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PorkChopExpress
09-14-2004, 05:11 PM
"Looking at the schedule a few months ago, I thought these would be huge games. Now, it's not looking that way." -- Konerko on the upcoming three-game series at the Metrodome

This is from the game preview on mlb.com. This is the kind of attitude that kills us. Every series is huge, and you have to play as such, whether you're out of it or not. I understand that chances are slim to none, and none is currently boarding his plane out of here, but you cannot start thinking like this. This, "it's over, who cares" attitude sucks. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I want to see these guys go into the Twinks place with fire and play their hearts out and earn a little respect. Let's knock Santana out, let's sweep them, let's do something other than roll over and die.

batmanZoSo
09-14-2004, 05:21 PM
"Looking at the schedule a few months ago, I thought these would be huge games. Now, it's not looking that way." -- Konerko on the upcoming three-game series at the Metrodome

This is from the game preview on mlb.com. This is the kind of attitude that kills us. Every series is huge, and you have to play as such, whether you're out of it or not. I understand that chances are slim to none, and none is currently boarding his plane out of here, but you cannot start thinking like this. This, "it's over, who cares" attitude sucks. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I want to see these guys go into the Twinks place with fire and play their hearts out and earn a little respect. Let's knock Santana out, let's sweep them, let's do something other than roll over and die.
These guys are no different from you or me. When you played baseball as a kid, you knew when you were down 13-1 in the 5th that the game was over. I think Konerko is just marvelling at how far they've fallen out of the race. You would have thought the six games would determine the division winner, but it's already been decided. That's what Konerko's saying.

To tell you the truth, I kinda wish they treated every series lightly because they've shown how they buckle under pressure.

PorkChopExpress
09-14-2004, 05:28 PM
These guys are no different from you or me. When you played baseball as a kid, you knew when you were down 13-1 in the 5th that the game was over. I think Konerko is just marvelling at how far they've fallen out of the race. You would have thought the six games would determine the division winner, but it's already been decided. That's what Konerko's saying.

To tell you the truth, I kinda wish they treated every series lightly because they've shown how they buckle under pressure.
I don't know that I was ever on a winning team as a kid, but that didn't mean I gave up. I always played until the end because I loved to play, and it's not over until it's over. Besides, a 14-13 come-from-behind win is totally worth the effort, as is a Twin whooping.

balke
09-14-2004, 06:30 PM
I don't know that I was ever on a winning team as a kid, but that didn't mean I gave up. I always played until the end because I loved to play, and it's not over until it's over. Besides, a 14-13 come-from-behind win is totally worth the effort, as is a Twin whooping.As much as we the fans would like to see twinkie stew made this week, along with some retaliation, I'm thinking that's probably the last thing on the players minds. They just want to end the season above .500, and play again next year. No reason to start a fight if you are them, unless we seriously think we were robbed of anything this season by them. I don't think the Twins cost us 10 games.

HITMEN OF 77
09-14-2004, 06:48 PM
These guys are no different from you or me. When you played baseball as a kid, you knew when you were down 13-1 in the 5th that the game was over. I think Konerko is just marvelling at how far they've fallen out of the race. You would have thought the six games would determine the division winner, but it's already been decided. That's what Konerko's saying.

To tell you the truth, I kinda wish they treated every series lightly because they've shown how they buckle under pressure.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

JB98
09-14-2004, 08:06 PM
I don't know that I was ever on a winning team as a kid, but that didn't mean I gave up. I always played until the end because I loved to play, and it's not over until it's over. Besides, a 14-13 come-from-behind win is totally worth the effort, as is a Twin whooping.

I don't think Konerko said he's giving up, or that he's not going to give an effort. He just said these aren't huge games, and frankly, he's right.

Hangar18
09-14-2004, 08:53 PM
The Problem IS/WAS, Jerry Reinsdorf. His FOOLISH cutting back of Payroll when the teams needs dictated SPENDING Further hurt the team when they needed just a hole or two filled. We will watch the Playoffs on TV .....AGAIN
in 2004.

juanuribe
09-14-2004, 10:13 PM
The Problem IS/WAS, Jerry Reinsdorf. His FOOLISH cutting back of Payroll when the teams needs dictated SPENDING Further hurt the team when they needed just a hole or two filled. We will watch the Playoffs on TV .....AGAIN
in 2004.
Blaming Reinsdorf for this year's demise is nothing but hogwash.

