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cwsox
09-16-2004, 11:59 PM
turn out the lights, the party's over


(with apologies to Dandy Don Meredith)

JB98
09-17-2004, 12:09 AM
turn out the lights, the party's over


(with apologies to Dandy Don Meredith)
I'm actually kind of glad. I've know that it was over since the last week of July. At least now I don't have to put up with "optimists" lecturing me on my "negative attitude" and arguing that we still have hope on the basis of head-to-head matchups with the Twins.

dcb33
09-17-2004, 12:14 AM
I'm actually kind of glad. I've know that it was over since the last week of July. At least now I don't have to put up with "optimists" lecturing me on my "negative attitude" and arguing that we still have hope on the basis of head-to-head matchups with the Twins.Yeah, I was gonna say, this season was over after we got swept by Minny in late July. I've been called every name in the book for saying so since then, but hey, at least the Sox haven't strung us along for a few more months like the Flubs with what they are doing to their fans. With the Sox being finished by Bud Billikin Day I was able to catch up on the Bears- GO BEARS- BEAT THE PACK!

Lem_Siddons
09-17-2004, 03:12 AM
turn out the lights, the party's over


(with apologies to Dandy Don Meredith)
And the best part is it's time to toss out some of the guests who stayed too long, and plan on who you will be inviting to next years party.

This may be the most dissapointed I've ever been at a season.

balke
09-17-2004, 03:14 AM
There's gotta be someone on this message board that can beat out Jose's .153 avg. since the all-star break. I can't wait for the cleansing myself.

Lem_Siddons
09-17-2004, 04:06 AM
We knew that was going to happen as soon as he was batting against lefties and righties. At this point I'm so disgusted I don't have anyone on my "don't get rid of this guy" list.

I actually have a little faith in KW to trade a big gun and get value.

SSN721
09-17-2004, 05:54 AM
I would like to think that the embarrassment this team is at the end of the year will force management into doing some sort of overhaul. It is getting painful to watch, I think the last full game I saw was when I went to the Seattle friday night game. I just cant even watch this team anymore, even though I am going tonight. :(:

gosox41
09-17-2004, 07:11 AM
I'm actually kind of glad. I've know that it was over since the last week of July. At least now I don't have to put up with "optimists" lecturing me on my "negative attitude" and arguing that we still have hope on the basis of head-to-head matchups with the Twins.
So the Sox aren't going to the playoffs this season?


Bob

gosox41
09-17-2004, 07:13 AM
I would like to think that the embarrassment this team is at the end of the year will force management into doing some sort of overhaul. It is getting painful to watch, I think the last full game I saw was when I went to the Seattle friday night game. I just cant even watch this team anymore, even though I am going tonight. :(:
You would think so. But I could have made a good argument for an overhaul in 2002 and definitely 2003 after all those power hitters hit like .242 the first half.


Bob

Sad
09-17-2004, 08:21 AM
no kidding

what a disgusting, cowardly performance...

I have (had) tix for this Sat & next Thursday-
no way I'm going after that crap :angry:

miserable quitters...

davenicholson
09-17-2004, 08:36 AM
no kidding

what a disgusting, cowardly performance...

I have (had) tix for this Sat & next Thursday-
no way I'm going after that crap :angry:

miserable quitters...I usually stay out of these threads. As most people around here know, my passion for professional sports in general, and the Sox in particular was effectively killed by the strike of 1994. But still, I consider myself a bit more than a casual fan, and enjoy reading posts from you WSI members who are still passionate, not without a little wistful envy.

The second half of this season, and especially the last month or so, however, have changed my envy to pity. I am extremely glad that I have little or no emotional energy invested in this team. In my 40+ years of fandom, this may have been the worst and most obvious case of a team rolling over (or is it bending over) that I have ever seen. And my heyday of fandom was the 1960s, where even when the Sox had good teams, they were the whipping boys of the mighty Yankees.

