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View Full Version : Which of these moves should the White Sox make?


Viva Magglio
09-20-2004, 11:25 PM
I'm for canning both Williams and Guillen, as I said in another thread. I know the real solution for the eternal quagmire of underachievement that is White Sox baseball would be for Jerry Reinsdorf to sell, but that is not realistic unfortunately.

Patrick134
09-20-2004, 11:30 PM
If anyone is going to start a lame "Fire ____" thread, have the stones to stick your neck out and name your awesome choice for a replacement. Let's fire Mags and Frank for getting hurt while we're at it.

batmanZoSo
09-20-2004, 11:34 PM
I know the real solution for the eternal quagmire of underachievement that is White Sox baseball would be for Jerry Reinsdorf to sell, but that is not realistic unfortunately.

Funny because that's the only real problem. We must be screwed.

The king is a tyrant, so kill all the nobles...yeah, that helps.

The only way to turn the Sox around is to take JR out of the picture.

Viva Magglio
09-20-2004, 11:39 PM
If anyone is going to start a lame "Fire ____" thread, have the stones to stick your neck out and name your awesome choice for a replacement. Let's fire Mags and Frank for getting hurt while we're at it.
Of course, you have a good point. Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen have been so successful.

And we still would not have won a damn thing with Frank and Maggs in the lineup.

Viva Magglio
09-20-2004, 11:41 PM
The only way to turn the Sox around is to take JR out of the picture.
And how do you propose we do that? I wanted Reinsdorf gone eons ago, but it ain't happening.

batmanZoSo
09-20-2004, 11:43 PM
And how do you propose we do that? I wanted Reinsdorf gone eons ago, but it ain't happening.

There is no way. He's THE problem and can't be done away with. I already said it, we're screwed. There's no point in this thread.

Maybe we get a great GM who's better than KW but he still won't have the resources to get what he needs to win. And JR wouldn't pay to sign that GM in the first place.

Same exact paragraph now, but replace "GM" with "manager" and "KW" with "Ozzie."

MRKARNO
09-20-2004, 11:45 PM
Might as well keep'em both because I cannot see this organization hiring anyone better than these two. My antipathy for both is growing, but I can't see a better realistic alternative.

Brian26
09-20-2004, 11:46 PM
Might as well keep'em both because I cannot see this organization hiring anyone better than these two. My antipathy for both is growing, but I can't see a better realistic alternative.
Tony LaRussa.

Patrick134
09-20-2004, 11:50 PM
Would the twins have won a damn thing if hunter and santana had missed 75% of the season? Nice logic.

MRKARNO
09-21-2004, 12:00 AM
Would the twins have won a damn thing if hunter and santana had missed 75% of the season? Nice logic.
The Twins would not be where they are without Santana's amazing year and there's no doubt about it. The fact is that he was there the whole year and he's going to win Cy Young barring a last minute collapse which looks unlikely as ever.

WSox8404
09-21-2004, 12:39 AM
Of course, you have a good point. Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen have been so successful.

And we still would not have won a damn thing with Frank and Maggs in the lineup.
And we never would.

OurBitchinMinny
09-21-2004, 12:41 AM
Im just for canning guillens ass. Make him a basecoach or something menial. He has been awful. Injuries are no reason for a team to just take the last two months off.

jabrch
09-21-2004, 01:02 AM
It's gonna be a long offseason of...


http://www.brownfido.com/DogPoopPOO1.jpg

like this...

This posts are really going to stink all offseason.

mdep524
09-21-2004, 01:22 AM
Tony LaRussa.
That should be in deep pink, not teal.

Also, this whole thread, while worthwhile discussion, is completely in vain because there is no way KW or Ozzie will be going anywhere for a looooong time, Once JR finds his guys, they don't go anywhere- he doesn't "fire" people often. Change is verrrrrry slow with JR, so you can forget about any significant changes like that.

