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White Sox>Cubs
09-06-2004, 10:48 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/minors/top50.jsp?content=1
I like it that the Yankees have higher prospects than we do:bandance:

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-06-2004, 10:58 PM
hehe "DELMON YOUNG" looks hilarious. anywho welcome aboard! nice name lol :cool:

santo=dorf
09-06-2004, 11:04 PM
I didn't see a single Sox prospect. :(:

White Sox>Cubs
09-06-2004, 11:09 PM
Yeah, that's the problem.:mad: And thanks CubsfansareDRUNK.:smile:

Wealz
09-06-2004, 11:21 PM
Borchard must be 51 or 52 . . .

StepsInSC
09-06-2004, 11:24 PM
Borchard must be 51 or 52 . . .
You forgot the teal, right?

santo=dorf
09-06-2004, 11:29 PM
You forgot the teal, right?Wealz never says anything positive about any Sox prospect. It was so sarcastic that it didn't need teal.

Wealz
09-07-2004, 12:40 AM
Wealz never says anything positive about any Sox prospect. It was so sarcastic that it didn't need teal.
At this point in time there's precious little in the farm system to be positive about. Josh Fields (Winston-Salem) and McCarthey are worth noting, and maybe guys like Rogowski, LaMura, and Spidale are as well, but the rest . . . .

Anderson has stalled at Birmingham, but that could be because he was sick for a bit.

I just can't put a happy face on the state of our minor league system right now.

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 04:10 PM
Notice how the Cubs TOP PROSPECTS werent given to the Pirates?
Notice how the Pirates have only 1 player in the top 50? As if they could
"afford" to just give their players away for Nothing. The Pirates are going
to suck for years to come ....... getting NOTHING for Ramirez, Lofton and Simon is going to hurt them something Fierce.
Im still sick we
couldnt keep Jeremy Reed ............

Jerome
09-07-2004, 04:23 PM
I'm speechless. Not one in the top 50. Besides Reed, we had no one. (I'd rather have Freddy anyway.) If I was JR, I'd show this to KW and ask some serious questions. A team with a payroll such as ours does not win without some home grown talent. Blanton hurts the most because I know we had a chance and KW took Royce Ring instead.

I wonder when our scouting system will be given a complete overhaul. Possibly to moneyball philosophy?

Jerome
09-07-2004, 04:24 PM
I just can't put a happy face on the state of our minor league system right now.


Don't worry. Hawk will be happy to do it for you.

Randar68
09-07-2004, 04:39 PM
I'm speechless. Not one in the top 50. Besides Reed, we had no one. (I'd rather have Freddy anyway.) If I was JR, I'd show this to KW and ask some serious questions. A team with a payroll such as ours does not win without some home grown talent. Blanton hurts the most because I know we had a chance and KW took Royce Ring instead.

I wonder when our scouting system will be given a complete overhaul. Possibly to moneyball philosophy?
*****. Yeah. Moneyball. The obsession of the ignorant continues.

Hangar18
09-07-2004, 04:40 PM
Blanton hurts the most because I know we had a chance and KW took Royce Ring instead.

I wonder when our scouting system will be given a complete overhaul. Possibly to moneyball philosophy?
I was gonna ask the SAME QUESTION !!! So Blanton was the guy KW got Duped with by Billy Bean? wow .......... that looks bad

Randar68
09-07-2004, 04:41 PM
At this point in time there's precious little in the farm system to be positive about. Josh Fields (Winston-Salem) and McCarthey are worth noting, and maybe guys like Rogowski, LaMura, and Spidale are as well, but the rest . . . .

Anderson has stalled at Birmingham, but that could be because he was sick for a bit.

I just can't put a happy face on the state of our minor league system right now.Anderson is rumored to have been slowed by hernia, which is also rumored to need season ending surgery. And right after you dissed Lucy, he had 4 hits in 2 nights. Whisler pitching well in W-S...

Man, every time you open your virtual mouth about these guys, you look like an even bigger ass...

Carry on.

