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View Full Version : Sox Thinking About Gload at 1B Next Year


JRIG
09-13-2004, 06:56 AM
In other news, the Sox are thinking about losing 90 games next year...

Padilla column in Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug13.html)

Also in that column, the team is thinking about moving Rowand to right field and going after a center fielder. The Sox would then trade Konerko for offense.

SEALgep
09-13-2004, 07:20 AM
Sounds logical to me.

fquaye149
09-13-2004, 07:42 AM
sell paulie high and get a real CF is not a horrible idea.

balke
09-13-2004, 08:01 AM
There was talk of Andruw Jones to White Sox most of the season. Anyone think that's the CF they'd go after?

Trading Konerko for offense? hmm. Wish we could get some pitching first. But we do need a SS and/or 3B.

Cubbiesuck13
09-13-2004, 08:10 AM
I like Konerko very much and I think he will continue to put up top ten numbers wherever he plays. I also like Gload at first. If Frank wasn't coming back then I would say DH Pauly and go with Gload at first. The Oz has been pumping up Gload since ST and I think that is who he is going with. As far as Rowand swithing from CF to RF, I think that if they TRY to force the issue then they are dumb. He is good at either and hopefully the will trade for the best all around player weather it be a CF or a RF. Their options will be limited if they just look for a CF. Konerko, Alomar, Jose need to be replaced. Add Mags to that since he sin't returning and you have yourself a busy offseason. Good luck Kenny.

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-13-2004, 08:26 AM
I like Konerko very much and I think he will continue to put up top ten numbers wherever he plays. I also like Gload at first. If Frank wasn't coming back then I would say DH Pauly and go with Gload at first. The Oz has been pumping up Gload since ST and I think that is who he is going with. As far as Rowand swithing from CF to RF, I think that if they TRY to force the issue then they are dumb. He is good at either and hopefully the will trade for the best all around player weather it be a CF or a RF. Their options will be limited if they just look for a CF. Konerko, Alomar, Jose need to be replaced. Add Mags to that since he sin't returning and you have yourself a busy offseason. Good luck Kenny.

yup

SOXSINCE'70
09-13-2004, 08:36 AM
sell paulie high and get a real CF is not a horrible idea.As Harry Caray once asked Tom Trebelhorn:

"WHAT ABOUT THE PITCHING?????" :angry: :angry:

JoseCanseco6969
09-13-2004, 08:37 AM
[QUOTE=Cubbiesuck13] Konerko, Alomar, Jose need to be replaced. QUOTE]

lumping Konerko with those two bums is just insane!!! I dont get why losing Maggs is so horrible to people but Konerko can be dumped with guys you couldnt get a bag of balls for. Theres no way we'd be over 500 without Paulie in the lineup this season. We will be VERY sorry if we trade Konerko and replace him with ross gload, ross freaking gload! the same gload that so many of you wanted off the team earlier on. KW better get another allstar in return because losing 2/3rds of the teams superstars in one offseason will kill the team PR wise and on the field. Looks like a gloomy few years for us. I can deal with Maggs going after the injury, but losing Paulie will guarantee me not going to my 30+ games next season. I'm sure people will disagree since there are plenty who still hate paulie for last season. Blast away fellas.

balke
09-13-2004, 08:53 AM
[QUOTE=Cubbiesuck13] Konerko, Alomar, Jose need to be replaced. QUOTE]

lumping Konerko with those two bums is just insane!!! I dont get why losing Maggs is so horrible to people but Konerko can be dumped with guys you couldnt get a bag of balls for. Theres no way we'd be over 500 without Paulie in the lineup this season. We will be VERY sorry if we trade Konerko and replace him with ross gload, ross freaking gload! the same gload that so many of you wanted off the team earlier on. KW better get another allstar in return because losing 2/3rds of the teams superstars in one offseason will kill the team PR wise and on the field. Looks like a gloomy few years for us. I can deal with Maggs going after the injury, but losing Paulie will guarantee me not going to my 30+ games next season. I'm sure people will disagree since there are plenty who still hate paulie for last season. Blast away fellas.
I don't hate paulie. I think he's valuable, 28, and running on catchers legs. I agree he's one of 3 reasons the sox are still in 2nd (Clee Rowand), and posting a winning season. But we do theoretically have FT coming back, and we did have an insane amount of solo HR's this year. This team needs to change it's make-up a bit, and Paulie is a good starting piece. With Maggs theoretically going, maybe it's true the sox are going after a good CF, someone who can post similar #'s with paulie, and someone who has better speed. That would help OUR team out. Gload might bust next season, but you know he has better speed then PK, hits lefties, and has posted great #'s this season. He also plays better D at 1st. If we go with pitching, this team is going to need more D, and more speed.

eriqjaffe
09-13-2004, 09:02 AM
As Harry Caray once asked Tom Trebelhorn:

"WHAT ABOUT THE PITCHING?????" :angry: :angry:
Yeah, the last sentence in the linked article confirms that:

The Sox are also 7-44 when scoring three runs or less.
Ouch.

stl_sox_fan
09-13-2004, 09:18 AM
My main isse with Gload at first is his height. With him we get a shorter first baseman by two inches. Have any of you seen some of the throws from the left side of the infield? Uribe and Valentin have anything but controlled arms. Konerko has a .995 fielding percentage this season(7th among AL 1st basemen).
Plus Gload isn't anywhere near the power hitter Konerko is.

nodiggity59
09-13-2004, 09:22 AM
What about Everret? I hope the Sox deal him but anyways what's he gonna do if Rowand plays right and we get a CF?

stl_sox_fan
09-13-2004, 09:25 AM
What about Everret? I hope the Sox deal him but anyways what's he gonna do if Rowand plays right and we get a CF? Hopefully we will be saying goodbye to Everett and Robby Alomar....again!!!

JRIG
09-13-2004, 09:30 AM
Hopefully we will be saying goodbye to Everett and Robby Alomar....again!!!
Can't say bye to Everett. He's got a $4 million player option. We're stuck with him unless he declines, which is highly unlikely.

DrCrawdad
09-13-2004, 09:53 AM
Can't say bye to Everett. He's got a $4 million player option. We're stuck with him unless he declines, which is highly unlikely.

Consider the position the Sox would be in now if they had NOT EVER traded for Everett. The Sox could have simply called up Gload last year instead of trading for Everett. IMHO the Sox would have been better off for it. The Sox would have a good reliever in Francisco. And perhaps they could have used the other 50 players they've given up for Carl for a useful player. Now we're stuck with fat, injury prone Carl.
Great!

soxfan26
09-13-2004, 09:54 AM
''I want to be in the big leagues, but I don't know if I can play every day. My goal for this year was to be here the whole year and enjoy it."
Good thing Gload is confident in his own abilities.

kittle42
09-13-2004, 10:07 AM
If Ross Gload is an everyday player on this team at the start of next year...well, let's just say I'll need a new hobby.

Hangar18
09-13-2004, 10:18 AM
do i want Ross Gload as a regular 1B. Now I dont mind him off the bench .......
but this is EXACTLY THE KIND OF THINKING (or Cycle of Foolishness if you will)
that Keeps the SOX from ever winning anything. They put a few schmucks
out in the field ......they do well in September, and the team FINDS AN EXCUSE TO GET RID OF PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING $$$$$$. No wonder we havnt been to a World Series since 1959

Railsplitter
09-13-2004, 10:20 AM
Why is Frank Thomas never mentioned when it comes to getting rid of somebody? At least Knoerko can use the glove. The Sox aren't lacking for power, but they need speed guys who can run out grounders and set the table for the big guns.

Hangar18
09-13-2004, 10:29 AM
Why is Frank Thomas never mentioned when it comes to getting rid of somebody? At least Knoerko can use the glove. The Sox aren't lacking for power, but they need speed guys who can run out grounders and set the table for the big guns.
Or better yet, INSTEAD of WEAKENING the Power part of our game by TRYING TO GET SPEED, why dont we just go out and AQUIRE/SIGN guys like this?
Its a really Simple Concept ....... I hate the way this team thinks .........

SoxxoS
09-13-2004, 10:34 AM
DON'T WORRY GUYS. We can just rely on our minor leagues to give us some talent. Look how well it has worked this year...Borchard, Valdez, Grilli, Munoz, Diaz, Rauch...have no fear.

Brian26
09-13-2004, 10:52 AM
I'm baffled by the line "let's trade Konerko for some offense." Huh?
He's our biggest run producer right now, and he's 2nd in the league in homers. I don't know what they expect to get back for him, but I don't like the rationale behind it.

SoxFan76
09-13-2004, 10:54 AM
If Gload was say, a 3B or 2B I wouldn't care. We all know he is a great defensive 1st basemen, but lets face it, 1B is an offensive position. That's why I never jump on the Crede-hating bandwagon, because I consider 3B a defensive position. Maybe not as much as catcher, but still a defensive position.

kittle42
09-13-2004, 11:00 AM
I hate this team.