However those of you who say JR is the problem, I have to continue to point to Carl Pohlad, who is unquestionably an all-around worse owner than JR. The difference is he has better baseball people beneath him constructing a better baseball team, on even LESS of a budget!! You put Terry Ryan, Ron Gardenhire and the Twins scouts on the Sox's comparably huge $65-$70 million payroll, look out!

IMPACT
09-21-2004, 01:38 AM
That should be in deep pink, not teal.

Also, this whole thread, while worthwhile discussion, is completely in vain because there is no way KW or Ozzie will be going anywhere for a looooong time, Once JR finds his guys, they don't go anywhere- he doesn't "fire" people often. Change is verrrrrry slow with JR, so you can forget about any significant changes like that.

However those of you who say JR is the problem, I have to continue to point to Carl Pohlad, who is unquestionably an all-around worse owner than JR. The difference is he has better baseball people beneath him constructing a better baseball team, on even LESS of a budget!! You put Terry Ryan, Ron Gardenhire and the Twins scouts on the Sox's comparably huge $65-$70 million payroll, look out!White Sox fans seem to want to blame Reinsdorf for not spending like Boston, Steinbrenner, the Mets, Dodgers or Cubs. Frankly, since 2000 the team has underachieved and choked when it came down to winning. They had the best talent in their division year in and year out, yet managed to bow out to a team with generally a smaller payroll. This is further painful by the realization that Kenny Williams' aggressive style has not paid off. Within the context of the entire organization, Williams has sucked the minor league well almost dry in hopes of winning now. He shouldn't have to.

Like you said, Minnesota's owner goes on the cheap more than Reinsdorf.. I mean, consider the talent that has amassed over the years at 35th. There has to be more to it than simple mathematics. The Mets spend kazillions of dollars each year and usually lose. Typically, the same can be said for Angelos and the Orioles. They key is developing your farm system, like Cleveland and Minnesota have done, and taking things from there.

The Chicago white Sox may have the biggest names in the division, but they sure don't have the best organization by a long shot. Give nods to Detroit, Minnesota and Cleveland as the future gladiators.

Kenny Williams will have to deal Konerko, Lee, Crede, Garland, Buehrle and slash payroll to the tune of a nickel. Replenish your minor leagues and trim your payroll. Seems to have worked for everyone else in the financially strapped AL Central.

There are smart organizations and dumb ones.. The White Sox may have had good intentions, but sure went about trying to win the wrong way.

OurBitchinMinny
09-21-2004, 02:13 AM
ozzie hurts this team far more than KW. I dont know whose call it was to hire ozzie, but it was a bad one. He is the twins biggest fan

santo=dorf
09-21-2004, 02:27 AM
White Sox fans seem to want to blame Reinsdorf for not spending like Boston, Steinbrenner, the Mets, Dodgers or Cubs. Frankly, since 2000 the team has underachieved and choked when it came down to winning. They had the best talent in their division year in and year out, yet managed to bow out to a team with generally a smaller payroll. This is further painful by the realization that Kenny Williams' aggressive style has not paid off. Within the context of the entire organization, Williams has sucked the minor league well almost dry in hopes of winning now. He shouldn't have to.

Kenny Williams will have to deal Konerko, Lee, Crede, Garland, Buehrle and slash payroll to the tune of a nickel. Replenish your minor leagues and trim your payroll. Seems to have worked for everyone else in the financially strapped AL Central.
"To be lucky, you gotta think lucky." -Dusty Baker
You have some nerve to talk about the Sox choking, and if you had a clue about the White Sox finances, you'd know WE just sign Buehrle to a 3-year extension. And of course, the Sox have ZERO talent in their minor leagues simply because of Everett and Alomar.

:troll

IMPACT
09-21-2004, 05:16 AM
You have some nerve to talk about the Sox choking, and if you had a clue about the White Sox finances, you'd know WE just sign Buehrle to a 3-year extension. And of course, the Sox have ZERO talent in their minor leagues simply because of Everett and Alomar.


The White Sox traditionally have faded in September to Minnesota since they took the division by storm in 2000. Of course, Cleveland had a title in there, however, the White Sox frankly in my estimation blew their opportunities time and time again. They choked, plain and simple.

