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View Full Version : Random Thoughts ....From the Metrodome Last Nite Game 9/15


Hangar18
09-16-2004, 01:55 PM
-Minneapolis,MN
Greetings and Salutations everybody. Your old pal and fellow Angst Filled Sox Fan here from the Twin Cities. It was kind of a crappy day and much noticably cooler up here and rainy than in Chicago. For the first time since ive been up here a few times, I DIDNT see too many SOX fans at the game, though we were there in numbers, and Noticable to the crowd. Twin fans are weird, in that as soon as they see you, they either give you Dirty Looks, Stare in curious wonder, or simply do a double-take as you walk by, if your wearing your SOX gear of course. A number of them made some comments, and they seem to Cheer Extra Loudly (like we do when were beating the Cubs) on
every Torii Hunter Hit, or Santana strikeout.

But the MOST CURIOUS and MOST HEARD COMMENT from Twinkie Fans was their feeling how they felt they
were "beating a Major Market" team, and that their "Small Market" team was better, and that somehow, we were a bunch of OverPaid, Big-City Types with a OverPaid BigCity Team/Payroll. I remarked that our payroll was EXTREMELY LOW for a team Located in the 3rd Largest City in the United States, and they were winning simply because theyve got a Better Team and were able to Fill their Holes in the offseason very nicely.

As Joe Crede and the SOX started kicking the ball around, Id had enough and decided to take a walk and get a cold Leinenkugel (I like that they serve that there) when I ran into some Fellow SOX fans (and friends of fellow WSI'er Realist) They had decided to take a walk also, disgusted with the turn the game had taken. They Agreed with something I'd said NUMEROUS times here, you CANNOT have VALENTIN, CREDE, URIBE in the same lineup. Thats 3 automatic outs, not to mention the fact that 2 of those 3 CANT MAKE CONTACT to save their lives, and this, Against a Team/in a Stadium in which Making Contact is of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE if you want to win there. But this is another point ........ I brought up a Topic that
seemed to be the Theme for the Evening among Metrodome fans. TWIN FANS seemed to overwhelmingly Look at SOX fans, and THE WHITE SOX as MAJOR MARKET ........ and their own MINNESOTA TWINS as SMALL MARKET.
We drank the beers, and they ALSO agreed quickly, the Chicago White Sox are BIG MARKET team. On my way back to my seat, I randomly asked Twin Fans, about 10-15 of them throughout the concourse......
TWINS & WHITE SOX. Big Market & Small Market .....Who belongs where?

Before I post my Semi-Official Results in a 2nd Post to this (so that you guys wont see, and have to VOTE first) thread, take a moment and tell me SOX FANS, do you Think the SOX are a BIG MARKET or a SMALL MARKET team.
NOW DONT look at our payroll or the way were behaving. Simply, IS CHICAGO A BIG MARKET? Is Minneapolis a BIG MARKET?

shagar69
09-16-2004, 02:00 PM
YES CHICAGO IS A HUGE MARKET! we got like 8 million people! the minny-st. paul is a medium sized market

Paulwny
09-16-2004, 02:02 PM
Big market team with a small minded owner. :angry:

Hangar18
09-16-2004, 02:12 PM
Out of 35 people asked at Random, on the concourse in the Metrodome, Minnesota Twins Fans voted:

100% Believed the SOX were a Major Market Team.
100% Believed the TWINS were a Small Market Team.

100% Thats Pretty Strong a statement by Twin Fans. Think about that
number for a moment. 100. One Hundred. One hundred freaking percent
of Minnesota Twin fans, decked out in their Twink Gear, all loud and excited and CONFIDENT and smiles on their faces, answering Quickly and Without Hesitation, said WE were the Big Market Goliaths, and THEY were the Small Market Davids.

As I was asking the questions, I started to worry about where my pen & paper
were, because there were 4 possible scenarios people couldve answered.
But by the time I got halfway thru ..........It was Automatic what the answers
were going to be, and I lazily (in a journalistic sense) didnt bother worrying
about that any more.

jeremyb1
09-16-2004, 02:14 PM
I feel bad that I didn't make it out the last two nights and won't tonight either when there are folks driving up from Chicago and I live here. I apologize for being such a fairweather fan (and not having a car) and I hope you're having a fun time despite the results Hangar.

As far as the size of the two markets, I think that both clubs operate in large markets. Now whether or not that's different from being a large market club I'm not sure. We have to fight with the Cubs for attendance and the Twins are saddled by what is generally viewed as just about the worst ballpark in baseball. That said, having lived in both areas they both seem quite large to me and more than capable of supporting the two clubs. I can't be certain on how similar the methodology is but there are 2.6 million in the Twin Cities area including the local suburbs compared to 2.9 million in Chicago according to the 2000 census. You don't ever hear anyone calling Minnesota a small market in connection with the Vikings.

shagar69
09-16-2004, 02:15 PM
whoever voted that chicago is a small market is a MORON! do you realize that our population is THIRD in the country behind only NYC and LA? i would consider AT LEAST the top five cities in the country as big market!

Hangar18
09-16-2004, 02:18 PM
Im getting ready to have lunch downtown Minny right now, and head over to that Giant Inflatable Warehouse, with Green Carpet and bases Painted place they call the Metrodome and watch some Sox BP, and then watch Garland go 2 and 2/3 tonite. Im kind of shocked at the results im seeing so far.
2 people so far Think the Twins are ALSO a BIG MARKET TEAM. interesting

PaleHoseGeorge
09-16-2004, 02:25 PM
I think I know how a certain somebody would respond to Hangar's question...
:cool:

:reinsy
"Chicago has always been a Cubs town... at least in the 23 years since I started running the Sox!"

Eddie Gaedel
09-16-2004, 02:26 PM
As far as the size of the two markets, I think that both clubs operate in large markets. Now whether or not that's different from being a large market club I'm not sure. We have to fight with the Cubs for attendance and the Twins are saddled by what is generally viewed as just about the worst ballpark in baseball. That said, having lived in both areas they both seem quite large to me and more than capable of supporting the two clubs. I can't be certain on how similar the methodology is but there are 2.6 million in the Twin Cities area including the local suburbs compared to 2.9 million in Chicago according to the 2000 census.
the chicagoland area is about 9.6 mil people. far larger than the twin city area. there is no way they could support 2 teams. it's not surprising minny fans like to look at the rivalry as small vs large. it's sweeter if you're the underdog (even though most people predicted them to win the division from the get go).

Hangar18
09-16-2004, 02:34 PM
Im going to take another Twinkie Fan Poll Tonite at the game.
But interesting to NOTE how Twins Fans view themselves as SMALL MARKET
and the TWINS themselves View Themselves as SMALL MARKET also, as on
the Twins Pre-Game on WCCO am830, some coach who was going to sub for Gardenhire (they announced Gardenhire was sick and wouldnt be managing last nite) was commenting on a question of how some of the September Call-Ups
would affect their team down the Playoff Stretch. The Interim guy said that
"were a 'Small-Market' Team, and we dont have the Luxury of just going out and buying any player we want to fill our holes. We have to rely on our Farm System and Draft to keep up with the Big Market teams (offhandedly refers to 'New Yorks/Chicagos/Atlantas/Bostons) We have to make sure were TEACHING (stresses the word Teaching) our minor league players EVERYTHING the same way from Single A to Triple AAA, they need to know and we use the generally Same set of signals and cut-off plays, hit-and-run, everything. We teach and teach and teach so when they Get here to the big club, they can fit right in with the big team and dont have to worry about anything else, just Producing"
I found his Comments Fitting, and was funny because moments later, the Fans would mention the same things. I guess since its obvious the Twins and their Fans believe their SMALL MARKET, why does JERRY REINSDORF try to lump himself in with the TWINS of the baseball world?
Why do some SOX Fans also believe were a small market team?
I hear Uncle Jerry spew this garbage long enough, to the point that I can see how some of us just start to believe it. I dont. I wholeheartedly believe were a BIG MARKET team pretending were a SMALL MARKET TEAM
and spending money or lack thereof, the same way. Thats ashamed.

Also, the Twins Media is running a Big Story on Buehrles comments recently
on how "Our season (talking about sox season) will be over Oct. 3, they'll (the Twins) will simply play a few more days and they'll be one and out too"
I saw the way they worded the story in a Mike Kiley-esque attempt at Fueling the Fans Ire for Tonites Game.

HomeFish
09-16-2004, 02:37 PM
The White Sox are a small-market team. We have 9 million people, but the majority are cub fans. Lack of fans and low attendence means low income, hence we are a small-market team.

We spend like one too.

Baby Fisk
09-16-2004, 02:45 PM
The White Sox are a small-market team. We have 9 million people, but the majority are cub fans. Lack of fans and low attendence means low income, hence we are a small-market team.

We spend like one too.It's like the chicken-egg argument. Are we a small market team because Chicago is a Cubs city? Or did we make Chicago a Cubs city by acting like a small market team? Several posters here with longer memories recall a time when Chicago was a Sox town and the Cubs floundered in sub-mediocre anonymity. Imagine what that must have been like...

Hangar18
09-16-2004, 02:50 PM
Big market team with a small minded owner. :angry:

:sahaf

"This is Crazy Talk. White Sox ... ALWAYS .... Small Market Team. U.S. tells you Chicago is 3rd Largest Market is all Propoganda and Lies !!! The Great Owner Reinsdorf wants World Series Badly .......... These are Lies !! He CANNOT Spend right now ....... because not many Fans come to Park !!

