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maurice
09-13-2004, 02:57 PM
I was going to wait until October to include complete season stats for all ten guys, but since the board is dead and the season already has (unofficially) ended, I might as well beat everybody to the punch and post my heavily anticipated Top Ten Prospects list. I look forward to lists by Randar, Daver, Rex, etc.

BTW, this is not a prediction of BA’s list, since I have a somewhat different outlook than most of the folks at BA. In particular, I’m biased against low-level prospects and pitching prospects. Minor league stats were taken from BA’s website. Without further eloquence, I give you my Sox Top 10 prospects for 2004:

1. Brandon McCarthy - RHP: AA stats - 3 W, 1 L, 3.46 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 5:1 K:BB, 4 GS. A+ stats - 6 W, 0 L, 2.08 ERA, 0.65 WHIP, 20:1 K:BB, 8 GS. A stats - 8 W, 5 L, 3.64 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 5.5:1 K:BB, 15 GS. This fast-moving 21 year old has been totally dominating at times, posting an unreal 20:1 K:BB ratio while going undefeated in eight starts at Winston-Salem. If he keeps up his torrid pace, Sox brass will have to give him a shot with the big club some time in 2005, an unthinkably fast advance through the system. It probably would be better, however, if he got at least one more full year in the minors.

2. Brian Anderson - CF: AA stats - .270 AVE, .346 OBP, .416 SLG, 3 SB, 48 Games. A+ stats - .319 AVE, .394 OBP, .531 SLG, 10 SB, 69 Games. Bats right. The Sox top pick in 2003 showcased his abilities as an outstanding, all-around player at two levels before tailing off late in the season as a result of a hernia and a groin injury, which ended his season prematurely. He could become a fixture in CF for the big-league club as early as mid-2005 and for years to come.

3. Ryan Sweeney - OF: A+ stats - .283 AVE, .342 OBP, .379 SLG, 8 SB, 134 Games. Bats left. This highly coveted 19 year old was rushed to the high minors after a torrid spring, where he received some national attention after smoking a line drive off of Bartolo Colon. At first glance, his production at Winston-Salem was unimpressive . . . until you realize that he’s only a year removed from prep baseball in Iowa. His hitting improved towards the end of the season, and you can expect him to step it up another notch during a full season at Birmingham.

4. Josh Fields - 3B: A+ stats - .285 AVE, .333 OBP, .445 SLG, 0 SB, 66 Games. Bats right. The Sox 2004 top pick also was rushed, reportedly as an incentive to sign soon after the draft. The Sox ended up signing what must be a record number of picks. Fields (not to be confused with "the other Josh Fields" who had a good year in relief for Birmingham) is a former college QB with very good power potential, though his future may not be at 3B. He started slowly but came on after adjusting to pro ball, hitting over .300 with power during both August and September.

5. Chris Young - CF: A stats - .262 AVE, .365 OBP, .505 SLG, 31 SB, 135 Games. Bats right. An extremely talented athlete, he brings a package of power, speed, and the ability to take a walk. Young has the potential to be an outstanding major leaguer if he can make more contact, but first he’ll need to produce in the high minors.

6. Jeff Bajenaru - RHP: MLB stats - pending. AAA stats - 10 Saves, 1.80 ERA, 0.75 WHIP, 5:1 K:BB. AA stats - 12 Saves, 1.34 ERA, 0.89 WHIP, 5:1 K:BB. He had an outstanding year as a closer at two levels before struggling during a late-season callup. Let's give him more than 3 MLB IP before making any definitive judgments. The Sox don’t usually give minor-league relievers much of a shot to pitch for them at the MLB level, but perhaps they'll make an exception.

7. Arnie Munoz - LHP: MLB stats - pending. AAA stats - 2 W, 6 L, 5.68 ERA, 1.58 WHIP, 2:1 K:BB, 13 GS. AA stats - 7 W, 2 L, 2.05 ERA, 0.99 WHIP, 3:1 K:BB, 13 GS. Throw out his start for the Sox. He had always been a reliever until this year, he projects as a MLB reliever, and he should be given a chance to fill a spot in the pen out of spring training. (So far, after 4.1 IP, he's yet to give up a run in relief for the Sox.) Munoz was thrown into the fire as a MLB starter after a surprisingly strong showing as a starter at Birmingham, but with zero starts at AAA and zero MLB relief appearances. That's not particularly fair (or wise).

8. Sean Tracey - RHP: A+ stats - 9 W, 8 L, 2.73 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 2:1 K:BB, 27 GS. He posted the best ERA among Carolina League starters not named "McCarthy," though it’s not reflected in his won-loss record. Tracey’s notorious for plunking batters, hitting a remarkable 23 batsmen in 27 starts.


9. Casey Rogowski - 1B/OF: A+ stats - .286 AVE, .401 OBP, .471 SLG, 16 SB, 136 Games. Bats left. Rogowski had a solid season repeating a level at Winston-Salem. It’s unclear why he didn’t receive a mid-season promotion to Birmingham along with Anderson, but he’s sure to move up a level in 2005. He has the impressive combination of some power, some speed, and the ability to walk as often as he strikes out.