:chickenlittle

Randar68
09-07-2004, 04:42 PM
I was gonna ask the SAME QUESTION !!! So Blanton was the guy KW got Duped with by Billy Bean? wow .......... that looks badIf he wanted him, he still would have drafted him. He was there when the Sox picked.

Going by one side of the story and by an observer with only one half of the conversation, we can always come to such concrete conclusions, can't we?

Tekijawa
09-07-2004, 04:51 PM
I don't know if you guys know this or not, but John Rauch, Borchard, Scott Rufcorn, Etc... Were all rated in this list at one time... My guess is that Albert Pujols, Aaron Rowand, and Many other VERY decent players never made the list. I also wouldn't be supprised if less than 10 of these guys ever make it to Major League roster!

Wealz
09-07-2004, 05:38 PM
Anderson is rumored to have been slowed by hernia, which is also rumored to need season ending surgery. And right after you dissed Lucy, he had 4 hits in 2 nights. Whisler pitching well in W-S...

Man, every time you open your virtual mouth about these guys, you look like an even bigger ass...

Carry on.
How flimsy of an argument do you have if you have to point to Lucy's last couple of games? Besides, what's the old adage about throwing stones . . . Rowand couldn't carry Borchard's jock today, remember? Talk about a credibillity hit.

Randar68
09-07-2004, 05:43 PM
How flimsy of an argument do you have if you have to point to Lucy's last couple of games? Besides, what's the old adage about throwing stones . . . Rowand couldn't carry Borchard's jock today, remember? Talk about a credibillity hit.
LOL! At least you have one thing to hang your hat on. When you comment on hundreds of players per year, you're bound to be wrong a good number as well.

Congratulations. Someone with zero contribution to any discussion worth having and nothing but bitching upon bitching calling someone out for actually making steadfast comments.

moron.

doublem23
09-08-2004, 12:21 AM
I just can't put a happy face on the state of our minor league system right now.
Who gives a rat's ass? I could care less if the Sox never had another "Top 50" prospect and every team in the system lost 130 games a year. Sorry to all the people in Charlotte, Birmingham, Winston-Salem, Kannapolis, etc., but your teams mean nothing to me. All I care about is the state of the MLB team. And honestly, that roster is a handful of good moves away from being pretty solid.

SomebodyToldMe
09-08-2004, 12:46 AM
Who gives a rat's ass? I could care less if the Sox never had another "Top 50" prospect and every team in the system lost 130 games a year. Sorry to all the people in Charlotte, Birmingham, Winston-Salem, Kannapolis, etc., but your teams mean nothing to me. All I care about is the state of the MLB team. And honestly, that roster is a handful of good moves away from being pretty solid.
Agreed

:bandance: :bandance:

:gulp: :gulp:

mdep524
09-08-2004, 01:33 AM
All I care about is the state of the MLB team. And honestly, that roster is a handful of good moves away from being pretty solid.See, I agree the Sox are "a handful of good moves away from being solid," but that doesn't separate them from anyone in the AL. I mean, how many AL teams don't qualify for that? I'd say Seattle, Kansas City and maybe Detroit. Every other team is "a handful of good moves" away. So the Sox have no comparative advantage over anyone else. It's up to KW and JR to make those solid moves before other teams do. That makes me nervous.

jeremyb1
09-08-2004, 02:14 AM
I don't know if you guys know this or not, but John Rauch, Borchard, Scott Rufcorn, Etc... Were all rated in this list at one time... My guess is that Albert Pujols, Aaron Rowand, and Many other VERY decent players never made the list. I also wouldn't be supprised if less than 10 of these guys ever make it to Major League roster!

Well Rauch sufferend an injury that destroys the career of most pitchers. The fact that he's still made it to the majors is remarkable in my opinion. I'm not a huge Borchard fan but he hasn't had a ton of at bats yet. With Borchard and Ruffcorn, just because past prospects haven't become starts doesn't mean all or most don't. Sure being on the list is no sure thing but does anyone argue that it is? Any way you cut it BJ Upton has a better chance of being a star than Brian Anderson. Just because that's not guaranteed to happen doesn't mean it's a coin flip. Also, I think that close to ten of them probably already are on a MLB roster for September callups.

doublem23
09-08-2004, 02:49 AM
It's up to KW and JR to make those solid moves before other teams do. That makes me nervous.
Oh, I agree wholly. My point is that it's silly to fuss and whine over the fate of the Knights or Barons and bemoan because the 2010 White Sox lineup won't be homegrown. I'll worry about the 2005 White Sox, thank you very much and the farm system will have little to do with that team's success or failure. Ergo, who gives a rat's ass?