Hangar18
09-16-2004, 02:56 PM
It's like the chicken-egg argument. Are we a small market team because Chicago is a Cubs city? Or did we make Chicago a Cubs city by acting like a small market team? Several posters here with longer memories recall a time when Chicago was a Sox town and the Cubs floundered in sub-mediocre anonymity. Imagine what that must have been like...
:sahaf
" Again !! Baby Fisk tells Great Lies! His Greatness and supreme shareholder Mr Reinsdorf say this always Cub Town. Sox only moved here in 1970's and have no History, thats why this is Cubs Town! This talk of the Great Mr Reinsdorf making his team Small and making Cubs great by accident is all Great Lies!! many lies I tell you! I give you great example.
they tell you Harry Caray was Sox announcer for SOX first. Then show me proof in stadium ? You have no proof. They say there was old comiskey Park before. Then show me this proof! there is no proof, only parking lot.
All Lies!

ewokpelts
09-16-2004, 03:14 PM
:sahaf
" Again !! Baby Fisk tells Great Lies! His Greatness and supreme shareholder Mr Reinsdorf say this always Cub Town. Sox only moved here in 1970's and have no History, thats why this is Cubs Town! This talk of the Great Mr Reinsdorf making his team Small and making Cubs great by accident is all Great Lies!! many lies I tell you! I give you great example.
they tell you Harry Caray was Sox announcer for SOX first. Then show me proof in stadium ? You have no proof. They say there was old comiskey Park before. Then show me this proof! there is no proof, only parking lot.
All Lies!Henry,
Did you take your medicine?
Gene

bigfoot
09-16-2004, 05:55 PM
JR, the Great Prevaricator, has sold this "This is a Cubs town" crap, with the same dog and pony show that Walter O'Malley used to skip town with JR's beloved Brooklyn Dodgers. JR has been quoted many times as being a broken-hearted Dodger fan as a boy, but has seen fit to use the same penny-pinching tactics as the hated O'Malley. O'Malley used the the same, "it's a Yankee town" whine, in an attempt to get a new stadium built. Argued with Robert Moses(NYC city planner) over the use of Ebbets Field, and finally moved to LA when O'Malley secured the Chavez Ravine site in LA for the present Dodger Stadium.

~Hasn't JR used the same BS on the Sox fans? Chicago: a Cobz town; small market team; build be a new park or I'll leave; nobody attends, so why should I try?
~Were it not for Portland's stupidity in the 1984 NBA draft, wouldn't the Bulls have been in the same situation? But MJ wouldn't let that happen, even with the expertise of JR.

soxwon
09-16-2004, 08:18 PM
Im going to take another Twinkie Fan Poll Tonite at the game.
But interesting to NOTE how Twins Fans view themselves as SMALL MARKET
and the TWINS themselves View Themselves as SMALL MARKET also, as on
the Twins Pre-Game on WCCO am830, some coach who was going to sub for Gardenhire (they announced Gardenhire was sick and wouldnt be managing last nite) was commenting on a question of how some of the September Call-Ups
would affect their team down the Playoff Stretch. The Interim guy said that
"were a 'Small-Market' Team, and we dont have the Luxury of just going out and buying any player we want to fill our holes. We have to rely on our Farm System and Draft to keep up with the Big Market teams (offhandedly refers to 'New Yorks/Chicagos/Atlantas/Bostons) We have to make sure were TEACHING (stresses the word Teaching) our minor league players EVERYTHING the same way from Single A to Triple AAA, they need to know and we use the generally Same set of signals and cut-off plays, hit-and-run, everything. We teach and teach and teach so when they Get here to the big club, they can fit right in with the big team and dont have to worry about anything else, just Producing"
I found his Comments Fitting, and was funny because moments later, the Fans would mention the same things. I guess since its obvious the Twins and their Fans believe their SMALL MARKET, why does JERRY REINSDORF try to lump himself in with the TWINS of the baseball world?
Why do some SOX Fans also believe were a small market team?
I hear Uncle Jerry spew this garbage long enough, to the point that I can see how some of us just start to believe it. I dont. I wholeheartedly believe were a BIG MARKET team pretending were a SMALL MARKET TEAM
and spending money or lack thereof, the same way. Thats ashamed.

Also, the Twins Media is running a Big Story on Buehrles comments recently
on how "Our season (talking about sox season) will be over Oct. 3, they'll (the Twins) will simply play a few more days and they'll be one and out too"
I saw the way they worded the story in a Mike Kiley-esque attempt at Fueling the Fans Ire for Tonites Game.
I hate to say it but the twins are FOR REAL.
Im begining to think they will be in the WORLD SERIES
facing the cardinals.

it will be years before we get as good as Minn.