10. Gio Gonzalez - LHP: A stats - 1 W, 1 L, 3.03 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 2:1 K:BB, 6 GS. R stats - 1 W, 2 L, 2.25 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 4.5:1 K:BB, 6 GS. This 2004 pick had a great debut season. He’s very developed for a high school pitcher and could become the steal of the draft. Look for him to shoot up in the rankings in years to come if he stays healthy.

- - -

There was quite a bit of upward mobility this year, because last year’s Top 9 all either got traded, promoted to the Sox, or lost serious time due to injury. (The three injured pitchers from 2003's Top 10 illustrate the basis for my bias against low-level pitching prospects.) There's a good chance for similar mobility next year, with names like Hernandez, Lucy, Valido, Schnurstein, Liotta, Lumsden, Whisler, and Castro potentially making their first Top 10 appearances.

shagar69
09-13-2004, 03:05 PM
I was going to wait until October to include complete season stats for all ten guys, but since the board is dead and the season already has (unofficially) ended, I might as well beat everybody to the punch and post my heavily anticipated Top Ten Prospects list. I look forward to lists by Randar, Daver, Rex, etc.

BTW, this is not a prediction of BAís list, since I have a somewhat different outlook than most of the folks at BA. In particular, Iím biased against low-level prospects and pitching prospects. Minor league stats were taken from BAís website. Without further eloquence, I give you my Sox Top 10 prospects for 2004:

1. Brandon McCarthy - RHP: AA stats - 3 W, 1 L, 3.46 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 5:1 K:BB, 4 GS. A+ stats - 6 W, 0 L, 2.08 ERA, 0.65 WHIP, 20:1 K:BB, 8 GS. A stats - 8 W, 5 L, 3.64 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 5.5:1 K:BB, 15 GS. This fast-moving 21 year old has been totally dominating at times, posting an unreal 20:1 K:BB ratio while going undefeated in eight starts at Winston-Salem. If he keeps up his torrid pace, Sox brass will have to give him a shot with the big club some time in 2005, an unthinkably fast advance through the system. It probably would be better, however, if he got at least one more full year in the minors.

2. Brian Anderson - CF: AA stats - .270 AVE, .346 OBP, .416 SLG, 3 SB, 48 Games. A+ stats - .319 AVE, .394 OBP, .531 SLG, 10 SB, 69 Games. Bats right. The Sox top pick in 2003 showcased his abilities as an outstanding, all-around player at two levels before tailing off late in the season as a result of a hernia and a groin injury, which ended his season prematurely. He could become a fixture in CF for the big-league club as early as mid-2005 and for years to come.

3. Ryan Sweeney - OF: A+ stats - .283 AVE, .342 OBP, .379 SLG, 8 SB, 134 Games. Bats left. This highly coveted 19 year old was rushed to the high minors after a torrid spring, where he received some national attention after smoking a line drive off of Bartolo Colon. At first glance, his production at Winston-Salem was unimpressive . . . until you realize that heís only a year removed from prep baseball in Iowa. His hitting improved towards the end of the season, and you can expect him to step it up another notch during a full season at Birmingham.

4. Josh Fields - 3B: A+ stats - .285 AVE, .333 OBP, .445 SLG, 0 SB, 66 Games. Bats right. The Sox 2004 top pick also was rushed, reportedly as an incentive to sign soon after the draft. The Sox ended up signing what must be a record number of picks. Fields (not to be confused with "the other Josh Fields" who had a good year in relief for Birmingham) is a former college QB with very good power potential, though his future may not be at 3B. He started slowly but came on after adjusting to pro ball, hitting over .300 with power during both August and September.

5. Chris Young - CF: A stats - .262 AVE, .365 OBP, .505 SLG, 31 SB, 135 Games. Bats right. An extremely talented athlete, he brings a package of power, speed, and the ability to take a walk. Young has the potential to be an outstanding major leaguer if he can make more contact, but first heíll need to produce in the high minors.

6. Jeff Bajenaru - RHP: MLB stats - pending. AAA stats - 10 Saves, 1.80 ERA, 0.75 WHIP, 5:1 K:BB. AA stats - 12 Saves, 1.34 ERA, 0.89 WHIP, 5:1 K:BB. He had an outstanding year as a closer at two levels before struggling during a late-season callup. Let's give him more than 3 MLB IP before making any definitive judgments. The Sox donít usually give minor-league relievers much of a shot to pitch for them at the MLB level, but perhaps they'll make an exception.

7. Arnie Munoz - LHP: MLB stats - pending. AAA stats - 2 W, 6 L, 5.68 ERA, 1.58 WHIP, 2:1 K:BB, 13 GS. AA stats - 7 W, 2 L, 2.05 ERA, 0.99 WHIP, 3:1 K:BB, 13 GS. Throw out his start for the Sox. He had always been a reliever until this year, he projects as a MLB reliever, and he should be given a chance to fill a spot in the pen out of spring training. (So far, after 4.1 IP, he's yet to give up a run in relief for the Sox.) Munoz was thrown into the fire as a MLB starter after a surprisingly strong showing as a starter at Birmingham, but with zero starts at AAA and zero MLB relief appearances. That's not particularly fair (or wise).