Cubbiesuck13
09-13-2004, 11:01 AM
[QUOTE=Cubbiesuck13] Konerko, Alomar, Jose need to be replaced. QUOTE]

lumping Konerko with those two bums is just insane!!! I dont get why losing Maggs is so horrible to people but Konerko can be dumped with guys you couldnt get a bag of balls for. Theres no way we'd be over 500 without Paulie in the lineup this season. We will be VERY sorry if we trade Konerko and replace him with ross gload, ross freaking gload! the same gload that so many of you wanted off the team earlier on. KW better get another allstar in return because losing 2/3rds of the teams superstars in one offseason will kill the team PR wise and on the field. Looks like a gloomy few years for us. I can deal with Maggs going after the injury, but losing Paulie will guarantee me not going to my 30+ games next season. I'm sure people will disagree since there are plenty who still hate paulie for last season. Blast away fellas.
I never said those players were worth the same amount. But they do need to go. Konerko isn't the Oz's type of player. Read the whole post. It is pretty clear I like the guy and think he is a heck of a player.

SoxFan76
09-13-2004, 11:02 AM
I hate this team.
:D: I know it's hard sometimes. (I feel so hyprocritical saying this, I'm 18 years old for crying out loud) Just think, the Sox will win a WS in our lifetime, and when that day comes, it will be magical.

JoseCanseco6969
09-13-2004, 11:08 AM
Or better yet, INSTEAD of WEAKENING the Power part of our game by TRYING TO GET SPEED, why dont we just go out and AQUIRE/SIGN guys like this?
Its a really Simple Concept ....... I hate the way this team thinks .........
I agree, aquire someone in FREE agency instead of trading one of our top run producers. We will suffer greatly if Paulie or Carlos is traded. NO GLOAD!!!!!!!!!!!! KW it's your move

JoseCanseco6969
09-13-2004, 11:11 AM
I never said those players were worth the same amount. But they do need to go. Konerko isn't the Oz's type of player. Read the whole post. It is pretty clear I like the guy and think he is a heck of a player.
Who gives a damn if hes not an Oz player! if you like him so much as you claim then WHY DUMP HIM when we could get OZ type talent in FA?????

mdep524
09-13-2004, 11:52 AM
OK guys, let's all take some pills and calm down. First of all, this is just Doug Padilla speculating, and Ozzie talking out of his ass, which in the end means about as much as a Joe Borchard at-bat: nothing. Padilla has to come up with SOMETHING for those Sox columns everyday- God knows it must be really hard when the team is losing 11-0 and is 10 games out of first place.

Secondly, even if it was a serious option (which I don't think it is at this point), it is just a scenario to consider. And keeping in mind how awful this team is and how many changes will need to be made overall, I don't think we should automatically discount or ignore any scenario at the beginning. I hope KW and Ozzie come up with lots of ideas, and then implement the best of the bunch.

Lastly, I am so sick of hearing people get all incredulous about "dumping Konerko." He is not going to be "dumped"!!! You do not "dump" a player who is third in the AL in HRs and has over 100 RBIs. IF the Sox choose to trade Paulie, with the intention of re-distributing their assets or balancing their talent, they should get quite a bit in return for the trade. We're not talking about a Ray Durham-for-Jon Adkins dump here, we're talking about a serious talent-for-talent trade, which could be very exciting and beneficial to the White Sox.

Cubbiesuck13
09-13-2004, 11:55 AM
Who gives a damn if hes not an Oz player! if you like him so much as you claim then WHY DUMP HIM when we could get OZ type talent in FA?????
The win/loss column cares if he is the Oz's type player. Have you noticed the lack of Ozzie ball when it counts?

Because he makes many more dollars than Konerko. Changes need to be made, get over it. I like all the guys on the team and I really hate to see some of them go but I want a playoff series many more than I want Konerko to stay. The core can't get it done. It is simple as that.

Paulwny
09-13-2004, 12:00 PM
:D: I know it's hard sometimes. (I feel so hyprocritical saying this, I'm 18 years old for crying out loud) Just think, the Sox will win a WS in our lifetime, and when that day comes, it will be magical.Don't bet on it. I was a teenager in 59. I'm still waiting for a ws winner. :angry:

jeremyb1
09-13-2004, 12:20 PM
I always said I thought Ozzie could be a capable manager. Giving him any kind of serious input into personel issues is clearly one of the stupidist things you can do and that always should've been aparent. His strengths lie in motivating players not being an intelligent baseball man. Sure Gload was blocked by Konerko and Grace to start, but who was blocking him from being the backup first basemen? Most sickening is to see that this decision is based on the notion of situational hitting. Let's get a team full of above average hitters who can hit situationally, we'll be in first place in no time. Do people really think there is no correlation between batting average, on base percentage, slugging percentage, and runs scored?

As far as Rowand in RF, I dislike the idea unless we get someone like Jones who is a vastly superior defensive CF and also a very good hitter. The stats suggest Rowand is already a game better than your average center fielder over the course of a season which is quite good. He'd lose a ton of value putting up the same stats at an offensive position that is much stronger and there's a decent chance the guy we'd put in CF wouldn't even be a better defensive player.

bigfoot
09-13-2004, 12:32 PM
I always said I thought Ozzie could be a capable manager. Giving him any kind of serious input into personel issues is clearly one of the stupidist things you can do and that always should've been aparent. His strengths lie in motivating players not being an intelligent baseball man. Sure Gload was blocked by Konerko and Grace to start, but who was blocking him from being the backup first basemen? Most sickening is to see that this decision is based on the notion of situational hitting. Let's get a team full of above average hitters who can hit situationally, we'll be in first place in no time. Do people really think there is no correlation between batting average, on base percentage, slugging percentage, and runs scored?

As far as Rowand in RF, I dislike the idea unless we get someone like Jones who is a vastly superior defensive CF and also a very good hitter. The stats suggest Rowand is already a game better than your average center fielder over the course of a season which is quite good. He'd lose a ton of value putting up the same stats at an offensive position that is much stronger and there's a decent chance the guy we'd put in CF wouldn't even be a better defensive player.
Isn't the trouble with situational hitting is that many times 3 players have to be able to gets hits/ob w/in three outs, before a single run is scored? That's the beauty of the HR. It's not an illusion that the better teams in MLB have the most HRs. The best have pitching to go with.

gosox41
09-13-2004, 12:38 PM
Why is Frank Thomas never mentioned when it comes to getting rid of somebody? At least Knoerko can use the glove. The Sox aren't lacking for power, but they need speed guys who can run out grounders and set the table for the big guns.
Konerko can use the glove?? For what?

I'm sick of Frank bashing. He is so much better then PK.



Bob

maurice
09-13-2004, 12:51 PM
Initially, I though that Konerko would be back for certain. Now, I'm not so sure. Given JR's artificial salary restrictions, there's a good chance that KW is eyeing the "cap space" a Konerko trade would bring. In addition:
- there have been a handfull of recent comments alluding to a possible trade
- KW already tried to trade Konerko for pitching (e.g., Perez and Mota) this past offseason
- Konerko's trade value is much higher now (buy low; sell high)
- OG wants more team speed (bad news for Konerko and Crede)
- KW wants to change the team's emphasis from power to pitching (he'll need "cap space" to get those two veteran pitchers he promised)
In light of all this, I now think there's a very good chance that KW again will try to trade Konerko for pitching (not offense).

On a related note, if they follow through and ditch the power game for pitching and D, they need to increase the dimensions of the Cell significantly.

Wealz
09-13-2004, 12:58 PM
Konerko's year has been seriously inflated by U.S. Cellular Field. Deal him while you can and use the savings for the core. Because as PHG said in another post our core sucks.

mdep524
09-13-2004, 01:31 PM
Konerko's year has been seriously inflated by U.S. Cellular Field. Deal him while you can and use the savings for the core. Because as PHG said in another post our core sucks.
Just to back up your point Wealz, Konerko is hitting .310 with 25 HRs at home this season, and .243 with 11 HRs on the road.

Also, further proof that Paulie can only put together one half of a good season, he is batting .248 since the All Star Break (vs. .296 before).

E Coast Sox Fan
09-13-2004, 01:32 PM
Given the way the article is written, there's only one scenario that works for Gload (who I like), but I don't see how it improves the team unless Kenny is going to upgrade the starting rotation through free agency or a trade. Based on the article it seems there are three scenarios I read into the situation -

1) PK is traded, Mags doesn't resign, Rowand is moved to RF and we get a new CF. In this case wouldn't Big Frank start at 1st and Crazy Carl becomes our DH? That seems like a much stronger line-up than one with Gload in it.

2) PK is traded, Mags is resigned and we try to upgrade at SS. In which case, Big Frank starts at first, Crazy Carl becomes our DH, and Rowand stays put.