What a bunch of quitters the 2004 version of this Sox team is. It's embarassing to refer to myself as a Sox fan. Thanks for the effort, White Sox. Thanks for ceding what little good will and media attention you had in this city to the other side of town. I'd better quit now, before this rant reaches critical mass and explodes. Or I do.

Dan H
09-17-2004, 09:13 AM
I am with davenicholson on this one. What a bunch of quitters. No one can tell me this team cares. All pretense is gone is so right. The greatest thing about this awful sweep is that no one can really think at this point that this team needs to stay intact. One question reamins: Does this organization have any clue to turning this team around?

bluestar
09-17-2004, 09:32 AM
I want to echo the sentiments of davenicholson and Dan H. For the first time in my 28 years of being a Sox fan, I am actually embarrassed to be a fan of the Sox.

My wife and I have plans to visit Chicago next weekend. Our Chicago trips are a big deal for us. They require a lot of planning, and cost (for us) a lot of money. We love the city, and we have some very good friends there. Of course, going to Sox games was also a big part of that excitement. We planned next weekend's trip specifically to see the Sox play in their final home weekend. I'm glad I haven't bought tickets yet, because now we aren't going to any games. There is no way I am going to spend a dime of my very hard-earned money to watch this pathetic excuse for a baseball team play. If they aren't going to show up for me, why should I show up for them?

I am sure many heard Bill Melton's comments during the post game last night. He speculated that there are several players on the Sox that know they aren't part of the team's future, so they aren't playing with any emotion or heart. That totally disgusts me.

I am also sure I am not the only one that finds it extremely ironic that the Sox "slogan" for this year is "Sox Pride." I don't think I have ever seen a Sox team play with any less pride than this one.

You know, I can handle the losing. I live in Nashville and am a big fan of the Nashville Predators. The Preds have lost their share of games in the last six years since they started, but I always enjoy watching them, because they give it all they have, even when they lose. That is what I would rather see from the Sox. I can't take this heartless, gutless baseball night after night.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't think I have ever been this frustrated and angry over a sports team.

tlebar318
09-17-2004, 10:21 AM
This team has less emotion at this point than the Jerry Manuel teams and I did not think that was possible with Ozzie as manager....I guess the handwriting being on the wall for some of these guys has them just going through the motions--If I were Ozzie I would just play all the young guys and forget about wins and losses the rest of the year. The experience the young guys would get would serve us well looking towards the future. It is definitely time to purge this team in the off season. I would like to see more speed, defense, and pitching next year--I know chicks dig the long ball but we are not winning that way! I need a beer or several just to watch the train wreck that is our team right now! :gulp:

Lip Man 1
09-17-2004, 11:58 AM
Dan:

I'm sure the organization does not know how to turn it around and partly that's because they don't have every available option to accomplish it. (read: money, money, money) Not just to spend on player / free agent acquisition but things like outbidding everyone to acquire the best in international talent.

That being said I'm sure Williams is going to try to do what he can under his limitations (both individually as a G.M. and from above).

In other words barring a miracle, you are going to see the same mediocrity (or worse) next season.

I also enjoy the fact that some individuals who were quick to condemm the 'realists' are once again finding themselves in a funk over this pathetic season.

Lip

Hangar18
09-17-2004, 04:13 PM
I knew the season was over when we let ourselves get SWEPT by the
Evil Blue Corporation. Going to the game last nite, getting laughed at
and mocked by Twin Fans (mostly nice though) and hearing some of their
comments "Cant believe you guys arent spending" "Your owners too cheap"
"You guys just cant beat us" I spent a good part of the nite applauding
the Twins and their fans for having a good team and doing things/playing the game right. I told them it was tough to watch this team QUIT, but then again, if you put guys like Timo and Gload in the lineup regularly, your gonna
see this. After everything last nite, all I could do was LAUGH. At myself and at our fortunes. SOme think fans actually felt bad for me, but I told
them HEY, dont worry, this is all by Our Own Hand and because of a STupid OWner. I told them to enjoy the win, feel free to rub it in, they deserve to...they were/are the better team and Im glad theyre an AL Central team.
Thats why I didnt mind the ice and limes pelting me so much .......
Congrats to the Twins ..... they were the better team ....again. :mad:

batmanZoSo
09-17-2004, 05:01 PM
You would think so. But I could have made a good argument for an overhaul in 2002 and definitely 2003 after all those power hitters hit like .242 the first half.