8. Sean Tracey - RHP: A+ stats - 9 W, 8 L, 2.73 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 2:1 K:BB, 27 GS. He posted the best ERA among Carolina League starters not named "McCarthy," though itís not reflected in his won-loss record. Traceyís notorious for plunking batters, hitting a remarkable 23 batsmen in 27 starts.


9. Casey Rogowski - 1B/OF: A+ stats - .286 AVE, .401 OBP, .471 SLG, 16 SB, 136 Games. Bats left. Rogowski had a solid season repeating a level at Winston-Salem. Itís unclear why he didnít receive a mid-season promotion to Birmingham along with Anderson, but heís sure to move up a level in 2005. He has the impressive combination of some power, some speed, and the ability to walk as often as he strikes out.

10. Gio Gonzalez - LHP: A stats - 1 W, 1 L, 3.03 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 2:1 K:BB, 6 GS. R stats - 1 W, 2 L, 2.25 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 4.5:1 K:BB, 6 GS. This 2004 pick had a great debut season. Heís very developed for a high school pitcher and could become the steal of the draft. Look for him to shoot up in the rankings in years to come if he stays healthy.

- - -

There was quite a bit of upward mobility this year, because last yearís Top 9 all either got traded, promoted to the Sox, or lost serious time due to injury. (The three injured pitchers from 2003's Top 10 illustrate the basis for my bias against low-level pitching prospects.) There's a good chance for similar mobility next year, with names like Hernandez, Lucy, Valido, Schnurstein, Liotta, Lumsden, Whisler, and Castro potentially making their first Top 10 appearances. IMO baj isnt a prospect. and i think that if he could get his avg up a little bit, young would be tied with if not AHEAD of anderson and sweeney. hes got more power AND speed. i might add in a nanita or gray or stead of baj. also even though they are hurt, NO way in HELL should tracey be ahead of wing or honel. everything else looks good.

maurice
09-13-2004, 03:09 PM
wing or honel
As you can tell, I'm extremely apprehensive about Wing and Honel. I rated both very highly last year but would like to see them pitch at least one effective inning before returning them to Top 10 status.

IMHO, there's a big drop off between the 1-5 group and the 6-10 group.

shagar69
09-13-2004, 03:11 PM
As you can tell, I'm extremely apprehensive about Wing and Honel. I rated both very highly last year but would like to see them pitch at least one effective inning before returning them to Top 10 status.

IMHO, there's a big drop off between the 1-5 group and the 6-10 group. true, but im just worried about traceys control. IIRC he walked and hit a LOT of batters this year. but yeah, he definately along with whisler is one to watch

Randar68
09-13-2004, 03:45 PM
IMO baj isnt a prospect. and i think that if he could get his avg up a little bit, young would be tied with if not AHEAD of anderson and sweeney. hes got more power AND speed. i might add in a nanita or gray or stead of baj. also even though they are hurt, NO way in HELL should tracey be ahead of wing or honel. everything else looks good.I wouldn't put Gray or Nanita in there at all. IMO, in front of either of those 2 are Honel, Wing, Whisler, Lumsden. Baj is too high on the list, Tracey may be as well.

Honel and Wing should be docked a bit due to injury, but more for their lost seasons than the "injuries" Honel is still top 10 until he proves otherwise. Wing probably borderline. Valido and Lopez are borderline.

idseer
09-13-2004, 04:19 PM
thanks mo.
seem maybe kw didn't completely empty the cupboard ...and i didn't know about anderson's injuries.
nice to have some thing to look forward to.

shagar69
09-13-2004, 07:45 PM
I wouldn't put Gray or Nanita in there at all. IMO, in front of either of those 2 are Honel, Wing, Whisler, Lumsden. Baj is too high on the list, Tracey may be as well.

Honel and Wing should be docked a bit due to injury, but more for their lost seasons than the "injuries" Honel is still top 10 until he proves otherwise. Wing probably borderline. Valido and Lopez are borderline.intersting that you would put tyler in there. have you already seen enough from him to put him in the top ten? or is it because of the lack of SP depth in our system and/or injuries.

Mohoney
09-13-2004, 09:50 PM
intersting that you would put tyler in there. have you already seen enough from him to put him in the top ten? or is it because of the lack of SP depth in our system and/or injuries.
Can we count his college stats, or are we just looking at what they have done since getting into our system?

How much can we draw from college numbers with pitchers?

Randar68
09-13-2004, 10:16 PM
Can we count his college stats, or are we just looking at what they have done since getting into our system?

How much can we draw from college numbers with pitchers?

He had a dead arm shortly after reporting and really struggled with his control and velocity out of the gate. When I saw him, he was filthy and the curve alone puts him right up there along with his low 90's fastball from a lefty.

