PDA

View Full Version : What were the Pirates thinking when they gave away Ramirez?


CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 09:25 AM
This trade/theft that Hendry pulled off might go down as the steal of the decade. Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez is basically what this trade was. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?:?: Ramirez might be in the top 5 as far as the best third baseman in the game. I'm still amazed at this trade.

thepaulbowski
09-07-2004, 09:27 AM
This trade/theft that Hendry pulled off might go down as the steal of the decade. Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez is basically what this trade was. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?:?: Ramirez might be in the top 5 as far as the best third baseman in the game. I'm still amazed at this trade.
That they wouldn't pay him so might as well get something for him.

CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 09:30 AM
That they wouldn't pay him so might as well get something for him.
Bobby Hill would not be my idea of getting quality for a player like Ramirez.

samram
09-07-2004, 09:46 AM
I think Ramirez had a reputation for being lazy while in Pittsburgh, although it certainly hasn't shown since he went to the Cubs. I think there are a lot of guys who give more effort when the team is winning (of course, part of the winning is their effort). Beltran was having a down year with KC and even Houston, but now he has turned it up as they have started to play much better. I think Kenny Lofton is the same way.

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 09:55 AM
This trade/theft that Hendry pulled off might go down as the steal of the decade. Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez is basically what this trade was. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?:?: Ramirez might be in the top 5 as far as the best third baseman in the game. I'm still amazed at this trade.


I said that the Moment the "trade" was pulled off. Thats why Pittsburgh is ALWAYS going to be a Bogus Franchise. Note how the Indians make trades and GET EXCELLENT QUALITY MINOR LEAGUERS IN RETURN, not bust players who already failed once. I always thought that if there were a Commissioner, this trade wouldnt have gone down ......

CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 09:58 AM
I said that the Moment the "trade" was pulled off. Thats why Pittsburgh is ALWAYS going to be a Bogus Franchise. Note how the Indians make trades and GET EXCELLENT QUALITY MINOR LEAGUERS IN RETURN, not bust players who already failed once. I always thought that if there were a Commissioner, this trade wouldnt have gone down ......
This was not a trade, this was THEFT in every sense of the word. Ramirez is a 35 HR 115 RBI corner player. Mind boggling the Pirates let this happen.

jeremyb1
09-07-2004, 11:02 AM
No one really was too sure that he was a top five 3B. If you checked the archives from when the deal was made I'm guessing that would be coroborated. He was dissapointing for a number of seasons before breaking out in '02 and then had another dissapointing season last year. He's never hit with this power or average before and without hitting well over .300 his value isn't immense since he doesn't walk.

Again, this thread shows some lack of understanding of MLB finances. You can have a guy that's a good player for you and wins you games but still doesn't justify the salary. IE if ARod is the best player in baseball and makes 60 million a season and your payroll is 62 million and you then have to fill in the rest of the lineup with poor players at the minimum, ARod is still a great player and you still want him on your team but that has nothing to do with the situation at a point. If a player makes more money that he's worth then no matter how good he is, he's hurting your team.

Flight #24
09-07-2004, 11:10 AM
Again, this thread shows some lack of understanding of MLB finances. You can have a guy that's a good player for you and wins you games but still doesn't justify the salary. IE if ARod is the best player in baseball and makes 60 million a season and your payroll is 62 million and you then have to fill in the rest of the lineup with poor players at the minimum, ARod is still a great player and you still want him on your team but that has nothing to do with the situation at a point. If a player makes more money that he's worth then no matter how good he is, he's hurting your team.
I dont' think that the point is that they shouldn't have traded him, it's that they shouldn't have traded him for little to nothing. In your analogy, if ARod is making 60mil and your payroll is 62mil, you'd still better get a lot more than Bobby Hill for him in a trade....

CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 11:11 AM
He has never hit for power before? Last year was dissapointing? He hit 27 homeruns last year and knocked in 106 . In 2001, he hit 34 dongs and had over 112 RBI.:?: This year he is hitting .320 and is on pace for 35 HR and 108 RBI despite missing 3 weeks due to injuries. Sorry, I don't understand the Pirates getting literally held up by Hendry on this one.