Bob

Imagine if we had overhauled a little bit each of those years. Where would we be now? Better I presume. Much better. But no we were convinced Konerko, Lee and Valentin would show us the way.

mdep524
09-17-2004, 05:54 PM
Going to the game last nite, getting laughed at
and mocked by Twin Fans (mostly nice though) and hearing some of their
comments "Cant believe you guys arent spending" "Your owners too cheap"
Twins fans calling us cheap? With Carl Pohlad in charge over there that is a serious case of, to quote my favorite band, "calling the pot kettle black." I would have to believe that any objective analysis/poll of the worst and cheapest owners would end with Pohlad worse than JR.

Mock the Sox players, general manager and manager all you want, there's no question the Twins are worlds ahead of us in all those categories, but a Twins fan calling the Sox cheap is pretty ridiculous.

batmanZoSo
09-17-2004, 06:12 PM
Twins fans calling us cheap? With Carl Pohlad in charge over there that is a serious case of, to quote my favorite band, "calling the pot kettle black." I would have to believe that any objective analysis/poll of the worst and cheapest owners would end with Pohlad worse than JR.

Mock the Sox players, general manager and manager all you want, there's no question the Twins are worlds ahead of us in all those categories, but a Twins fan calling the Sox cheap is pretty ridiculous.

They have a private owner worth 3 billion dollars and they couldn't re-sign Eddie Guardado. Not that it matters because of course some no-name stepped in and had an even better year than the guy before him.

bj'sforTorii
09-17-2004, 06:18 PM
They have a private owner worth 3 billion dollars and they couldn't re-sign Eddie Guardado. Not that it matters because of course some no-name stepped in and had an even better year than the guy before him.
The Twins obviously have a great scouting department because everytime they get rid of a name, the next guy steps up and does well.

batmanZoSo
09-17-2004, 06:30 PM
The Twins obviously have a great scouting department because everytime they get rid of a name, the next guy steps up and does well.

That's why they win it and we don't. They have great scouts, ours suck. Every guy we bring up sucks. Neither team has money to spend, so there's the difference maker.

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2004, 11:29 PM
...But no we were convinced Konerko, Lee and Valentin would show us the way.Who's we? Those of us who were even mildly critical of Valentin during 02 and 03 were positively vilified by many on this board. All we heard about was how much his leadership meant to the team.

balke
09-17-2004, 11:57 PM
I knew the season was over when we let ourselves get SWEPT by the Evil Blue Corporation. Going to the game last nite, getting laughed at
and mocked by Twin Fans (mostly nice though) and hearing some of their
comments "Cant believe you guys arent spending" "Your owners too cheap"
"You guys just cant beat us" I spent a good part of the nite applauding
the Twins and their fans for having a good team and doing things/playing the game right.
I think everyone knew it was over during the Cubs series. Frank was sitting out. The ONLY thing that charged our team was our lineup. Our line-up was S-I-C-K! The core was so good, they just made everyone else that much better. We'll probably never see a group of hitters like that strung together in the sox line-up.


Uribe
Clee
Thomas
Maggs
Konerko
Rowand
Valentin
Crede
Olivo

W/ Ozzie, there really was no lineup, so this is the best I remember it. Olivo was good enough to hit 6th-7th, but I remember him being kept in the 9 spot, he helped bring the inning back to the top of the order.
We would've struggled to beat any N.L. team, because either Frank or PK would have to sit out. Losing one of 1-6 guys in our lineup just made us a completely different team. The everlasting inning disappeared.