He isn't top ten, but he's a borderline guy who'll be right there in the 11-15 range. It does have something to do with the lack of healthy SP prospects.

I'm not going off numbers alone.

shagar69
09-13-2004, 10:18 PM
He had a dead arm shortly after reporting and really struggled with his control and velocity out of the gate. When I saw him, he was filthy and the curve alone puts him right up there along with his low 90's fastball from a lefty.

He isn't top ten, but he's a borderline guy who'll be right there in the 11-15 range. It does have something to do with the lack of healthy SP prospects.

I'm not going off numbers alone. how do you feel about whisler? i have read that he has great mechanics but havent heard too much about what he likes to throw.

A. Cavatica
09-14-2004, 12:04 AM
I might move people a spot or two (Fields/Baj/Tracey down, Rogo/Gio up) but I agree almost completely with your top ten. Rogo's chances are hurt (and Fields' are helped) by playing in a system that esteems power and doesn't care about batting eye.

As for injuries, if Honel & Wing return to form they should be top five/second five, respectively. Pacheco was also injured this year, but I don't think he'll ever crack the top ten. And Corwin Malone is presumably all done.

Here's my list of ten sleepers. These are players with lower ceilings who could get a shot next year, if they catch a break or two.

1) Wilson Valdez, SS, Charlotte. Pro: Almost certain to win a utility infielder's job next year, because Ozzie recommended him and because KW likes to show off the prizes he acquires from other teams. Hit .302 and can field. Con: He doesn't bring much power, speed, or strike zone judgment to the table.

2) Mike Spidale, CF, Birmingham. Pro: Took a great leap forward this year, and is fairly young. Showed the good leadoff-hitter skills that the Sox lack: a .304 average, 61 walks, 26 steals. He even showed some pop. He could win a reserve outfielder's job with a good spring, or could get a callup later in the year. Con: He has to keep producing at this level to convince people.

3) Josh Fields, RP, Birmingham. This is the relief pitcher, not the 3B. Pro: KW might call him up by accident. But in fact he's always posted good to excellent numbers, especially strikeout-walk ratios. Con: Sox are leery of minor league relievers.

4) Ryan Hankins, C/3B/1B, Charlotte. Pro: Hit .296 with almost as many doubles (25) and walks (30) as strikeouts (33). Was primarily a third baseman, but Sox switched him to catcher to improve his versatility, and has not embarrassed himself there. Con: He's older than most prospects, and he's not likely to get a look unless Burke gets injured.

5) Tetsu Yofu, SP, Charlotte. Pro: Pitched great over the last two months of the AAA season, and even threw a no-hitter. If he keeps it going next season and the Sox fail to shore up their rotation, he could get a callup. Con: Needs to prove the last two months were not just a hot streak.

6) Ryan Meaux, SP/RP, Birmingham. Started this year just to get more work; his future is as a situational lefty. Pro: Excellent control. If Cotts moves to the rotation a spot could open up for him. Con: Workload hurt his numbers this year. Not a youngster.

7) Dennis Ulacia/Heath Phillips/Jim Bullard, SP, Birmingham. I'm going to cheat and lump these guys together, because Birmingham had four lefty starters who threw 100+ innings. Meaux is probably closest to a (bullpen) job in Chicago, but one of the other guys could emerge from the pack. Pros: Ulacia was ranked highly several years ago, then had some terrible seasons, but seems to be back. Won his playoff start. Phillips threw the most innings (154) and won the most games (12). Bullard is 6'5". Cons: Still need that breakout season.

8) Normand Martel, OF, Birmingham. Pro: This guy flies under the radar, but has climbed the ladder steadily, and batted .301 with 25 walks and 10 HR in 279 at-bats. Bats left. Con: Just because he's been underestimated like Magglio, doesn't mean he's as good as Magglio.

9) Daniel Haigwood, SP, Kannapolis. Pro: A consistent lefty who wins without having overpowering stuff. Probably bound for Winston-Salem, but could make it to Birmingham by midseason. Slim chance of getting a tryout next September if Sox are out of the race. Con: Lots of lefties ahead of him.

10) Pedro Lopez, SS, Winston-Salem/Birmingham. Pro: Lots of tools. Has played 2B, but Sox moved Andy Gonzalez to 3B so Lopez could play short. Will continue to be pushed by Rob Valido. Con: Sox have to fix their infield before he (and Gonzalez and Valido) are ready.

Randar68
09-14-2004, 12:18 AM
10) Pedro Lopez, SS, Winston-Salem/Birmingham. Pro: Lots of tools. Has played 2B, but Sox moved Andy Gonzalez to 3B so Lopez could play short. Will continue to be pushed by Rob Valido. Con: Sox have to fix their infield before he (and Gonzalez and Valido) are ready.I'd probably have him higher on my "sleeper" list. The kid is just a sick fielder, very smooth, quick release and a pretty darn good (not great) arm.