3) PK is traded, Mags doesn't resign, we don't get a new CF, but a new SS. In which case Rowand would play CF, Everett plays RF (but it could be reversed), Big Frank remains the DH and Gload plays first. In this case, we have some extra money, so we have some money to buy the services of a free agent starting pitcher?

soxtalker
09-13-2004, 01:40 PM
....
Lastly, I am so sick of hearing people get all incredulous about "dumping Konerko." He is not going to be "dumped"!!! You do not "dump" a player who is third in the AL in HRs and has over 100 RBIs. IF the Sox choose to trade Paulie, with the intention of re-distributing their assets or balancing their talent, they should get quite a bit in return for the trade. We're not talking about a Ray Durham-for-Jon Adkins dump here, we're talking about a serious talent-for-talent trade, which could be very exciting and beneficial to the White Sox.
I agree with your analysis. Now, I'm trying to remember if there is a similar trade that we've made in the past few years. KW has made a lot of trades, but I can't quite recall one that is in the category of trading away a very good player at the top of his game. If I go back in Sox history, the one that comes to mind is Lamar Hoyt for Ozzie.

shagar69
09-13-2004, 01:41 PM
i dont think that KW should even think about this! gload is a PERFECT bench player! i do think that we should trade PK for some SP. we should then maybe try frank at first and put borchard at DH. dont know if frank can handle it though

Jerome
09-13-2004, 03:13 PM
sell paulie high and get a real CF is not a horrible idea.



What constitutes a "real" CF?

OEO Magglio
09-13-2004, 03:14 PM
This is a great idea. Gload would be a great replacement for konerko. Gload is a better defender, better baserunner, and a better clutch hitter then konerko, he's not a better overrall hitter but he's definitely more clutch, imo. Trading konerko for a leadoff hitter and having gload start at 1b would be a great idea, it would be setting this team into the direction it needs to go.

RKMeibalane
09-13-2004, 03:23 PM
Why is Frank Thomas never mentioned when it comes to getting rid of somebody? At least Knoerko can use the glove. The Sox aren't lacking for power, but they need speed guys who can run out grounders and set the table for the big guns.
Three reasons:

1. Frank Thomas is still this team's most productive offensive player.

2. Along with that, Frank is the only player on the team who understands the strike zone. Everyone else goes up there with the attitude of trying to hit the ball into orbit.

3. Frank Thomas is a 10-5 player, and he has the right to veto any trade.

I've said this before, but I feel compelled to say it again. Frank is not the problem on the Chicago White Sox. On the contrary, Frank is the one of the few members of this team that I can find little or no fault with as far as the past few seasons have gone. Even during 2002, Frank was still productive despite battling back from the tricep injury. If people want to get rid of Frank, that's fine. However, that means that every other memeber of the team should be moved, as well, because Frank is not the reason for this team's continued floundering in mediocrety. The reason for the Sox continual failures lies somewhere higher in the chain of command.

:reinsy

"Why are you looking at me?"

balke
09-13-2004, 03:23 PM
This is a great idea. Gload would be a great replacement for konerko. Gload is a better defender, better baserunner, and a better clutch hitter then konerko, he's not a better overrall hitter but he's definitely more clutch, imo. Trading konerko for a leadoff hitter and having gload start at 1b would be a great idea, it would be setting this team into the direction it needs to go.

Agreed. He's looking good. I doubt we will be stranded without a decent replacement in either CF or short. Those would be better positions to help the team overall. The only drawback would be that 1B is a great place for a hitter, since there is less chance of injury IMO. Regardless, the Sox need help in other areas, Gload looks like he can pull his wieght at first. he's hitting .526 against lefties, .276 against righties in more AB. He's got a decent amount of 2B for seeing just 170 AB (10). I think this is about the only position of depth the sox have.

kittle42
09-13-2004, 03:28 PM
he's not a better overrall hitter but he's definitely more clutch, imo.
:manos
"That's what they say about me, too."

balke
09-13-2004, 03:29 PM
Three reasons:

1. Frank Thomas is still this team's most productive offensive player.

2. Along with that, Frank is the only player on the team who understands the strike zone. Everyone else goes up there with the attitude of trying to hit the ball into orbit.

3. Frank Thomas is a 10-5 player, and he has the right to veto any trade.

I've said this before, but I feel compelled to say it again. Frank is not the problem on the Chicago White Sox. On the contrary, Frank is the one of the few members of this team that I can find little or no fault with as far as the past few seasons have gone. Even during 2002, Frank was still productive despite battling back from the tricep injury. If people want to get rid of Frank, that's fine. However, that means that every other memeber of the team should be moved, as well, because Frank is not the reason for this team's continued floundering in mediocrety. The reason for the Sox continual failures lies somewhere higher in the chain of command.

:reinsy

"Why are you looking at me?"

PK can't hold FT's jock. noone on this team can. Even if he's getting old, he's still got the best eye in the game. EYES. He knows the strike zone better than or just as well as anyone in the game.

I would argue Barry B. has the best swing, and a great eye. And Frank has THE best eye. Rickey Hendersons right there with them. IF this team deals Frank, they will be trading away one of the best highlights in their history. Rest assured if he goes anywhere else, he gets 500, and prolly goes HOF in another teams jersey.

OEO Magglio
09-13-2004, 03:32 PM
:manos
"That's what they say about me, too."True, but gload is hitting over .300 and jose is barely hitting over .200, I'm not saying gload is going to hit over .300 if he was an everday player but around .280 I could definitely see, good range at first, not a baseclogger, gload is a good player and he's a good overall hitter and takes what the pitchers give him, he's not only looking to hit homeruns like Manos.

DVsoxfan
09-13-2004, 03:32 PM
This is a great idea. Gload would be a great replacement for konerko. Gload is a better defender, better baserunner, and a better clutch hitter then konerko, he's not a better overrall hitter but he's definitely more clutch, imo. Trading konerko for a leadoff hitter and having gload start at 1b would be a great idea, it would be setting this team into the direction it needs to go.
I agree w/ you 100%. I like Gload, he's played a lot of bad outfield this year and I think thats part of the reason why youre all down on him. He's an excellent 1st basemen, and provides a dangerous lefty bat. It will be interesting to see how things play out this offseason, but I strongly believe we will be a better team next year.

kittle42
09-13-2004, 03:49 PM
It will be interesting to see how things play out this offseason, but I strongly believe we will be a better team next year.
:reinsy
"Fooled another one."

mrzerofan
09-13-2004, 03:57 PM
i dont think that KW should even think about this! gload is a PERFECT bench player! i do think that we should trade PK for some SP. we should then maybe try frank at first and put borchard at DH. dont know if frank can handle it though
What has borchard shown you? That he can hit a ball 500 feet and strike out the next 3 times?

DickAllen72
09-13-2004, 04:00 PM
As Harry Caray once asked Tom Trebelhorn:

"WHAT ABOUT THE PITCHING?????" :angry: :angry:

Carl Pavano.

Hangar18
09-13-2004, 04:17 PM
Changes need to be made, get over it. I like all the guys on the team and I really hate to see some of them go but I want a playoff series many more than I want Konerko to stay. The core can't get it done. It is simple as that.
The Core cant get it done because the Stupid Owner DIDNT SIGN/KEEP the Surrounding Cast to Compliment the Core because he wanted to Cut Payroll.
He got rid of the Higher Priced Hi-Level Talen and replaced with Cheaper Priced Mediocre Talent.
This past offseason, he Blamed the "Fans". This year, hes going to Blame "the core". Just another excuse to Cut Payroll. Its as simple as that.

kittle42
09-13-2004, 04:23 PM
The Core cant get it done because the Stupid Owner DIDNT SIGN/KEEP the Surrounding Cast to Compliment the Core because he wanted to Cut Payroll.
He got rid of the Higher Priced Hi-Level Talen and replaced with Cheaper Priced Mediocre Talent.
This past offseason, he Blamed the "Fans". This year, hes going to Blame "the core". Just another excuse to Cut Payroll. Its as simple as that.
Bingo, and mark my words now - anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain silly.

Also, come April, I am smacking the first person I hear praising our move of Ross Gload from important bench player to overmatched everyday first sacker.

Hangar18
09-13-2004, 04:28 PM
Bingo, and mark my words now - anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain silly.

Also, come April, I am smacking the first person I hear praising our move of Ross Gload from important bench player to overmatched everyday first sacker.
Chris my man ............ im buying you a brewski tonite ........ if your in the mood
to drink and toast this trainwreck of a season

Flight #24
09-13-2004, 04:32 PM
Given the way the article is written, there's only one scenario that works for Gload (who I like), but I don't see how it improves the team unless Kenny is going to upgrade the starting rotation through free agency or a trade. Based on the article it seems there are three scenarios I read into the situation -

1) PK is traded, Mags doesn't resign, Rowand is moved to RF and we get a new CF. In this case wouldn't Big Frank start at 1st and Crazy Carl becomes our DH? That seems like a much stronger line-up than one with Gload in it.

