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Bucktown
09-11-2004, 01:47 AM
It seems to me that the line between players that are performing and those that are not has become clearer as of late. I would really like to see these players go elsewhere in the off-season:


Joe Crede - the single greatest contributor to this year's disappointment
Jose Valentin - its over Jose
Robby Alomar - and stop bringing him back!
Carl Everett - and stop bringing him back!
Sandy Alomar - let hime go to Cleveland like we got Baines when he should have retired
Clearly the core is Aaron Rowand, Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko. I also believe that Jamie Burke, Timo Perez, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload will continue to improve.
I am on the fence regarding Juan Uribe. He may have won me back with his play lately.

Wait 'til next year!

Tragg
09-11-2004, 01:54 AM
It seems to me that the line between players that are performing and those that are not has become clearer as of late. I would really like to see these players go elsewhere in the off-season:

Joe Crede - the single greatest contributor to this year's disappointment
Jose Valentin - its over Jose
Robby Alomar - and stop bringing him back!
Carl Everett - and stop bringing him back!
Sandy Alomar - let hime go to Cleveland like we got Baines when he should have retired
Clearly the core is Aaron Rowand, Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko. I also believe that Jamie Burke, Timo Perez, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload will continue to improve.
I am on the fence regarding Juan Uribe. He may have won me back with his play lately.

Wait 'til next year!Can't agree with Crede- young player, solid glove, some power should improve. Especially can't agree if you are trumpeting Perez and his .293 OBP and 5 homers.
Bigger offensive priorities will be in RF and lead-off hitter.

Rex Hudler
09-11-2004, 01:56 AM
1. I don't see Crede going anywhere. They won't give up on him yet.
2. It should have been over two months ago. Hitting .150 since the AS Break.
3. Agreed
4. Has a player option ($4 million, I believe) - Sox have no choice
5. I'd be surprised if he his back.

I am not convince Timo or Harris will be back. Willie probably will and probably should be, but I think he has really frustrated Ozzie this year.

dcb33
09-11-2004, 02:29 AM
It seems to me that the line between players that are performing and those that are not has become clearer as of late. I would really like to see these players go elsewhere in the off-season:

Joe Crede - the single greatest contributor to this year's disappointment
Jose Valentin - its over Jose
Robby Alomar - and stop bringing him back!
Carl Everett - and stop bringing him back!
Sandy Alomar - let hime go to Cleveland like we got Baines when he should have retired
Clearly the core is Aaron Rowand, Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko. I also believe that Jamie Burke, Timo Perez, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload will continue to improve.
I am on the fence regarding Juan Uribe. He may have won me back with his play lately.

Wait 'til next year!I'm not sold on Uribe, either. He's a stud defensively, but he still seems like a complete headcase at the plate. I'd feel much better about next year if we got someone good up the middle, moving Uribe to the bench...

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 10:17 AM
....Clearly the core is Aaron Rowand, Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko. I also believe that Jamie Burke, Timo Perez, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload will continue to improve.
I am on the fence regarding Juan Uribe. He may have won me back with his play lately.I'm not going to dispute your point. However if the players you've named here truly constitute the "core" of the White Sox, then this is without question THE WORST White Sox roster since the late-80's. The core back then consisted of hope & prayer mediocrities like Daryl Boston, Dan Pasqua, and Dave Gallagher.

My God... we're in for some rough sledding if these piles of **** are what we intend to build around.

Look out be-looooooooooooooooooooow....

:(:

JRIG
09-11-2004, 10:26 AM
I'm not going to dispute your point. However if the players you've named here truly constitute the "core" of the White Sox, then this is without question THE WORST White Sox roster since the late-80's. The core back then consisted of hope & prayer mediocrities like Daryl Boston, Dan Pasqua, and Dave Gallagher.

My God... we're in for some rough sledding if these piles of **** are what we intend to build around.

Look out be-looooooooooooooooooooow....

:(:
What about Carlos Martinez?

