewards. It is basic economics. I predicted it would happen in March. When you have two products that are similar in feel and one of them is basically unavailable, the consumer will purchase the substitute product in higher quantities.

Basic economics... The flubbies being good AND popular drove up demand for Sox tickets...

Now, who's fault is that?

:reinsy
"why are you looking at me?"

:selljerry

munchman33
09-25-2004, 11:49 PM
You miss the point...

You need to ask a different question.

That question is...

"WHY did flubbie fans come to Soxpark this season in large numbers?"

Here is your answer...

Because the flubbies were basically sold out and tickets were VERY expensive.

Because JR marketed the Sox in that exact manner (who cares who comes, just so long as their money is green).

Because the Sox had empty seats and there was a shortage of tickets to games those flubbie fans WANTED to see. They would rather watch MLB games live than no games at all.

JR got his wish. He made it happen. He built a team that not enough people care about and when his rivals built a team that was sooooo popular people couldn't get in, JR reaped the financial rewards. It is basic economics. I predicted it would happen in March. When you have two products that are similar in feel and one of them is basically unavailable, the consumer will purchase the substitute product in higher quantities.

Basic economics... The flubbies being good AND popular drove up demand for Sox tickets...

Now, who's fault is that?

:reinsy
"why are you looking at me?"

:selljerry
That explaination seems needlessly complicated and is most certainly a stretch. I do agree that there was a shift in marketing, moving from fans to the "family friendly" environment. You blame Jerry. I blame our fans. IMHO, there is no excuse for not supporting a team that for the last five years has consistently contended. Sure, things could have gone better. But it's not like they're marketing the Expos or the Pirates out there. It's a good product.

voodoochile
09-26-2004, 12:28 AM
That explaination seems needlessly complicated and is most certainly a stretch. I do agree that there was a shift in marketing, moving from fans to the "family friendly" environment. You blame Jerry. I blame our fans. IMHO, there is no excuse for not supporting a team that for the last five years has consistently contended. Sure, things could have gone better. But it's not like they're marketing the Expos or the Pirates out there. It's a good product.
Do some research. This is basic ecomomics. I'm not making it up. Market forces in a free market society naturally dictate the explanation I gave you.

The explanation may seem difficult, because it takes some extra thought to figure it out. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Inverse squared gravity rule is pretty damned complicated too, that doesn't mean it is incorrect...:rolleyes:

munchman33
09-26-2004, 07:16 AM
Do some research. This is basic ecomomics. I'm not making it up. Market forces in a free market society naturally dictate the explanation I gave you.

The explanation may seem difficult, because it takes some extra thought to figure it out. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Inverse squared gravity rule is pretty damned complicated too, that doesn't mean it is incorrect...:rolleyes:What I meant was you gave me a reason why Flubs fans were buying tickets. I couldn't care less about that. I'm complaining about our fans who don't. If they did, the Flubs fans thing wouldn't be an issue.

Our disagreement stems from the reason fans don't come. You suggest Jerry is to blame for putting out an inferior product. I simply don't think that's the case. We haven't exactly had a lot of losing seasons in the last ten years. I believe it's their hatred for Jerry keeping them away, and I think its time to let it go. You don't have to like an owner to support a team. There are very few likable ones, and usually any honeymoon period with new ownership is up in a couple of seasons anyway. For those that do let it get in the way, I take real issue. For one, I don't think a true fan could let something so petty get in the way. Secondly, I don't think a true fan would purposely hurt the team they love and follow by refusing to go to games simply because they dislike the owner. For those that do this, IT ISN'T WORKING. Jerry hasn't gone anywhere, and he isn't going to. Either support the cause, or go ahead and declare your allegiance somewhere else, because you're not a White Sox fan.

voodoochile
09-26-2004, 09:06 AM
What I meant was you gave me a reason why Flubs fans were buying tickets. I couldn't care less about that. I'm complaining about our fans who don't. If they did, the Flubs fans thing wouldn't be an issue.

Our disagreement stems from the reason fans don't come. You suggest Jerry is to blame for putting out an inferior product. I simply don't think that's the case. We haven't exactly had a lot of losing seasons in the last ten years. I believe it's their hatred for Jerry keeping them away, and I think its time to let it go. You don't have to like an owner to support a team. There are very few likable ones, and usually any honeymoon period with new ownership is up in a couple of seasons anyway. For those that do let it get in the way, I take real issue. For one, I don't think a true fan could let something so petty get in the way. Secondly, I don't think a true fan would purposely hurt the team they love and follow by refusing to go to games simply because they dislike the owner. For those that do this, IT ISN'T WORKING. Jerry hasn't gone anywhere, and he isn't going to. Either support the cause, or go ahead and declare your allegiance somewhere else, because you're not a White Sox fan.I for one don't hate JR. I hate the way he runs my favorite baseball team. It's not the man, it's the method. Or, to put it another way...