:bandance:

owensmouth
09-08-2004, 07:02 AM
The total collapse of the White Sox minor league system is probably the number one reason why our general manager should be shown the door. And yes, the general manager is responsible for the minor league (along with the major league) teams.

gosox41
09-08-2004, 10:20 AM
I'm speechless. Not one in the top 50. Besides Reed, we had no one. (I'd rather have Freddy anyway.) If I was JR, I'd show this to KW and ask some serious questions. A team with a payroll such as ours does not win without some home grown talent. Blanton hurts the most because I know we had a chance and KW took Royce Ring instead.

I wonder when our scouting system will be given a complete overhaul. Possibly to moneyball philosophy?
You just don't understand how hard it is to build a farm system. It's a crapshoot and there's no skill involve. What matters are players with all the tools to be great overall athletes.

Moneyball is a good option comapred to what we have. It's not the only option and it may not be the best. But it is better then what we have now.

I can't wait to see all the Friends of Kenny (FOK's) come out and defend him. After all Moneyball hasn't won a playoff series for the A's. And you can bet the minute the A's don't make the playoffs the FOK's will be out in force mocking Beane. Never mind 4 (and possibly 5) appearances in a row. Never mind that the average team (not the Yanks) has a 6 year window of opportunity to try to win. Never mind that KW hasn't made the playoffs even onceand has had zero minor league prospects make a positive impact on the major league team in his 4 years as GM.

I'd much rather be where we are now, 8 games out, then make the playoffs 4 years in a row.


Bob

gosox41
09-08-2004, 10:22 AM
If he wanted him, he still would have drafted him. He was there when the Sox picked.

Going by one side of the story and by an observer with only one half of the conversation, we can always come to such concrete conclusions, can't we?
So what was the other half of the conversation. What do you know about that draft.

I've heard some things, but nothing too concrete.



Bob

Randar68
09-08-2004, 12:52 PM
So what was the other half of the conversation. What do you know about that draft.

I've heard some things, but nothing too concrete.



Bob
1) Signability for Blanton was not a major concern
2) If KW was as enamored with him as Lewis contended/insinuated, he would have drafted him when he had the chance
3) pre-draft deals are broken or ignored regularly by teams who have unexpected players fall to them.

All of those facts dismiss the "buffoon" face that Lewis tries to paint on Williams based on only half of the conversation.

Randar68
09-08-2004, 12:54 PM
Never mind that KW hasn't made the playoffs even onceand has had zero minor league prospects make a positive impact on the major league team in his 4 years as GM.




For a Fan of Crash, you seem to be selling him short. Crede made an impact last year, although this year he's been totally lost at the plate...

Nevermind the fact that he has traded away most of his high level prospects trying to win on the cheap. Nevermind the fact that HIS prospects are still generally a couple years from the majors, in the normal development cycle of minor league players.

maurice
09-08-2004, 02:20 PM
Somebody mentioned the record of Sox minor-league teams. Three of them are in the playoffs right now:
- Birmingham (AA) won its divison by 4.5 games
- Winston-Salem (high A) finished with the best record in its league
- Great Falls (R) finished with the best record in its league

gosox41
09-08-2004, 03:16 PM
For a Fan of Crash, you seem to be selling him short. Crede made an impact last year, although this year he's been totally lost at the plate...

Nevermind the fact that he has traded away most of his high level prospects trying to win on the cheap. Nevermind the fact that HIS prospects are still generally a couple years from the majors, in the normal development cycle of minor league players.
I meant players that KW drafted and developed. Rowand and Crede were both drafted by Schu.

