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SoxxoS
09-21-2004, 01:42 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-toni21.html




A disappointing season for the White Sox hasn't gone without bright spots. Manager Ozzie Guillen counts four of them in center fielder Aaron Rowand, pitchers Neal Cotts and Jon Adkins and infielder Juan Uribe.

''Everyone knew about Mark Buehrle, but those four guys impressed me the most,'' Guillen said. ''No one expected Uribe to get 500 at-bats. Rowand, Cotts and Adkins, those kids have done real well.''

Though Guillen expected more from his team coming out of spring training, he didn't expect the performances he got from those four. On the opposite side, Guillen was hoping for a better season from infielder Willie Harris. ''I wish Willie Harris would have had a better year. It was my goal to have him play better. If someone had said in spring training he would hit about .260 or .270 by the end of the year, I would have said great. He's doing that [hitting .260 entering Monday's game], but I wish we could have gotten better from him.''


First off, if Cotts and Adkins have done "really well" then Rowand is eligible for the hall of fame. I think there are only one Cotts and one Adkins on the team, and I am pretty sure Adkins has a 4.94 ERA and Cotts is clocked in at 5.40. Seriously, that's not just not "really well" that is actually "pretty bad." You can say a young pitcher did "really well" if he makes an impact similar to Willis or Grienke. Not a two bullpen guys with ERA's near 5. That is just retarded.

Secondly, if someone told me Willie Harris was going to get .270 at the end of the year, I definitely wouldn't have said "great." I would have said "crap." .260 with no power and no stolen bases = bad starter.

Uribe is far too inconsistant. I guess you could say he was a bright spot, but he was non-existant in the middle of the season. Got to love that 419 OPS in July. I like him, but inconsistancy is one of the major problems...so I wouldn't be counting on Uribe to start if I were KW.

No argument about Rowand. Exceeded all of our expectations, I would venture to guess. 921 OPS from Rowand is just great times. Plus, he has got the work ethic...and he isn't station to station. I wish we had a team of 9 Rowands. I hope it's not a career year, though.

Point being, how can Ozzie say Adkins, Harris, and Cotts were bright spots? Look at the bottom line. Right now, they are all below average MLB players.

Baby Fisk
09-21-2004, 01:51 PM
Agreed. When I saw Cotts and Adkins as our 2004 Bright Spots, my jaw fell open like the AFLAC duck. :o:

batmanZoSo
09-21-2004, 01:54 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-toni21.html


First off, if Cotts and Adkins have done "really well" then Rowand is eligible for the hall of fame. I think there are only one Cotts and one Adkins on the team, and I am pretty sure Adkins has a 4.94 ERA and Cotts is clocked in at 5.40. Seriously, that's not just not "really well" that is actually "pretty bad." You can say a young pitcher did "really well" if he makes an impact similar to Willis or Grienke. Not a two bullpen guys with ERA's near 5. That is just retarded.

Secondly, if someone told me Willie Harris was going to get .270 at the end of the year, I definitely wouldn't have said "great." I would have said "crap." .260 with no power and no stolen bases = bad starter.

Uribe is far too inconsistant. I guess you could say he was a bright spot, but he was non-existant in the middle of the season. Got to love that 419 OPS in July. I like him, but inconsistancy is one of the major problems...so I wouldn't be counting on Uribe to start if I were KW.

No argument about Rowand. Exceeded all of our expectations, I would venture to guess. 921 OPS from Rowand is just great times. Plus, he has got the work ethic...and he isn't station to station. I wish we had a team of 9 Rowands. I hope it's not a career year, though.

Point being, how can Ozzie say Adkins, Harris, and Cotts were bright spots? Look at the bottom line. Right now, they are all below average MLB players.


I don't understand Adkins and Cotts...they both suck. If I were in charge they'd both be hard pressed to find a job next year unless they really, really improved. Uribe's fine for a bottom of the order hitter. In fact it's pretty good to get 20 homers from a shortstop who doesn't bat near the mendoza line and strike out 150 times. This was his breakout year and he's still young enough to improve. We'll see how he does next year.

Mohoney
09-21-2004, 01:56 PM
Thank God that there are others out there that are sick of the Jon Adkins-Neal Cotts bullpen combo.

PLEASE let Jeff Bajenaru have a gangbusters Spring Training so Adkins' taters can be permanently removed from my life. PLEASE teach Neal Cotts a third pitch.

balke
09-21-2004, 01:59 PM
Agreed. When I saw Cotts and Adkins as our 2004 Bright Spots, my jaw fell open like the AFLAC duck. :o:
I think this was already a thread this week, the Cotts Adkins discussion. Sorry, I can't find it.