KW went out and got the best pitcher available, AND signed him to a long term deal. KW cut the dead weight that was Esteban Loaiza to acquire Jose Contreras who happens to be signed for 2 more years at DOUBLE Loaiza's 2004 salary. I don't see cutting back payroll when you trade a player (Olivo) who wasn't even making a million for Garcia who was making WELL over that, maybe my math skills need work though.

Everybody whines about the pillaging of the farm system, so who would you have traded for rent-a-player Carlos Beltran. Beltran may have been the best guy on the block this year, but don't forget his agent is Scott Boras who keeps his clients away from the Sox as if we were the plague, and will probably command 15 million plus next year regardless.

So, my question is this, how would spending more money have salvaged this team? Instead of whines and gripes, say something constructive or creative, not just "your mama!"

After seeing how this team folded like a piece of paper at an origami class in the 6th tonight, the problem is lack of intestinal fortitude. The Twins aren't a more talented team, they are flat out more of a team. They care about each other, our guys could take a page from their book. I turned the game off in disgust, but I hope I hear on the radio tomorrow that someone put one between the 4 & the 8 on Torii's back. Oh, by the way, what's the Twinkies payroll?? Bet it's lower than ours....

voodoochile
09-14-2004, 10:19 PM
Blaming Reinsdorf for this year's demise is nothing but hogwash.

KW went out and got the best pitcher available, AND signed him to a long term deal. KW cut the dead weight that was Esteban Loaiza to acquire Jose Contreras who happens to be signed for 2 more years at DOUBLE Loaiza's 2004 salary. I don't see cutting back payroll when you trade a player (Olivo) who wasn't even making a million for Garcia who was making WELL over that, maybe my math skills need work though.

Everybody whines about the pillaging of the farm system, so who would you have traded for rent-a-player Carlos Beltran. Beltran may have been the best guy on the block this year, but don't forget his agent is Scott Boras who keeps his clients away from the Sox as if we were the plague, and will probably command 15 million plus next year regardless.

So, my question is this, how would spending more money have salvaged this team? Instead of whines and gripes, say something constructive or creative, not just "your mama!"

After seeing how this team folded like a piece of paper at an origami class in the 6th tonight, the problem is lack of intestinal fortitude. The Twins aren't a more talented team, they are flat out more of a team. They care about each other, our guys could take a page from their book. I turned the game off in disgust, but I hope I hear on the radio tomorrow that someone put one between the 4 & the 8 on Torii's back. Oh, by the way, what's the Twinkies payroll?? Bet it's lower than ours....
You go on and on defending JR and right in the middle of your rant is point number one for why he sucks...

He's a cheap cheap man and he has damaged this franchise in too many ways to enumerate. His reputation is well deserved, whether anything could have been done to fix this year or not...

chisoxcardsbabe
09-14-2004, 10:20 PM
I hope I hear on the radio tomorrow that someone put one between the 4 & the 8 on Torii's back.

Witty. Perhaps the only thought that may keep me from completely going insane.

kittle42
09-14-2004, 10:23 PM
Blaming Reinsdorf for this year's demise is nothing but hogwash.

KW went out and got the best pitcher available, AND signed him to a long term deal. KW cut the dead weight that was Esteban Loaiza to acquire Jose Contreras who happens to be signed for 2 more years at DOUBLE Loaiza's 2004 salary. I don't see cutting back payroll when you trade a player (Olivo) who wasn't even making a million for Garcia who was making WELL over that, maybe my math skills need work though.

Everybody whines about the pillaging of the farm system, so who would you have traded for rent-a-player Carlos Beltran. Beltran may have been the best guy on the block this year, but don't forget his agent is Scott Boras who keeps his clients away from the Sox as if we were the plague, and will probably command 15 million plus next year regardless.

So, my question is this, how would spending more money have salvaged this team? Instead of whines and gripes, say something constructive or creative, not just "your mama!"
Worst post ever.

juanuribe
09-14-2004, 10:25 PM
You go on and on defending JR and right in the middle of your rant is point number one for why he sucks...

He's a cheap cheap man and he has damaged this franchise in too many ways to enumerate. His reputation is well deserved, whether anything could have been done to fix this year or not...
The problem with Boras has more to do with Ron Schueler's time as GM than with Reinsdorf. Boras and Schu HATE each other.

And, I feel you're inaccurate when you say I defended him, I was pointing out facts.