Gonzalez has the arm and size for 3rd, but didn't have a very good year at the plate, too hesitant at the plate, and Fields is quickly coming at 3rd base.

Also,Haigwood and Ryan Rodriguez would be about even in my book. Both have some question marks, although I like Ryan's pure stuff better.

Chisoxfn
09-14-2004, 12:21 AM
true, but im just worried about traceys control. IIRC he walked and hit a LOT of batters this year. but yeah, he definately along with whisler is one to watch Keep an eye on Tracey, he's got a shot to really take off next year. He's starting to get on some peoples radars, but next year he'll be a fixture, imo. He has good stuff and a very live arm.

He's still a bit raw, didn't start pitching till JC, but he has what I would call a live, rubber arm. He throws a ton of pitches in between starts. Like Bmac, pitches inside. Still needs to work on his control though.

Also, Maurice, can't blame you on Honel/Wing I'm in the same boat. Right now I would rate Wing above Honel because Wing has had surgery and at least you can semi know what to expect out of him. I got no clue in regards to Honel and his dissapearing velocity.

Randar68
09-14-2004, 12:22 AM
how do you feel about whisler? i have read that he has great mechanics but havent heard too much about what he likes to throw.
I'm a big fan, although I questioned the pick on draft day. Lot's of projectible size, lefty, low-mileage arm.

His mechanics drift on him, but he throws four pitches and they all have very good movement. If he can be consistent mechanically and not walk himself into big innings, he's going to be a very good pitcher. High ceiling guy.

We'll know more next year. His K's were lower than his stuff would lead you to believe, he just needs to attack hitters better. He seemed to have a little 'Aluminum Bat shock', not wanting to throw the ball anywhere near the plate unless he has to.

Chisoxfn
09-14-2004, 12:23 AM
how do you feel about whisler? i have read that he has great mechanics but havent heard too much about what he likes to throw. You have to be impressed with what he's done in the minors, although I think the Sox have really rushed him by moving him to Winston Salem (although part of the reason is because WS was in the playoffs, imo).

However, I'm still waiting to see from him, you can see some raw ability and what not, but I think he's a big time work in project. He has a low mileage arm though and throws a ton of different pitches with movement. I don't have my notes in front of me, but he throws about 5 pitches (5th pitch is the splitter, which is new to his arsenal).

Randar68
09-14-2004, 12:26 AM
I don't have my notes in front of me, but he throws about 5 pitches.
He was working on that splitter, which would make 5 pitches, but he didn't use it in games yet from what I could tell in early August. He was really working on his slider in his pen session. Lisk couldn't catch it half the time.

Chisoxfn
09-14-2004, 12:27 AM
Haigwood/Rodriguez

You want to talk about sleepers, those two should be right there as should Micah Schnurstein. All three have a lot of ability. Haig got to 100% late in the season and I'd look for him to take some big steps forward over the offseason, same for Rodriguez.

As far as KW clearing the cuboard, he dealt a lot of AAA guys and it has long been my opinion over the past 1-2 years that Charlotte just didn't have any "special" prospects. Borchard had the chance, but had been on the decline for a while as a prospect.

Chisoxfn
09-14-2004, 12:28 AM
He was working on that splitter, which would make 5 pitches, but he didn't use it in games yet from what I could tell in early August. He was really working on his slider in his pen session. Lisk couldn't catch it half the time. That was the same when I saw Lisk working with the splitter. The pitching coach was telling him where to throw it and was telling Lisk where to put his glove so the ball could come down. You could tell Lisk still had a lot to learn behind the plate. But it seems like the organization as a whole is still a fan of him (from what I gathered from Kirk Champion).

Right now, I can't wait to see what some of the guys down in Kanny/WS can do with another year under their belt. I think they have some guys right on the cusp of breaking through.

Randar68
09-14-2004, 11:15 AM
You want to talk about sleepers, those two should be right there as should Micah Schnurstein. All three have a lot of ability. Haig got to 100% late in the season and I'd look for him to take some big steps forward over the offseason, same for Rodriguez.

Then, with about 3-4 weeks left in the season, Haigwood messed his hand up going after a ball back at him. I don't think he pitched the rest of the way, did he? He was going in for another X-Ray when I left town...

shagar69
09-14-2004, 12:25 PM
i dont know about you guys but IMO, i think that ruddy yan could be a sleeper too, since he has so much speed.

Wealz
09-14-2004, 01:51 PM
Spidale is a top 10 prospect.

shagar69
09-14-2004, 01:59 PM
Spidale is a top 10 prospect. are you kiddin me? spidale AT BEST will be a utility OF in the majors! he has NO POWER whatsoever! and if you put spidale in the top ten, you must have somebody with a way higher ceiling out of it. id like to know your top ten

Randar68
09-14-2004, 02:04 PM
are you kiddin me? spidale AT BEST will be a utility OF in the majors! he has NO POWER whatsoever! and if you put spidale in the top ten, you must have somebody with a way higher ceiling out of it. id like to know your top ten
Wealz has like a top 3 followed by 7 bitching points about KW, Shaffer, and drafting...