2) PK is traded, Mags is resigned and we try to upgrade at SS. In which case, Big Frank starts at first, Crazy Carl becomes our DH, and Rowand stays put.

3) PK is traded, Mags doesn't resign, we don't get a new CF, but a new SS. In which case Rowand would play CF, Everett plays RF (but it could be reversed), Big Frank remains the DH and Gload plays first. In this case, we have some extra money, so we have some money to buy the services of a free agent starting pitcher?
I cannot believe that any plan that includes Frank being a fulltime or near fulltime 1B has any hope of success. Recurring ankle problems+.280lbs = DL. If you like seeing Frank in the lineup, you'd better have him DH most of the time. If you like seeing him on the DL (in which case you must be loving this season), then go ahead and play him at first. It'll last 1-2 months tops.

Wealz
09-13-2004, 04:34 PM
The Core cant get it done because the Stupid Owner DIDNT SIGN/KEEP the Surrounding Cast to Compliment the Core because he wanted to Cut Payroll.
He got rid of the Higher Priced Hi-Level Talen and replaced with Cheaper Priced Mediocre Talent.
This past offseason, he Blamed the "Fans". This year, hes going to Blame "the core". Just another excuse to Cut Payroll. Its as simple as that.
Whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that as of today, the 2005 core will not be anything close to championship caliber. Kenny Williams inherited a pretty good nucleus in 2001 and did nothing with it. Given that, hard to believe he's capable of fixing this mess.

Wealz
09-13-2004, 04:37 PM
Bingo, and mark my words now - anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain silly.

Also, come April, I am smacking the first person I hear praising our move of Ross Gload from important bench player to overmatched everyday first sacker.
I don't care who plays first in 2005 as long as it isn't Konerko. It's time to start rebuilding.

Hangar18
09-13-2004, 04:46 PM
I don't care who plays first in 2005 as long as it isn't Konerko. It's time to start rebuilding.

:reinsy

"Yeah, the guys right!! You guys are crazy if you think this team can catch the Twinks. I say we get of rid of the money sucking....er...I mean the High Priced Prima Donnas, and put a Cheap, er....I mean put a Young, Hungry Team that HUSTLES!! thats what you guys want to see right ? hey, are you gonna eat that sausage? "

Hangar18
09-13-2004, 04:50 PM
Kenny Williams inherited a pretty good nucleus in 2001 and did nothing with it. Given that, hard to believe he's capable of fixing this mess.Yes, that was a Dang Great Nucleus. There were a few questions (serious ones) about the Health of the pitching staff, and bullpen and bench, Nothing a little shopping spree couldve Fixed. INSTEAD, they Saved Money and DIDNT fix any of the holes in the team. We went nowhere in 2001. they Cared MORE ABOUT DUMPING SALARY, namely Keith Foulke and Ray Durham. hell, we Gave Away Durham and all we got was Jon Adkins? Are you kidding me? the Cubs got Way More from Bobby Hill and thats all KW could get for Durham? (sometimes best trades are ones you DONT make)
Ray Durham - Jon Adkins
Bobby Hill - Aramis Ramirez

batmanZoSo
09-13-2004, 04:54 PM
Where does this leave Everett who's guaranteed to be back unless he flat-out doesn't want to?

I don't like that idea, we should be set with Rowand in center and a healthy, slimmer Everett in right. Rowand is more valuable as a center fielder anyway provided he keeps playing solid defense out there. In center his 22 or 23 homers with 80 rbis becomes a big asset rather than in right where it would be below the league average. Take Everett out of the picture and get a great center fielder, then yeah it would be alright.

We're much better off going after a middle infielder. Uribe can play either side and really well too, so that opens up our options. No one's really available in free sgency (well, except Edgar Renteria)...yeah, so moving on. KW should take a look around the league and devise some kind of trade for a MI, maybe in the same Konerko trade. Konerko to LA for Cesar Izturis and others...etc. We need someone with a great glove and speed and who can be a competent leadoff hitter. Doesn't have to be Tim Raines in his prime, just someone who can consistently get on base because he's not concerned with homers.

kittle42
09-13-2004, 04:55 PM
Yes, that was a Dang Great Nucleus. There were a few questions (serious ones) about the Health of the pitching staff, and bullpen and bench, Nothing a little shopping spree couldve Fixed. INSTEAD, they Saved Money and DIDNT fix any of the holes in the team. We went nowhere in 2001. they Cared MORE ABOUT DUMPING SALARY, namely Keith Foulke and Ray Durham. hell, we Gave Away Durham and all we got was Jon Adkins? Are you kidding me? the Cubs got Way More from Bobby Hill and thats all KW could get for Durham? (sometimes best trades are ones you DONT make)
Ray Durham - Jon Adkins
Bobby Hill - Aramis Ramirez
Perhaps you are unaware that the Chicago is the third-smallest smallest market in the majors.

Hangar18
09-13-2004, 05:01 PM
Perhaps you are unaware that the Chicago is the third-smallest smallest market in the majors.

:reinsy
"yes, hes right too you know! Thats why I say, we get rid of the guys making the Big Dollar of my money, and get a few cheaper players with the money. Dont you think thats a great idea? And stop Poo-Poo'ing the cubbies. This towns always been a cub town you know .... we should
be cheering for them!"

pudge
09-13-2004, 06:35 PM
Depending on what the rest of the lineup winds up looking like, I'm not against Gload at 1B, but what is so damn baffling is that Gload wasn't given any bump in playing time after the Frank and Maggs injuries. Instead we piss around with the Borchard experiment and blow the season... why not put Gload in there and see what he can do as a regular if you are considering him for fulltime?? Cripes.

he_gone_89
09-13-2004, 07:04 PM
In other news, the Sox are thinking about losing 90 games next year...

Padilla column in Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug13.html)

Also in that column, the team is thinking about moving Rowand to right field and going after a center fielder. The Sox would then trade Konerko for offense.

since when is hitting 30+ home runs and 100+ runs not "offense" ???

chisoxmike
09-13-2004, 07:06 PM
No way! Keep Paulie! I dont think Gload will/ can produce Konerko type numbers. plus I like him off the bench, or as a guy who can start 1 or 2 games a week.

Granted, this is the reason why Tony G. left last season.

misty60481
09-13-2004, 07:12 PM
How in the hell are we going to replace 40 HRs & 110 RBIS with .280 BA. If it wasnt for Paulie we would be looking at 4th place and how many games have we lost because of his defense? I want to keep Gload but he can not begin to put up Pauls NO.s

Wealz
09-13-2004, 07:25 PM
How in the hell are we going to replace 40 HRs & 110 RBIS with .280 BA. If it wasnt for Paulie we would be looking at 4th place and how many games have we lost because of his defense? I want to keep Gload but he can not begin to put up Pauls NO.s
What's the difference between being in 4th place and being in 2nd, 10 games out?

OEO Magglio
09-13-2004, 07:33 PM
How in the hell are we going to replace 40 HRs & 110 RBIS with .280 BA. If it wasnt for Paulie we would be looking at 4th place and how many games have we lost because of his defense? I want to keep Gload but he can not begin to put up Pauls NO.sWe've had the best group of individuals in the central for a while now, it's time to get away from this and become a team instead of a group of individuals.

SEALgep
09-13-2004, 07:36 PM
Konerko is a good player no doubt, but people aren't taking into consideration his speed, what we can get for him, and how it makes the overall team- which is essentially all that matters. You may not agree we can be better without him, but depending what overall plans we have in the offseason, we may very well be better off without him.

balke
09-13-2004, 09:05 PM
We're much better off going after a middle infielder. Uribe can play either side and really well too, so that opens up our options. No one's really available in free sgency (well, except Edgar Renteria)...yeah, so moving on. KW should take a look around the league and devise some kind of trade for a MI, maybe in the same Konerko trade. Konerko to LA for Cesar Izturis and others...etc. We need someone with a great glove and speed and who can be a competent leadoff hitter. Doesn't have to be Tim Raines in his prime, just someone who can consistently get on base because he's not concerned with homers.

I like the izturis Idea, that kid has a lot of what we are looking for. I just think the dodgers would have to be pretty dumb to give the kid up. PK should be enough to get him I guess, but Izturis has been a "keep your eyes on the kid" kind of guy his whole ML career. He'd be welcome to the sox with open arms.

I think the sox could find something to do with Everett if they instead go after a CF. But, we all know how much faith KW has in the guy. If Everett was as good as KW thinks he'll be healthy, with only a 4mil payroll, he might not be so bad in right. No way he should be in CF though, we've seen his range out there, he can't run forward, period.

I can't wait to see what this team looks like next season. So many holes to fill, so little left to trade. What will sox fans do if KW goes right back after Garciaparra?

