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View Full Version : Is Timo the most underrated Player?


bartmanisgod
09-05-2004, 04:45 PM
Timo is a true grinder! He's a player I truely enjoy watching and I hope he is back next year. I don't think that he is an everyday player, but I could feel comfortable with him in right field if we signed a solid shortstop (Renteria) and sent Crede somewhere for a solid SP moving Uribe to 3B.

nitetrain8601
09-05-2004, 04:57 PM
Timo is a true grinder! He's a player I truely enjoy watching and I hope he is back next year. I don't think that he is an everyday player, but I could feel comfortable with him in right field if we signed a solid shortstop (Renteria) and sent Crede somewhere for a solid SP moving Uribe to 3B.
Sounds like a plan. I actually wouldn't mind Timo in right for a year. We could see what he could do, wait until Alex Escobar does in the minors and majors next year(see if he reaches closer to his potential) and go from there. I think Timo is solid at RF.

SoxFan76
09-05-2004, 05:07 PM
Timo is quickly becoming my 2nd favorite White Sox player. Now he doesn't need to start everyday, but even if he did I would be comfortable with that. He just plays solid baseball.

balboner
09-05-2004, 05:10 PM
Sorry, but the idea of having a RF with an OPS of .647 doesnt exactly entice me. Under no circumstances should Timo be given the starting job in RF. He's a bad defensive player (no range) and is a liability against lhp. If the Sox want to keep him, let him be a 4th OF/pinch hitter.

Tragg
09-05-2004, 05:14 PM
What's Renteria's salary?

The problem with trading Garland and Crede is that they are at the bottom of their value and we won't get much in return.


Perez has an OBP BELOW .300 this year and has 5 homers----he's marginal for a bench bat (i would hope we could find a better one than he for next year), much less replacing Ordonez

But if we're serious about "small ball", we'll go out and sign Carlos Beltran.

AddisonStSox
09-05-2004, 05:17 PM
Timo is a nice treat off the bench...that is all he is, that is all he will ever be. In no way, shape, or form, should he be our starting RF.

mmmmmbeeer
09-05-2004, 07:43 PM
Perez has an OBP BELOW .300 this year and has 5 homers----he's marginal for a bench bat (i would hope we could find a better one than he for next year), much less replacing Ordonez.
Exactly why he shouldn't be a starter. But, he's an awesome bench player and certainly thrives in clutch situations. I'll take a bench player who hits over .400 with RISP before I'd take a bench guy who has an OBP over .400 .

bafiarocks03
09-05-2004, 07:54 PM
Yes! Because Timo is an awesome right fielder! and since Magglio probly won't be back! i would love have Timo in Right! and not Boarchard! lets get rid of him!! and as long as we still have Paul at 1st and Willie at 2nd and someone at SS and Juan at Third! or we can still have Crede at 3rd and Juan at SS!:D:

Soxzilla
09-05-2004, 08:15 PM
Yes! Because Timo is an awesome right fielder! and since Magglio probly won't be back! i would love have Timo in Right! and not Boarchard! lets get rid of him!! and as long as we still have Paul at 1st and Willie at 2nd and someone at SS and Juan at Third! or we can still have Crede at 3rd and Juan at SS!:D:
.....:kukoo:

TimoPerez
09-05-2004, 09:10 PM
He certainly has one of the most underrated throwing arms in the Major Leagues.

SoxFan76
09-05-2004, 09:48 PM
He certainly has one of the most underrated throwing arms in the Major Leagues.
Timo, thank God you are here. Could you knock some sense into these people? They really don't understand how good you are. Starting RF? Maybe not, but you are a helluva backup.

MRKARNO
09-05-2004, 10:00 PM
Timo is a good bench player, but if you want him to be a starter then you have problems.

Jerome
09-05-2004, 10:05 PM
Why the hell all this love for a decent 4th OF? He's just a guy. He's nothing special. I'd rather put Borchard in there and see what he can do.

SoxFan76
09-05-2004, 10:13 PM
Why the hell all this love for a decent 4th OF? He's just a guy. He's nothing special. I'd rather put Borchard in there and see what he can do.
He is clutch as hell. He can bunt, he can hit it out if he has to, and he can pinch hit.