I'll go ahead and say it. If any combination of Jamie Burke, Timo Perez, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload are prominently involved in next year's lineup, we are well on our way to 90 losses. It's pretty simple.

Win1ForMe
09-11-2004, 10:37 AM
What about Carlos Martinez?

I'll go ahead and say it. If any combination of Jamie Burke, Timo Perez, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload are prominently involved in next year's lineup, we are well on our way to 90 losses. It's pretty simple.:?: Hasn't a combination of those players been prominently involved in this year's lineup? Some like to over-dramatize, I guess.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 10:38 AM
What about Carlos Martinez?
LOL! Yeah, he belongs with Boston, Pasqua, and Gallagher, too. If WSI had existed back in 1988, I'm sure we would have posters telling us how rosy the future will be with these guys as our "core," too.

:smokin:

JRIG
09-11-2004, 10:53 AM
:?: Hasn't a combination of those players been prominently involved in this year's lineup? Some like to over-dramatize, I guess.
Willie Harris will finish with about 375 at bats. Timo Perez about 300, Gload about 180 and Burke about 110. Not exactly a ton, but some people want a lot more. Most of the playing time for those guys have come since the All-Star break when, until Sept 1 (and a mini winning streak), the team went 18-27. A winning pecentage of .400, which translates into a 65-97 record over a full season.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 10:55 AM
Willie Harris will finish with about 375 at bats. Timo Perez about 300, Gload about 180 and Burke about 110. Not exactly a ton, but some people want a lot more. Most of the playing time for those guys have come since the All-Star break when, until Sept 1 (and a mini winning streak), the team went 18-27. A winning pecentage of .400, which translates into a 65-97 record over a full season.
Exactomundo.

And the record of the 1988 White Sox? 67-94, .441.

Game. Set. Match.

:)

balboner
09-11-2004, 10:59 AM
I really hope people aren't being serious when they say that they think Willie will improve alot, but they aren't sold on Uribe. Uribe is head and shoulders above Willie in nearly every possible aspect on the baseball field. If the Sox were to get rid of Uribe, but keep Willie and his weak fly balls to LF, choppers to 2b, and strike out looking style, I would be quite upset. I can't see how Willie Harris should start on a contending team. He's just not good.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 11:04 AM
I really hope people aren't being serious when they say that they think Willie will improve alot, but they aren't sold on Uribe. Uribe is head and shoulders above Willie in nearly every possible aspect on the baseball field. If the Sox were to get rid of Uribe, but keep Willie and his weak fly balls to LF, choppers to 2b, and strike out looking style, I would be quite upset. I can't see how Willie Harris should start on a contending team. He's just not good.
Uribe *might* be the real deal. He came from Colorado and hasn't gotten enough playing time for the A.L. pitchers to have a good book on how to pitch him yet. We'll see...

On the other hand, put a fork in Willie Harris. He's done. I wouldn't mind him as the 24th or 25th man on the roster, but he is no kind of everyday ballplayer regardless what position or lineup hole you put him into.

Frankly, Harris never was an everyday player. He got his chance in 2004 strictly because Roberto Alomar was too much an egotistical prick to take the generous offer KW offered to re-sign him last winter.

Uribe is clearly better than Harris. However this is faint praise.

:anon:

balboner
09-11-2004, 11:47 AM
I know there's a lot of Willie Harris fans on these White Sox boards, but I think he flat out sucks. He cant bunt, cant steal, cant hit for power/extra base hits, and his fielding isn't special. I know people think he has this great range, but that noodle arm of his doesn't allow him to complete some tough plays in the hole, etc. Pea Pod is nowhere close to a mlb starter, but I'm sure the Sox will start him at 2b next year. Harris just brings nothing to the table that brings an advantage to the Sox. Easily one of the least dangerous hitters in baseball, if you ask me.