Lip Man 1
09-13-2004, 11:16 PM
If Ross Gload, a journeyman, who was dumped by two previous organizations, is your starting first baseman, you are in more trouble then you can imagine.

He is NOT a full time player.

Lip

OEO Magglio
09-13-2004, 11:43 PM
If Ross Gload, a journeyman, who was dumped by two previous organizations, is your starting first baseman, you are in more trouble then you can imagine.

He is NOT a full time player.

LipAnd you know this how??? Just because he couldn't beat out Todd Helton or Mark Grace for a starting job?

jordan23ventura
09-14-2004, 12:14 AM
Gload at first wouldn't be that bad of an idea, IMO. PK has his moments. Sometimes he steps up to the batters box and you know he's going to hit that 3Run Homer to put us head. Other times, you just know he's going to hit into that double play. While theres nothing wrong with a power hitter AT ALL, we need someone who can hit .300 as well and have some speed. Fortunately, we have Carlos, which makes PK easier to let go.

BUT the QUESTION is this:

Does anyone WANT to rebuild this team? By sticking with Gload at 1B, Harris at 2B, Crede at 3B, Uribe at SS, and Davis at C, we are REBUILDING!!!

Picture this lineup:
2B Harris
CF Rowand
LF C Lee
DH Thomas
RF Everett
3B Crede
C Davis
SS Uribe
1B Gload

UGHH!!!

How many more holes have to be opened??

**EDIT: One more thing I'd like to add: I don't see Minnesota becoming any leasier to defeat even with the possible departure of Brad Radke, barring severe injuries to the heart of the team. And Cleveland - my god. That's what we should be worrying about. The Tribe, mark my words, will be thinking playoffs for 2005 - and they just may get there.

kittle42
09-14-2004, 12:40 AM
And you know this how??? Just because he couldn't beat out Todd Helton or Mark Grace for a starting job?
Puh-leeze. You know, part of me hopes that Gload actually does play every day so I can go back to these threads, and the ones from the start of this season re: the great Gload, and laugh at all of you "Gload is the Second Coming" folk. Of course, that will mean the Sox suck again, so it's really just a very small part of me.

doublem23
09-14-2004, 12:43 AM
Are the FORs gaining in popularity?

:tongue:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_340393.jpg
A fan club? Yay!

JRIG
09-14-2004, 08:59 AM
And you know this how??? Just because he couldn't beat out Todd Helton or Mark Grace for a starting job?
Or possibly because he couldn't stick on a major league roster for more than 42 games total until this year, when he's 28 years old and on a team with some of the worst depth in the game.

Deadguy
09-14-2004, 09:09 AM
I'd much rather see this:
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/2323304.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE901A03A3925D0927B2B2AB859027 7083

I'd like to see Thomas at 1B 100 times in a season before his baseball career is officially dead, which isn't far off. Then either stick Everett at DH or go out and get one for 1 or 2 million. I think Rickey would like to see him there too:
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/265762.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE1507D215D3806459D7D52AAB7262 B372

balke
09-14-2004, 09:15 AM
Puh-leeze. You know, part of me hopes that Gload actually does play every day so I can go back to these threads, and the ones from the start of this season re: the great Gload, and laugh at all of you "Gload is the Second Coming" folk. Of course, that will mean the Sox suck again, so it's really just a very small part of me.

There's not a single post on here that says Gload is great, the second coming, all-star calibur, or ready to excel. The farthest people have gone is to say that he isn't that bad of an option. And they are only saying that with the idea the sox fill holes elsewhere.

If PK is gone, and Ross is at first, and the sox don't get 2 more good players, or one great CF/SS, I think it's safe to say everyone on this board will be quite upset.

1B is the only position even resembling depth on the sox roster at this point.

owensmouth
09-14-2004, 09:22 AM
I don't hate paulie. I think he's valuable, 28, and running on catchers legs. I agree he's one of 3 reasons the sox are still in 2nd (Clee Rowand), and posting a winning season. But we do theoretically have FT coming back, and we did have an insane amount of solo HR's this year. This team needs to change it's make-up a bit, and Paulie is a good starting piece. With Maggs theoretically going, maybe it's true the sox are going after a good CF, someone who can post similar #'s with paulie, and someone who has better speed. That would help OUR team out. Gload might bust next season, but you know he has better speed then PK, hits lefties, and has posted great #'s this season. He also plays better D at 1st. If we go with pitching, this team is going to need more D, and more speed.
Don't blame the big guys for the "insane amount of solo HR's", blame the guys that were batting .140 for months who failed to get on base. In Gload you have a guy who won't hit any better than Paulie, average wise, and who will drive in 60 or so fewer RBIs. Not good.

Deadguy
09-14-2004, 09:24 AM
How in the hell are we going to replace 40 HRs & 110 RBIS with .280 BA. If it wasnt for Paulie we would be looking at 4th place and how many games have we lost because of his defense? I want to keep Gload but he can not begin to put up Pauls NO.s Konerko's also got the emotional fragility of Steve Sax. He's never been under the pressure of a Thomas or Ordonez, and we've still seen him fall flat on his face when we needed him the most. Any team built around a guy like Konerko is destined to fail.

balke
09-14-2004, 09:29 AM
Don't blame the big guys for the "insane amount of solo HR's", blame the guys that were batting .140 for months who failed to get on base. In Gload you have a guy who won't hit any better than Paulie, average wise, and who will drive in 60 or so fewer RBIs. Not good.
Just because he is our first baseman, doesn't mean he'll be batting 4th in the line-up. What people are trying to explain is, we could theoretically trade PK for a faster bat in the 1-2-3 spot, that can play D in CF or SS. This would be instead of keeping paulie around to bat 5th next season behind FT and Clee. A lot of peoples RBI count will go up hitting out of the 4 spot the majority of the season, or batting right behind Frank Thomas. Gload in a full season of work, would maybe have 30-40 less RBI hitting where PK does. I doubt he'd even be that far behind.

Deadguy
09-14-2004, 09:30 AM
I cannot believe that any plan that includes Frank being a fulltime or near fulltime 1B has any hope of success. Recurring ankle problems+.280lbs = DL. If you like seeing Frank in the lineup, you'd better have him DH most of the time. If you like seeing him on the DL (in which case you must be loving this season), then go ahead and play him at first. It'll last 1-2 months tops. That's ridiculous. We're talking about 1B here, not SS or CF. 1B essentially requires a guy to crouch down, move 2 or 3 feet to left or right to field a grounder, and jog 5-10 ft. to catch a ball from an infielder. Andres Galaragga could do it at 42 (and he is bigger), and Jullio Franco is still doing it on a regular basis, and he is 10 years older than Frank. Essentially, you are implying that Thomas shouldn't be allowed to move around without the assisteance of a cane or a wheel chair if he wants to remain off the DL, in which case, he should just retire.

Thomas is far more likely to get injured running the basepaths, which is where the last injury occurred. That is where the most pressure is going to be inflicted on his ankles.

Hangar18
09-14-2004, 09:47 AM
What's the difference between being in 4th place and being in 2nd, 10 games out?
About $10 Million to $15 Million Bucks ...........

mdep524
09-14-2004, 09:53 AM
That's ridiculous. We're talking about 1B here, not SS or CF. 1B essentially requires a guy to crouch down, move 2 or 3 feet to left or right to field a grounder, and jog 5-10 ft. to catch a ball from an infielder. Andres Galaragga could do it at 42 (and he is bigger), and Jullio Franco is still doing it on a regular basis, and he is 10 years older than Frank. Essentially, you are implying that Thomas shouldn't be allowed to move around without the assisteance of a cane or a wheel chair if he wants to remain off the DL, in which case, he should just retire.

Thomas is far more likely to get injured running the basepaths, which is where the last injury occurred. That is where the most pressure is going to be inflicted on his ankles.
No matter where Frank plays next year he will spend some chunk of time on the DL, you can book that.

That's why Crazy Carl could be important next year. Maybe he gets some time on the OF while Frank is healthy, but when Frank goes down for a while Carl can fill in at DH.

Hangar18
09-14-2004, 09:54 AM
Don't blame the big guys for the "insane amount of solo HR's", blame the guys that were batting .140 for months who failed to get on base. In Gload you have a guy who won't hit any better than Paulie, average wise, and who will drive in 60 or so fewer RBIs. Not good.
These are the "GRINDERS" that KW talked about in the offseason.
The Definition of "GRINDERS" differs from city to city.