This team was built fun, not soundly. Kenny really does need to get serious about pitching, before trying to give us a dream power lineup again.

Sorry to hear you had to take the razzes Hanger. Maybe next year we can spend as much as the Twins.

HaroMaster87
09-18-2004, 12:22 AM
Haven't you guys ever worked with people at your jobs that just dont give a ****? They just show up, go through the motions and do the bare minimum? Well, that's your 2004 Sox...on the other hand, the Twins find all the mentally tough guys who are hard workers and show up everyday and bust their asses...THAT is the problem...too many guys that just dont give a ****...:mad:

dcb33
09-18-2004, 12:41 AM
Haven't you guys ever worked with people at your jobs that just dont give a ****? They just show up, go through the motions and do the bare minimum? Well, that's your 2004 Sox...on the other hand, the Twins find all the mentally tough guys who are hard workers and show up everyday and bust their asses...THAT is the problem...too many guys that just dont give a ****...:mad:
I don't think that's the problem at all. I would bet you that the Gloads and the Borcahrds and the Davises of the world damn well give a **** becuase this might be the only extended chance they might get to prove themselves as major league calibur players. The only problem is that most of our lineup isn't very good. At the beginning of the season pretty much everyone (except for the mindlessly optomistic) thought we would be a 500 club finishing in 2nd or 3rd place, and that was assuming Maggs and Frank would be healthy the entire year, so really, to finish the year at 500 and in 2nd place would be quite an accomplishment for this team considering our 3 and 4 hitters were out for half the season...
I'm sure they probably do care, but with the exception of PK, El Caballo, Rowand, Buehrle, Garcia, and possibly Timo and Contreras, we just aren't that good.

HaroMaster87
09-18-2004, 12:49 AM
I don't think that's the problem at all. I would bet you that the Gloads and the Borcahrds and the Davises of the world damn well give a **** becuase this might be the only extended chance they might get to prove themselves as major league calibur players. The only problem is that most of our lineup isn't very good. At the beginning of the season pretty much everyone (except for the mindlessly optomistic) thought we would be a 500 club finishing in 2nd or 3rd place, and that was assuming Maggs and Frank would be healthy the entire year, so really, to finish the year at 500 and in 2nd place would be quite an accomplishment for this team considering our 3 and 4 hitters were out for half the season...
I'm sure they probably do care, but with the exception of PK, El Caballo, Rowand, Buehrle, Garcia, and possibly Timo and Contreras, we just aren't that good. So you think if you match up position by position with the Twins at the BEGINNING of the year, you would have though they were 13 games better than us? C'mon......no way.

And your point about Davis, borchard and Gload trying to prove them selves as major league players is not possible because none of them are major league starters let alone major league players. Would the Twins mess around with these three guys?

dcb33
09-18-2004, 01:10 AM
So you think if you match up position by position with the Twins at the BEGINNING of the year, you would have though they were 13 games better than us? C'mon......no way.

And your point about Davis, borchard and Gload trying to prove them selves as major league players is not possible because none of them are major league starters let alone major league players. Would the Twins mess around with these three guys?No, I wouldn't have thought they would be 13 games better than us, but I didn't think they'd be on pace to win 95 games either.

Secondly, you just proved my point when you talked about Davis, Borchard and Gload. They AREN'T major league players. It's not that they or the team doesn't care (which is what you said the problem is)- I'm sure they do, it's just that the Sox lack the talent necessary to compete for a division crown. Period.

HaroMaster87
09-18-2004, 01:37 AM
No, I wouldn't have thought they would be 13 games better than us, but I didn't think they'd be on pace to win 95 games either.

Secondly, you just proved my point when you talked about Davis, Borchard and Gload. They AREN'T major league players. It's not that they or the team doesn't care (which is what you said the problem is)- I'm sure they do, it's just that the Sox lack the talent necessary to compete for a division crown. Period.
You mentioned 3 GUYS...that leaves 22 others on the ML roster. That proves MY point...I bet i could name 3 guys on the Twins roster that dont belong on the ML roster, too.