DickAllen72
09-11-2004, 11:50 AM
Can't agree with Crede- young player, solid glove, some power should improve. Especially can't agree if you are trumpeting Perez and his .293 OBP and 5 homers.
Bigger offensive priorities will be in RF and lead-off hitter.

If we had a guy like Chone Figgins at third instead of Crede, we'd be a whole lot better. Crede is too slow, especially when you already have a guy like Konerko in your starting lineup. He hits more home runs than Figgins, but that's the only thing he's better at.

I'd like to see the Sox get guys more like Figgins who can hit well, run very well and is very versatile in the field, and guys like Rob Mackowiack who can play more than one position well and can still hit pretty well, rather than slow guys who hit more home runs like Crede.

JRIG
09-11-2004, 11:52 AM
I know there's a lot of Willie Harris fans on these White Sox boards, but I think he flat out sucks. He cant bunt, cant steal, cant hit for power/extra base hits, and his fielding isn't special. I know people think he has this great range, but that noodle arm of his doesn't allow him to complete some tough plays in the hole, etc. Pea Pod is nowhere close to a mlb starter, but I'm sure the Sox will start him at 2b next year. Harris just brings nothing to the table that brings an advantage to the Sox. Easily one of the least dangerous hitters in baseball, if you ask me.I can see it now...

:KW
"We still don't know what Willie can do. He hasn't got a full season of playing time yet in his career. I'm a big Willie Harris fan. He's a grinder. And he's going to be our starting second baseman in 2005. At least until I trade for Robbie Alomar again in July."

:help:

cornball
09-11-2004, 01:20 PM
Uribe *might* be the real deal. He came from Colorado and hasn't gotten enough playing time for the A.L. pitchers to have a good book on how to pitch him yet. We'll see...

On the other hand, put a fork in Willie Harris. He's done. I wouldn't mind him as the 24th or 25th man on the roster, but he is no kind of everyday ballplayer regardless what position or lineup hole you put him into.

Frankly, Harris never was an everyday player. He got his chance in 2004 strictly because Roberto Alomar was too much an egotistical prick to take the generous offer KW offered to re-sign him last winter.

Uribe is clearly better than Harris. However this is faint praise.

:anon:
I agree that Crede will be here for next year for sure. I say that because he plays a decent 3rd, he is cheap and has had success in the past.

Uribe's best role would be to be a utility man. He is much better than Harris whose only asset is speed, which he doesn't use well on the basepaths.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 01:41 PM
I agree that Crede will be here for next year for sure. I say that because he plays a decent 3rd, he is cheap and has had success in the past.

Uribe's best role would be to be a utility man. He is much better than Harris whose only asset is speed, which he doesn't use well on the basepaths.
Put a fork in Crede. He's done. Only a championship pretender would have him as their everyday thirdbasemen. He's not even a good option as reserve utility man because he only plays one position. Crede's train has left the station. Trade him for something of value... like a box of white baseballs.

As for Uribe, I'm willing to see what he can do on a full-time basis. However Harris is strictly a #24/#25 roster filler. He doesn't get on base enough for his speed to even be a factor. He might be a useful bench player because he plays lots of positions. Other than that, forget about him.

cornball
09-11-2004, 02:55 PM
Put a fork in Crede. He's done. Only a championship pretender would have him as their everyday thirdbasemen. He's not even a good option as reserve utility man because he only plays one position. Crede's train has left the station. Trade him for something of value... like a box of white baseballs.

As for Uribe, I'm willing to see what he can do on a full-time basis. However Harris is strictly a #24/#25 roster filler. He doesn't get on base enough for his speed to even be a factor. He might be a useful bench player because he plays lots of positions. Other than that, forget about him.
PHG sounds like your a little fed up with the whole mess.

fquaye149
09-11-2004, 03:00 PM
Exactomundo.

And the record of the 1988 White Sox? 67-94, .441.

Game. Set. Match.

