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35thStChurros
09-05-2004, 12:31 AM
I am probably one of the few people here that still have some hope for the 2004 team. We are 9 1/2 out, but we also have 13 more games against our division! Including 6 against the Twins. If the Sox get some heart, and play their a$$es off, I believe it could go down to the wire and we can manage to get back into 1st place. I am still nervous about the series with the Rangers and Angels. That could be a tough one. I also think that it is unfortunate that we have Diaz and Grilli pitching in some of these games but if our offense steps it up and Ozzie takes them out if they are getting drilled, we could still win! Your thoughts....

JB98
09-05-2004, 12:36 AM
I am probably one of the few people here that still have some hope for the 2004 team. We are 9 1/2 out, but we also have 13 more games against our division! Including 6 against the Twins. If the Sox get some heart, and play their a$$es off, I believe it could go down to the wire and we can manage to get back into 1st place. I am still nervous about the series with the Rangers and Angels. That could be a tough one. I also think that it is unfortunate that we have Diaz and Grilli pitching in some of these games but if our offense steps it up and Ozzie takes them out if they are getting drilled, we could still win! Your thoughts....
Sorry, buddy. I don't believe in miracles. The Twins are a good team. They won't collapse.

RedPinStripes
09-05-2004, 12:40 AM
I am probably one of the few people here that still have some hope for the 2004 team. We are 9 1/2 out, but we also have 13 more games against our division! Including 6 against the Twins. If the Sox get some heart, and play their a$$es off, I believe it could go down to the wire and we can manage to get back into 1st place. I am still nervous about the series with the Rangers and Angels. That could be a tough one. I also think that it is unfortunate that we have Diaz and Grilli pitching in some of these games but if our offense steps it up and Ozzie takes them out if they are getting drilled, we could still win! Your thoughts....
Stop yourself.

voodoochile
09-05-2004, 01:33 AM
Stop yourself.
You know, the fan in me wants to say, anything's possible and then I wake up...

Isn't there some stat that no team has ever come back from 10 games out to win any division, ever? 9.5 on 9/5 seems close enough to me...

Go Bears! Go Buckeyes!

balke
09-05-2004, 02:04 AM
I am probably one of the few people here that still have some hope for the 2004 team. We are 9 1/2 out, but we also have 13 more games against our division! Including 6 against the Twins. If the Sox get some heart, and play their a$$es off, I believe it could go down to the wire and we can manage to get back into 1st place. I am still nervous about the series with the Rangers and Angels. That could be a tough one. I also think that it is unfortunate that we have Diaz and Grilli pitching in some of these games but if our offense steps it up and Ozzie takes them out if they are getting drilled, we could still win! Your thoughts....
Sure, we could win out.........

balke
09-05-2004, 02:24 AM
Oh, and FYI our E# is 19 So we can afford to lose 15, so long as the twins lose out. So this division has gotta be ours, cause you know the twins can't beat 15 teams the rest of the year.

Nellie_Fox
09-05-2004, 02:32 AM
It's over. Watch the games because they're major league baseball, but do you realize what you are hoping for? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there has never been a collapse of the magnitude you are hoping for.

Not only that, but the Twins are playing well right now. It's not like they are showing signs of weakness.

DrCrawdad
09-05-2004, 03:25 AM
I am probably one of the few people here that still have some hope for the 2004 team. We are 9 1/2 out, but we also have 13 more games against our division! Including 6 against the Twins. If the Sox get some heart, and play their a$$es off, I believe it could go down to the wire and we can manage to get back into 1st place. I am still nervous about the series with the Rangers and Angels. That could be a tough one. I also think that it is unfortunate that we have Diaz and Grilli pitching in some of these games but if our offense steps it up and Ozzie takes them out if they are getting drilled, we could still win! Your thoughts....

An optimistic Sox fan? God bless you my friend!

pudge
09-05-2004, 03:36 AM
An optimistic Sox fan? God bless you my friend!
Well, optimism is one thing, and ignorance is another. I don't think this fella quite understands what 9.5 back really means. But hey, WSI will whip him into shape in no time. :cool:

TornLabrum
09-05-2004, 07:54 AM
Well, optimism is one thing, and ignorance is another. I don't think this fella quite understands what 9.5 back really means. But hey, WSI will whip him into shape in no time. :cool:
And if that doesn't work, age and years of watching the Sox find ways to lose will.

DrCrawdad
09-05-2004, 08:04 AM
And if that doesn't work, age and years of watching the Sox find ways to lose will.

Ain't that the truth!

I understand where 35thStChurros is coming from though. As a youngster I remember actually believing that the 1976 Sox team lead by Ralph Garr and Bart Johnson would win the AL pennant.

I was at the game last night with my wife and daughter. We all enjoyed the game. Still nothing like a White Sox winner!

fquaye149
09-05-2004, 09:42 AM
coming back from 9.5 games would be a tall task for the team at full strength.

For us, riddled and weak, it's virtually impossible. . .

of course if it happens, i'll say i knew it all along :)

Brian26
09-05-2004, 09:56 AM
The closest example of a comeback of this magnitude would have been the Seattle Mariners in '95 coming back against the Angels. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but they were about 9 out on September 1.

Brian26
09-05-2004, 10:00 AM
On August 9, 1995, the Angels had a 9 game lead over the Mariners. The Angels went 9 and 27, and on September 27, 1995, the Mariners had a 3 game lead over the Angels.

I'll do some more research and try to find out where the M's were on Sept 1.

Brian26
09-05-2004, 10:05 AM
More info--

The Mariners on August 24, 1995, were one game under .500 and 11.5 games out of first place.