Nellie_Fox
09-18-2004, 01:48 AM
You mentioned 3 GUYS...that leaves 22 others on the ML roster. That proves MY point...I bet i could name 3 guys on the Twins roster that dont belong on the ML roster, too.Okay, go ahead.

The Twins have had better depth in their lineup, allowing them to survive injuries when the Sox couldn't.

HaroMaster87
09-18-2004, 02:05 AM
Okay, go ahead.

The Twins have had better depth in their lineup, allowing them to survive injuries when the Sox couldn't. Ok, how about Augie Ojeda, Henry Blanco and Terry Mulholland?

and i dont wanna hear that Augie is hitting over .300...So is freaking Jamie Burke

Dan H
09-18-2004, 08:49 AM
I have only one thing to add to discussion: The rebuilding that began with the White Flag Trade in 1997 failed and failed miserably. I don't know if this team has the money, will, or ability to get the team back on track. It is hard enough to take a season like this, but it is worse to look into a future that isn't very bright.

gosox41
09-18-2004, 09:04 AM
Imagine if we had overhauled a little bit each of those years. Where would we be now? Better I presume. Much better. But no we were convinced Konerko, Lee and Valentin would show us the way.
Exactly why KW needs to be fired. Who extended/picked up options on all these guys? The reason the Sox had little flexibility in the payroll at the beginning of 2004 is KW's fault.


Bob

gosox41
09-18-2004, 09:12 AM
Haven't you guys ever worked with people at your jobs that just dont give a ****? They just show up, go through the motions and do the bare minimum? Well, that's your 2004 Sox...on the other hand, the Twins find all the mentally tough guys who are hard workers and show up everyday and bust their asses...THAT is the problem...too many guys that just dont give a ****...:mad:
I disagree. Back in July when Frnak and Magglio were both first out, I thought the Sox had given up. Now it''s obvious. They just don't have the talent. It's plain and simple. Look around the team:

PK-having typical PK year.
Uribe-hitting above career average
Valentin-average has declined for 4 straight years, he's 35 years old. Never should have picked up his option.
Crede-May be able to make an argument about him.
Lee- Having solid year.
Rowand-Best year ever in the majors after being first extended chance to play.
Gload-hitting decenlty for a career minor leaguer.
Perez-Never has hit well before
Borchard-I'm sure he's trying, some say too intense.
Willie Harris-Never any good to begin with.
Sandy Alomar Jr-old
Burke-Hitting away above his head, sure he's trying.
Davis-Never hit anywhere before, but started hit with SOx and got everyone excited.
R. ALomar-old,injured, and at times looks like he's not trying.
Everett-seems intense, but has been hurt awhile.

Pitching:
Buerhle-having an OK year.
Garcia-outside of that bad outing, been doing what I thought. missed a few starts due to injury.
Contreras-seems too comfortable wit his splitfingered pitch
Garland-never very good to begin with despite good stuff. could make an slight argument here about not trying.
Diaz-never given fair shot
Cotts-Wild
Shingo-nice surprise, but league is adjusting to him
Adkins-never was good in the minors, no surprise he sucks up here.
Politte-been what I expected
Marte-given up too many HR's an BB's, velocity has fluctuated this season.


So overall I can make an argument that Roberto Alomar, Joe Crede, and Jon Garland have attitude problems. The rest of the team just isn't that talented.


Bob

Lip Man 1
09-18-2004, 12:48 PM
Blanco has had a career year and was the Twins savior behind the plate with Mauer's knee injury. Mulholland was a valuable swing man in the bullpen who could go long or short depending on the situation.

Compare that to bufoons like Alomar Senior, Adkins (Nicknamed Mr. Gopher), Cotts, Jackson, and the revolving door of brutal 5th starters.