:) meanwhile frank will be back next year and we SHOULD pick up a 5th starter if kenny's worth a damn (i, unlike the fobbs think he is). who do we lose except magglio (who played like 50 games this year) and jose? so how can we possibly be WORSE than this year? or at least worse to the tune of 90 losses?

Win1ForMe
09-11-2004, 03:25 PM
Willie Harris will finish with about 375 at bats. Timo Perez about 300, Gload about 180 and Burke about 110. Not exactly a ton, but some people want a lot more. Most of the playing time for those guys have come since the All-Star break when, until Sept 1 (and a mini winning streak), the team went 18-27. A winning pecentage of .400, which translates into a 65-97 record over a full season.
You're really off on your dates there. Willie has been playing the entire season, Timo was an everyday player since Maggs went down, not since the ASB. Borchard has actually played more in the stretch you described (130+ ABs vs Timo's 106). And attributing our poor performance in that stretch to Burke and his .379 average is pretty stupid (not that I think he'll repeat that, but still you seem to think him being in there has somehow hurt us). Besides there are other factor's for our poor record: Garland's dip in performance from Apr-May to Jun-Aug, more starts from 5th starters, Garcia missing starts, horrid play of Valentin and Robbie, etc. Look, I'm not saying they're a play-off team or anything but your 97 loss prediction is just as extreme. And if Timo/Willie/Burke/Gload are playing everyday next year, it means the team would have money to replace stiffs like Valentin, Crede, Garland, and the 5th starter.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 04:03 PM
PHG sounds like your a little fed up with the whole mess.Really?

:noevil:

Actually I've been pretty fed up for most of the last 20 years... but that's another story. :yup:

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 04:07 PM
meanwhile frank will be back next year and we SHOULD pick up a 5th starter if kenny's worth a damn (i, unlike the fobbs think he is). who do we lose except magglio (who played like 50 games this year) and jose? so how can we possibly be WORSE than this year? or at least worse to the tune of 90 losses?
Actually, the premise of this thread is who the "core" of the White Sox should be. Frank was NOT named. Look it up for yourself.

Of course I agree any team with Frank Thomas on it can't be too bad. However the "core" of the White Sox named in this thread is pretty damn scary... scary enough to invoke comparisons to the godawful late-80's White Sox.

:(:

BainesHOF
09-11-2004, 04:15 PM
Uribe is head and shoulders above Willie in nearly every possible aspect on the baseball field.
You are correct, sir.

misty60481
09-11-2004, 04:37 PM
I dont think Willie has hit the ball out of the infield in his last 10 at bats

fquaye149
09-11-2004, 06:08 PM
Actually, the premise of this thread is who the "core" of the White Sox should be. Frank was NOT named. Look it up for yourself.

Of course I agree any team with Frank Thomas on it can't be too bad. However the "core" of the White Sox named in this thread is pretty damn scary... scary enough to invoke comparisons to the godawful late-80's White Sox.

:(: ok. i didn't realize we were being hypothetical. The fact is that frank will be back last year, but i agree that if we pretend that he's not coming back then we probably will lose 90 games.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 06:36 PM
ok. i didn't realize we were being hypothetical. The fact is that frank will be back last year, but i agree that if we pretend that he's not coming back then we probably will lose 90 games.
The '88 Sox had Carlton Fisk and Harold Baines. It ain't hypothetical.
:(:

batmanZoSo
09-11-2004, 06:42 PM
It seems to me that the line between players that are performing and those that are not has become clearer as of late. I would really like to see these players go elsewhere in the off-season:

Joe Crede - the single greatest contributor to this year's disappointment
Jose Valentin - its over Jose
Robby Alomar - and stop bringing him back!
Carl Everett - and stop bringing him back!
Sandy Alomar - let hime go to Cleveland like we got Baines when he should have retired
Clearly the core is Aaron Rowand, Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko. I also believe that Jamie Burke, Timo Perez, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload will continue to improve.
I am on the fence regarding Juan Uribe. He may have won me back with his play lately.