As for White Sox finances, I know that Buehrle was signed to that extension, however, it might serve management well to try to deal him for some younger, less expensive parts. Konerko is having an excellent year, but his age is beginning to become a factor worthy of consideration. Magglio Ordonez is as good as gone in this scenerio and Carlos Lee, like Buehrle, can be traded off for some talented but less expensive parts.

It would be blind to not look at the rest of the AL Central and conceive of the thought that the White Sox will be left in the dust by two younger, less salaried, potentially more talented teams at the very least. They can't beat Minnesota as it stands, but Cleveland is going to be real good. Detroit seems to have the ship righted as well.

The White Sox should be trying to mirror their competition, not simply try to outspend them. It hasn't worked before and it's not working now. At that point in time where the talent the White Sox receive in return for arms such as Buehrle or bats such as Lee (assuming their scouting is good enough to spot quality prospects) develops into good or, better yet, very solid major league players.. then you make your splash and go after the impact type players.

The White Sox have a pretty decent 1-2 punch in their starting rotation, with Contreras possibly an impact type. After that though, Garland? Grilli? You can't trust anyone. If you ask me, I would try to get some good, young cheap arms even if I have to give up some of the lumber company. If they build their team on pitching and defense first, they'll win many more games in the long run.

Then again, compared to the rest of the division, maybe they're going in reverse. Who knows?

wdelaney72
09-21-2004, 08:42 AM
Exactly.

The biggest problem this organization has is it's player drafts / development at the minor league level. Yes KW has dealt the farm away, but no one from the farm that we've traded has amounted to anything, just like very few that have made the team from our farm system has amounted to anything.

The Twins draft a player, develop their skills at the minor league level, and when they have a need, bring them up and they contribute. Whoever runs player development and drafts for the Twins, I want them!


However those of you who say JR is the problem, I have to continue to point to Carl Pohlad, who is unquestionably an all-around worse owner than JR. The difference is he has better baseball people beneath him constructing a better baseball team, on even LESS of a budget!! You put Terry Ryan, Ron Gardenhire and the Twins scouts on the Sox's comparably huge $65-$70 million payroll, look out!

thepaulbowski
09-21-2004, 09:38 AM
So this is what we are going to do all offseason, ten threads a day about why I hate/love KW & Ozzie. It will be a long offseason....

gosox41
09-21-2004, 09:42 AM
So this is what we are going to do all offseason, ten threads a day about why I hate/love KW & Ozzie. It will be a long offseason....
It's been a long offseason the last 4 years. How about KW puts together a good team next year and not screwing things up for once? It'll make the offseason go a lot faster an give us some hope.


Bob

PatK
09-21-2004, 09:53 AM
I can't think of the guy's name, but the last GM of the Dodgers who is now a Seattle scout would be a good guy to replace Kenny.

Kenny just doesn't cut it as a GM. He's gotten rid of too many prospects. His good trades have had significantly less impact than his bad ones. The team has gotten progressively worse each year, with the outlook for the next looking bleaker and bleaker.

That being said, the Sox also have to decide what they want to do. Do they want to build this team around Ozzie ball or not? If not, get rid of him and get a coach that can work with the players they have.

SoxFan78
09-21-2004, 10:11 AM
How about we put some of the blame on the players for losing this season. Come on, you have to admit KW has tried to make this team a winner, he hasn't sat back and let the team go to poop. And Ozzie, it was his first year and in the first half of the year, before the injuries, had one of the best teams in the AL.

I doubt if the Sox fire both Ozzie and KW that next season the sox will be going to the World Series.

Its gonna be a long, long off season

JRIG
09-21-2004, 10:17 AM
How about we put some of the blame on the players for losing this season. Come on, you have to admit KW has tried to make this team a winner, he hasn't sat back and let the team go to poop.
Does that mean we should applaud him for actively, instead of passively, turning this team to poop?

2000: 95 wins
2001: 83 wins
2002: 81 wins
2003: 86 wins
2004: 79 wins?