Nard
09-05-2004, 10:42 PM
I'm surprised he disappeared so fast from the public eye after his stint with the mets in the WS.

Sure as hell glad to have him, though.

Dan Gelo
09-06-2004, 07:32 AM
He is clutch as hell. He can bunt, he can hit it out if he has to, and he can pinch hit.
Hit it out if he has to?:?:

TimoPerez
09-06-2004, 01:02 PM
Timo, thank God you are here. Could you knock some sense into these people? They really don't understand how good you are. Starting RF? Maybe not, but you are a helluva backup.At the very least, I can start against right handed pitching. I always hit lefties in the minors, but when I got to the Mets they told me that I can't hit lefties and it got into my head. I have an extremely strong and accurate arm. Last season, I was playing rightfield and a flyball was hit to deep right in foul territory. The runner on second bluffed tagging up and going to third. After I caught it, I threw a line drive to Ty Wigginton at third...one no hops! Wiggy kept his hand at the exact spot that he caught it for a few seconds in complete shock. The runner on second was very glad that he did not try to go to third. I do all of the small things well, and can definitely help any team win. WhiteSox.com said a couple of days ago that the Sox are 21-6 when I score a run!

Bisco Stu
09-06-2004, 04:42 PM
Great thread! Absolutely underrated. Mets wouldn't have won the 2000 pennant without Timo.

TimoPerez
09-06-2004, 05:33 PM
Great thread! Absolutely underrated. Mets wouldn't have won the 2000 pennant without Timo.
Timo was robbed of the 2000 National League Championship Series Most Valuable Player!

The Cheat
09-06-2004, 07:54 PM
Timo has been incredibly over-rated.

AL RCAA (Runs Created Above Average)

LEADERS
1 Ichiro Suzuki 51
2 Melvin Mora 45
3 Travis Hafner 44
4 Manny Ramirez 43
5 Gary Sheffield 41
6 David Ortiz 38
7 Vladimir Guerrero 37
8 Hideki Matsui 34
9 Carlos Guillen 32
10 Erubiel Durazo 30

WORST
T1 Henry Blanco -26
T1 Luis Matos -26
3 Eric Hinske -22
4 Joe Crede -21
5 Cristian Guzman -20
T6 Angel Berroa -19
T6 Pokey Reese -19
T8 Jay Gibbons -18
T8 Reed Johnson -18
T10 Kevin Cash -17
T10 Timo Perez -17
T10 Scott Spiezio -17

That's a cumulative stat. It would only get worse with more playing time. It's amazing that he was able to crack the top 10 despite only getting 250AB's -- That's bad!!!

TimoPerez
09-06-2004, 08:20 PM
Timo has been incredibly over-rated.

AL RCAA (Runs Created Above Average)

LEADERS
1 Ichiro Suzuki 51
2 Melvin Mora 45
3 Travis Hafner 44
4 Manny Ramirez 43
5 Gary Sheffield 41
6 David Ortiz 38
7 Vladimir Guerrero 37
8 Hideki Matsui 34
9 Carlos Guillen 32
10 Erubiel Durazo 30

WORST
T1 Henry Blanco -26
T1 Luis Matos -26
3 Eric Hinske -22
4 Joe Crede -21
5 Cristian Guzman -20
T6 Angel Berroa -19
T6 Pokey Reese -19
T8 Jay Gibbons -18
T8 Reed Johnson -18
T10 Kevin Cash -17
T10 Timo Perez -17
T10 Scott Spiezio -17

That's a cumulative stat. It would only get worse with more playing time. It's amazing that he was able to crack the top 10 despite only getting 250AB's -- That's bad!!!
He is not having as good a season as he usually has. We all know that, and we are all(well, almost all) saying that he is very good. Can you imagine how good it would be if he was playing as he usually does?

The Cheat
09-06-2004, 08:48 PM
He is not having as good a season as he usually has. We all know that, and we are all(well, almost all) saying that he is very good. Can you imagine how good it would be if he was playing as he usually does?OMG if he was playing "as well as he usually does" he'd still be below a replacement level outfielder.... Color me not impressed...

http://baseballprospectus.com/statistics/vorp_player_by_pos2004.html


excuse me if I can't contain my excitement knowing that he has outproduced only Joe Borchard and Brian Jordan in the AL for RF'ers.

http://baseballprospectus.com/statistics/vorp_player_by_team2004.html

and only outperforms Joe Borchard on our team.