As for high level prospects, who did he trade? Reed and Rauch were the 2 best of what was moved. And only Reed was drafted by KW. I don't mind losing the rest as much. I guess some of the confusion is that just because a prospect is ranked highly in the Sox system doesn't mean they're ranked highly when compared to other prospects around baseball. Reed is going to be a good one. It's a shame to lose him but KW was forced into trading for a solid starting pitcher since he hasn't even been able to draft and develop a guy who can simple eat innings as a fifth starter.

As for minor leaguers being a couple of years away, I heard that the last 2 years. Forgetting about the 2000 draft which KW supposedly ran, shouldn't guys from the 2001 and maybe even the 2002 drafts begin to distinguish themselves as top prospects by now? The 2001 draftees are finishing their 4th year of minor league ball. I would assume that some of these guys would start to stand out by now in the upper minors. And assuming those 2001 draftees are still a couple of years away, that means it will take them about 5-6 years to reach the majors. It seems like a long time to wait. Does this mean that guys like Sweeney and Anderson will be ready for major league baseball in 2008 or 2009?

It's a long time to wait. I bet they're given a shot before that assuming they continue to progress through the system.


Bob

gosox41
09-08-2004, 03:22 PM
1) Signability for Blanton was not a major concern
2) If KW was as enamored with him as Lewis contended/insinuated, he would have drafted him when he had the chance
3) pre-draft deals are broken or ignored regularly by teams who have unexpected players fall to them.

All of those facts dismiss the "buffoon" face that Lewis tries to paint on Williams based on only half of the conversation.
I don't know much about Blanton's signability, though if the A's could afford him the Sox probably could too. But why would Lewis bring up that whole conversation to begin with? I don't think he made it up, but I guess we'll never know. Lastly, maybe KW wants to talk the talk and realizes that if he made a deal he'd look awfully foolish to back out on it.

As for KW looking like a 'buffoon', he doesn't need Michael Lewis's help.


Bob

Randar68
09-08-2004, 03:24 PM
I meant players that KW drafted and developed. Rowand and Crede were both drafted by Schu.

As for high level prospects, who did he trade? Reed and Rauch were the 2 best of what was moved. And only Reed was drafted by KW. I don't mind losing the rest as much. I guess some of the confusion is that just because a prospect is ranked highly in the Sox system doesn't mean they're ranked highly when compared to other prospects around baseball. Reed is going to be a good one. It's a shame to lose him but KW was forced into trading for a solid starting pitcher since he hasn't even been able to draft and develop a guy who can simple eat innings as a fifth starter.

As for minor leaguers being a couple of years away, I heard that the last 2 years. Forgetting about the 2000 draft which KW supposedly ran, shouldn't guys from the 2001 and maybe even the 2002 drafts begin to distinguish themselves as top prospects by now? The 2001 draftees are finishing their 4th year of minor league ball. I would assume that some of these guys would start to stand out by now in the upper minors. And assuming those 2001 draftees are still a couple of years away, that means it will take them about 5-6 years to reach the majors. It seems like a long time to wait. Does this mean that guys like Sweeney and Anderson will be ready for major league baseball in 2008 or 2009?

It's a long time to wait. I bet they're given a shot before that assuming they continue to progress through the system.

4 years is too short to draft and develop just about ANY pitcher, college or HS. That is my point in your silly droning on about his inability to draft and/or develop a competent starting pitcher in just 3-4 draft-years.

Randar68
09-08-2004, 03:25 PM
As for KW looking like a 'buffoon', he doesn't need Michael Lewis's help.

You're right. He has you here just making **** up.

gosox41
09-09-2004, 08:15 AM
4 years is too short to draft and develop just about ANY pitcher, college or HS. That is my point in your silly droning on about his inability to draft and/or develop a competent starting pitcher in just 3-4 draft-years.
And what about position players? Who has he drafted and developed that is making a positive impact on the White Sox.


Bob

gosox41
09-09-2004, 08:17 AM
You're right. He has you here just making **** up.

KW has the last 4 years of having the Sox be an average team in the weakest division in baseball to help him look bad.

I don't need to make things up, the results of this team speak for themselves. The biggest measuring stick is wins and losses, but they're are certainly enough others to make KW look bad.



Bob