To quote a great man, "Don't confuse activity for accomplishment."

duke of dorwood
09-21-2004, 10:20 AM
We have regressed EVERY YEAR under Williams and Guillen is a joke.

Baby Fisk
09-21-2004, 10:23 AM
The one move that I would support is to figure out a way to minimize the duplication of these fire Kenny/fire Ozzie/let's-follow-the-career-of-an-ex-Sox-so-we-can-feel-more-miserable-about-ourselves threads. It's OK for these threads to exist, but we don't need 5 new threads on the exact same topic every day from now until April. :(:

poorme
09-21-2004, 10:26 AM
i like the bash kw threads, so long as they have cogent arguments. the fire kw threads are a waste because it aint' gonna happen!

Baby Fisk
09-21-2004, 10:33 AM
i like the bash kw threads, so long as they have cogent arguments. the fire kw threads are a waste because it aint' gonna happen!Agreed, but too much of the Kenny stuff lacks cogent arguments, or a familiarity with reason.

poorme
09-21-2004, 10:38 AM
Agreed, but too much of the Kenny stuff lacks cogent arguments, or a familiarity with reason.
no doubt, but that's true of both sides of the kenny argument.

SEALgep
09-21-2004, 10:40 AM
We have regressed EVERY YEAR under Williams and Guillen is a joke.Why is Guillen a joke, because he doesn't sit around feeling sorry for his players? I applaud Guillen for standing up and saying, look at these guys, this is why they win- emulate them. 4 years in a row isn't luck. We have the resources to play their game better, and we have the right type of manager in place for such a team IMO.

bigfoot
09-21-2004, 10:51 AM
The White Sox traditionally have faded in September to Minnesota since they took the division by storm in 2000..... , the White Sox frankly in my estimation blew their opportunities time and time again. They choked, plain and simple.

...... Buehrle....however, it might serve management well to try to deal him for some younger, less expensive parts. Konerko...but his age is ....consideration. Magglio.. gone .... Carlos Lee, like Buehrle, can be traded off for some talented but less expensive parts.

It would be blind.....They can't beat Minnesota.... Cleveland is going to be real good. Detroit seems to have the ship righted...

The White Sox should be trying to mirror their competition, not simply try to outspend them. At that point in time where the talent the White Sox receive in return for arms such as Buehrle or bats such as Lee (assuming their scouting is good enough to spot quality prospects) develops into good or, better yet, very solid major league players.. then you make your splash and go after the impact type players.

The White Sox have a pretty decent 1-2 punch in their starting rotation, with Contreras possibly an impact type. After that though, Garland? Grilli? You can't trust anyone. .... get some good, young cheap arms even if I have to give up some of the lumber company. If they build their team on pitching and defense first, they'll win many more games in the long run.

Then again, compared to the rest of the division, maybe they're going in reverse. Who knows?
The "tradition" of fading in September, dating way back to 2003, is neither tradition, nor true, except in the USAmnesia. A more likely scenerio would be of a nasty start followed by a frantic charge near season's end in an attempt to chase down a worthy opponent.
~You state, variously, that Buehrle needs to be traded, and then later proclaim that the Sox have a "pretty decent 1-2 punch in their starting rotation". Which way would you have it?
~Would trading PK, due to "age considerations", be a reason to replace him with an equally aged, though less productive, Gload?
~Trading for "Talented, but less expensive parts", is the twinkle in every GM's eye. Though, the truth be told, once talent is recognized it becomes expensive very quickly.
~The prospect of another Johan Santana being signed is remote, much as Santana's continuation as a rising star. With a potential of 36-42 starts this season and well over 250 IP, there will be interest in Santana's health next season and beyond(See Mark Prior, etc). He might be a freak of nature, but that's what was said about Prior, too. Great body, mechanics etc.
~I mention Prior because your sig has a telltale stench of the Urinal.