:dtroll:

Wealz
09-14-2004, 02:12 PM
are you kiddin me? spidale AT BEST will be a utility OF in the majors! he has NO POWER whatsoever! and if you put spidale in the top ten, you must have somebody with a way higher ceiling out of it. id like to know your top ten
Spidale is 22 and finished with a .391 OBP at Birmingham.

Wealz
09-14-2004, 02:15 PM
Wealz has like a top 3 followed by 7 bitching points about KW, Shaffer, and drafting...

:dtroll:
And you have an excuse ready for every failed prospect. I guess we balance one another out.

shagar69
09-14-2004, 02:43 PM
Wealz has like a top 3 followed by 7 bitching points about KW, Shaffer, and drafting...

:dtroll: randar id like to know your opinion on spidale. do you agree that he wont be much more than a utility OF

Randar68
09-14-2004, 02:49 PM
randar id like to know your opinion on spidale. do you agree that he wont be much more than a utility OF
To become any more than one, he has to make another jump similar to the one he made last year to this year. He had a decent # of extra base hits considering he isn't a HR hitter, and he has a below-average arm.

He's a decent, not-great, prospect. He's somewhere in the 8-15 range, IMO.

shagar69
09-14-2004, 02:52 PM
To become any more than one, he has to make another jump similar to the one he made last year to this year. He had a decent # of extra base hits considering he isn't a HR hitter, and he has a below-average arm.

He's a decent, not-great, prospect. He's somewhere in the 8-15 range, IMO. yeah i just dont understand how he could have ONLY 7 hrs even though hes got 27 doubles and 7 triples! his .432 SLG. is pretty solid

Wealz
09-14-2004, 02:55 PM
To become any more than one, he has to make another jump similar to the one he made last year to this year. He had a decent # of extra base hits considering he isn't a HR hitter, and he has a below-average arm.

He's a decent, not-great, prospect. He's somewhere in the 8-15 range, IMO.
If your track record is any indication I like his chances.

jeremyb1
09-14-2004, 02:55 PM
Pretty identical to what my list would look like. I'd drop Tracey though since he was a 23 year old in high A and was good but not unbelievable. I'd move Baj down and possibly off the list also just because he's a minor league reliever and didn't pitch a ton of innings as a result. Also, Spidale probably figures in about six on my list. Phillips probably rounds it off over Baj. Again though, not a particularly strong list especially towards the end.

Randar68
09-14-2004, 02:57 PM
If your track record is any indication I like his chances.
Yep. Whisler sucks. *****. I was also one of the first to talk about Buehrle.

To adapt a line from Daver:

"But hey, what the hell do you know?"



not much.

jeremyb1
09-14-2004, 02:57 PM
To become any more than one, he has to make another jump similar to the one he made last year to this year. He had a decent # of extra base hits considering he isn't a HR hitter, and he has a below-average arm.

He's a decent, not-great, prospect. He's somewhere in the 8-15 range, IMO.

He's young enough that he's got a solid chance to improve the power numbers. Also, I think you've got to love that plate discipline. Playing in a smaller park will help his power numbers and as long as his defense is good enough to stick at 2B, he doesn't need tons of power.

Randar68
09-14-2004, 02:58 PM
yeah i just dont understand how he could have ONLY 7 hrs even though hes got 27 doubles and 7 triples! his .432 SLG. is pretty solid
Well, Birmingham is one of the best pitchers' parks in all the minor leagues. His Slg% is decent, not what you'd be looking for in terms of a starting corner OF'er, but he's solid but unspectacular in CF a little lacking in the arm department.

Again, decent, not great, prospect.

Randar68
09-14-2004, 02:59 PM
He's young enough that he's got a solid chance to improve the power numbers. Also, I think you've got to love that plate discipline. Playing in a smaller park will help his power numbers and as long as his defense is good enough to stick at 2B, he doesn't need tons of power.
Huh? Spidale is a CF'er. Are you talking about Yan? Yan's got a LONG ways to go before he becomes someone worthy of top 10 consideration.

shagar69
09-14-2004, 03:03 PM
Huh? Spidale is a CF'er. Are you talking about Yan? Yan's got a LONG ways to go before he becomes someone worthy of top 10 consideration.actually he probably isnt talking about yan either. his K/BB was 82/31!

maurice
09-14-2004, 03:13 PM
1) Wilson Valdez . . . Almost certain to win a utility infielder's job next year
I concur. OTOH, he's unlikely to grow beyond that role. He can pick it and has some speed, but has no power and virually never walks. It's obvious why OG likes him.

2) Mike Spidale
IMHO, he'd have a better chance in a system with fewer OF prospects and relatively young MLB OFs. OTOH, if he continues to get on base, swipe some bags, and play good D, somebody will have to give him the chance to make a big league roster.

4) Ryan Hankins
I'm on record as saying that he has a real shot at being the Sox 25th man next season, if he doesn't start cold again.