Minnesota/Grinders-"players who hit above average, make contact, field well"
ChicagoWhiteSox/Grinders-"players who are very Inexpensive"
:reinsy
"Dont Forget .....Grinders are Young, Hungry and Hustle Hangar "

batmanZoSo
09-14-2004, 10:14 AM
Don't blame the big guys for the "insane amount of solo HR's", blame the guys that were batting .140 for months who failed to get on base. In Gload you have a guy who won't hit any better than Paulie, average wise, and who will drive in 60 or so fewer RBIs. Not good.
Yeah, it's easy to just compare Konerko to Gload, but what about money? You do know we'd be saving a lot of it by trading Konerko, right? Then Gload + an ace starter becomes a lot better than just Konerko.

kittle42
09-14-2004, 10:29 AM
No matter where Frank plays next year he will spend some chunk of time on the DL, you can book that.

That's why Crazy Carl could be important next year. Maybe he gets some time on the OF while Frank is healthy, but when Frank goes down for a while Carl can fill in at DH.
Everett may be hurt more than Thomas. However, the thing I hate most about Everett being here next year is that it gives JR an excuse not to pursue a real RF.

OEO Magglio
09-14-2004, 10:30 AM
Puh-leeze. You know, part of me hopes that Gload actually does play every day so I can go back to these threads, and the ones from the start of this season re: the great Gload, and laugh at all of you "Gload is the Second Coming" folk. Of course, that will mean the Sox suck again, so it's really just a very small part of me.Who said Gload is the 2nd coming??? He's a good hitter, he's a good firstbasemen and he can run for a 1b, why can't he start? I'm not saying he's a great hitter but imo he's a good hitter and he's one heck of a defensive first baseman. We keep having the best individual players in this division and that has gotten us no where, how about a little change? Keep this thread around if you want kittle, cause if Gload starts I think you'll be pretty impressed.

kittle42
09-14-2004, 10:31 AM
Yeah, it's easy to just compare Konerko to Gload, but what about money? You do know we'd be saving a lot of it by trading Konerko, right? Then Gload + an ace starter becomes a lot better than just Konerko.
Again, why does everyone just assume JR will re-invest this cash? I love the optimism of fans who have seen the same pattern over and over and over again and just ignore it.

:reinsy
"I love it, too!"

batmanZoSo
09-14-2004, 10:44 AM
Again, why does everyone just assume JR will re-invest this cash? I love the optimism of fans who have seen the same pattern over and over and over again and just ignore it.

:reinsy
"I love it, too!"
This conversation is just "in theory," whether or not JR is planning on spending money is another issue. And if there is a feeling that he'll re-invest the cash it's because many newspaper articles have been hinting that KW is looking for this and that. KW doesn't seem to have any unusual constrictions this year. Not like last when so many guys were free agents. This year we have a lot of fat-trimming we can do because of trading Koch, letting Valentin go, letting Maggs walk, possibly trading Konerko, etc. This time we actually should have room to go out and get a few players. Last year, we really didn't. Don't get me wrong, JR could've done the noble thing and went over his "budget" but that's a pipe dream. This year we should have room.

JRIG
09-14-2004, 10:55 AM
This year we have a lot of fat-trimming we can do because of trading Koch, letting Valentin go, letting Maggs walk, possibly trading Konerko, etc. This time we actually should have room to go out and get a few players. Last year, we really didn't. Don't get me wrong, JR could've done the noble thing and went over his "budget" but that's a pipe dream. This year we should have room.
Garcia = $8 million
Everett = $4 million
Contreras = $6 million
Buehrle = $2.25 million raise
Lee = $1.5 million raise
Marte = $1 million raise
Thomas = $2 million raise
$24.75 million

Valentin = $5 million
Mags = $14 million
Koch = $6.375 million
$25.375

All that salary space cleared by not signing Mags, trading Koch, and not re-signing Valentin has already been eaten up by those aquisitions and raises. PLUS, we would need to fill holes at SS and RF by not re-signing Valentin and Koch. 3B and 2B are question marks. Do we need an upgrade at catcher? Bullpen help?

If we trade Konerko we will open some space but downgrade bigtime at 1B. We will be robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak. Any kind of extra salary will be tough to come by via "fat-trimming." It's going to take a substantial increase in payroll from JR. That's not very likely, is it?

kittle42
09-14-2004, 11:44 AM
Garcia = $8 million
Everett = $4 million
Contreras = $6 million
Buehrle = $2.25 million raise
Lee = $1.5 million raise
Marte = $1 million raise
Thomas = $2 million raise
$24.75 million

Valentin = $5 million
Mags = $14 million
Koch = $6.375 million
$25.375

All that salary space cleared by not signing Mags, trading Koch, and not re-signing Valentin has already been eaten up by those aquisitions and raises. PLUS, we would need to fill holes at SS and RF by not re-signing Valentin and Koch. 3B and 2B are question marks. Do we need an upgrade at catcher? Bullpen help?

If we trade Konerko we will open some space but downgrade bigtime at 1B. We will be robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak. Any kind of extra salary will be tough to come by via "fat-trimming." It's going to take a substantial increase in payroll from JR. That's not very likely, is it?
Yay! Sense is being made.

Lip Man 1
09-14-2004, 11:54 AM
OEO:

First base, especially in the American League is a POWER position. Does anybody in their right mind think Gload is a 30 home run, 100 RBI man?????

Lip

PorkChopExpress
09-14-2004, 12:02 PM
OEO:

First base, especially in the American League is a POWER position. Does anybody in their right mind think Gload is a 30 home run, 100 RBI man?????

Lip
Yes.

Oh, I'm sorry, you said in their right mind. I chose to be a Sox fan.

Wealz
09-14-2004, 12:06 PM
If Ross Gload, a journeyman, who was dumped by two previous organizations, is your starting first baseman, you are in more trouble then you can imagine.

He is NOT a full time player.

LipAgreed, trouble for next year, but perhaps better off for the longer run with the savings from Konerko's contract used to help fund the core of this team. It's time to commit to an authentic rebuilding program.

jabrch
09-14-2004, 12:10 PM
With all the knowledge that some people here have, I am shocked none of them ever got hired to run a pro sports franchise. They seem so sure that they can do better than those who are currently doing it. And with as smart as some seem to think they are, it is shocking that they haven't been successful enough to be able to afford to just buy a team. Cuz it should be easy for some of the geniuses here to do that...

OEO Magglio
09-14-2004, 12:11 PM
OEO:

First base, especially in the American League is a POWER position. Does anybody in their right mind think Gload is a 30 home run, 100 RBI man?????

LipWho cares if it's supposed to be a power position I really could careless. The twins have won the division plenty of times without a 30 homerun guy at first base. There will still be plenty of homerun pop in the lineup next year even without pauly in the lineup.

hold2dibber
09-14-2004, 12:14 PM
Everett may be hurt more than Thomas. However, the thing I hate most about Everett being here next year is that it gives JR an excuse not to pursue a real RF.
The thing I like most about Everett being here next year is that he is good enough in RF that the Sox don't need to go after a RF and can, instead, focus on PITCHING, which is the only way they'll have a chance of making 2005 any better than 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004.

hold2dibber
09-14-2004, 12:24 PM
OEO:

First base, especially in the American League is a POWER position. Does anybody in their right mind think Gload is a 30 home run, 100 RBI man?????

Lip
Believe me, I don't think Ross Gload is the answer, but I don't think you have to have a huge slugger at 1B to win. The Angels are in contention with Erstad at 1st, the Twins have won several division crowns with Misckznviech at 1B, Hatteberg has no power at 1B for the A's, Olereud is currently manning 1B for the Yankees, the Braves have no power at 1B, etc. Plus, the Sox in '05 will have get more power from CF (Rowand) and SS (Uribe) than the vast majority of teams, so they can get away with less power at 1B than might be optimal. Pitching is the name of the game for this team - I could live with Gload (or some relatively cheap, good glove, decent bat veteran) at 1B if it meant trading Konerko for either a good starter or a power arm out of the pen plus a legit lead-off hitting 2b (e.g., to Baltimore for Hairston and B.J. Ryan, to Atlanta for Furcal and Reitsma, etc.).

Flight #24
09-14-2004, 12:56 PM
That's ridiculous. We're talking about 1B here, not SS or CF. 1B essentially requires a guy to crouch down, move 2 or 3 feet to left or right to field a grounder, and jog 5-10 ft. to catch a ball from an infielder. Andres Galaragga could do it at 42 (and he is bigger), and Jullio Franco is still doing it on a regular basis, and he is 10 years older than Frank. Essentially, you are implying that Thomas shouldn't be allowed to move around without the assisteance of a cane or a wheel chair if he wants to remain off the DL, in which case, he should just retire.

Thomas is far more likely to get injured running the basepaths, which is where the last injury occurred. That is where the most pressure is going to be inflicted on his ankles.
None of the guys you mentioned have historical ankle problems, or have spent the majority of the past few years sitting on the bench between ABs. Those all work against Frank. Galarraga's also about 15-20lbs lighter than Frank, and Franco's about 100lbs lighter. You're right that Frank's injuries have been caused running the bases, but that's because he hasn't played the field. It's lunacy IMO to take a heavy guy with bad ankles and ask him to play any position in the field on a regular basis, even if it's 1B.

pudge
09-14-2004, 12:57 PM
OEO:

First base, especially in the American League is a POWER position. Does anybody in their right mind think Gload is a 30 home run, 100 RBI man?????