This is the classic "stick em up and give me all your money" type of robbery.

gosox41
09-07-2004, 12:14 PM
I said that the Moment the "trade" was pulled off. Thats why Pittsburgh is ALWAYS going to be a Bogus Franchise. Note how the Indians make trades and GET EXCELLENT QUALITY MINOR LEAGUERS IN RETURN, not bust players who already failed once. I always thought that if there were a Commissioner, this trade wouldnt have gone down ......
I agree that Pittsburgh is a joke. Funny how that joke was able to bilk KW out of 3 pitchers for the great Todd Ritchie.


Says a lot about Williams, IMHO.


Bob

thepaulbowski
09-07-2004, 12:46 PM
I said that the Moment the "trade" was pulled off. Thats why Pittsburgh is ALWAYS going to be a Bogus Franchise. Note how the Indians make trades and GET EXCELLENT QUALITY MINOR LEAGUERS IN RETURN, not bust players who already failed once. I always thought that if there were a Commissioner, this trade wouldnt have gone down ......
Selig should have said "no"? I disagree with that. If the Pirates want to make a bad trade let the Pirates make a bad trade. If the Pirates want to be a joke, let the Pirates be a joke.

thepaulbowski
09-07-2004, 12:48 PM
I dont' think that the point is that they shouldn't have traded him, it's that they shouldn't have traded him for little to nothing. In your analogy, if ARod is making 60mil and your payroll is 62mil, you'd still better get a lot more than Bobby Hill for him in a trade....
Wasn't he going into a contract and/or arbitration eligible year? I think that is what pushed them on this.

kittle42
09-07-2004, 12:58 PM
I agree that Pittsburgh is a joke. Funny how that joke was able to bilk KW out of 3 pitchers for the great Todd Ritchie.


Says a lot about Williams, IMHO.


Bob
Here we go again...

GiveMeSox
09-07-2004, 01:33 PM
This trade/theft that Hendry pulled off might go down as the steal of the decade. Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez is basically what this trade was. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?:?: Ramirez might be in the top 5 as far as the best third baseman in the game. I'm still amazed at this trade.
I have said this a million times. Jim Hendry is bad for the game. He is a more agressive Brian Cashman. Both guys have basically unlimited budgets and "help lower payroll teams by giving them crap for bigtime payroll stars". Jim Hendry loves to sit and wait for a team to slash payroll or sit and wait for a team and its star to have problems with the manamgement then swoop on in and offer a package of crap minor leaguers and "could be good" in 5 years for high prices proven stars (Nomar, Ramirez, D Lee). This should be looked down upon, not praised. I still find it unbeleivable the pirates shipped him to an inner divison rival in the cubs for Bobby Hill. Ramirez was a rising star, once prospect, and yeah his salary was escalting, but he produced. But i guess the key word is "salary escalting" so the pirates had to get rid of him to evil emipire so they can give him even more money. Sounds a lot like the yankees.

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 01:34 PM
Selig should have said "no"? I disagree with that. If the Pirates want to make a bad trade let the Pirates make a bad trade. If the Pirates want to be a joke, let the Pirates be a joke.
well, luckily, the SOX didnt just "trade" Magglio for Joe Schmoe simply
to unldd the salary ............ I cant see trades like this being
good for baseball. I cant see it ..........

santo=dorf
09-07-2004, 01:38 PM
I agree that Pittsburgh is a joke. Funny how that joke was able to bilk KW out of 3 pitchers for the great Todd Ritchie.


Says a lot about Williams, IMHO.


Bob
For the last time.
http://www.addictsports.com/baseball/archive/index.php/t-13330.html

Williams said he appreciated Schueler's assistance, particularly when Williams was farm director.

"Absolutely, Schu helped me,'' Williams said. "We worked closely together then while showing me a great amount of what goes into scouting, and then again in the offseason as general manager. He was right in the middle of preparation for the '02 season.''

Schueler outlined his concerns to Reinsdorf after deciding to move up his departure date before the end of October. He stressed the importance of background checks on players under consideration to be acquired who either have character flaws or have seen better days.

He excluded pitcher Todd Ritchie, who was acquired by Williams last winter from the Pirates in the controversial deal that sent Kip Wells, Josh Fogg and Sean Lowe to Pittsburgh."I was behind that trade,'' Schueler said, "although I didn't feel it was necessary for us to give them the kid [Fogg]. We felt we could straighten out Todd's mechanics, but it didn't happen. I still think he can be a good pitcher.''

What about the Damaso Marte deal?

CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 01:40 PM
I just have this picture in my mind of Hendry in a stocking mask and his hand in his jacket saying he has a gun. He then says "stick em up". Am I going too far by saying that?

santo=dorf
09-07-2004, 01:45 PM
I just have this picture in my mind of Hendry in a stocking mask and his hand in his jacket saying he has a gun. He then says "stick em up". Am I going too far by saying that?
Right idea, wrong guy.

:tool

"Give all of your quality players to the Cubs. They are the greatest and most historic franchise in the MLB. In fact, I'm moving 7 more teams into the NL Central just to they can be rivals with the Cubs."

CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 01:50 PM
Right idea, wrong guy.

:tool

"Give all of your quality players to the Cubs. They are the greatest and most historic franchise in the MLB. In fact, I'm moving 7 more teams into the NL Central just to they can be rivals with the Cubs.":boston (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=15#)
" I agree with Selig. The Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox must be allowed to steal the best players. This is very good for the game".

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 02:03 PM
Selig should have said "no"? I disagree with that. If the Pirates want to make a bad trade let the Pirates make a bad trade. If the Pirates want to be a joke, let the Pirates be a joke.
Didnt Commissioner Bowie Kuhn Put the Hammer down on the Oakland A's
for trying to unload 3 players for Nothing back in the 70's? Note how
I said "commissioner". There isnt one now, and look at all the nonsense
that has happened since then? Another near strike (and all they could settle on, was the minimum 4 yr agreement, basically saying they'll fight about this in 3 more years) a blown All-Star Game, The Steroids Scandal, Ill Advised Expansion, Expansion team "Demanding" to be placed in the NL, despite the fact that it was the AL's turn to receive 2 teams subsequently Leading to The Commissioner "offerering" to move his team to the NL, The Commissioner Cooking his teams Books, Botched Attemp at Folding 2 teams (despite fact they just expanded a couple yrs earlier!), Committed grave conflict of interest by "tipping" his pal and fellow mlb owner, the TWINS about the upcoming COntraction, subsequently leading to the Twins letting a Certain Messiah "fall" into the laps of the cubs, Commissioners foolish assertion that all teams must have new stadiums, or they cant "compete" never mind that new stadiums arent what makes teams "compete" but Revenue sharing (real), Commissioner knowing full well hurricane was coming and not Preemptively scheduling Marlins to play in Chicago, instead
cancelling the games, thus further influencing the outcome of a Pennant Race (in which BOTH teams have a stake) ............
Make no mistake ............ No Commissioner is HURTING baseball ..........

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 02:06 PM
What about the Damaso Marte deal?
The Pirates were about to RELEASE Damaso Marte, and Todd Ritchie (one good thing about the "trade") told them that he thought he was a Very good Prospect and that they should try to Trade for him.

CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 02:09 PM
:tool

"We were not notified of any impending hurricane. We also feel that giving the Cubs the extra home game is good for baseball, as it will almost guarantee a post season birth for the Cubs. I keep hearing a cha-ching sound in my ears".

santo=dorf
09-07-2004, 02:35 PM
The Pirates were about to RELEASE Damaso Marte, and Todd Ritchie (one good thing about the "trade") told them that he thought he was a Very good Prospect and that they should try to Trade for him.
So you're telling me there was something positive that came from the Ritchie deal?

thepaulbowski
09-07-2004, 02:44 PM
Didnt Commissioner Bowie Kuhn Put the Hammer down on the Oakland A's
for trying to unload 3 players for Nothing back in the 70's? Note how
I said "commissioner". There isnt one now, and look at all the nonsense
that has happened since then? Another near strike (and all they could settle on, was the minimum 4 yr agreement, basically saying they'll fight about this in 3 more years) a blown All-Star Game, The Steroids Scandal, Ill Advised Expansion, Expansion team "Demanding" to be placed in the NL, despite the fact that it was the AL's turn to receive 2 teams subsequently Leading to The Commissioner "offerering" to move his team to the NL, The Commissioner Cooking his teams Books, Botched Attemp at Folding 2 teams (despite fact they just expanded a couple yrs earlier!), Committed grave conflict of interest by "tipping" his pal and fellow mlb owner, the TWINS about the upcoming COntraction, subsequently leading to the Twins letting a Certain Messiah "fall" into the laps of the cubs, Commissioners foolish assertion that all teams must have new stadiums, or they cant "compete" never mind that new stadiums arent what makes teams "compete" but Revenue sharing (real), Commissioner knowing full well hurricane was coming and not Preemptively scheduling Marlins to play in Chicago, instead
cancelling the games, thus further influencing the outcome of a Pennant Race (in which BOTH teams have a stake) ............
Make no mistake ............ No Commissioner is HURTING baseball ..........
This sounds like somebody's rant about KW....can't do anything right.

If a team wants to trade one player for another they should be allowed to do it. This wasn't unloading one player for nothing. Bobby Hill is not equal to Ramirez, but he isn't nothing. Compare apples to apples, they didn't trade Ramirez for cash or a bag of baseballs. They got a player with ML experience who made less money, Period. It's called a salary dump, since you are a Sox fan you should be familar with this.

thepaulbowski
09-07-2004, 02:45 PM
No Commissioner is HURTING baseball ..........
Apparantly every owner in Major League baseball disagrees with you. He was asked to serve as commissioner for a few more years by a unanimous vote.

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 02:49 PM
Didnt Commissioner Bowie Kuhn Put the Hammer down on the Oakland A's
for trying to unload 3 players for Nothing back in the 70's? Note how
I said "commissioner". There isnt one now, and look at all the nonsense
that has happened since then? Another near strike (and all they could settle on, was the minimum 4 yr agreement, basically saying they'll fight about this in 3 more years) a blown All-Star Game, The Steroids Scandal, Ill Advised Expansion, Expansion team "Demanding" to be placed in the NL, despite the fact that it was the AL's turn to receive 2 teams subsequently Leading to The Commissioner "offerering" to move his team to the NL, The Commissioner Cooking his teams Books, Botched Attemp at Folding 2 teams (despite fact they just expanded a couple yrs earlier!), Committed grave conflict of interest by "tipping" his pal and fellow mlb owner, the TWINS about the upcoming COntraction, subsequently leading to the Twins letting a Certain Messiah "fall" into the laps of the cubs, Commissioners foolish assertion that all teams must have new stadiums, or they cant "compete" never mind that new stadiums arent what makes teams "compete" but Revenue sharing (real), Commissioner knowing full well hurricane was coming and not Preemptively scheduling Marlins to play in Chicago, instead
cancelling the games, thus further influencing the outcome of a Pennant Race (in which BOTH teams have a stake) ............
Make no mistake ............ No Commissioner is HURTING baseball ..........
On top of all that .......... as if we couldnt put anything else on this Flaming Pile of _______, the commissioner allows a certain mlb owner to cry poor and that he cant afford his team any longer, leaving his franchise dead on the highway with the proverbial Hood up and flashers on, THEN buying yet another MLB franchise in south florida. The owners of the south florida franchise, who also were crying poor, guts their team, packs up and buys a team in Boston, despite having the OUTBID by another person ........
To this day, the abondoned-on-the-highway Expos STILL have no owner.

Yeah .............. just think, FOX put out a Fluffy special recently on the state of the game, and What a GREAT JOB Pud Selig is doing .........
total BS. Can you Imagine how Angry I was watching that BS last year?

CWWTWS1
09-07-2004, 02:52 PM
They got a player with ML experience who made less money, Period. It's called a salary dump, since you are a Sox fan you should be familar with this.
You can call it a salary dump, but I will also call it a big time hose job by Hendry. I don't think littlefield(Pirates GM) has dried off yet he was hosed so bad.

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 02:52 PM
Apparantly every owner in Major League baseball disagrees with you. He was asked to serve as commissioner for a few more years by a unanimous vote.They sure did didnt they. Yessiree Melba, they sure did
And if dont think MLB is being run by a cartel of about 8 owners ............

Mohoney
09-08-2004, 07:37 PM
I agree that Pittsburgh is a joke. Funny how that joke was able to bilk KW out of 3 pitchers for the great Todd Ritchie.


Says a lot about Williams, IMHO.


Bob
3 pitchers that none of us should even fret losing.

Has any one of these pitchers done anything of note?