It's always easy to point fingers and generalize instead of trying to be objective and rational. Losing sucks, and we all hate seeing the team we root for lose, but I'd rather assess blame accurately instead of at the easiest target.

juanuribe
09-14-2004, 10:26 PM
Worst post ever.Thanks for the criticism, there's a lot I could learn from a review like that.

If you could be more specific I will try to see the err of my ways and be more acceptable to the mainstream.

voodoochile
09-14-2004, 10:27 PM
The problem with Boras has more to do with Ron Schueler's time as GM than with Reinsdorf. Boras and Schu HATE each other.

And, I feel you're inaccurate when you say I defended him, I was pointing out facts.

It's always easy to point fingers and generalize instead of trying to be objective and rational. Losing sucks, and we all hate seeing the team we root for lose, but I'd rather assess blame accurately instead of at the easiest target.
Okay, what about the other 24 years?:o:

You know people aren't the person you know from the last 15 minutes, they are the people they have always been.

:selljerry

juanuribe
09-14-2004, 10:36 PM
Okay, what about the other 24 years?:o:

You know people aren't the person you know from the last 15 minutes, they are the people they have always been.
Don't get me wrong, I was just talking about this year. Dredging up the past (especially ChiSox past) does nothing but dredge up bad memories. Anyone who has owned something (or been chairman or whatever) for 2 1/2 decades is going to f'up, it's just the law of averages, but no one keeps a job for that long either unless someone thinks they are doing something right. Obviously most posters feel he's a doofus (or is it dufus), but sadly, the people he answers to must think he's giving them reason to keep his title.

I think the most frustrating thing is that people can posts millions of posts and guess what, JR's not going to sell, in fact odds are no one in the organization who matters will even see this board. I guess it's nice that we can have a place to vent.

One thing I will say and I doubt anyone can argue with it is that "winning cures evertyhing." Michael Jordan made Steve Schanwald a marketing genius with the Bulls, if only Frank Thomas has the proper pieces he needed in the early 90s, if only there wasn't the strike of '94 (BTW, JR's fault IMO).

Hey, rest your head on this thought, at least we're not Hawks fans.:?:

batmanZoSo
09-14-2004, 11:25 PM
KW went out and got the best pitcher available, AND signed him to a long term deal. KW cut the dead weight that was Esteban Loaiza to acquire Jose Contreras who happens to be signed for 2 more years at DOUBLE Loaiza's 2004 salary. I don't see cutting back payroll when you trade a player (Olivo) who wasn't even making a million for Garcia who was making WELL over that, maybe my math skills need work though.
The problem is all these moves, though much appreciated, are too little too late. JR's m.o. is to wait and see how good we are before he puts an extra dime into this team. We came into this year with a then unknown Juan Uribe as the second baseman (or Willie if you prefer, neither a promising spectacle at the time), a rotation of Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland and two flat-out gaping holes, no closer and a weak middle relief. Somehow, Ozzie managed to have us in or within a game of first for the first three months of the season, so only THEN did Reinsdorf give Williams the okay to address a few team needs. And you know what? It still wasn't enough.

bigfoot
09-14-2004, 11:58 PM
Don't get me wrong, I was just talking about this year. Dredging up the past (especially ChiSox past) does nothing but dredge up bad memories. Anyone who has owned something (or been chairman or whatever) for 2 1/2 decades is going to f'up, it's just the law of averages, but no one keeps a job for that long either unless someone thinks they are doing something right. Obviously most posters feel he's a doofus (or is it dufus), but sadly, the people he answers to must think he's giving them reason to keep his title.

I think the most frustrating thing is that people can posts millions of posts and guess what, JR's not going to sell, in fact odds are no one in the organization who matters will even see this board. I guess it's nice that we can have a place to vent.

One thing I will say and I doubt anyone can argue with it is that "winning cures evertyhing." Michael Jordan made Steve Schanwald a marketing genius with the Bulls, if only Frank Thomas has the proper pieces he needed in the early 90s, if only there wasn't the strike of '94 (BTW, JR's fault IMO).

Hey, rest your head on this thought, at least we're not Hawks fans.:?:
Juan~ You'd have a valid point, if the people that JR answers to had the same business objective as you or I. Jr's FIRST responsibility is to the investors of the Chicago White Sox Inc. That is a fiduciary duty to provide a profit and favorable return on investment. If that happens to create a winning Sox team, so much the better, but you can be certain that this is not in the corporate charter. We, as fans, only care about the a single bottom line W/L, not P/L. It's all about the perspective.

pudge
09-15-2004, 01:22 AM
Thanks for the criticism, there's a lot I could learn from a review like that.