Wait 'til next year!
On the fence with Uribe? He's 25 years old, has 19 homers and 62 rbis and has a hell of a glove. There's no doubt we made out like bandits finding him. He's got a solid .270s average and can play three positions well.

Everett is not a problem on this team. All he has to do is lose some weight and maybe play winter ball. Ozzie made it clear what he expects of him, so I would expect nothing less than just that. Everett should be fine...besides, he has to stay because Magglio's probably leaving.

fquaye149
09-11-2004, 08:08 PM
The '88 Sox had Carlton Fisk and Harold Baines. It ain't hypothetical.
:(:
Ok, well now we're back to square one. I just don't understand how we'll be worse next year than this year with Frank healthy. I guess I must be missing how our losses (Magglio and Valentin) were big contributors this year?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 08:36 PM
Ok, well now we're back to square one. I just don't understand how we'll be worse next year than this year with Frank healthy. I guess I must be missing how our losses (Magglio and Valentin) were big contributors this year?
Only Bucktown can answer your question. He is the one who defined the "core" as the younger ballplayers to build the franchise around. I merely noted how mediocre and downright crappy most of our "core" truly is. In fact they are sooooo bad, a comparison to the '88 Sox (who lost 90+ games) is perfectly reasonable.

Soxfest
09-11-2004, 10:55 PM
I'm not going to dispute your point. However if the players you've named here truly constitute the "core" of the White Sox, then this is without question THE WORST White Sox roster since the late-80's. The core back then consisted of hope & prayer mediocrities like Daryl Boston, Dan Pasqua, and Dave Gallagher.

My God... we're in for some rough sledding if these piles of **** are what we intend to build around.

Look out be-looooooooooooooooooooow....

:(:


I agree with you maybe we should add the great John Cangelosi to the list .

Brian26
09-12-2004, 02:05 PM
LOL! Yeah, he belongs with Boston, Pasqua, and Gallagher, too. If WSI had existed back in 1988, I'm sure we would have posters telling us how rosy the future will be with these guys as our "core," too.

:smokin:
Man, you're brutal!

I'll be the first one to admit the Sox lineup looks REALLY different, in a negative way, without Frank there. It looks even worse without Magglio. Then I start to wonder how the hell we haven't won 5 straight division titles and never got anything done in the early to mid-90's. Very, very depressing.

I have to give a little bit more credit to PK and CLee though. I think both guys are infinitely better and have produced consistently, unlike Daryl Boston and Pasqua. I'm sure some smart ass is going to pull up some stats that show Daryl Boston had a higher career OPS than Caballo, or Pasqua owns more homers and a higher average than PK, but I'll have to believe it when I see it.

Brian26
09-12-2004, 02:08 PM
PHG sounds like your a little fed up with the whole mess.
Hehe. It's fun to read a thread in its entirety a couple of days after it was started. PHG is pissed.

Brian26
09-12-2004, 02:11 PM
Of course I agree any team with Frank Thomas on it can't be too bad. However the "core" of the White Sox named in this thread is pretty damn scary... scary enough to invoke comparisons to the godawful late-80's White Sox.

:(:
I think the current core (PK, Lee, Rowand) is better than the late 80's core. What I'm worried about is that the current fringe players (Willie, Timo, Burke, Uribe) might be a lot worse than those late 80's fringe players (Redus, Fletcher, Calderon, One Dog).

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2004, 02:11 PM
Hehe. It's fun to read a thread in its entirety a couple of days after it was started. PHG is pissed.Pissed? No.

Resigned? Absolutely. The Sox have been treading water for 10 years and some people here still think the stars are about to come into perfect alignment for the big championship push. I've got news for all of you... second-place is for #1 losers.

You want a winner? You had better start thinking about more than just Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko as your "core."