Lip
Yeah, and the Twins won all those years with the powerful Doug M at first base.

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2004, 01:36 PM
Let's all back down a minute.

This is a DeepPink hypothetical. Say Tampa Bay calls Kenny and offers Carl Crawford straight up for Paul Konerko (or Florida offers Juan Pierre). (Yeah, yeah, I know I need to lay off the narcotics.)

If you're Kenny, what do you do?

If I'm Kenny, I make sure the deal is finalized and every i is dotted and t crossed on the trade before I hang up the phone.

Every player is available for the "right price." No one is completely untouchable. If can make a deal to make your team better, you make that deal. Konerko has been a valuable cog in the Sox core this year and in 2000, 2001 and 2002. But that core has failed. Time to try something else.

Hangar, I feel your pain. But if the Sox could get a cheaper, high-OBP leadoff hitter to play CF or RF for Konerko, they could re-invest part of Konerko's money into a free-agent starting pitcher like Pavano, Radke or Clement. If Gload disappoints, Frank can play some 1B (2x/week), allowing Everett to DH. Or Lee could move to 1B. First base is among the easiest positions to fill.

Wouldn't the addition of Crawford/Pierre and Pavano be worth the price of losing Konerko?

maurice
09-14-2004, 02:48 PM
Some have speculated in another thread that Renteria's new deal will pay about the same per year as Konerko's 2005 salary. Assuming you can still add a good SP and a good RP, I'll take Renteria over Konerko. Otherwise, I'm not convinced that KW will be able to get enough value by trading Konerko (while also losing Ordonez) to improve the club.

If JR plays it true to form, we could be stuck watching a poor offensive team playing in a hitter's park next year. :angry:

balke
09-14-2004, 02:56 PM
Some have speculated in another thread that Renteria's new deal will pay about the same per year as Konerko's 2005 salary. Assuming you can still add a good SP and a good RP, I'll take Renteria over Konerko. Otherwise, I'm not convinced that KW will be able to get enough value by trading Konerko (while also losing Ordonez) to improve the club.

If JR plays it true to form, we could be stuck watching a poor offensive team playing in a hitter's park next year. :angry:
I still think the cards take him back next season, winning the world series as they should and hopefully will. I liked the Renteria idea at first, but I only have so much faith in the guy to be a consistant ballplayer. That whole team is one giant golden glove. Their winning ways rub off on each other. Renteria could come here and start sucking real easily IMO.

Plus I watched that Dodgers game Saturday night where he dropped 2 critical DP balls, I'm still a bit upset :redneck

hold2dibber
09-14-2004, 03:39 PM
Some have speculated in another thread that Renteria's new deal will pay about the same per year as Konerko's 2005 salary. Assuming you can still add a good SP and a good RP, I'll take Renteria over Konerko. Otherwise, I'm not convinced that KW will be able to get enough value by trading Konerko (while also losing Ordonez) to improve the club.
To me "enough" value for Konkero just means getting a couple of good players who will contribute for less money - so the money saved can be used to sign a starting pitcher. The example I so frequently cite is Konerko for B.J. Ryan and Hairston. I think it's possible that Konerko could net more in a trade than those 2, but those 2 are perfect players for holes the Sox have (bullpen and leadoff hitter) and combined will make about 1/2 (at most) of what Konerko will make next year. So that means an extra $4 million to throw at Pavano or Radke or someone of that ilk. The point is, you don't have to get equal value for Konerko (or, alternatively, for Lee), but you need to get value in areas where the Sox need help and you need to get payroll relief.

he_gone_89
09-14-2004, 03:57 PM
OEO:

First base, especially in the American League is a POWER position. Does anybody in their right mind think Gload is a 30 home run, 100 RBI man?????

LipGload has less power that willie harris and roberto alomar combined

he'll do like he did this year,but it will be worse,because it will be all year unless we drop him and send his check to the "mags" fund,which should be in there along with the checks of the free agent duo of alomar and everett

gload will have 30 gidp and 100 strikeouts before he has 30 homers and 100 RBIs

PorkChopExpress
09-14-2004, 04:00 PM
To me "enough" value for Konkero just means getting a couple of good players who will contribute for less money - so the money saved can be used to sign a starting pitcher. The example I so frequently cite is Konerko for B.J. Ryan and Hairston. I think it's possible that Konerko could net more in a trade than those 2, but those 2 are perfect players for holes the Sox have (bullpen and leadoff hitter) and combined will make about 1/2 (at most) of what Konerko will make next year. So that means an extra $4 million to throw at Pavano or Radke or someone of that ilk. The point is, you don't have to get equal value for Konerko (or, alternatively, for Lee), but you need to get value in areas where the Sox need help and you need to get payroll relief.
I love that trade. I have been wanting Ryan and Hairston on the Sox since before the trade deadline. Despite their minor roles, I think they would make a huge change in this ballclub.

pudge
09-14-2004, 04:35 PM
With all the knowledge that some people here have, I am shocked none of them ever got hired to run a pro sports franchise. They seem so sure that they can do better than those who are currently doing it. And with as smart as some seem to think they are, it is shocking that they haven't been successful enough to be able to afford to just buy a team. Cuz it should be easy for some of the geniuses here to do that...
What is your problem? It's fans being fans, take a chill. Last I checked, KW took a playoff roster and flushed it down the toliet for four years, so I would say anything the Sox do or don't do is open for debate.

balke
09-14-2004, 05:23 PM
Gload has less power that willie harris and roberto alomar combined

he'll do like he did this year,but it will be worse,because it will be all year unless we drop him and send his check to the "mags" fund,which should be in there along with the checks of the free agent duo of alomar and everett

gload will have 30 gidp and 100 strikeouts before he has 30 homers and 100 RBIs
Willie + Robbie = 15 2B, 2 HR, .260ish avg.
Willie= 360 ABs
Gload= 171 AB's 10 2B, 4 HR, .300 avg

Paulie= 490 Ab's 21 2B 36 HR, 93 SO, 20 GIDP, 102 RBI OBP .358
Gload 3x= 513 Ab's 30 2B, 12 HR, 93 SO, 12 GIDP, 99 RBI OBP .358

Gload realistically probably hits .280 in a season, to paulie's .278

If you think that's such a big gaping hole, feel free to find another spot on the roster with the depth for us to trade and acquire talent from.

Lip Man 1
09-14-2004, 05:56 PM
I'm not saying Konerko should be traded and I think the Sox will have three power bats in the lineup next season (Thomas, Everett and either Lee or Konerko) but my point is that Gload is NOT the answer at first base, he won't even give you Doug M. numbers over 500 - 600 at bats and his defense doesn't even come close to Doug's.

He's a bench player, a part time player...pure and simple. If he's starting at first the Sox are in deep, deep trouble because he is an example of what is wrong with this club. The Sox already have enough question marks on this team. They don't need any more Ross Gload's trying to do something they are not able to do.

The Sox have to stop 'hoping' for miracles and finally get guys who produce. That means proven, established (nee expensive) players with track records.

Lip

kittle42
09-14-2004, 05:58 PM
He's a bench player, a part time player...pure and simple. If he's starting at first the Sox are in deep, deep trouble because he is an example of what is wrong with this club. The Sox already have enough question marks on this team. They don't need any more Ross Gload's trying to do something they are not able to do.
That's just because no one ever gave him a chance! Don't you know all career late twentysomething minor leaguers can be big-time stars if we just let them all play every day? Hell, call up the whole AAA team! We don't even need real big-leaguers!

kittle42
09-14-2004, 06:01 PM
Willie + Robbie = 15 2B, 2 HR, .260ish avg.
Willie= 360 ABs
Gload= 171 AB's 10 2B, 4 HR, .300 avg

Paulie= 490 Ab's 21 2B 36 HR, 93 SO, 20 GIDP, 102 RBI OBP .358
Gload 3x= 513 Ab's 30 2B, 12 HR, 93 SO, 12 GIDP, 99 RBI OBP .358

Gload realistically probably hits .280 in a season, to paulie's .278

If you think that's such a big gaping hole, feel free to find another spot on the roster with the depth for us to trade and acquire talent from.If you really think you can just take a part-time bench player like Ross "I don't know if I can be an everyday player" Gload and accurately calculate performance as above so as to justify getting rid of one of your best offensive players, I know a man who would love to hire you....

:reinsy
"Welcome to the team, balke...now keep working on convincing the rest of them you're right, too."