10) Pedro Lopez . . . Andy Gonzalez . . . Rob Valido
It will be really nice if one of these fellows has a breakthrough season next year.

jeremyb1
09-14-2004, 03:16 PM
Huh? Spidale is a CF'er. Are you talking about Yan? Yan's got a LONG ways to go before he becomes someone worthy of top 10 consideration.

You're right. I was confusing him postitionally with Bryant but I was thinking of the right player. It's the same principle though, CF and 2B are both weak positions offensively. If he sticks and can play defense adequately, he's got value.

Daver
09-14-2004, 05:37 PM
One guy that is worth keeping an eye on, and I am NOT saying he would make anyones top ten list, just a player that has a lot of upside, is Micah Schnurstein.

maurice
09-14-2004, 06:53 PM
One guy that is worth keeping an eye on . . . is Micah Schnurstein.
I mentioned him at the end of my first post, along with a bunch of other A-ball and rookie-league guys.

It will be fun to watch some of them have breakout years in 2005.

A. Cavatica
09-14-2004, 07:14 PM
Yeah, I like Micah too, but I was stretching to find ten guys who have a chance of (at least) being September call-ups next year. Micah's 2-3 years away.

shagar69
09-14-2004, 08:09 PM
Yeah, I like Micah too, but I was stretching to find ten guys who have a chance of (at least) being September call-ups next year. Micah's 2-3 years away.i know its still early,but what would you project him as? a 3b or some other position

A. Cavatica
09-14-2004, 09:17 PM
I haven't seen him play, but I think he still projects as a 3B.

Daver
09-14-2004, 09:30 PM
I haven't seen him play, but I think he still projects as a 3B.
I've seen him.

He's a third baseman, not a gold glove contender, but he can play the position. He doesn't project the power you want out of that position, but he is a spray hitter that hits to all fields, and does have some gap power, to both left and right.

A. Cavatica
09-14-2004, 09:55 PM
Ventura and Crede weren't reputed to be great fielders in the minors, but they worked at it. I don't think Schnurstein will hit enough to play first or left, and I doubt he's quick enough to play middle infield or center...so as long as he can hold his own at third he'll probably stay there.

MRKARNO
09-14-2004, 10:52 PM
Who is the better third basemen defensively between Fields and Schnurstein?

And when are we ever going to get a C/SS/2B prospect that's decent and doenst just project to be a util IF? Is Valido still a reality that we just have to be patient on?

Daver
09-14-2004, 11:07 PM
Who is the better third basemen defensively between Fields and Schnurstein?

And when are we ever going to get a C/SS/2B prospect that's decent and doenst just project to be a util IF? Is Valido still a reality that we just have to be patient on?
Fields has more upside in range, Schnurstein is a decent fielder, that hits well but lacks plate discipline, I have not seen enough on Fields to judge what he hits, Randar may have more info on that.

Valido is the real deal, as far as patience goes, he was drafted out of HS, what pace do you want him to live up to? He is a slick fielder that has shown to have a decent bat at the lower levels, but I doubt he is the second coming of Alex Rodriguez.

Chisoxfn
09-15-2004, 12:53 AM
I've seen him.

He's a third baseman, not a gold glove contender, but he can play the position. He doesn't project the power you want out of that position, but he is a spray hitter that hits to all fields, and does have some gap power, to both left and right. He's got very good gap power right now and should develop more "homer" power as he continues to fill out. Plus, the ball just dies in Kanny. Love his approach at the plate though, uses all parts of the field. Still pretty raw at the hot corner, imo.

Chisoxfn
09-15-2004, 12:55 AM
Who is the better third basemen defensively between Fields and Schnurstein?

And when are we ever going to get a C/SS/2B prospect that's decent and doenst just project to be a util IF? Is Valido still a reality that we just have to be patient on? I'd probably say neither at this point. Both have a lot to work on and I don't want to throw around great defensive player at this point with either of them. Schnur is a converted shortstop if I recall, so he's still learning footwork although from talking with him he's a lot more confident now. Not too great of range, but he is pretty smooth over there.

Fields makes errors and what not, but has a good, accurate arm. Both have the potential and Fields has more range. Both need to work on their footwork and what not.

As far as defense goes, Andy Gonzalez, Pedro Lopez, and Robert Valido all can make some fantastic plays. They got to work on consistency, but damn can they make plays.

OurBitchinMinny
09-15-2004, 01:00 AM
Who is the better third basemen defensively between Fields and Schnurstein?

And when are we ever going to get a C/SS/2B prospect that's decent and doenst just project to be a util IF? Is Valido still a reality that we just have to be patient on?
not sure but fields is a better pocket passer:tongue:

Rex Hudler
09-15-2004, 02:38 AM
A long time Major League scout told me that he has rated both Valido and Lopez and big league SS. He thinks Andy Gonzalez can be but is more raw. He said not many organizations that he has seen have as many high quality SS.