Brian26
09-12-2004, 02:13 PM
Only Bucktown can answer your question. He is the one who defined the "core" as the younger ballplayers to build the franchise around. I merely noted how mediocre and downright crappy most of our "core" truly is. In fact they are sooooo bad, a comparison to the '88 Sox (who lost 90+ games) is perfectly reasonable.
Lost in all of this discussion is a comparison of the two pitching staffs.

Would it be safe to say Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras and Garland blow the '88 staff out of the water?

Who the hell did we have back then? The corpse of Jerry Reuss? Dave LaPoint? Eric King?

Brian26
09-12-2004, 02:16 PM
Resigned? Absolutely. The Sox have been treading water for 10 years and some people here still think the stars are about to come into perfect alignment for the big championship push. I've got news for all of you... second-place is for #1 losers.
As time passes on, I think, unfortunately, the 2003 year is going to be the biggest disappointment in Sox history. That team was absolutely loaded and couldn't get the job done.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2004, 02:21 PM
Lost in all of this discussion is a comparison of the two pitching staffs.

Would it be safe to say Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras and Garland blow the '88 staff out of the water?

Who the hell did we have back then? The corpse of Jerry Reuss? Dave LaPoint? Eric King?
LOL! You really hate dealing with reality, don't you?

The 1988 Sox were ranked ninth in the A.L. in Team ERA. The 2004 Sox are currently ranked ninth, too.

Keep dragging on that crack pipe. Our "core" doesn't suck as bad as 1988...

soxtalker
09-12-2004, 02:40 PM
I don't quite understand the comparison with the team of the late 80's. They weren't very good, but there were a bunch of young players about to come up from the minors (e.g., Frank and Robin). I don't see the same sort of promise now.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2004, 03:31 PM
I don't quite understand the comparison with the team of the late 80's. They weren't very good, but there were a bunch of young players about to come up from the minors (e.g., Frank and Robin). I don't see the same sort of promise now.
Good point. The '88 Sox were followed by a team even worse, the '89 Sox that lost 92 games and spent the entire six months of the season in last place.

The '90 Sox engineered a remarkable comeback (94 wins) but that was with the help of #1 draft pick phenoms Jack McDowell (1987), Robin Ventura (1988), Frank Thomas (1989), and Alex Fernandez (1990). There isn't anything coming up from the Sox minor leagues even remotely as talented as these four players to replace/demote the likes of Jon Garland, Joe Crede, Paul Konerko, and whichever pile of trash Kenny Williams digs up to start on the hill every fifth day.

Our "core" sucks.

batmanZoSo
09-12-2004, 05:24 PM
LOL! You really hate dealing with reality, don't you?

The 1988 Sox were ranked ninth in the A.L. in Team ERA. The 2004 Sox are currently ranked ninth, too.

Keep dragging on that crack pipe. Our "core" doesn't suck as bad as 1988...
Our current 1-4 is probably better than whatever we had in 88. If the team ERA is similar it's probably skewed by the 5th starter and a mediocre bullpen. But we do have two really good starters that you can truly build around and form a dominant rotation. And Contreras and Garland both have potential to be great, like them or not. I think we're close with the right moves and a little initiative in spending some extra money to fill a few holes. I wouldn't have thought that in 88 whatsoever.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2004, 05:33 PM
Our current 1-4 is probably better than whatever we had in 88. If the team ERA is similar it's probably skewed by the 5th starter and a mediocre bullpen. But we do have two really good starters that you can truly build around and form a dominant rotation. And Contreras and Garland both have potential to be great, like them or not. I think we're close with the right moves and a little initiative in spending some extra money to fill a few holes. I wouldn't have thought that in 88 whatsoever.
Oh, brother... you must be seriously nuts if you think I'm going to start debating the relative merits of INDIVIDUAL ballplayers from two different eras. Suffice to say the '88 Sox had a PITCHING STAFF that ranked in the bottom-half of the American League and today's Sox staff is no better.