Officially.....
:threadsucks

maurice
09-14-2004, 06:22 PM
The point is, you don't have to get equal value for Konerko (or, alternatively, for Lee), but you need to get value in areas where the Sox need help and you need to get payroll relief.
Sure. My point was that the trade is only worth it if the players you acquire (both in trade for Konerko and through $$$ savings) exceed the lost offensive production. In the case of a guy like Renteria, I'm fairly certain that WYSIWYG. A guy like Pavano, OTOH, has the potential to bomb with a big contract that destroys the ability to improve the team. Moreover, I'm concerned that JR will end up pocketing part of the savings on Maggs / Konerko if KW is unable to acquire the specific player(s) JR has in mind.

The bottom line is, I'm not opposed to the principle of trading Konerko, as long as KW can use the deal to acquire the right players. But, after the last, disappointing offseason, I'm concerned that the fairly short list of available players I'm interested in all will end up elsewhere . . . leaving a lot of unspent or misspent "cap space," and a worse team than the inadequate 2001-03 bunch.

balke
09-14-2004, 06:30 PM
All boils down to evidence that he could fill in at 1st. And that he in fact DOES have more power than Robbie and Willie combined for the sox this season. (*gasp* my gosh!) And get this, he is not likely to have more GIDP's or SO's then PK himself!



Noone has anything factual to say to the contrary about Gload. :D:

So as fun as it must be for everyone to pretend players suck when they don't (i.e. the Konerko bashers page that was up just last week http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=39694 ) I'd rather be positive and realistic about the sox.

I'll give a player who has the #'s a shot if it gets us a freakin pitcher or SS.
Give me any kind of argument other than "no he can't, cause I said so!" that would make my day.

accurately calculate performance as above so as to justify getting rid of one of your best offensive players, I know a man who would love to hire you....

How many "great offensive players" do we need next season? This is like a freakin merry-go-round. Trade one good offensive player... (you with me?) for ANOTHER good offensive/ better defensive player. So.. (listen up) instead of having GIDPK at 1st, trade him away, and hopefully pick up Andruw Jones. Someone similar to PK in hitting, but in a different position/ faster/ more valuable to the team (Or heck, even a pitcher!)

(This next part is where it gets tricky) The hole filled at first is filled with someone who's been pretty solid for the club this season. Someone projected to have pretty good #'s in a full season starting (Who's that guy who's #'s went up when he started every day? I remember him being in his mid 20's? something about an arrow?).

This does not seem likely to happen when you trade Clee, or Rowand. There's noone here that can play the outfield in thier place, that's pretty much been proven (unless you want timo borchy and Everett out there). Thinking realistically that we have about the same salary as this year, or maybe 5 mil more, you have to make sacrifices like this to get better overall.

And no... I, nor anyone else is this thread is referring to Gload as a second coming, or as the next PK. There are some, like me, that think trading PK could help this team because of a decent back-up like Gload, and his value right now due to his longball #'s.

OEO Magglio
09-14-2004, 06:56 PM
I'm not saying Konerko should be traded and I think the Sox will have three power bats in the lineup next season (Thomas, Everett and either Lee or Konerko) but my point is that Gload is NOT the answer at first base, he won't even give you Doug M. numbers over 500 - 600 at bats and his defense doesn't even come close to Doug's.

He's a bench player, a part time player...pure and simple. If he's starting at first the Sox are in deep, deep trouble because he is an example of what is wrong with this club. The Sox already have enough question marks on this team. They don't need any more Ross Gload's trying to do something they are not able to do.

The Sox have to stop 'hoping' for miracles and finally get guys who produce. That means proven, established (nee expensive) players with track records.

LipOnce again Lip, you make it seem like you know exactly what Gload is going to do. IMO, gload is a better hitter then Mientkiealndsalf but none of us know that for sure. Have you seen enough of Ross at first base to say he can't even come close to Doug there. He's been great there all that I've seen him but I haven't seen him there enough to say how good or bad he is but from everyone who's seen him play a lot there, they've said that he is one heck of a first basemen.

OEO Magglio
09-14-2004, 06:59 PM
That's just because no one ever gave him a chance! Don't you know all career late twentysomething minor leaguers can be big-time stars if we just let them all play every day? Hell, call up the whole AAA team! We don't even need real big-leaguers!You make it sound like it's never happened before. Obviously it doesn't happen a lot but you also usually don't get guys like him who come up to the big leagues at his age and hit over .300 even if it's in limited ab's. Right in your post below you said this thread sucks but your the one who's making it suck with garbage like that.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-14-2004, 07:02 PM
You make it sound like it's never happened before. Obviously it doesn't happen a lot but you also usually don't get guys like him who come up to the big leagues at his age and hit over .300 even if it's in limited ab's.
Well it hasn't happened in 87 years for the Chicago White Sox. How old are you?

You know something, eternity is a bitch.

:)

OEO Magglio
09-14-2004, 07:08 PM
Well it hasn't happened in 87 years for the Chicago White Sox. How old are you?

You know something, eternity is a bitch.

:)88

kittle42
09-14-2004, 09:25 PM
You make it sound like it's never happened before. Obviously it doesn't happen a lot but you also usually don't get guys like him who come up to the big leagues at his age and hit over .300 even if it's in limited ab's. Right in your post below you said this thread sucks but your the one who's making it suck with garbage like that.
No, the first person who suggested Ross Gload could be an everyday ML 1B made this thread suck.

gosox41
09-15-2004, 07:40 AM
You make it sound like it's never happened before. Obviously it doesn't happen a lot but you also usually don't get guys like him who come up to the big leagues at his age and hit over .300 even if it's in limited ab's. Right in your post below you said this thread sucks but your the one who's making it suck with garbage like that.
I'd say it happens as often as a 31 year old journeyman pitcher comes in and has a 20 win season.


Bob

SEALgep
09-15-2004, 07:47 AM
Gload has less power that willie harris and roberto alomar combined

he'll do like he did this year,but it will be worse,because it will be all year unless we drop him and send his check to the "mags" fund,which should be in there along with the checks of the free agent duo of alomar and everett

gload will have 30 gidp and 100 strikeouts before he has 30 homers and 100 RBIsIt doesn't have to be a power position. Right now the Sox are trying to improve speed and defense, while balancing the lineup, which Gload would provide. Gload does have power, and uses the opposite field well. Besides, no one counted how many homers Doug M. has hit, and he has a job in the AL, and held in pretty high regard for his D and contact hitting.

JRIG
09-15-2004, 07:58 AM
You make it sound like it's never happened before. Obviously it doesn't happen a lot but you also usually don't get guys like him who come up to the big leagues at his age and hit over .300 even if it's in limited ab's.
Just like 27-year-old Craig Wilson batting .468 and slugging over .700 in 1998? We all know the greatness he found after that breakout season.

mdep524
09-15-2004, 11:24 AM
I swear, sometimes people really miss the point on these things. Nobody is saying Gload is an All Star in waiting, or better than Konerko. To compare the two is not even fair, Paulie is far and away better. But look at it this way: suppose in a trade Paulie nets you Rafael Furcal (IF) or Jerry Hairston (IF) or Johnny Damon (OF) or Chone Figgins (IF) or Carl Crawford (OF).

Acquiring one of those infielders would bump one of our horrid, horrid infielders (Crede, Uribe, Harris) out of the starting line up for 2005, which would be a huge upgrade- only slightly offset by a downturn at 1B with Gload.

Acquiring an outfielder would cement our outfield for next year, and possibly move CLee to 1B, so there would be NO downgrade.

Acquiring any of those players would significantly improve our top of the line up speed and OBP.

To me, those all seem like win-win situations for the Sox.

Whitesox029
09-18-2004, 10:17 PM
The Sox would then trade Konerko for offense.While we're at it, let's trade Buehrle for a starter, Shingo for a closer, and C. Lee for a big hispanic LF. :?:

DickAllen72
09-18-2004, 10:28 PM
I swear, sometimes people really miss the point on these things. Nobody is saying Gload is an All Star in waiting, or better than Konerko. To compare the two is not even fair, Paulie is far and away better. But look at it this way: suppose in a trade Paulie nets you Rafael Furcal (IF) or Jerry Hairston (IF) or Johnny Damon (OF) or Chone Figgins (IF) or Carl Crawford (OF).

Acquiring one of those infielders would bump one of our horrid, horrid infielders (Crede, Uribe, Harris) out of the starting line up for 2005, which would be a huge upgrade- only slightly offset by a downturn at 1B with Gload.

Acquiring an outfielder would cement our outfield for next year, and possibly move CLee to 1B, so there would be NO downgrade.

Acquiring any of those players would significantly improve our top of the line up speed and OBP.

To me, those all seem like win-win situations for the Sox.


I'd trade Konerko for Chone Figgins or Carl Crawford in a heartbeat. No way would I trade Paulie for Johnny Damon. Furcal I'm not sure about. Hairston should be able to be acquired for less than Konerko.

Man, if we could trade Paulie for Figgins, I'd be elated.