I don't hate the playa. I hate the game...

In another thread, Bob said (rough quote here) "the team hasn't said anything negative about the fans in a while." Which really made me smile. It at least acknowledges that this management team has done so in the past.

I have no idea where I heard this next quote, but here goes...

"JR isn't the guy he's been the last few conversations (games, weeks, months, seasons). He's the guy he's been all along."

Sox fans have a serious right to feel skeptical of the man AND his motives. He can prove all of us wrong in one simple way. Win the championship he claims he wants to so badly. Do whatever it takes to get it done. If that means paying more money for players, coaches, management or scouts, do it. If that means putting the team in the red for a few years, do it. If that means taking less salary, do it.

There is already a massive profit to be reaped on this team at any time - just by selling. Every investor on the board will walk away with enough money to buy a house in Hawaii on the ocean and never work a day in their life again. I wish JR would take the money and go. That's all. Who knows if the next guy will dare to be great, will dare to risk, will dare to make the necessary moves to win a championship, but I will take my chances...

:selljerry

EDIT: One final point. Like it or not, people support winning teams more than they support losing teams. Finishing second is just a better way of losing. It may look pretty in the stats, but it still sucks. After a while, finishing second regularly hurts WAY more than just sucking it up all together - because it takes so much less to go from second to first than from last to first. JR is content to finish second most years - at least that is the way it looks to a lot of us (so called) fans. That means there is less drive to spend the money on the team and other entertainment options look more inviting. I mean, if there isn't a chance at a big reward at the end of the year, then watching live baseball at the park is just for fun. So, people will go to movies, shows, concerts, etc. instead. Doesn't make them bad fans, just makes them realists. Why keep getting kicked in the teeth? Spend your money to have fun. People who might go to 10-20 games a year when the team is contending will go to 5 when they aren't. Again, that is simple fan economics. JR can fix that by building a contender which does more than merely contend for the first 3 months and then goes in the crapper. This team was on pace for a monster attendance year before Frank and Maggs went down. So some of your ranting is misguided. This year, I'll even give the management team a pass, but they still have to prove they want it as much as I do and so far they haven't done anything but pay lip-service to that concept...

TornLabrum
09-26-2004, 09:23 AM
I for one don't hate JR. I hate the way he runs my favorite baseball team. It's not the man, it's the method. Or, to put it another way...

I don't hate the playa. I hate the game...

In another thread, Bob said (rough quote here) "the team hasn't said anything negative about the fans in a while." Which really made me smile. It at least acknowledges that this management team has done so in the past.

I have no idea where I heard this next quote, but here goes...

"JR isn't the guy he's been the last few conversations (games, weeks, months, seasons). He's the guy he's been all along."

Sox fans have a serious right to feel skeptical of the man AND his motives. He can prove all of us wrong in one simple way. Win the championship he claims he wants to so badly. Do whatever it takes to get it done. If that means paying more money for players, coaches, management or scouts, do it. If that means putting the team in the red for a few years, do it. If that means taking less salary, do it.

There is already a massive profit to be reaped on this team at any time - just by selling. Every investor on the board will walk away with enough money to buy a house in Hawaii on the ocean and never work a day in their life again. I wish JR would take the money and go. That's all. Who knows if the next guy will dare to be great, will dare to risk, will dare to make the necessary moves to win a championship, but I will take my chances...