IMPACT
09-21-2004, 04:02 PM
The "tradition" of fading in September, dating way back to 2003, is neither tradition, nor true, except in the USAmnesia. A more likely scenerio would be of a nasty start followed by a frantic charge near season's end in an attempt to chase down a worthy opponent.
~You state, variously, that Buehrle needs to be traded, and then later proclaim that the Sox have a "pretty decent 1-2 punch in their starting rotation". Which way would you have it?
~Would trading PK, due to "age considerations", be a reason to replace him with an equally aged, though less productive, Gload?
~Trading for "Talented, but less expensive parts", is the twinkle in every GM's eye. Though, the truth be told, once talent is recognized it becomes expensive very quickly.
~The prospect of another Johan Santana being signed is remote, much as Santana's continuation as a rising star. With a potential of 36-42 starts this season and well over 250 IP, there will be interest in Santana's health next season and beyond(See Mark Prior, etc). He might be a freak of nature, but that's what was said about Prior, too. Great body, mechanics etc.
~I mention Prior because your sig has a telltale stench of the Urinal.
1. Garcia and Buehrle make a good 1-2 punch, but since this thread seems to be taking the flavor of more of a "who's at fault" and Reinsdorf's name comes up in relation to money, if I had my pick of the two players I'd pick Garcia. You can get 2-3 good young players for Buehrle if you scout right and in the White Sox' situation.. if you are going to trade away parts of your future for a relatively high salaried player (Garcia, for example) and not make the playoffs and see where this division is headed, you either try to go younger and cheaper (but with larger upside) or you continue down the same path and hope for the best despite what the past 3 years have shown.

2. If Konerko is that valuable to you, go ahead and keep him but until this year his inconsistencies have been well documented.

3. You're certainly right when you speak of young, cheap talent turning into high priced young talent, but wouldn't you rather invest your resources in developing and then eventually giving your talent a larger payday in the end? Seems better to me than trying to do it the opposite way.

4. The White Sox have a less than solid rotation, although I still contend that their top 2 pitchers are above average (Garcia: well above). Maybe Contreras will come into his own in Chicago, but you're not winning anything as long as Garland continues and Diaz or whoever else rounds it out. At least not as soon as your payroll would seem to dictate. It would seem to me that if you could spread out the allocated money for pitching within the 5 starters, you'd be ahead of the game.

It's just my opinion but it's not going to be a pushover division anymore. I think this year proved that to be the case.

jeremyb1
09-21-2004, 04:43 PM
If anyone is going to start a lame "Fire ____" thread, have the stones to stick your neck out and name your awesome choice for a replacement. Let's fire Mags and Frank for getting hurt while we're at it.

I disagree with so many of Ozzie and KW's beliefs that I honestly believe there are limitless choices that would offer improvement. If we're really going to trade off our best hitters to use defense and speed to build around a pitching staff which is thorougly mediocre, most any other plan and hence most any other GM/manager combo would be better in my opinion.

Baby Fisk
09-21-2004, 05:19 PM
I disagree with so many of Ozzie and KW's beliefs that I honestly believe there are limitless choices that would offer improvement. If we're really going to trade off our best hitters to use defense and speed to build around a pitching staff which is thorougly mediocre, most any other plan and hence most any other GM/manager combo would be better in my opinion.Wow, I'm almost agreeing with Jeremy -- in this thread of all places (:o:).

I share the concern about getting pitching this offseason if it means depleting the batting order to the point where we can't score the volume of runs that are required to win in US Cellular Bandbox on a regular basis. It would be great to build a rotation of studs who give up 2 runs a night...so long as we are capable of scoring 3 or more runs consistently. I don't want to see a succession of 3-1 losses next season because we put a AAA batting order on the lineup card every night. Okay Jeremy, we can start disagreeing again... :cool:

Wealz
09-21-2004, 05:42 PM
It's time to sacrifice the next 3-to-5 years and committ to an authentic rebuilding program. Done correctly and with a little luck they could have an Atlanta Braves type run afterward.

Jerome
09-21-2004, 06:21 PM
Have the team move to tampa like JR threatened to a few years ago and hope to attract the Expos.