TimoPerez
09-06-2004, 09:58 PM
I don't mean to sound mean, but like it or not, it is almost every single person to post in this thread versus you. It looks like stats don't tell everything. Timo must be doing something right.

Jerome
09-06-2004, 10:28 PM
He is clutch as hell. He can bunt, he can hit it out if he has to, and he can pinch hit.



So that's why I like him on the bench. We should use him as a pinch hitter.

And does anyone know Matt Ginter's stats this year?

The Cheat
09-07-2004, 12:54 AM
I don't mean to sound mean, but like it or not, it is almost every single person to post in this thread versus you. It looks like stats don't tell everything. Timo must be doing something right.Everyone on here doesn't seem to understand that just because Timo made a couple of cluth plays he has not "helped" this team win more games this season.

I don't want Timo Perez on my team in anything other than a 4th/preferably 5th outfield spot. He's TERRIBLE!!!

One clutch hit, one defensive play does not make up for the cumulative lack of production over the course of 250 AB's -- He's a throw away player who couldn't carry a real RF'ers jock. Have you ever heard the saying even a broken clock is right twice a day? Well that's Timo. Everyone here just happened to look at the clock at the right time. They only seem to remember the times when he's right. They fail to realize that a REAL RF'er would be right much more often than timo.

I've been wathing Timo the rest of the time too. We wouldn't have needed the production from those "clutch" hits if he had actually been more productive in his other AB's.

I don't mean to sound mean, but maybe your judgement is a little clouded by the fact that you can't watch all the games, and created your username after a light-hitting career back-up outfielder.

Timo Perez = Worst outfielder in the AL

MarkEdward
09-07-2004, 01:22 AM
I don't mean to sound mean, but like it or not, it is almost every single person to post in this thread versus you.Argumentum ad numeram?

It looks like stats don't tell everything. Timo must be doing something right.He is. He's been hitting very well with runners in scoring position and he's playing very good defense. Too bad that's pretty much all he's done this year.

Timo's a useful player because he can play all three outfield positions well. He's a good option for a fifth outfielder. What I think The Cheat fears is that some see him as an everyday player, which he clearly isn't. Like MRKARNO said, if he starts next year for the Sox, we're in trouble.

In the end, he's easily replaceable. Guys like Reggie Taylor, Charles Thomas, and Dewayne Wise have the same skills as Perez, and they all end up floating around the free agent market every winter.

JRIG
09-07-2004, 07:48 AM
I don't mean to sound mean, but like it or not, it is almost every single person to post in this thread versus you.
Oh. Since we're going by popular opinion and not on evidence, add me to the list that thinks becaue Perez has hit well in "clutch" situations, h's been quite overrated this year. If he's anything more than a fifth outfielder next year we're in big trouble.

kittle42
09-07-2004, 10:51 AM
Timo Perez is a nice bench player. He has had a few good moments this year, as I am sure plenty of reserve outfielders on other teams have. That is all. There is no way that one can rationally argue that Timo Perez is "great" or that he should be a starter on this or any other major league team (except maybe the Expos).

kittle42
09-07-2004, 10:52 AM
I don't mean to sound mean, but like it or not, it is almost every single person to post in this thread versus you.
This is a horrible argument.

Dadawg_77
09-07-2004, 02:36 PM
Wow, now people want to start Timo Perez next year in right? This is a bad season when that thought even starts to cross people's minds. His career line .270/.309/.388 barely merits a bench spot.

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 03:16 PM
I never siad that he should start next year full-time. I would love him to, but I didn't say it. I said that he could start against right handed pitching. I read a prediction of the Sox signing Jermaine Dye to play rightfield.

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 03:18 PM
This is a horrible argument.
May I ask why? I was trying to show that he must be doing something right. That is why people like him. I think I got my point across.

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 03:24 PM
I don't mean to sound mean, but maybe your judgement is a little clouded by the fact that you can't watch all the games, and created your username after a light-hitting career back-up outfielder.