Keep wishing and hoping it isn't true... today's Jon Garland is yesterday's Melido Perez.

batmanZoSo
09-12-2004, 05:48 PM
Oh, brother... you must be seriously nuts if you think I'm going to start debating the relative merits of INDIVIDUAL ballplayers from two different eras. Suffice to say the '88 Sox had a PITCHING STAFF that ranked in the bottom-half of the American League and today's Sox staff is no better.

Keep wishing and hoping it isn't true... today's Jon Garland is yesterday's Melido Perez.
Give this team one more #1-2 starter and it's a whole new ballgame, we're almost certainly in first. Put Freddy Garcia on that Sox team and they still suck.

Brian26
09-12-2004, 06:36 PM
LOL! You really hate dealing with reality, don't you?

The 1988 Sox were ranked ninth in the A.L. in Team ERA. The 2004 Sox are currently ranked ninth, too.

Keep dragging on that crack pipe. Our "core" doesn't suck as bad as 1988...
Come on George,

The 2004 team plays in a bandbox park with a ball that's jumping like a mexican jumping bean. The '88 team was still playing in one of the best pitcher's parks in the league. Ballparks around the league have become smaller since then. Comparing an ERA from the year 2004 to an ERA from 1988 isn't exactly apples and oranges.

All of that aside, you won't agree that our current pitching staff is much better than the '88 staff? Come on! I might agree with you about the offense, but the current staff isn't even close to the garbage we had on the '88 team.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2004, 06:55 PM
Come on! I might agree with you about the offense, but the current staff isn't even close to the garbage we had on the '88 team.
I think you're vastly underestimating how much garbage is on the 2004 White Sox pitching staff. Melido Perez was once considered a young headcase with great stuff. Sound familiar? He had jerry-curl in his hair but never smirked.
:cool:

:jon
"I serve gopher balls for my teammates, not the fans."

hold2dibber
09-13-2004, 09:14 AM
Come on George,

The 2004 team plays in a bandbox park with a ball that's jumping like a mexican jumping bean. The '88 team was still playing in one of the best pitcher's parks in the league. Ballparks around the league have become smaller since then. Comparing an ERA from the year 2004 to an ERA from 1988 isn't exactly apples and oranges.
He didn't compare the '04 ERA to the '88 ERA - he compared the league rank, and that comparison does make sense.

faneidde
09-13-2004, 03:33 PM
Good point. The '88 Sox were followed by a team even worse, the '89 Sox that lost 92 games and spent the entire six months of the season in last place.

The '90 Sox engineered a remarkable comeback (94 wins) but that was with the help of #1 draft pick phenoms Jack McDowell (1987), Robin Ventura (1988), Frank Thomas (1989), and Alex Fernandez (1990). There isn't anything coming up from the Sox minor leagues even remotely as talented as these four players to replace/demote the likes of Jon Garland, Joe Crede, Paul Konerko, and whichever pile of trash Kenny Williams digs up to start on the hill every fifth day.

Our "core" sucks. Finally someone brings up the fact that our minor league system is void of talent. Quick, someone name the last player who came up through the system and didn't suck. Kip Wells had a good year after the Sox gave up on him, but he sucks again, same with all the pitchers we've called up the past 2 years, same with Crede, Harris, and Jon Garland. Maybe Olivo didn't suck, but he wasn't exactly great, so that leaves Rowand as the last guy who didn't suck. The Sox are about to lose Mags, their best player, and are going to replace him with Carl Everett. (teal) :bandance:(teal)
Yes, Jose will be gone, but to be replaced by whom? Maybe Uribe as the everyday SS and Harris at 2B. (teal) :bandance:(teal)
Borchard should play everyday. I can't wait for a season of 200 strikeouts and a .225 batting average. But hey, he hits 500 ft. homers. (teal) :bandance:(teal)
In keeping with the theme of this post, I hate to say it, but the Sox are going to suck next year and for the foreseeable future.

Brian26
09-13-2004, 09:55 PM
Kudos on the attempt to turn the dancing banana teal! Wouldn't that make it just a bit too ripe? :D: