PDA

View Full Version : Should Ichiro be put in HOF at careers end?


Gosox1917
09-19-2004, 11:23 PM
In light of Ichiro's possiblity of breaking the single-season hits record, I was wondering what others thought of the possibility of a player making the HOF while playing in the majors for only half (maybe not even that) of his career. I say yes because of the great numbers he's put up already, but some argue he hasn't played long enough.

StillMissOzzie
09-19-2004, 11:28 PM
IMHO, what he did in Japan is irrelevant for HOF purposes. I don't know how much longer he intends on playing MLB, but I agree with those who think he's gotta play at this level for several more years before he's seriously considered for the HOF.

SMO
:gulp:

fquaye149
09-19-2004, 11:34 PM
i would think that if he continued to be as good as he is for 4 or 5 more years he would be a hall of fame caliber player.

you can't treat his japanese figures as if they were mlb stats, but you also can't discount them completely. and even if you think nothing of japan, you have to consider that he missed quite a few years in the prime of his career and even now is still a phenomenal major league ball player.

i would vote for him assuming he continues to excel for a few more years, but it will be interesting to see what the voters do with him.

doublem23
09-20-2004, 03:29 AM
If he retired right now, I would say no. But the guy will only be 31 in October, meaning I would assume he has the 3-5 or so good years left in him to boost some stats. That, and what he will lack in longevity, what he has brought to the MLB, as the icon of Japanese baseball and the continued influence the Japanese are having on American ball is more than enough to earn him a rightfully earned plaque. Plus, there are several great Negro League players in the Hall of Fame that never played a game in the MLB and are there on Negro League stats and aura alone (Josh Gibson leaps to mind). Barring major injury, Ichiro will and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, no questions asked.

Personally, I think the more interesting one for Sox fans to watch is Edgar Martinez. The induction of Paul Molitor may finally be a turning point in the HOF voters lack of respect for the DH. If Edgar gets in, I think that really seals the deal for Frank.

Gosox1917
09-20-2004, 08:35 AM
i would think that if he continued to be as good as he is for 4 or 5 more years he would be a hall of fame caliber player.

you can't treat his japanese figures as if they were mlb stats, but you also can't discount them completely. and even if you think nothing of japan, you have to consider that he missed quite a few years in the prime of his career and even now is still a phenomenal major league ball player.

i would vote for him assuming he continues to excel for a few more years, but it will be interesting to see what the voters do with him.
I definatley agree that what he did in Japan means nothing here. It's a different caliber of play here and those stats in Japan should not influence whether he makes the HOF or not. However, if he plays AT LEAST 3 or 4 more years, he's in IMO.

daveeym
09-20-2004, 10:22 AM
If he retired right now, I would say no. But the guy will only be 31 in October, meaning I would assume he has the 3-5 or so good years left in him to boost some stats. That, and what he will lack in longevity, what he has brought to the MLB, as the icon of Japanese baseball and the continued influence the Japanese are having on American ball is more than enough to earn him a rightfully earned plaque. Plus, there are several great Negro League players in the Hall of Fame that never played a game in the MLB and are there on Negro League stats and aura alone (Josh Gibson leaps to mind). Barring major injury, Ichiro will and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, no questions asked.

Personally, I think the more interesting one for Sox fans to watch is Edgar Martinez. The induction of Paul Molitor may finally be a turning point in the HOF voters lack of respect for the DH. If Edgar gets in, I think that really seals the deal for Frank. Great post, statistically 3-4 more good years. Add in breaking down the japanese wall, definitely. No doubt he will be a hall of famer.

doublem23
09-20-2004, 11:41 AM
I definatley agree that what he did in Japan means nothing here. It's a different caliber of play here and those stats in Japan should not influence whether he makes the HOF or not. However, if he plays AT LEAST 3 or 4 more years, he's in IMO.
I disagree... As I said, there are members of the Baseball Hall of Fame that never played one game in the MLB. I'm not saying import his stats from Japan to MLB record books and I'm not saying that they're even as impressive as the numbers he's putting up now, but to completely ignore them is silly.

duke of dorwood
09-20-2004, 01:18 PM
[QUOTE=doublem23]If he retired right now, I would say no. But the guy will only be 31 in October, meaning I would assume he has the 3-5 or so good years left in him to boost some stats. That, and what he will lack in longevity, what he has brought to the MLB, as the icon of Japanese baseball and the continued influence the Japanese are having on American ball is more than enough to earn him a rightfully earned plaque. Plus, there are several great Negro League players in the Hall of Fame that never played a game in the MLB and are there on Negro League stats and aura alone (Josh Gibson leaps to mind). Barring major injury, Ichiro will and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, no questions asked.

Geez, I've been thinking like you a lot lately, you are 100% right

Gosox1917
09-20-2004, 02:15 PM
I disagree... As I said, there are members of the Baseball Hall of Fame that never played one game in the MLB. I'm not saying import his stats from Japan to MLB record books and I'm not saying that they're even as impressive as the numbers he's putting up now, but to completely ignore them is silly.
Ok good point.

doublem23
09-20-2004, 03:57 PM
Geez, I've been thinking like you a lot lately
You should be so privileged, duke. :tongue: :)

Mohoney
09-20-2004, 04:16 PM
Personally, I think the more interesting one for Sox fans to watch is Edgar Martinez. The induction of Paul Molitor may finally be a turning point in the HOF voters lack of respect for the DH. If Edgar gets in, I think that really seals the deal for Frank.
I can't see Edgar getting in. He hasn't reached one of the magic numbers (3,000 hits, 500 home runs), and he didn't play nearly enough games at a position to make comparisons to Molitor or Frank, who in addition have reached magic numbers.