Timo Perez = Worst outfielder in the AL
I watched every single one of his games for the last four years with the Mets, though. You have absolutely no idea how much I have studied him and how much I know about him. The reason is definitely not that I can't watch all of the games. In his career, he has had one season that was anywhere near a complete season. He hit .295. That is very good. Maybe he deserved/deserved another shot.

kittle42
09-07-2004, 03:31 PM
I watched every single one of his games for the last four years with the Mets, though. You have absolutely no idea how much I have studied him and how much I know about him. The reason is definitely not that I can't watch all of the games. In his career, he has had one season that was anywhere near a complete season. He hit .295. That is very good. Maybe he deserved/deserved another shot.
I knew plenty of Mets fans happy to see Timoniel depart Flushing.

Since Ross Gload is hitting around that .295 level that Timo had in his big "career year," and since he has had a few clutch hits, do you think *he* should start every day, too?

Oh, and Jamie Burke is hitting for some ridiculous average, and has had a few big hits. Let's not pursue a starting catcher, either.

Guys like Perez, Burke, and Gload are bench players and, at the absolute best, platoon guys if and when someone gets injured.

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 04:00 PM
I knew plenty of Mets fans happy to see Timoniel depart Flushing.

Since Ross Gload is hitting around that .295 level that Timo had in his big "career year," and since he has had a few clutch hits, do you think *he* should start every day, too?

Oh, and Jamie Burke is hitting for some ridiculous average, and has had a few big hits. Let's not pursue a starting catcher, either.

Guys like Perez, Burke, and Gload are bench players and, at the absolute best, platoon guys if and when someone gets injured.Timo did it in 444 at bats.

kittle42
09-07-2004, 04:36 PM
Timo did it in 444 at bats.
So because he hit .295 a few seasons ago in 444 at-bats, he merits a closer look?

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 04:59 PM
So because he hit .295 a few seasons ago in 444 at-bats, he merits a closer look?
At minimum, he merited a closer look the season after.

kittle42
09-07-2004, 05:16 PM
At minimum, he merited a closer look the season after.
Well, fine, but that has little to do with the Sox this season.

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 06:06 PM
Well, fine, but that has little to do with the Sox this season.
But I think it means that he deserves to be cut some slack when played. The more he plays, the better he will play.

kittle42
09-07-2004, 06:09 PM
But I think it means that he deserves to be cut some slack when played. The more he plays, the better he will play.
Even that year, his overall numbers were not good enough to merit being a starting outfielder, particularly a corner OF. As I recall, he played mostly center that year.

By the way, I had a rant earlier this year when people made the "the more he plays, the better he will play" argument about Ross Gload. There is a reason there are several BENCH players on a team.

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 06:13 PM
Even that year, his overall numbers were not good enough to merit being a starting outfielder, particularly a corner OF. As I recall, he played mostly center that year.

By the way, I had a rant earlier this year when people made the "the more he plays, the better he will play" argument about Ross Gload. There is a reason there are several BENCH players on a team.
Yes, he played mostly center that season.

Regarding the bench players, Timo is better than most bench players. I think you have to admit that.

The Cheat
09-07-2004, 06:27 PM
Yes, he played mostly center that season.

Regarding the bench players, Timo is better than most bench players. I think you have to admit that.Nope a good bench player would contribute at a replacement level or above for the position they are playing -- Timo DOESN'T.

Ross Gload is a good bench player -- Jamie Burke is a good bench player. Timo should head back to Japan.

kittle42
09-07-2004, 06:32 PM
Regarding the bench players, Timo is better than most bench players. I think you have to admit that.
No, I really don't. His stats and performance prove otherwise. He is a typical bench guy.

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 09:36 PM
Nope a good bench player would contribute at a replacement level or above for the position they are playing -- Timo DOESN'T.

Ross Gload is a good bench player -- Jamie Burke is a good bench player. Timo should head back to Japan.
At least there he got the appreciation he deserved!:tongue:

TimoPerez
09-07-2004, 09:37 PM
No, I really don't. His stats and performance prove otherwise. He is a typical bench guy.
I'm sorry to be stubborn, but there is no chance that I am going to change my view on this, and it appears to be the same for you. We might as well drop it.