Lip

HaroMaster87
09-18-2004, 01:18 PM
Blanco has had a career year and was the Twins savior behind the plate with Mauer's knee injury. Mulholland was a valuable swing man in the bullpen who could go long or short depending on the situation.

Compare that to bufoons like Alomar Senior, Adkins (Nicknamed Mr. Gopher), Cotts, Jackson, and the revolving door of brutal 5th starters.

Lip So you mean to tell me that if Blanco was on the Sox and was hitting .194, everyone hear would be calling him a "savior"?

And as far as Mulholland and his over 5.00 era....c'mon, you guys would be lighting him up like a certain other old-timer we had in our bullpen earlier this year that was just cut....hello, MJ....I didn't hear anyone hear calling hime "valuable" at all.

I do agree with the list of "buffoons" you posted, though.

Jerome
09-18-2004, 06:14 PM
I've noticed a disturbing trend these last couple of weeks. The Sox are really getting screwed in terms of media coverage. The Cubune isn't even putting a mention of the White Sox in the front page. What about equality? The Cubs have way more media coverage than us! This is an outrage! Equal Time!

ma-gaga
09-18-2004, 06:25 PM
So you mean to tell me that if Blanco was on the Sox and was hitting .194, everyone hear would be calling him a "savior"?
...
And as far as Mulholland and his over 5.00 era

Blanco would be crucified in Chicago. Unfairly. He was signed as a defensive catcher to give Mauer a rest. Offensive catchers' are tough to find, but people don't realize that. The Twins apparently do. If they wanted an offensive catcher, they'd play LeCroy, but he's a butcher with the glove. With Mauer out for the year and the emphasis the Twins put on defense, Blanco gets the playing time and LeCroy gets the bench.

Mullholland: He's given the Twins 3-4 fantastic starts. Signed as a freaking long mop up man in the bullpen, he's done a good job of absorbing innings, and giving the Twins some relief. He'd be crucified unfairly as well, but he was the starting pitcher in probably the most important game the Twins played all season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240815105

And that is what a fifth starter does. Pulls one out of the air. For all the crappy games that Mullholland has pitched in this year, he's pitched some dandies.

ma-gaga
09-18-2004, 06:37 PM
That and they got lucky that their collective bullpen stood up and said, "You will not score against me. I will cut you down. I will tear your heart out. I am a Twin."

jabrch
09-18-2004, 06:43 PM
I also enjoy the fact that some individuals who were quick to condemm the 'realists' are once again finding themselves in a funk over this pathetic season.

LipIt's so easy to predict failure and then gloat when you are right. It's a lot harder to stick through things while there is still a longshot of a chance - to enjoy the games for what they are - baseball games - and not let them make my life miserable. If the WhiteSox ever got to the point where they make me as miserable as many of your posts sound, I'd quit on the game all together. But to me baseball is a lot more than championships. I'd be disapppointed if, in my life, we never see one. But more than that, I love going to the park. I love going to games. I love the smell of a polish with grilled onions. I love the first taste of the cold beer. I love hearing fans cheer, seeing kids screaming for balls, and being at the game. I love the fireworks, the elvi, and the ratpack. Everything about the game I enjoy.

For those to whom this is all about winning and losing, I pity you a bit. I really do. Cuz this team may NEVER win a championship - and I am ok with that. When I was a kid - that's not why I started cheering for them. It still isn't. I'd rather win than lose - but my record in attendance is fairly decent. I see enough wins to make me happy. I fear for those of you who seem like you will never be happy without a WS.

batmanZoSo
09-18-2004, 07:36 PM
Who's we? Those of us who were even mildly critical of Valentin during 02 and 03 were positively vilified by many on this board. All we heard about was how much his leadership meant to the team.

I meant we as in the organization. He was decent from 00-02, he was even okay for a brief period this year, but he's beyond bad now and our makeup needs to be changed so bad that he's the number one guy that has to go. If he's the shortstop next year I'm not watching. And I mean that.

KW never should have given Konerko 8 million a year just because he was dazzled by a hot first half of 02. That was stupid. Even
that Konerko wasn't worth 8 million to a team that's already loaded with power. Oh, if we could go back and trade him then. Of course KW would have been crucified, but we'd be better off. Especially with a 7 million dollars cheaper Brian Daubach having a MUCH better year playing full time for us in 03 than Konerko had.

Lip Man 1
09-18-2004, 09:58 PM
Jabrch:

Feel free to live in your dream world as long as you like. That's your right. I try to look at things with an honest unbiased view.

I have noticed though in the last few weeks the 'optimists' who were so strong in condemming, verbally assulting and insulting the more realistic members of the board don't seem to be around much. Geez I wonder where they went? You'd think after the past four seasons they'd have learned by now.

There is nothing wrong about being optimistic Jabrch, what bothers me is the way some of you feel they have the right to insult and condemm others who don't feel that way.

And guess what, unfortunately the Sox aren't going to do squat next year either short of an ownership change. that's reality...deal with it.

Lip

OEO Magglio
09-18-2004, 10:07 PM
Jabrch:

Feel free to live in your dream world as long as you like. That's your right. I try to look at things with an honest unbiased view.

I have noticed though in the last few weeks the 'optimists' who were so strong in condemming, verbally assulting and insulting the more realistic members of the board don't seem to be around much. Geez I wonder where they went? You'd think after the past four seasons they'd have learned by now.

There is nothing wrong about being optimistic Jabrch, what bothers me is the way some of you feel they have the right to insult and condemm others who don't feel that way.

And guess what, unfortunately the Sox aren't going to do squat next year either short of an ownership change. that's reality...deal with it.

Lip





Unbiased?? Lip, your always negative, your always blaming jr, always saying the sox aren't going to do anything until there is a new owner. I don't know if I'd call you unbiased your pretty set in your ways. What do you mean the optimisits have went away, I'm right here Lip. What's wrong with being optimistic? Just because your always going to be negative no matter what happens, why do other people have to be the same? Some of us still have hope for this organization, if you have no hope for the organization with JR as owner we even follow the sox?

jabrch
09-19-2004, 12:55 AM
Unbiased?? Lip, your always negative, your always blaming jr, always saying the sox aren't going to do anything until there is a new owner. I don't know if I'd call you unbiased your pretty set in your ways. What do you mean the optimisits have went away, I'm right here Lip. What's wrong with being optimistic? Just because your always going to be negative no matter what happens, why do other people have to be the same? Some of us still have hope for this organization, if you have no hope for the organization with JR as owner we even follow the sox?

We obviously have very different definitions of terms like optimism, realism, realist, and hope than Lip does. Lip's realism invlolves some world where another owner can take this franchise and do magic that Reinsdorf has been unable to do. He lives in a world where nearly every problem with this team is directly the responsibility of the owner, and where regime change would eliminate those problems.

Sorry folks - that's not how life, or baseball outside of 3 or 4 places - actually works.

And OEO - you are dead on. If things are so miserable - if baseball brings so much pain to people, why spend the time/effort/energy/emotion/money/etc. that you do. Geeeshhh

balke
09-19-2004, 03:39 AM
Unbiased?? Lip, your always negative, your always blaming jr, always saying the sox aren't going to do anything until there is a new owner. I don't know if I'd call you unbiased your pretty set in your ways. What do you mean the optimisits have went away, I'm right here Lip. What's wrong with being optimistic? Just because your always going to be negative no matter what happens, why do other people have to be the same? Some of us still have hope for this organization, if you have no hope for the organization with JR as owner we even follow the sox?
I too am spartacus... I mean... an optimist. There's just not much left to be optimistic about. hold on a sec...


There's no way we end up 3rd, go sox!

let's trade sweep for sweep with the twink scrubs v. our own. GO Chicago!

ahhh... much better.

