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soxtalker
09-09-2004, 09:01 AM
I've seen bits and pieces relating to this on other threads, but let me pose this question. What are the Sox really thinking about Jose for next year?
The Sun Times article yesterday (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep08.html) seemed to indicate that they were considering bringing him back. I don't know how seriously to take Ozzie's statements, as they didn't seem to be very definite. And KW isn't one to signal his intentions. However, Valentin has been getting a lot of playing time lately. Even with Valdez called up, Valentin was in last night. And he was the one player that I thought other teams might want to acquire before the Aug 31 trade (play-off roster) deadline. Are they giving him a good look before making their decision? Or are they simply intending to bring him back (assuming a reduced price tag)?

I'm not really trying to get into a discussion of the merits of Valentin coming back. There have been several of those, and, if I read the WSI sentiment correctly, a lot of fans would like this to be his last year with the team. But it is Ozzie and KW who will be making the decisions that count.

calderon
09-09-2004, 09:20 AM
I can not take this team seriously if the bring Jose back next year, what redeeming quality does he bring to this team?? He is hitting .218, with that average he should be a gold glove caliber firlder, but we all know that is far from the case. He is supposed to be a clubhouse leader, what does he lead? this team has done nothing down the stretch the last 4 years , when it counts the most, when a leader steps up. If Jose is the starting shortstop next year, this team will go nowhere, again. And if he is brought back as a "bench" player, i doubt that Ozzie would sit him long, he would be back starting, the first time the starting SS goes 0-8.

alohafri
09-09-2004, 12:26 PM
Jose could be brought back as a utility player but we need a real shortstop...maybe it will be Valdez.

Gosox1917
09-09-2004, 01:07 PM
I can not take this team seriously if the bring Jose back next year, what redeeming quality does he bring to this team?? He is hitting .218, with that average he should be a gold glove caliber firlder, but we all know that is far from the case. He is supposed to be a clubhouse leader, what does he lead? this team has done nothing down the stretch the last 4 years , when it counts the most, when a leader steps up. If Jose is the starting shortstop next year, this team will go nowhere, again. And if he is brought back as a "bench" player, i doubt that Ozzie would sit him long, he would be back starting, the first time the starting SS goes 0-8.Jose is a great clutch hitter for the Sox and has been for a long time, but your right...it's time to move on and let Jose go. I don't know if Valdez is the answer but he's worth a try...maybe Uribe will be the SS next year. Manage has lot of options.

Soxzilla
09-09-2004, 01:43 PM
If jose wants to sign dirt cheap, I wouldnt mind him being a situational pinch hitter in late innings. Noone on this team is more clutch than he is in the 8th or 9th.

Well, other than the milkman, but he ALWAYS delivered!:smile:

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2004, 02:18 PM
If the Sox and Jose and the Rangers were smart, the Sox would ship Valentin to the Rangers (has he cleared waivers?) for a prospect. Or just let him go to sign with Texas.

Losing Jose and playing Uribe FT at SS would be addition by subtraction for the Sox.

Last night regardless, Jose generally has hit will in Texas. The short RF wall is tailor-made for him. If he signed with Texas next year, he likely would put up career highs HR and RBI totals. Such a deal also would allow the Rangers to trade Soriano elsewhere for pitching, thus allowing Michael Young to move back to his natural and preferred position of 2B.

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2004, 02:20 PM
If jose wants to sign dirt cheap, I wouldnt mind him being a situational pinch hitter in late innings. Noone on this team is more clutch than he is in the 8th or 9th.

Well, other than the milkman, but he ALWAYS delivered!:smile:

That's what the Sox can do! Trade Jose Valentin, who must give way to Uribe, to the Rangers for Herbert Perry, who has no role on a team with Hank Blalock.

cornball
09-10-2004, 05:30 PM
There is no way they will bring back Valentin...that is, if they are serious about winning next year.

soxtalker
09-10-2004, 06:14 PM
There is no way they will bring back Valentin...that is, if they are serious about winning next year.
Then why are they playing him so much?

Tragg
09-10-2004, 06:24 PM
Uribe, Willie and get another infielder somewhere.

Jose's time has come. (to leave)

Some solid plate improvement from Crede would really help this team; I'm in the minority, but I don't want to give up on him, much less give him away, which is what will happen if we trade him.
As it is, he has a higher obp than valentin (still terrible), almost as many rbis despite batting below jose in the order, and will finish with 20+ homers. Glove work from reports is very good. I don't see giving him away for a relief pitcher.

MRKARNO
09-10-2004, 07:06 PM
Jose Valentin has the lowest Batting average and the 3rd lowest OBP of all hitter in the MLB with enough at bats to qualify. No Joe Borchard does not qualify.

cwsox
09-10-2004, 11:08 PM
There is no way they will bring back Valentin...that is, if they are serious about winning next year.
from your mouth to God's ears

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 09:34 AM
Valentin is finished... just like the Two Alomars. If we keep any of them around for 2005, it is only in a reserve role because the youngsters in AA and AAA are even worse options.

The fact the Sox might bring any of these three back only underscores how weak the Sox roster and farm system is up the middle. Our best players all play corner positions, and most of them rate only above-average vs. their counterparts. Meanwhile C, 2B/SS, and CF are gaping holes throughout the Sox organization.

If the Sox are serious about winning in 2005, who will play the positions up the middle? If the answer is Uribe, Harris, Burke, et al, look out be-loooooooooow.

:anon:

balke
09-11-2004, 11:35 AM
.

If the Sox are serious about winning in 2005, who will play the positions up the middle?

If the sox are serious about winning in 2005... They got a lotta work to do. If we didn't have Aaron Rowand on this team... I really couldn't find one positive thing about next year besides having 2 fairly consistant SP. Not lights out starters, consistant.

Franks foot?
RF? timo? Everett?
Rowand
Lee trade bait?
Konerko trade bait?
closer?
Middle relief?
Catchers, can they call games?
3B?
2B?
SS?
Contreres and Garland?
5 spot?

This is what the white sox look like to me.

cornball
09-11-2004, 12:08 PM
Then why are they playing him so much?
I been asking the same question for a long time.

cornball
09-11-2004, 12:13 PM
Valentin is finished... just like the Two Alomars. If we keep any of them around for 2005, it is only in a reserve role because the youngsters in AA and AAA are even worse options.

The fact the Sox might bring any of these three back only underscores how weak the Sox roster and farm system is up the middle. Our best players all play corner positions, and most of them rate only above-average vs. their counterparts. Meanwhile C, 2B/SS, and CF are gaping holes throughout the Sox organization.

If the Sox are serious about winning in 2005, who will play the positions up the middle? If the answer is Uribe, Harris, Burke, et al, look out be-loooooooooow.

:anon:
Exactly!!! Which is why you need addition without subtraction or FREE AGENT SIGNINGS. To this point the trading of prospects has not hurt the club, because for the most part none of them have had impact in the bigs.

However it may have hindered other deals due to lack of depth in the organization. They have to be agressive in the FA market this year. My only hope is the players available will want to play here.

soxtalker
09-11-2004, 09:16 PM
Can someone address the question I posed -- what are the Sox thinking? I agree with the opinion that most of you have stated, which is that next year Jose should either not be on this team or in a much reduced role at a low salary. However, if the Sox also were thinking that way, wouldn't he be sitting on the bench or have been traded in August? But he's playing a lot; he's in the line up again tonight! Please -- I hope I'm missing something.

batmanZoSo
09-11-2004, 09:23 PM
There is no way they will bring back Valentin...that is, if they are serious about winning next year.:KW:
Aaaaand if I'm not?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 09:29 PM
Can someone address the question I posed -- what are the Sox thinking? I agree with the opinion that most of you have stated, which is that next year Jose should either not be on this team or in a much reduced role at a low salary. However, if the Sox also were thinking that way, wouldn't he be sitting on the bench or have been traded in August? But he's playing a lot; he's in the line up again tonight! Please -- I hope I'm missing something.1. The Sox don't have many (any?) options at SS besides Valentin.
2. Crede sucks worse, so Uribe plays 3B instead of SS.
3. The 2004 season is over. Time to find out if Uribe can play 3B -- because we already know Crede can't.
4. Valentin still has a lot of pop in his bat. Without the K's he would still be one of the best shortstops in the league, a notch beneath A-Rod, Nomar, and Jeter. Of course Valentin does K a lot, so he is simply the best of a lousy bunch of options.

Typical White Sox... they have too many roster holes to even begin to explore all the possible answers to the question marks left after the 2004 season has swirled down the drain.

soxtalker
09-11-2004, 10:15 PM
1. The Sox don't have many (any?) options at SS besides Valentin.
2. Crede sucks worse, so Uribe plays 3B instead of SS.
3. The 2004 season is over. Time to find out if Uribe can play 3B -- because we already know Crede can't.
4. Valentin still has a lot of pop in his bat. Without the K's he would still be one of the best shortstops in the league, a notch beneath A-Rod, Nomar, and Jeter. Of course Valentin does K a lot, so he is simply the best of a lousy bunch of options.

Typical White Sox... they have too many roster holes to even begin to explore all the possible answers to the question marks left after the 2004 season has swirled down the drain.
Ah ... nice analysis! I was focusing on Valentin, but it makes a lot more sense if one thinks they might be considering alternatives to Crede. And Crede will probably have some trade value. One more question. Why not play Valdex more? Unless they are trying to evaluate how much Valentine has left, wouldn't it make more sense to give most of his playing time to Valdez?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 10:32 PM
Ah ... nice analysis! I was focusing on Valentin, but it makes a lot more sense if one thinks they might be considering alternatives to Crede. And Crede will probably have some trade value. One more question. Why not play Valdex more? Unless they are trying to evaluate how much Valentine has left, wouldn't it make more sense to give most of his playing time to Valdez?
A 26 year-old who plays just one position and has only 3 major league at-bats in his entire major league career does not constitute a high-probability prospect. He'll get a few chances this month, but I doubt the Sox have any real plans for him -- or expectations from him either.

Valentin is bad. He just isn't as bad as the next-best alternative the lousy Sox organization can muster.
:mad:

basilesox
09-11-2004, 11:03 PM
If the sox are serious about winning in 2005... They got a lotta work to do. If we didn't have Aaron Rowand on this team... I really couldn't find one positive thing about next year besides having 2 fairly consistant SP. Not lights out starters, consistant.

Franks foot?
RF? timo? Everett?
Rowand
Lee trade bait?
Konerko trade bait?
closer?
Middle relief?
Catchers, can they call games?
3B?
2B?
SS?
Contreres and Garland?
5 spot?

This is what the white sox look like to me.
Come on to say that Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko are not good hitters is ludacris.....they both field their position pretty well too.

basilesox
09-11-2004, 11:04 PM
I wouldnt mind seeing Valentin brought back to Platoon and hit only against Righties.

SOXSINCE'70
09-12-2004, 08:58 AM
Then why are they playing him so much?
Hopefully,to showcase him as a future FA.I don't want his .225 hitting curve ball strike out tendencies on this club next year.:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:


:ozzie

"The walks didn't kill our season.July and August did".:angry: :angry: :angry:

Tragg
09-12-2004, 08:59 AM
Valentin is 35 years old, makes $5 million, and has a .284 OBP. Why in the world would we keep this guy?

beck72
09-12-2004, 09:35 AM
The Sox shouldn't bring Jose back even if he offered to play for free. Five years and he's declined each year, esp offensively. A different direction is needed.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2004, 09:35 AM
Valentin is 35 years old, makes $5 million, and has a .284 OBP. Why in the world would we keep this guy?
At this point in his life, Valentin has only one real option for extending his career. He needs to shed 15-20 pounds and give up some of his power for added bat speed. He will not be able to play major league baseball striking out 100+ times.

Naturally he'll need to take less salary, too, but that's another story.

balke
09-12-2004, 07:05 PM
Come on to say that Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko are not good hitters is ludacris.....they both field their position pretty well too.
Not talking about hitting. You couldn't have known, cause I didn't clarify. I have those 2 down as ? cause I have a feeling they are trade bait. One or the other, there are questions as to whether they are coming back. Great hitters. Sox as a whole, pretty good hitters. We could be worse (2nd place ain't as bad as people make it out to be).

Now D, SP, Bullpen? that's a whole different story. This team has a lot of holes to fill, and it's tough to know what's going on next season. Will the injured be able to play? who is our infield? What do we do with Contreres? How many pitchers will we geT? How will we get them?

I see Rowand and possibly Uribe staying put, but what positions? Timo probably stays. Everyone else seems kinda iffy.

batmanZoSo
09-12-2004, 08:15 PM
Valentin is 35 years old, makes $5 million, and has a .284 OBP. Why in the world would we keep this guy?
Exactly, man. That's just horse s###. 284?! That's not good enough for the Major Leagues, I'm sorry. Same with Crede, he of his great .296 on-base average. Why do we keep giving these guys breaks? Really, when you think about it, it's no wonder that we can't overtake the Twins.

balke
09-12-2004, 08:18 PM
Exactly, man. That's just horse s###. 284?! That's not good enough for the Major Leagues, I'm sorry. Same with Crede, he of his great .296 on-base average. Why do we keep giving these guys breaks? Really, when you think about it, it's no wonder that we can't overtake the Twins.
"you only want a million dollars? Sure buddy come on back!"

is likely the only way he's coming. OF course, I thought this last year. :mad:

gosox41
09-13-2004, 09:49 AM
Can someone address the question I posed -- what are the Sox thinking? I agree with the opinion that most of you have stated, which is that next year Jose should either not be on this team or in a much reduced role at a low salary. However, if the Sox also were thinking that way, wouldn't he be sitting on the bench or have been traded in August? But he's playing a lot; he's in the line up again tonight! Please -- I hope I'm missing something.

You're not missing a thing. It's typical White Sox managment.


But rest asssured that Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams know a ton more then we do.


Bob

gosox41
09-13-2004, 09:51 AM
Valentin is 35 years old, makes $5 million, and has a .284 OBP. Why in the world would we keep this guy?
Cue voiceover:


Because 'This is White Sox Baseball!!'


Bob