Fungo
09-15-2004, 10:36 AM
A long time Major League scout told me that he has rated both Valido and Lopez and big league SS. He thinks Andy Gonzalez can be but is more raw. He said not many organizations that he has seen have as many high quality SS.That is definitely encouraging to hear. As I've mentioned many times before, Baseball America is not the end-all, be-all of baseball information, but their recent list of SS Prospect didn't include any White Sox. I know their list mainly focus on AA and AAA prospects as well. I'm a Valido fan myself.

Here is their list...
1. Joel Guzman, Dodgers
2. Hanley Ramirez, Red Sox

3. J.J. Hardy, Brewers

4. Erick Aybar, Angels

5. Tony Giarratano, Tigers

6. Sergio Santos, Diamondbacks

7. Joaquin Arias, Rangers

8. Jason Bartlett, Twins

9. Alberto Callaspo, Angels

10. Ian Kinsler, Rangers

OTHERS TO CONSIDER

Russ Adams, Blue Jays
Robert Andino, Marlins
Andres Blanco, Royals
Aaron Hill, Blue Jays
Chin-Lung Hu, Dodgers
Adam Jones, Mariners
Mike Morse, Mariners
Omar Quintanilla, Athletics
Josh Wilson, Marlins
Brandon Wood, Angels

Randar68
09-15-2004, 10:59 AM
That is definitely encouraging to hear. As I've mentioned many times before, Baseball America is not the end-all, be-all of baseball information, but their recent list of SS Prospect didn't include any White Sox. I know their list mainly focus on AA and AAA prospects as well. I'm a Valido fan myself.

All those Sox prospects are very young/raw and none of them, while all slick fielders (although varying in consistency), none of them has hit with numbers that would really warrant recognition *YET*

Valido is the real deal. He and Lopez are really good friends, and both will be pushing eachother as they move up. Valido made his All-Star team this year and had a rough second half, but it's his first full-season of baseball. It's a tough game mentally to go that long, especialy when you haven't experienced it before.

Randar68
09-15-2004, 11:04 AM
Fields has more upside in range, Schnurstein is a decent fielder, that hits well but lacks plate discipline, I have not seen enough on Fields to judge what he hits, Randar may have more info on that.
Fields is a slick fielder at times, but the infields in the lower levels eat 3rd basemen for lunch. I saw him almost catch a couple in the chin in one game. Same game I saw him make a bare-handed play and a strong throw, as well as a diving stab on a sharp liner in the hole...

He moves well, but he does need more experience and consistency. My one concern is with his throwing motion. He still throws like he's throwing a football, and it can be a little slow at times getting the ball out of his hand.

Fields is a hard-swinger. He definitely needs to work on pitch selection, but he has a lot of raw power. The transition to wood bats for him was harder than for most, as he never got the chance to play summer leagues and such to get used to them... Unless he makes a dramatic improvement in plate discipline, I don't ever see him as being a .380+ OBP guy, but he has 30+ HR potential and could be a near .300 hitter IMO. Konerko with more speed?

Fungo
09-15-2004, 02:03 PM
Bajenaru & Tracey get some ink at BA's website on their list of 12 breakout players.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/040915pulse.html


ē Jeff Bajenaru, rhp, White Sox. Left off the 40-man roster after recovering from Tommy John surgery in 2002, Bajenaru has regained his heavy sinking fastball in the low 90s and good splitter. The former Oklahoma All-American struck out 67 in just 54 minor league innings and posted a 1.51 ERA to earn a call to Chicago. He gave up a game-winning hit to Ichiro Suzuki in his first big league game, though.
ē Sean Tracey, rhp, White Sox. With Brady Anderson retired, Tracey carries the banner for UC Irvine, and his end-of-season performance in the Carolina League bodes well for his chances of replacing Anderson as the Anteaters' big league alumnus. Though he has a funky arm action and a mechanical delivery, Tracey repeats them well enough to show average command of three major league pitches. His fastball has touched 96 mph and sits at 92-93 with good life, and his 84-86 mph slider and sinking changeup also earn above-average grades from scouts. He finished second in the CL in ERA and strikeouts.

shagar69
09-15-2004, 02:14 PM
Bajenaru & Tracey get some ink at BA's website on their list of 12 breakout players.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/040915pulse.html yeah tracey is definitley one to keep an eye on. but he hit 23 guys this year! thats almost one a start. so he does have some control problems to figure out

A. Cavatica
09-15-2004, 08:57 PM
yeah tracey is definitley one to keep an eye on. but he hit 23 guys this year! thats almost one a start. so he does have some control problems to figure out
Call him up to face Minnesota!

MRKARNO
09-15-2004, 09:45 PM
A long time Major League scout told me that he has rated both Valido and Lopez and big league SS. He thinks Andy Gonzalez can be but is more raw. He said not many organizations that he has seen have as many high quality SS.
This is very good to hear. I would like to start seeing more from Valido and Lopez's bats pretty soon though. Andy Gonzalez has a pretty good eye it seems with 49 BBs and only 53 Ks for a .365 OBP. Looks like Gonzalez can play some 3B and 2B as well, so that's always a plus.