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View Full Version : Ref KW, bad trades versus good ones, how many


LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 02:07 AM
Did KW have more lousy trades than good ones? Considering this is his rookie yr as GM. Explain your answer pls.

Tragg
10-06-2001, 09:00 AM
In the number of trades, it's probably about even.
In the effect of the trades on the team, I think it's a big negative. He loaded us with two big stiff hitters: alomar (okay, free agent, but a poor one) and clayton. Glover has helped.
But the ramirez trade, e.g., which I think is probably okay, hasn't affected the m.l. team much (and if it has, it was negatively); the wells trade, okay on paper, didn't help.
The osuna trade - which I never liked - didn't affect us either except for about 3 games.
Baldwin is no great pitcher, but he still could have extracted more given the circumstances. The Christenson trade didn't affect us much as christenson wasn't playing - but, again, we traded a AAA player for an A ball player.
The other thing is is that KW has loaded us with some bad contracts - osuna, clayton and alomar will all be tough to dump because of high salary.
So, I vote bad exceed good, although strictly numerically, that may not be the case.

czalgosz
10-06-2001, 10:46 AM
I thought Alomar was just a one-year deal. I could be wrong, though... Anyway, Osuna will be given another chance to perform. They are stuck with him. I was amazed when they gave him a multi-year deal just after trading for him, when they wouldn't do the same for James Baldwin, who's been much healthier over his career. The Sox will quietly shop Clayton, but who knows if they'll get any buyers?

oldcomiskey
10-06-2001, 11:36 AM
the thing that bothers me about all this is
1> we **** on Herb Perry--a hero from 2000
2-- Im so afraid the Sox are going to trade Lee or Konerko for nobody just to make room for Canseco, who, has contributed a helluva lot more than I expected--I kinda like the guy now
3-Clayton has got to go--no matter if we keep Herb or not
4- Boomer has got to stay---if nothing more than to further the education of our kids on the bump
5- or worse than number two they try to put canseco in left--he would be Lee defensive equal but if we keep hitless we need all the offense we can get---or
they try to move PK to third

Jerry_Manuel
10-06-2001, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I thought Alomar was just a one-year deal. I could be wrong, though... Anyway, Osuna will be given another chance to perform. They are stuck with him. I was amazed when they gave him a multi-year deal just after trading for him, when they wouldn't do the same for James Baldwin, who's been much healthier over his career. The Sox will quietly shop Clayton, but who knows if they'll get any buyers?


Alomar has signed a 2 year deal.
James Baldwin doesn't deserve a multi year deal. Osuna did not cost anywhere as much as signing JB would have.

LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



Alomar has signed a 2 year deal.
James Baldwin doesn't deserve a multi year deal. Osuna did not cost anywhere as much as signing JB would have. I was cuttting him a lot of slack before today, now forget it....... he sucks the big royally........ he is a loser of a gm and doesn't have a clue on what he is doing.

oldcomiskey
10-06-2001, 07:09 PM
then he just got lucky with Glover is that what youre saying---how bout Boomer too---and lest we forget why Boomer and Alomar were here---to teach the youngsters as well--admittingly though he blew it on Royce and keeping Baines... But how bout the Abbott for Ramirez deal---

LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
then he just got lucky with Glover is that what youre saying---how bout Boomer too---and lest we forget why Boomer and Alomar were here---to teach the youngsters as well--admittingly though he blew it on Royce and keeping Baines... But how bout the Abbott for Ramirez deal--- and how bout the barry/berry trade......... what wisdom he had....... yep he knew what he was doing and showed it to everybody........... wow... i am sooooo impressed.

boomer taught a lot to this young stuff from the injured reserved, yep he was at the field giving his voice of experience to these youngster.

Daver
10-06-2001, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
and how bout the barry/berry trade......... what wisdom he had....... yep he knew what he was doing and showed it to everybody........... wow... i am sooooo impressed.

boomer taught a lot to this young stuff from the injured reserved, yep he was at the field giving his voice of experience to these youngster.

Mark Buehrle does not have the season he had without Boomer's advice early in the season,ask him.

LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by daver


Mark Buehrle does not have the season he had without Boomer's advice early in the season,ask him. is that so...... ok, i buy that, but why wasn't he there the rest of the season to continuing to help?

Daver
10-06-2001, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
is that so...... ok, i buy that, but why wasn't he there the rest of the season to continuing to help?

Cause he didn't have to be.I am not trying to make a hero out of D.Wells,I was just bringing up a point.

LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by daver


Cause he didn't have to be.I am not trying to make a hero out of D.Wells,I was just bringing up a point. i know. i was trying to save part of my point.

duke of dorwood
10-06-2001, 11:08 PM
I vote break even. We missed Abbott and Greg Norton. Clayton was a chemistry bust . Wells, Glover, Canseco, Embree, were pluses. Giving Gascan the contract, and Osuna were bad. That $ could have gone to Keith.

:reinsy

Does what I tell him too

Jerry_Manuel
10-06-2001, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Clayton was a chemistry bust . Wells, Glover, Canseco, Embree , were pluses.

Embree was a plus?
Explain how.

LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I vote break even. We missed Abbott and Greg Norton. Clayton was a chemistry bust . Wells, Glover, Canseco, Embree, were pluses. Giving Gascan the contract, and Osuna were bad. That $ could have gone to Keith.