I'm going to say that Frank will undoubtedly get to 500 home runs and that will seal the deal.

mcfish
09-20-2004, 05:44 PM
Personally, I think the more interesting one for Sox fans to watch is Edgar Martinez. The induction of Paul Molitor may finally be a turning point in the HOF voters lack of respect for the DH. If Edgar gets in, I think that really seals the deal for Frank.Sorry this is not about Ichiro, but I don't understand why Paul Molitor is always considered a DH. He played more than 10 years in the field mostly at 2B and 3B before he spent the next 8 years primarily as DH. He played 1495 games in an actual position and 1174 as DH. He had a fantastic career for the first 12 years when he played the field and then he continued to play 8 more fantastic years - just primarily as a DH. In both scenarios, he was one of the greatest hitters ever.

I am a huge Paul Molitor fan, having grown up in Milwaukee for 7 years before moving back to the South Side and joining the ranks of Good Guy fans, so I know that I am biased, but I really am asking that as a question. Why was it such a big deal and why does everyone always disregard the many years he played infield positions?

Gosox1917
09-20-2004, 06:02 PM
Sorry this is not about Ichiro, but I don't understand why Paul Molitor is always considered a DH. He played more than 10 years in the field mostly at 2B and 3B before he spent the next 8 years primarily as DH. He played 1495 games in an actual position and 1174 as DH. He had a fantastic career for the first 12 years when he played the field and then he continued to play 8 more fantastic years - just primarily as a DH. In both scenarios, he was one of the greatest hitters ever.

I am a huge Paul Molitor fan, having grown up in Milwaukee for 7 years before moving back to the South Side and joining the ranks of Good Guy fans, so I know that I am biased, but I really am asking that as a question. Why was it such a big deal and why does everyone always disregard the many years he played infield positions?
I'm not sure but I think people make a big deal about Molitor being a DH more than a position player because he is the first player to make the hall of fame that played a considerable number of years as a DH. There is such a big debate about DH's being in the HOF that people can't get over the years he spent as a DH.

Having said this I think a new debate could be started about DH's making the HOF. IMO they should because out of all the players that are in, the majority are in because of thier hitting stats. There are exceptions like Ozzie Smith but as I said most are in due to how they hit over they're careers. DH's should not be excluded from the HOF if they have the numbers to get in.

doublem23
09-20-2004, 06:06 PM
Sorry this is not about Ichiro, but I don't understand why Paul Molitor is always considered a DH. He played more than 10 years in the field mostly at 2B and 3B before he spent the next 8 years primarily as DH. He played 1495 games in an actual position and 1174 as DH. He had a fantastic career for the first 12 years when he played the field and then he continued to play 8 more fantastic years - just primarily as a DH. In both scenarios, he was one of the greatest hitters ever.

I am a huge Paul Molitor fan, having grown up in Milwaukee for 7 years before moving back to the South Side and joining the ranks of Good Guy fans, so I know that I am biased, but I really am asking that as a question. Why was it such a big deal and why does everyone always disregard the many years he played infield positions?
I'm not saying that Molitor's year in the field weren't significant; he had a hell of a career; I'm mearly saying that had it not been for the DH, nearly the last decade of his career may have never happened and he would not have been close to having a Hall of Fame caliber career.

Ol Aches & Pains
09-20-2004, 07:30 PM
In light of Ichiro's possiblity of breaking the single-season hits record, I was wondering what others thought of the possibility of a player making the HOF while playing in the majors for only half (maybe not even that) of his career. I say yes because of the great numbers he's put up already, but some argue he hasn't played long enough.As far as I'm concerned, they can put him in right now. The man exemplifies the way the game should be played. He has to play 10 years in the majors to be eligible, and he's 30 now, I believe, so it's hard to say if he'll be able to put in the necessary time. If not, I'd even be in favor of an exception being made to let him in. Keep in mind, he won seven straight batting titles in Japan before coming here to the other side of the world, not knowing the language, and winning another batting title in his first season. He plays great defense, he's a great baserunner, he always hustles, and he's just fun to watch. If you don't like Ichiro, you don't like baseball.

fquaye149
09-20-2004, 07:54 PM
As far as I'm concerned, they can put him in right now. The man exemplifies the way the game should be played. He has to play 10 years in the majors to be eligible, and he's 30 now, I believe, so it's hard to say if he'll be able to put in the necessary time. If not, I'd even be in favor of an exception being made to let him in. Keep in mind, he won seven straight batting titles in Japan before coming here to the other side of the world, not knowing the language, and winning another batting title in his first season. He plays great defense, he's a great baserunner, he always hustles, and he's just fun to watch. If you don't like Ichiro, you don't like baseball.
right - i think his immediate success in mlb seems to indicate his accomplishments in japan are noteworthy in considering him for the hof. however i don't think comparison to negro leaguers is apt. ichiro is a completely different situation and must be evaluate without citing that as precedent.