:selljerry

EDIT: One final point. Like it or not, people support winning teams more than they support losing teams. Finishing second is just a better way of losing. It may look pretty in the stats, but it still sucks. After a while, finishing second regularly hurts WAY more than just sucking it up all together - because it takes so much less to go from second to first than from last to first. JR is content to finish second most years - at least that is the way it looks to a lot of us (so called) fans. That means there is less drive to spend the money on the team and other entertainment options look more inviting. I mean, if there isn't a chance at a big reward at the end of the year, then watching live baseball at the park is just for fun. So, people will go to movies, shows, concerts, etc. instead. Doesn't make them bad fans, just makes them realists. Why keep getting kicked in the teeth? Spend your money to have fun. People who might go to 10-20 games a year when the team is contending will go to 5 when they aren't. Again, that is simple fan economics. JR can fix that by building a contender which does more than merely contend for the first 3 months and then goes in the crapper. This team was on pace for a monster attendance year before Frank and Maggs went down. So some of your ranting is misguided. This year, I'll even give the management team a pass, but they still have to prove they want it as much as I do and so far they haven't done anything but pay lip-service to that concept...
I'll be addressing this issue in a column I just sent to George about sixty seconds before I started reading this. You and I are on the same page.

voodoochile
09-26-2004, 09:27 AM
I'll be addressing this issue in a column I just sent to George about sixty seconds before I started reading this. You and I are on the same page.
As usual, I look forward to reading your column, Hal.

Seems we tend to think along the same lines regularly - like our dueling media bias columns after the shooting outside Wrigley this summer. Great minds and all that...:D:

gosox41
09-26-2004, 12:00 PM
[QUOTE=voodoochile]

In another thread, Bob said (rough quote here) "the team hasn't said anything negative about the fans in a while." Which really made me smile. It at least acknowledges that this management team has done so in the past.

I have no idea where I heard this next quote, but here goes...

"JR isn't the guy he's been the last few conversations (games, weeks, months, seasons). He's the guy he's been all along."

QUOTE]


It is a rough idea of the quote I had. The point being that you haven't heard KW make his favorite "50 cents" comments. As for hte other quote, maybe your brother said it. Or maybe Jay Mariotti said it. I don't know but it doesn't seem to mean much without a person's name attached to it and a good reason for saying it.


Bob

Lip Man 1
09-26-2004, 01:33 PM
Remember what Ozzie said this year... it went along the lines of 'at the end of the year the stats always look great, they just never win anything...'

Truer words were never spoken.

Lip

balke
09-26-2004, 01:34 PM
Remember what Ozzie said this year... it went along the lines of 'at the end of the year the stats always look great, they just never win anything...'

Truer words were never spoken.

Lip
He sure as spit wasn't talking about our pitching staff.

bad stats = no wins

voodoochile
09-26-2004, 05:01 PM
In another thread, Bob said (rough quote here) "the team hasn't said anything negative about the fans in a while." Which really made me smile. It at least acknowledges that this management team has done so in the past.

I have no idea where I heard this next quote, but here goes...

"JR isn't the guy he's been the last few conversations (games, weeks, months, seasons). He's the guy he's been all along."


It is a rough idea of the quote I had. The point being that you haven't heard KW make his favorite "50 cents" comments. As for hte other quote, maybe your brother said it. Or maybe Jay Mariotti said it. I don't know but it doesn't seem to mean much without a person's name attached to it and a good reason for saying it.


BobI see, so you can't evaluate the idea unless you know who said it first?

The point remains. JR isn't just the guy he is this year. He is the same guy he's been for 24 years. He's the same guy who brought us the labor impasse and played a hawk while the best chance his fans had at a WS title in most of our lifetimes washed away. He's the same guy who brought us the WFT and extorted a new stadium from the state. He's the same guy who refuses to open the purse strings in the off season to fill glaring holes that could help the team BEFORE the season begins. He's the same guy who has never hired an experienced GM or FM since he came here. He's the same guy who said "It's all the fan's fault." He's the same guy who tore down old Comiskey, built a ball mall and then defended it for a decade before finally admitting it was a mistake. He's the same guy who almost allowed KW to run Frank out of town. He's the same guy who refuses to sell the team, take his windfall and go torture some other fan base. He's also the same guy who tore down the Bulls, gave Jerry Krause free rein and then offered to trade all 6 Bulls championships for a single MLB title. As a Bulls fan, that really ticks me off and as a Sox fan I find myself still waiting on JR to actually prove he means it. Should I go on?

You want to trust him to live up to his word, more power to you. Personally, I don't trust him as far as I could throw his diamond suite.

:selljerry

EDIT: Sorry, that quote was not originally about JR. I should have had his initials in paranthesis. I was paraphrasing another quote about people in general - they aren't who they seemed to be in your last conversation, they are who they have been all the time you have known them. Sorry for the confusion. The point stands...

Lip Man 1
09-26-2004, 09:17 PM
Voodoo:

You mean the unoccupied Diamond Suites right? How many of those are there again? 40 or so wasn't it? LOL

Lip