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GASHWOUND
10-05-2001, 10:44 PM
And people want to get rid of this guy for Rowand. Rowand doesn't make that play. Keep Singleton

KempersRS
10-05-2001, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
And people want to get rid of this guy for Rowand. Rowand doesn't make that play. Keep Singleton

:rowand
At least I know how to take a walk.

Tragg
10-05-2001, 10:46 PM
I bet Rowand could do a bit better with runners on 2nd and 3rd and one out than pop up to second.

Singleton's abominable bat is why he belongs off of this team.

DuckSnort
10-05-2001, 10:50 PM
And besides, Mr. Rowand has made a few really nice plays in CF this season, if I'm not mistakin!

Daver
10-05-2001, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
And people want to get rid of this guy for Rowand. Rowand doesn't make that play. Keep Singleton

I want to keep Singleton,Rowand should play left feild.

GASHWOUND
10-05-2001, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I bet Rowand could do a bit better with runners on 2nd and 3rd and one out than pop up to second.

Singleton's abominable bat is why he belongs off of this team.

His bat ain't that bad. He's hittig over .300. He had some clutch hits this year. Overall, he has done a good job.

Tragg
10-05-2001, 11:23 PM
He is a free swinger with no power - that is bad. He refuses to walk, he has no plate discpline and cannot move the ball around.

The problem with this team is that we have 3 starters like him: johnson, clayton and singleton. You don't win world series' with more than 1 of that caliber hitter.

GASHWOUND
10-06-2001, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
He is a free swinger with no power - that is bad. He refuses to walk, he has no plate discpline and cannot move the ball around.

The problem with this team is that we have 3 starters like him: johnson, clayton and singleton. You don't win world series' with more than 1 of that caliber hitter.

Clayton is out next year, so their will only be two. Singleton hits good enough and his most important asset is his DEFENSE. So him hitting in the 7th or 8th(where he'll hit next season) and the #'s he puts up, I think we have enough bullets with Big Frank coming back that we can live with his flaws in exchange for his defense.

Tragg
10-06-2001, 09:11 AM
If clayton is out next year, why the hell is he playing everyday? To up his trade value?

I don't think there's much chance to trade him. His salary's too high, and his offense is too woeful. Maybe, if we pick up most of his paycheck. Otherwise, KW's dreaming.

GASHWOUND
10-06-2001, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
If clayton is out next year, why the hell is he playing everyday? To up his trade value?

I don't think there's much chance to trade him. His salary's too high, and his offense is too woeful. Maybe, if we pick up most of his paycheck. Otherwise, KW's dreaming.

Well, I don't think his offense is woeful. His #'s are average and is good with the glove. KW might have to pick up some of the tab, but I don't think its out of the question. Someone will take him....we did

RichieRichAllen
10-06-2001, 02:15 PM
Hey, do any of you guys who want to ship Clayton and Singleton, the two most solid defensive players we have in key defensive positions ever even think about defense? Or do you think by loading the lineup 1-9 with explosive hitters is the key to a title?

The Sox defense has been abysymal over the past 4 years. Last year, we didn't notice how many games might have been cost due to poor defense because our offense had an exemplary year.

This year, haven't you noticed, without the offense to back us how many games we botched or threw away? Singleton saved the game for us last night with his catch. It was just as good as a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth to me. Not as exciting, but equally effective.

Our defense has been almost last in the league for the past four years. We won, in spite of it, in only one year. Singleton is hitting .300 (so what if he doesn't walk) Bat him seventh. How many teams would love to have a .300 hitter batting seventh for them? Don't finger out Singleton for his OBP.....look at the rest of the club.

As for Royce......helllllllooooooo? The guy sucked the first half, everybody made up their mind he was no good, had a great second half, but he's still no good? I hated him the first half, loved him the second half. How do you guys justify the hate/hate stuff? In light of his recent statements to the press, I'm willing to give him a second chance here. I think he could be a key contributor next year to the club (even if he bats .240).

OK....I'm gonna' cut this short before I write a book.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-06-2001, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by RichieRichAllen
Hey, do any of you guys who want to ship Clayton and Singleton, the two most solid defensive players we have in key defensive positions ever even think about defense? Or do you think by loading the lineup 1-9 with explosive hitters is the key to a title?