Lip Man 1
09-21-2004, 07:36 PM
Wealz says: "It's time to sacrifice the next 3-to-5 years and committ to an authentic rebuilding program. Done correctly and with a little luck they could have an Atlanta Braves type run afterward."

This from the same ownership that 'rebuilt' after 1985, that 'rebuilt' after the 94 labor impasse, that 'rebuilt' after the White Flag Trade and that started to 'rebuild' after the 2001 disaster.

Shouldn't your post be in deep pink?


Lip

OEO Magglio
09-21-2004, 07:41 PM
It's time to sacrifice the next 3-to-5 years and committ to an authentic rebuilding program. Done correctly and with a little luck they could have an Atlanta Braves type run afterward.
Or they can add a top of the rotation starter, add a couple bullpen arms and retool the offense a little through trades and be a serious contender next year.

Wealz
09-21-2004, 07:47 PM
Wealz says: "It's time to sacrifice the next 3-to-5 years and committ to an authentic rebuilding program. Done correctly and with a little luck they could have an Atlanta Braves type run afterward."

This from the same ownership that 'rebuilt' after 1985, that 'rebuilt' after the 94 labor impasse, that 'rebuilt' after the White Flag Trade and that started to 'rebuild' after the 2001 disaster.

Shouldn't your post be in deep pink?


Lip
Then your problem is with ownership.

Wealz
09-21-2004, 07:51 PM
Or they can add a top of the rotation starter, add a couple bullpen arms and retool the offense a little through trades and be a serious contender next year.
i don't think there's a combination of players available through free-agency or trade this offseason that would make this team a serious contender for a World Series.

Viva Magglio
09-21-2004, 07:57 PM
There is one major reason I do not want Kenny Williams presiding over whatever we do next: he's incompetent.

And to me, Ozzie seems to be more of a White Sox mascot acting as the manager. It was Jerry Reinsdorf who wanted Ozzie because Ozzie was a cheap hire.

bc2k
09-21-2004, 09:40 PM
If anyone is going to start a lame "Fire ____" thread, have the stones to stick your neck out and name your awesome choice for a replacement. Let's fire Mags and Frank for getting hurt while we're at it.
It's not our job to find a replacement for KW and Ozzie. We're fans, it's our job to make thread and polls about the state of our team. It's our job to bitch and moan and call for the heads of whoever is failing to do his job at any time we want to.

We're doing our job, KW and Ozzie aren't doing theirs.

doublem23
09-21-2004, 09:47 PM
It's time to sacrifice the next 3-to-5 years and committ to an authentic rebuilding program. Done correctly and with a little luck they could have an Atlanta Braves type run afterward.Or would could fail miserably and we'd be in the same boat 5 years closer to a death without a Sox championship.

Put the best team on the field for now and work from that. Rebuilding is a loser's strategy.

OEO Magglio
09-21-2004, 09:52 PM
It's not our job to find a replacement for KW and Ozzie. We're fans, it's our job to make thread and polls about the state of our team. It's our job to bitch and moan and call for the heads of whoever is failing to do his job at any time we want to.

We're doing our job, KW and Ozzie aren't doing theirs.
Well you guys are damn good about bitching and moaning about Kenny and ozzie. We get your stinkin point already, we know you don't like them, stop complaining.

MRKARNO
09-21-2004, 10:07 PM
I disagree with so many of Ozzie and KW's beliefs that I honestly believe there are limitless choices that would offer improvement. If we're really going to trade off our best hitters to use defense and speed to build around a pitching staff which is thorougly mediocre, most any other plan and hence most any other GM/manager combo would be better in my opinion.
I was in favor of what Kenny Williams was doing and I really tried to give him a chance, but I'm starting to shift to the anti-Kenny side of the table. I think he's been average in the past, but it appears that he doesnt understand what is ailing the pitching staff and that is the ballpark. Conventional wisdom would be to acquire groundball and strikeout pitchers who are less succeptible to the long ball regardless of their calibur. He should be looking at pitchers with G/F ratios of 1.5 or higher. A man who owns a 3 G/F ratio, Derek Lowe is a free agent this weekend. It might be a good choice to go after him regardless of his performance this year. Odalis Perez has a decent G/F (1.57) ratio, so he might be a good option as well. Kenny has to think in these terms and I fear he will not. I have little faith in his ability to get the job done this offseason and my guess is he'll trade the farm for one of the big three in Oakland, of which only Hudson has been very good this year. Kenny will probably trade for Mulder, whom many think is injured.

Wealz
09-21-2004, 11:56 PM
Or would could fail miserably and we'd be in the same boat 5 years closer to a death without a Sox championship.

Put the best team on the field for now and work from that. Rebuilding is a loser's strategy.
Sure the odds are stacked against rebuilding leading to a World Series, but 'putting the best team on the field for now' is guaranteed not to lead to a to World Series. The worst thing you can be in pro sports is mediocre and that's exactly what the Sox have been since 2000. Too borrow from a terrific marketing campaign -- it's time.

OEO Magglio
09-21-2004, 11:58 PM
but 'putting the best team on the field for now' is guaranteed not to lead to a to World Series.
And you know this how?

Wealz
09-22-2004, 12:26 AM
And you know this how?
I'm extraordinarily smart.:bandance:

What's the point in trying to fool ourselves into believing that the 13th best pitching staff in the A.L. is actually a good building block. Or that a 37-year-old Frank Thomas will continue to produce like the 27-year-old Thomas did. Or that the problem with the offense can be corrected by replacing guys that hit home runs with guys who can steal bases and sacrifice bunt.

I know he's what 70, but Reinsdorf should bite the bullet, make the necassary changes, and get the rebuilding done right.

jeremyb1
09-22-2004, 12:55 AM
It's time to sacrifice the next 3-to-5 years and committ to an authentic rebuilding program. Done correctly and with a little luck they could have an Atlanta Braves type run afterward.

One reason I was so excited about this season was I felt that we had a team as good as the Twins with a strong young core in tact. I thought we could have our cake and eat it to with a competitive season this year and a really competitive team in two or three years. We're in really poor shape for the future though now. We have less available money with what we're paying Garcia and Contreras. Reed, Rauch, and Olivo are departed. Borchard, Crede, and Garland all had quite dissapointing seasons. Buehrle and Diaz are really the only two young guys that met or exceeded expectations this season.

Baby Fisk
09-22-2004, 09:45 AM
I was in favor of what Kenny Williams was doing and I really tried to give him a chance, but I'm starting to shift to the anti-Kenny side of the table. I think he's been average in the past, but it appears that he doesnt understand what is ailing the pitching staff and that is the ballpark. Conventional wisdom would be to acquire groundball and strikeout pitchers who are less succeptible to the long ball regardless of their calibur. He should be looking at pitchers with G/F ratios of 1.5 or higher. A man who owns a 3 G/F ratio, Derek Lowe is a free agent this weekend. It might be a good choice to go after him regardless of his performance this year. Odalis Perez has a decent G/F (1.57) ratio, so he might be a good option as well. Kenny has to think in these terms and I fear he will not. I have little faith in his ability to get the job done this offseason and my guess is he'll trade the farm for one of the big three in Oakland, of which only Hudson has been very good this year. Kenny will probably trade for Mulder, whom many think is injured.I agree with MRKARNO on this. My unshakeable trust in the wisdom and guile of Kenny Williams has eroded somewhat in the past year. It started during the last off-season. I'm hoping to see great things this off-season. This will be Kenny's 5th year as GM. We should be seeing great things by now, shouldn't we? :unsure:

poorme
09-22-2004, 10:00 AM
Sure the odds are stacked against rebuilding leading to a World Series, but 'putting the best team on the field for now' is guaranteed not to lead to a to World Series. The worst thing you can be in pro sports is mediocre and that's exactly what the Sox have been since 2000.
agree completely. though you buy the best team on the field and have a chance.