If you could be more specific I will try to see the err of my ways and be more acceptable to the mainstream.
juan, whenever you get that obnoxious "worst post ever" garbage, just ignore it... I got into so many fights on this board until I finally realized there are certain "camps" that aren't going to change their minds (ie, Reinsdorf is the Devil, Kenny Williams Sucks, etc, etc,) If someone says to you "Worst post ever" you've probably managed to say something with a shred of truth that they can't handle... you know, the old Jack Nicholson line... "You can't handle the truth!" :cool:

ma-gaga
09-15-2004, 03:54 AM
The problem is all these moves, though much appreciated, are too little too late. JR's m.o. is to wait and see how good we are before he puts an extra dime into this team. We came into this year with a then unknown Juan Uribe as the second baseman (or Willie if you prefer, neither a promising spectacle at the time), a rotation of Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland and two flat-out gaping holes, no closer and a weak middle relief. Somehow, Ozzie managed to have us in or within a game of first for the first three months of the season, so only THEN did Reinsdorf give Williams the okay to address a few team needs. And you know what? It still wasn't enough.
Something is missing here. AHA. Injuries to Maggs/Thomas killed this season. Bottom line, the pitching was good enough, the bullpen was good enough, the role players were good enough, but those two out destroyed whatever offensive continuity this team had.

They are finally figuring out how to win without those two, but it took 20-30 games, and the Twins pulled away.

gosox41
09-15-2004, 08:31 AM
The Problem IS/WAS, Jerry Reinsdorf. His FOOLISH cutting back of Payroll when the teams needs dictated SPENDING Further hurt the team when they needed just a hole or two filled. We will watch the Playoffs on TV .....AGAIN
in 2004.

When did he cutback payroll this year?


Bob

kittle42
09-15-2004, 10:40 AM
When did he cutback payroll this year?
I think what Henry meant was more "constraining" and not a technical cutting back.

gosox41
09-15-2004, 10:53 AM
I think what Henry meant was more "constraining" and not a technical cutting back.
There is a difference. And if he wants to look at contraining, look at 2003 vs. 2004. How many teams actually raised payroll 20% in that time period? I expect payroll will be up next year, though I have no idea how much.


Bob

soxfanreggie
09-15-2004, 11:04 AM
I too think payroll will be up. And if we need other players later in the season (who hopefully aren't Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar), I'm sure it will go up again. If we have a shot at someone who will make us better, I'm sure we'll take a shot at him. Should we grossly overspend on a player? No, that would hurt us more taking away from what we could spend on someone else and use the difference to get some other quality players. I think we could offer Beltran 5/6 years 70/80 millions, somewhere around there. I don't think Beltran can command 100 million yet, but then again, I didn't think Kevin Brown was worth $100 million either...

Hangar18
09-15-2004, 11:53 AM
The problem is all these moves, though much appreciated, are too little too late. JR's m.o. is to wait and see how good we are before he puts an extra dime into this team. We came into this year with a then unknown Juan Uribe as the second baseman (or Willie if you prefer, neither a promising spectacle at the time), a rotation of Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland and two flat-out gaping holes, no closer and a weak middle relief. Somehow, Ozzie managed to have us in or within a game of first for the first three months of the season, so only THEN did Reinsdorf give Williams the okay to address a few team needs. And you know what? It still wasn't enough.
Post of the Week. The SOX decided to Address their needs, Long after
it was too late, and after anyone else could be available. Going into a Season with only a #1 and #2 pitcher, and questions about #3, #4, #5
is FOOLISH and Never gets your team Anywhere.
Didnt we Learn from 2001?
We didnt have a Closer.
Didnt we Learn from 2003?
and a Weakened Middle Relief, which was done by our own hands ...as we let key players leave, and Replaced with Cheaper Facsimiles.
Didnt we Learn from 1995 ??
or 1997? or 1998?
DOES THIS ORGANIZATION LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES? Ever???

Hangar18
09-15-2004, 12:09 PM
When did he cutback payroll this year?