Speaking for myself, the key to the title is strong pitching and high run production, driven specifically by hitters getting on base. If I can get solid defense in the process, great. However I would NEVER sacrifice a strong bat in order to beef up the D. It's simply not possible to make up for lost runs with defense, especially in the A.L. where the pitcher never bats.

IMO, Singleton deserves a longer look. He's better than Rowand in the field and I'm not sure he's not at least as good as Rowand at the plate long-term. Let's see if the pitchers figure out Rowand next spring. If Rowand keeps hitting, Singleton rides the pine or gets traded.

As for Clayton, the deal didn't make sense last December and it still doesn't. Sure, move Valentin off SS for Alex Rodriguez, but for Royce Clayton, too??? This deal NEVER made sense. We got exactly what we should have expected for Clayton: a .260 hitter who is useless above the #8 hole in the line up, who doesn't make errors but can't turn double-plays either. He's outta here. (Or at least he ought to be).

czalgosz
10-06-2001, 02:40 PM
Clayton doesn't make as many errors as Valentin, but as Daver pointed out, he doesn't have Valentin's range, either. He's also got a rag arm - he definitely has trouble turning the 4-6-3 double play.

I agree that if a guy is good defensively, you can afford a relative hole in the lineup, but this is the 21st century. The name of the game is offense, as much as I hate to say it. No one can afford to have the bottom third of the order be a chasm any more. If Mark Johnson and Royce Clayton are opening-day starters in 2002, then you have to find someone who's more of a threat than Chris Singleton to bat in front of them. Singleton's a .300 hitter, it's true, but it's an empty .300. He never walks, and he isn't displaying the power that he showed in 1999. He dumps singles everywhere. Which would be fine if he was a better baserunner... Singleton is almost a good ballplayer. He's good enough to warrant attention, but not good enough to play every day. The main reason he had as good a season as he did is that Manuel limited his playing time this season. If Singleton was our 4th outfielder, I'd be happy with him. As opening day centerfielder, he'd leave too much to be desired.

Paulwny
10-06-2001, 03:33 PM
Singleton and Rowand will share cf next year, playing righty- lefty pitching match ups.

CLR01
10-06-2001, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

IMO, Singleton deserves a longer look. He's better than Rowand in the field and I'm not sure he's not at least as good as Rowand at the plate long-term.


I am on my way. Soon i will have everyone converted to Singletonism. First the webmaster, next the world (except Board Guy, he's a Gaints fan).


"We get all the ladies."
:slowswing




"I'm a member"
:messica

FarWestChicago
10-06-2001, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by CLR01

I am on my way. Soon i will have everyone converted to Singletonism. First the webmaster, next the world (except Board Guy, he's a Gaints fan). No, I am a Sox fan. Unlike some people *cough* Fish *cough* I stick to Chicago teams. :)

CLR01
10-06-2001, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
No, I am a Sox fan. Unlike some people *cough* Fish *cough* I stick to Chicago teams. :)



I am not a Marlins fan.

RichieRichAllen
10-06-2001, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Singleton and Rowand will share cf next year, playing righty- lefty pitching match ups.

I think you probably hit it right on the nose, Paul.

On days Rowand starts in CF, I'd like to see him move to left in the later innings and have Singleton brought in as a defensive replacement if we're up by two or three runs.

BTW- I'm curious. What kind of defensive teams have perennial winners like Cleveland, NY, Atlanta, etc. had during their reigns? How do current teams like Seattle, Houston, Arizona stack up?

I know there are some of you out there with better ability to find these stats than I can.

Anybody care to compare?

Tragg
10-06-2001, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by RichieRichAllen
Hey, do any of you guys who want to ship Clayton and Singleton, the two most solid defensive players we have in key defensive positions ever even think about defense? Or do you think by loading the lineup 1-9 with explosive hitters is the key to a title?

.

The Sox defense is terrible. However, Clayton and Singleton are AVERAGE defensive players - if they were great, we wouldn't have the worst (or close) up the middle D in the league. Average defense + below average hitting = disaster.

And, please people, batting average is just about the worst indicator of offensive prowess there is. Look at walks, obp, sp, ability to bunt, and move the ball around. Neither Clayton nor Alomar are skilled at either.

Dump both of them.