Anyways, I don't think this is a case where you look at the numbers for these 2 guys. They have pitched some amazing innings the past 2 months. That gets taken away from when they pitch 1 1/3 lights out innings, then have to pitch the next night for 2 more innings, and they get rocked. A lot of times they are pitching the next day. This bullpen has been overworked all season.

Cotts and Adkins are by no means closers, but they have turned it around. They do look good out there when put in the right situation. You could build a better bullpen next season, and still have these guys in it. You could even try Cotts as a starter as a bit. I think that goes for Diaz as well.

JRIG
09-21-2004, 02:55 PM
Thank God that there are others out there that are sick of the Jon Adkins-Neal Cotts bullpen combo.

PLEASE let Jeff Bajenaru have a gangbusters Spring Training so Adkins' taters can be permanently removed from my life. PLEASE teach Neal Cotts a third pitch.
What's the quote from PHG? The relentless replacement of mediocrity? Adkins fits that bill perfectly. Cotts still has some hope I suppose, but to say he's a bright spot is stretching the truth.

wdelaney72
09-21-2004, 02:57 PM
People are still saying how great Mark Buehrle is, yet he has been AWFUL at home this year. Coors Field Midwest or not, Mark has sucked (7 ER last night).

Given the crappiness of the team, he steal needs be go out there and pitch like it matters. That's his job and he's certainly not doing it. As far as I'm concerned, he's acting no better than Judy Garland.

Hey Mark, grow up, put the bong down, stop being such a candy-a$$ and pitch like a professional.

Drill-rod!

mdep524
09-21-2004, 03:12 PM
That is pretty embarrassing that Jon Adkins is among the 2004 Sox highlights. :?: I still think Cotts will be effective next year, though his numbers this season don't quite show it. Uribe- adequate at best. Rowand is a no-brainer.

What about Ross Gload? I figured Ozzie would've mentioned him considering how enamored he is with the guy. And how about Shingo? Hellllo Ozzie, anybody home?

SomebodyToldMe
09-21-2004, 03:44 PM
I know that Neal's era is a little on the high side because of the great Mike Jackson not knowing how to keep runners stranded.

Jjav829
09-21-2004, 03:45 PM
I know that Neal's era is a little on the high side because of the great Mike Jackson not knowing how to keep runners stranded.
I know that Mike Jackson recording big outs down the stretch was a surprise to me. :rolleyes:

OEO Magglio
09-21-2004, 03:47 PM
What's the quote from PHG? The relentless replacement of mediocrity? Adkins fits that bill perfectly. Cotts still has some hope I suppose, but to say he's a bright spot is stretching the truth.
I agree with JRIG? :o: Adkins has looked good at times and awful at others. I still have hope for cotts but I definitely wouldn't say he's a bright spot this season.

santo=dorf
09-21-2004, 03:48 PM
I know that Neal's era is a little on the high side because of the great Mike Jackson not knowing how to keep runners stranded.
And is Mike Jackson responsible for Neal allowing so many walks and throwing so many wild pitches too?

Mohoney
09-21-2004, 03:55 PM
And is Mike Jackson responsible for Neal allowing so many walks and throwing so many wild pitches too?
AMEN.

pudge
09-21-2004, 04:05 PM
Wow, is this general consensus in a WSI thread?

I think we're all shaking our heads and chuckling a bit at the thought of Adkins and Cotts being pleasant surprises. I guess if you consider lasting on the MLB roster for the entire season a pleasant surprise, then they have accomplished it.

I'm not excited about Uribe either. Way too up and down, and pretty much fitting into the mold that we're trying to get away from: free swinging righty who seems to love to shoot for the fences.

I figure Ozzie is just trying to be nice and encourgaing to some of these guys. Saying that he'd be happy with Willie batting .260-.270 is just moronic. Nobody wants their leadoff man batting .260.

Lip Man 1
09-21-2004, 04:19 PM
I e-mailed Giannetti and asked the same thing. Cotts and Adkins are definitely 'not good.'

Lip

bigfoot
09-21-2004, 04:50 PM
"How low are our expectations?"

As long as White Sox fans buy into the idea of, the Southsiders as a "small market" team, this franchise will remain a "Commitment to Excrement"(with apologies to those Oakland Raider critics). With a corporate mindset of "frugality beats buying the best", King X will be entirely correct in his assessment of having to vastly improving the line-up merely to compete. It's really a matter of degrees. As was once stated, "He could take us from Point C to Point B, but we need now to get to Point A." (regarding a managerial replacement. The same applies to the line-up and bench. Time to move up to Point B, because the Sox are nowhere near point A.

Lip Man 1
09-21-2004, 06:39 PM
Actually the 'point A, B, C,' comment was made by Uncle Jerry in September 1990. He was talking about why he fired Larry Himes and replaced him with Ron Schueler.


Lip

bigfoot
09-21-2004, 06:51 PM
Actually the 'point A, B, C,' comment was made by Uncle Jerry in September 1990. He was talking about why he fired Larry Himes and replaced him with Ron Schueler.


Lip
My bad, I could have sworn that was with reference to Torborg. One of the curses of growing old, not up.
Thanks

bc2k
09-21-2004, 08:18 PM
Cotts and Adkins both suck.

hellenicsoxfan
09-21-2004, 08:24 PM
I have never felt as pessimistic about this team as I do now. I can't help but think about the games in Anaheim when Hawk was saying that with the new Angel ownership, it was like a breath of fresh air for the organization. I listened to that and just shook my head. If any team needs new ownership and a breath of fresh air, it is the White Sox. Unfortunately, we all know JR isn't going anywhere, so what does that leave us?
I keep hearing about big changes for the team during the offseason. But who will be making those changes - Kenny Williams. His track record doesn't leave much room for optimism. He's already depleted the farm system. Now he's going to set his sight on trading the major leaguers. God help us.
I'd like to think that we could get some big name free agents signed. But as much as it pains me to say this, most free agents looking to Chicago are looking at the crumbling outhouse up north. In order for the Sox to entice free agents away from the Cubs (and the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.), I think they will probably have to overpay. Which brings us right back to JR. He won't overpay so we won't get any big free agents.
I could keep going, but I'm getting too depressed. I really hope that I've let my pessimism run out of control and that I am wrong about everything.

ChiWhiteSox1337
09-21-2004, 08:52 PM
I admit I haven't watched a lot of the White Sox games as of late, but Adkins was OK when he pitched in GARBAGE TIME. I nearly got sick when I saw him warm up when the white sox were up or down by 1 run. Adkins is fine for the final bullpen spot or the mop up role and ONLY THAT. When ozzie started to use him as the 3rd option after shingo and marte, that's when he became horrible. I think it's safe to say that relief pitching is our biggest need next to another SP this offseason. If we don't get another go to guy this offseason, the 2005 season isn't going to be pretty!

Edit: And by go to guy from the pen, I don't want to see the white sox bring in a guy like mike jackson or politte like they did last offseason. I'm not sure who's an FA relief pitcher after the season, but you know the type of guy i'm talking about.

Hangar18
09-22-2004, 09:40 AM
Thank God that there are others out there that are sick of the Jon Adkins-Neal Cotts bullpen combo.

PLEASE let Jeff Bajenaru have a gangbusters Spring Training so Adkins' taters can be permanently removed from my life. PLEASE teach Neal Cotts a third pitch.
:reinsy
"you guys are missing the Point. These pitchers are Way Cheaper!
This will allow us to Get the Big Time Free Agents we need to get to the PostSeason! "

Hangar18
09-22-2004, 09:58 AM
Edit: And by go to guy from the pen, I don't want to see the white sox bring in a guy like mike jackson or politte like they did last offseason. I'm not sure who's an FA relief pitcher after the season, but you know the type of guy i'm talking about.:reinsy
" Again ........ You guys just are not SEEING the big picture here! Do you guys think money grows on trees? This is Chicago, a very small-market town. A Chicago Team just CANNOT spend 100Million on players! Were not even in the Top10 of population in cities. Were Small People! Teams like The Twins, with their 15 Million People just OutSpend us every year, we dont have a chance! 3 divison Championships in a row Proves that! Look at the money we saved though ........ with Jackson and Politte!"

Hangar18
09-22-2004, 10:03 AM
:reinsy
" and by the way, regarding Jackson and Politte ........... Not ONE OF YOU PEOPLE has Thanked Me or sent me a Thank You note, for saving us money
in the Bullpen. Where would we be if hadnt gotten rid of Tom Gordon!
SHeesh! talk about ungrateful fans. You guys need to be more like your
Sheep-like ...er.....'fans' up north! those are fans! never question, never complain ............ they show up! they spend! you people ......sheeeesh"