Bob
When he DIDNT actively pursue Free Agents in the Offseason, to FILL HOLES.
HE actually wanted to cut back....... so guys like Tony Graffanino (man he wouldve been the difference in a few games this yr) were let go. Flash Gordon was allowed to "leave". They made a half-hearted effort at Colon, and had he Called Uncle Jerrys Bluff, maggs wouldve been Given Away. They still tried to unload him and his $14 mill due. So yeah, he cut back in my eyes,
because he couldnt unload everyone ............

maurice
09-15-2004, 12:15 PM
The problem is all these moves, though much appreciated, are too little too late. JR's m.o. is to wait and see how good we are before he puts an extra dime into this team.
Exactly! We needed to add a top-of-the-rotation starter and another solid reliever during the offseason. (An IF who can hit and field would have been nice also.) JR tied KW's hands by limiting the budget, while other big market clubs went on spending sprees. (KW also played a role by giving big contracts to mediocre players.) It would have been helpful to have Garcia on the team from day one. You know OG wanted him, and his asking price would have been much lower.

Coincidentally, KW's prescription for this offseason is to add another starter and reliever. Because of our crappy ownership, KW will need to dump salary to clear "cap space" and likely will be unable to afford to add an IF who can hit and field.

:reinsy
"If you come, we will build it, Sox fans. It's all your fault!"

balke
09-15-2004, 12:20 PM
When he DIDNT actively pursue Free Agents in the Offseason, to FILL HOLES.
HE actually wanted to cut back....... so guys like Tony Graffanino (man he wouldve been the difference in a few games this yr) were let go. Flash Gordon was allowed to "leave". They made a half-hearted effort at Colon, and had he Called Uncle Jerrys Bluff, maggs wouldve been Given Away. They still tried to unload him and his $14 mill due. So yeah, he cut back in my eyes,
because he couldnt unload everyone ............
Unloading maggs would've been the intelligent thing to do. Are you complaining because we'd have Nomar at SS, and Timo at right, instead of Jose at SS and Maggs at right? Heck, season starts like that, we might be the ones who went after Beltran.

Flash wasn't coming back. Colon wasn't coming hack. Maggs wasn't coming back. It's not about money, they wanted to be somewhere else for the same money, or way too much money.

In the end it still nailed us, cause Maggs went out with an injury. Sox have been trying to get a leader at SS for a while, and have failed miserably. There was a time we were supposed to get Tejada, and failed. Tried to get Nomar, and failed. Now we will end up with a someone like Renteria or Cabrera... not as good as Tejada or Nomar.

maurice
09-15-2004, 12:29 PM
Flash wasn't coming back. Colon wasn't coming hack. Maggs wasn't coming back. It's not about money, they wanted to be somewhere else for the same money, or way too much money.
Source?

Maggs and Colon both negotiated with the Sox but declined offers they felt were too low. Colon got more money to play for the Angels (thankfully). Maggs guessed wrong. IIRC, the Sox didn't even make Gordon an offer, because KW had no room left in the budget.

mdep524
09-15-2004, 12:40 PM
When he DIDNT actively pursue Free Agents in the Offseason, to FILL HOLES.
HE actually wanted to cut back....... so guys like Tony Graffanino (man he wouldve been the difference in a few games this yr) were let go. Flash Gordon was allowed to "leave". They made a half-hearted effort at Colon, and had he Called Uncle Jerrys Bluff, maggs wouldve been Given Away. They still tried to unload him and his $14 mill due. So yeah, he cut back in my eyes,
because he couldnt unload everyone ............The attempt to sign Colon was NOT half-hearted. Bartolo would be sucking it up here in Chicago right now if it weren't for rookie owner Art Moreno overpaying. I love Tony G, and wish he were here, but he is NOT a difference-maker, and definitely would not have made a significant difference in this season's outcome. Also, you realize that if the Sox had handcuffed themselves by signing Colon, we wouldn't have Freddie right now.

Also, I'm just wondering here, if the Sox had signed Graffanino or Colon in the offseason, would that have prevented Magglio and Frank from getting hurt? :?:

balke
09-15-2004, 12:44 PM
Source?
I'll show you mine, if you show me yours :tongue:

juanuribe
09-15-2004, 01:35 PM
When he DIDNT actively pursue Free Agents in the Offseason, to FILL HOLES.
HE actually wanted to cut back....... so guys like Tony Graffanino (man he wouldve been the difference in a few games this yr) were let go. Flash Gordon was allowed to "leave". They made a half-hearted effort at Colon, and had he Called Uncle Jerrys Bluff, maggs wouldve been Given Away. They still tried to unload him and his $14 mill due. So yeah, he cut back in my eyes,
because he couldnt unload everyone ............
Oh yeah, I forgot what a difference maker TGraf was during his tenure here.