Mohoney
09-19-2004, 07:02 AM
I have only one thing to add to discussion: The rebuilding that began with the White Flag Trade in 1997 failed and failed miserably. I don't know if this team has the money, will, or ability to get the team back on track. It is hard enough to take a season like this, but it is worse to look into a future that isn't very bright.
We have to decide, once and for all, if we're going for it now or rebuilding. This "go for it this year, but keep an eye on the future by thrusting young, incompetent pitchers into pivotal bullpen roles so they can groom" attitude will never win us a division. I know that this philosophy worked in 2000, but to count on it working twice in less than 5 years for the same franchise is just absurd.

We either have to:

A. Spend more money and fill ALL our holes with competent, veteran ballplayers that know what it takes to win.

or

B. Groom young players at the major league level for a few dismal years until they come into their own, and compliment them with competent veteran support as they turn the corner.

I would not have a problem with either one of these plans of attack. As long as it's not the same fence-walking plan of attack that we have had for the last 4 years, I'm ecstatic.

It seems that Kenny Williams is hell-bent on contending now rather than grooming a team of young players with an eye toward 2008 or 2009. If that is the case, then players such as Jon Adkins, Neal Cotts, Jon Garland, Joe Crede, and Joe Borchard need to be replaced ASAP. Otherwise, it's another year down the drain.

A team that is serious about contending does not fill 5 or 6 spots on its 25-man roster with young question marks. They sign free agents, plain and simple.

Either give me a solid team with a completely veteran bullpen, 5 proven veteran starters, and 8 regulars that get on base and field their positions well, or give me a youth movement with a heavy emphasis on farm system pitching and a set plan of attack for future seasons.

Please, do not give me another season of this "lightning in a bottle, win one on the cheap" crap. I can't take it anymore.

Mohoney
09-19-2004, 07:10 AM
Sorry folks - that's not how life, or baseball outside of 3 or 4 places - actually works.Chicago should DEFINITELY count as one of those 3 or 4 places. The fact that a city with 2 baseball teams hasn't won a World Series since World War I has to be, at the very least, a little hard to swallow.

All I know is that if any other franchise in any other business went 87 years without finishing at the top of its marketplace at least once, it would be out of business.

gosox41
09-19-2004, 07:40 AM
Chicago should DEFINITELY count as one of those 3 or 4 places. The fact that a city with 2 baseball teams hasn't won a World Series since World War I has to be, at the very least, a little hard to swallow.

All I know is that if any other franchise in any other business went 87 years without finishing at the top of its marketplace at least once, it would be out of business.
Unfortunately that may change this season.
Let's hope not.



Bob

The Critic
09-19-2004, 08:50 AM
It's so easy to predict failure and then gloat when you are right. It's a lot harder to stick through things while there is still a longshot of a chance - to enjoy the games for what they are - baseball games - and not let them make my life miserable. If the WhiteSox ever got to the point where they make me as miserable as many of your posts sound, I'd quit on the game all together. But to me baseball is a lot more than championships. I'd be disapppointed if, in my life, we never see one. But more than that, I love going to the park. I love going to games. I love the smell of a polish with grilled onions. I love the first taste of the cold beer. I love hearing fans cheer, seeing kids screaming for balls, and being at the game. I love the fireworks, the elvi, and the ratpack. Everything about the game I enjoy.

For those to whom this is all about winning and losing, I pity you a bit. I really do. Cuz this team may NEVER win a championship - and I am ok with that. When I was a kid - that's not why I started cheering for them. It still isn't. I'd rather win than lose - but my record in attendance is fairly decent. I see enough wins to make me happy. I fear for those of you who seem like you will never be happy without a WS.With the exception of the "Elvi and the Ratpack" - neither of which I enjoy in the least, and I never go on those dates - I agree wholeheartedly. I enjoy White Sox baseball, but it's not the be-all, end-all for me. It's short-term annoying when I'm watching the Sox blow a lead or get blown out, but it doesn't affect my life.