:reinsy

Does what I tell him too embree is a plus? on hindsight, siro will be back from surgery and wells, who knows. so i would've still made that trade........

LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 11:13 PM
LMAO...... sorry jerry.

duke of dorwood
10-06-2001, 11:17 PM
Yeah, we got a good left hander for the bullpen . I like more than 1 lefty out there.

:pulsipher

Me too?

LongDistanceFan
10-06-2001, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Yeah, we got a good left hander for the bullpen . I like more than 1 lefty out there.
Me too? how is embree the answer when he was getting shelled? i mean he has great stuff, but really.

Jerry_Manuel
10-06-2001, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Yeah, we got a good left hander for the bullpen . I like more than 1 lefty out there.


I hope your kidding his era was like 14 when he got here from the Giants. He throws hard but the ball doesn't have much movement on it. I would have much rather taken my chances with Ken Vinning then Embree. But that's just me, your welcome to your own opinion.

Daver
10-06-2001, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I hope your kidding his era was like 14 when he got here from the Giants. He throws hard but the ball doesn't have much movement on it. I would have much rather taken my chances with Ken Vinning then Embree. But that's just me, your welcome to your own opinion.

Embree has real potential if he could work with a pitching coach that knows his ass from third base.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Jerry_Manuel
10-06-2001, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by daver
Embree has real potential if he could work with a pitching coach that knows his ass from third base.


Look at this:
92 with Tribe: 18 IP, 7.00 ERA
95 with Tribe: 24.2 IP, 5.11 ERA
96 with Tribe: 31 IP, 6.39 ERA
97 with Braves: 46 IP, 2.54 ERA
98 with Braves: 18.2 IP, 4.34 ERA
98 with D-Backs: 35 IP, 4.11 ERA
99 with SF: 58.2 IP, 3.38 ERA
00 with SF: 60 IP, 4.95 ERA
01 with SF: 20 IP, 11.25 ERA
01 with Sox: 33.1 IP, 5.13 ERA

Is it the pitching coaches or him? I highlighted the Braves because we know they have a great pitching coach.

Daver
10-07-2001, 12:02 AM
I would say he didn't do bad in Atlanta,and is it the coach or the pitchers in that case?Most of that staff was handpicked from the best available.

But then again what the hell do I know?

LongDistanceFan
10-07-2001, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by daver
I would say he didn't do bad in Atlanta,and is it the coach or the pitchers in that case?Most of that staff was handpicked from the best available.

But then again what the hell do I know? 98 with Braves: 18.2 IP, 4.34 ERA and a couple of yrs later, he was good. but he is a gamble at best........ i do not deny that he good stuff, but if he hasn't learned to pitch by now, when is he going to?

Steve Bartman
08-08-2003, 01:30 PM
we finally have a GM that wants to win as bad as us. Only if we could say the same thing about the chairman.

gosox41
08-08-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
we finally have a GM that wants to win as bad as us. Only if we could say the same thing about the chairman.

Wow, there's a ton of old threads getting brught back fok oblivion.

IMHO, KW has show improvement as a GM. The Colon and Alomar trades were great. I'll give him credit for Loiaza, though I think he's better then anyone imagined. He's slowly learning his job, though the Schoeneweis trade shows he still has work to do.

I don't follow the minors as closely, but people here rave about his drafts, especially this years. He was stillwrong to draft Royce Ring last year (especially considering he wanted Blanton and he's kick butt in the A's system) but time will tell about that.

It also helps KW stopped blaming the fans for not having a higher pay roll. However much true it may or may not be, Sox mgmt. shouldn't blame their loyal customers when a lot of the teams problems are caused by their own ineptness to begin with.

Now if KW would get the guts to fire JM and not hire one of his cronies, I might really start to respect him.

Bob

Steve Bartman
08-09-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Wow, there's a ton of old threads getting brught back fok oblivion.

IMHO, KW has show improvement as a GM. The Colon and Alomar trades were great. I'll give him credit for Loiaza, though I think he's better then anyone imagined. He's slowly learning his job, though the Schoeneweis trade shows he still has work to do.

I don't follow the minors as closely, but people here rave about his drafts, especially this years. He was stillwrong to draft Royce Ring last year (especially considering he wanted Blanton and he's kick butt in the A's system) but time will tell about that.

It also helps KW stopped blaming the fans for not having a higher pay roll. However much true it may or may not be, Sox mgmt. shouldn't blame their loyal customers when a lot of the teams problems are caused by their own ineptness to begin with.

Now if KW would get the guts to fire JM and not hire one of his cronies, I might really start to respect him.

Bob

The Colon and Alomar trades were great, but I think people ought to start giving KW more credit for bringing Carl Everett to the south side. He has gotten some clutch hits for us, and he is now on a 6 game hit streak, sending his average up 5 points. In the playoffs, I think Everett is the type of guy that could take it to the next level and really carry a ball club.

As for the Schoeneweis trade, I believe it's going to be a good one. Last year in the world series, whenever the Bonds was up late in the game they brought in Schoeneweis to get Bonds out. He did just that too, he got Bonds out every time. Glover never is going to be any thing more than a fifth starter or long relief man. I think KW has been a good G.M., considering the very small pay roll the chairman has given him.