Let's be accurate as to Graf's departure, it wasn't necessarily about $$$, but about playing everyday. The Royals promised to make him an everyday player, which is why he went to KC. Sure, he got more $$$ from them but he was booked to play every day, not be a utility guy at utility guy pay.

Colon got an extra year from the Beer Baron in Anaheim that's why he signed there, the amount per year was the same the Sox offered, and btw, what did we win with his gigantic rump on the bump anyway.

You hate JR, fine, hate him all you want but get your facts straight, and don't let your unmitigated dislike blind you from seeing facts.

juanuribe
09-15-2004, 01:39 PM
Post of the Week. The SOX decided to Address their needs, Long after
it was too late, and after anyone else could be available. Going into a Season with only a #1 and #2 pitcher, and questions about #3, #4, #5
is FOOLISH and Never gets your team Anywhere.
Didnt we Learn from 2001?
We didnt have a Closer.
Didnt we Learn from 2003?
and a Weakened Middle Relief, which was done by our own hands ...as we let key players leave, and Replaced with Cheaper Facsimiles.
Didnt we Learn from 1995 ??
or 1997? or 1998?
DOES THIS ORGANIZATION LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES? Ever???
If this team sucks so bad and is so mismanaged, why do they earn your fandom?

Lip Man 1
09-15-2004, 06:51 PM
Take a look at the Sox bullpen this year and see if they couldn't have used Gordon and Sullivan?

When you are the second team in a two team town you need to aggressively make news and explore your options. Having a 'do nothing' off season does wonders for the season ticket sales doesn't it? (not even counting the on field production. Want to bet the Sox don't hit the 86 wins they had last year? That's regressing partner, not progressing.) It's all tied together.

and many of us have no choice but to root for the Sox no matter how awful the franchise is. Some people have a strong sense of loyality especially if they were born and raised in Chicago and actually remember the years when the Sox were worth a damn and the only support the Cubs had was from the people who lived in the neighborhood of Wrigley Field. Go back and read your history of the 50's and 60's (through 67).

Lip

eshunn2001
09-15-2004, 07:00 PM
Here is the problem.....The Chicago Whitesox are not a very good baseball team. We have so many problems that a message board could not possibly figure all af them out. They have NO HEART. And Payroll is not the issue, Look at the A's and Twins. (yes, I would rather be in the playoffs every year and lose, then not be there at all.) Who Knows, Hey guys (and gals) Theres always next year. We are all used to saying that aren't we?

juanuribe
09-15-2004, 07:01 PM
Take a look at the Sox bullpen this year and see if they couldn't have used Gordon and Sullivan?

When you are the second team in a two team town you need to aggressively make news and explore your options. Having a 'do nothing' off season does wonders for the season ticket sales doesn't it? (not even counting the on field production. Want to bet the Sox don't hit the 86 wins they had last year? That's regressing partner, not progressing.) It's all tied together.

and many of us have no choice but to root for the Sox no matter how awful the franchise is. Some people have a strong sense of loyality especially if they were born and raised in Chicago and actually remember the years when the Sox were worth a damn and the only support the Cubs had was from the people who lived in the neighborhood of Wrigley Field. Go back and read your history of the 50's and 60's (through 67).

Lip
When Sullivan signed with KC, I was P'Oed. That was the one late season pick up we should have kept. His Wunsch-esque motion from the right side would have been a great thing to keep, plus hit veteran status might have added something else to the bullpen.

Tom Gordon is baseball's version of a porcelain vase in the house with a 3 year old. You know that the odds are at some point it's going to get broken. Can it be remedied quickly with some Krazy Glue or is it ready for the dumpster? I would not have resigned Gordo, especially with the $$$ the Yanks threw his way, All Star appearance not withstanding.

Loyality is a commendable (if not damn frustrating sometimes) trait. But the constant negativity of some on these boards is vexing and sometimes contradictory. My statement you referenced was more aimed at one particular poster rather than the masses.

All I can say is that with increased attendance for this year, there better be some moves made from Oct-Apr. There are FAs out there who fit holes we need filled, we've got a decent foundation built, let's get what we need. This more than any offseason will be a measuring stick for the KW years.