Tragg
09-05-2004, 10:06 AM
On September 21, 1964, the Phillies had a 6.5 game lead with a magic number of 7. They lost the pennant- no playoff, just lost it--and they won the last 2 games of the season.

so all we have to do is get the lead down to 6.5 over the next 2 weeks and we're home free!

Brian26
09-05-2004, 10:08 AM
I don't think anyone will disagree that we have to run the table against the Twins. 4 out of 6 only picks up two games. 5 out of 6 only picks up 4 games. We need 6 out of 6. It's all we got.

Tragg
09-05-2004, 10:16 AM
Asking a lineup that has played about .333 ball to start playing .800 ball, and then asking a team that is 15 games or so above .500 to play .200 ball, is well, howling at the moon.

voodoochile
09-05-2004, 10:48 AM
Asking a lineup that has played about .333 ball to start playing .800 ball, and then asking a team that is 15 games or so above .500 to play .200 ball, is well, howling at the moon.
ar... ar...ar...AROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :D:

soxtalker
09-05-2004, 11:21 AM
If there is nothing to lose, a positive spin on things makes sense, and, in fact, is admirable. However, I'd rather that Ozzie and KW not take this point of view, as they may waste the playing time for young players and those they are trying to evaluate for next year. Although there have been plenty of objections on this board, I'm pleased that they are playing Borchard. I don't understand why they are giving valuable playing time to Valentin and either of the Alomars.

AddisonStSox
09-05-2004, 11:28 AM
I am probably one of the few people here that still have some hope for the 2004 team. We are 9 1/2 out, but we also have 13 more games against our division! Including 6 against the Twins. If the Sox get some heart, and play their a$$es off, I believe it could go down to the wire and we can manage to get back into 1st place. I am still nervous about the series with the Rangers and Angels. That could be a tough one. I also think that it is unfortunate that we have Diaz and Grilli pitching in some of these games but if our offense steps it up and Ozzie takes them out if they are getting drilled, we could still win! Your thoughts....
http://www.laughingplace.com/files/columns/OnFilm20020502/Angels.JPG

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...nothing short of this will get this team to the post-season, and unless Danny Glover writes out today's lineup card, we are outta luck.

Tragg
09-05-2004, 11:41 AM
If there is nothing to lose, a positive spin on things makes sense, and, in fact, is admirable. However, I'd rather that Ozzie and KW not take this point of view, as they may waste the playing time for young players and those they are trying to evaluate for next year. Although there have been plenty of objections on this board, I'm pleased that they are playing Borchard. I don't understand why they are giving valuable playing time to Valentin and either of the Alomars. agree

idseer
09-05-2004, 11:57 AM
On August 9, 1995, the Angels had a 9 game lead over the Mariners. The Angels went 9 and 27, and on September 27, 1995, the Mariners had a 3 game lead over the Angels.

I'll do some more research and try to find out where the M's were on Sept 1.
i might add that on july 12th 1997 fred schumpter, who thought he had no chance, won $27,000,000 in the state lottery. so it CAN be done! :rolleyes:

balke
09-05-2004, 12:00 PM
More info--

The Mariners on August 24, 1995, were one game under .500 and 11.5 games out of first place.
I'm more expectant that it rains frogs before that happens to the sox this season. I'd believe it if Thomas stepped out on the field tonight, like Burrell coming back from his season ending wrist injury for the phills out of nowhere. That too is less likely than frogs.... and I'm usually the optimist :D:

daveeym
09-05-2004, 12:23 PM
Well, optimism is one thing, and ignorance is another. I don't think this fella quite understands what 9.5 back really means. But hey, WSI will whip him into shape in no time. :cool: I figured he was 12 years old but he's actually 25, so i'm hoping he's a foreigner who is just picking up the game and was lucky enough to become a sox fan. :D: :gulp: :bandance:

kittle42
09-05-2004, 12:30 PM
This thread is ridiculous.

doublem23
09-05-2004, 12:39 PM
This thread is ridiculous.
Thank you. There's no point in discussing and hacking numbers and **** about this. The White Sox are all but mathematically eliminated from the 2004 post-season. If the planets align themselves, it will be the biggest statistical anomaly EVER. Every Sabermatrician may spontaneously combust.

Mohoney
09-05-2004, 05:55 PM
Every Sabermatrician may spontaneously combust.Is there any way to make this happen even if we don't win?

Soxzilla
09-05-2004, 07:19 PM
I still have hope....


......Because I have 50 bucks ridding on them.:gulp:

munchman33
09-05-2004, 10:26 PM
Though I have reserved my opinion for weeks, I still believe we will win this division. The real test is this week. Texas and Anaheim, and we need to gain a couple of games this week. Four very winnable matchups, though, in Texas:

Monday Grilli vs. Chan Ho Park
Tuesday Contreras vs. Rogers
Wednesday Garcia vs. Wasdin
Thursday Buehrle vs. Chris Young

After that stretch, we have our 6 head to head matchups with the Twins. The rest of our games are the Tigers and the Royals (for 8 more games wow!). Meanwhile, the Twins will have us, Baltimore, Cleveland, and the Yankees to end the season. Those three games with the Yanks will be huge, as the Yankees will be battling Boston for that division.

I say we can still make the Twins look foolish for already selling their playoff tickets!:bandance:

santo=dorf
09-05-2004, 10:29 PM
I say we can still make the Twins look foolish for already selling their playoff tickets!:bandance:
Like they did to us last year? :whiner: :angry:

fquaye149
09-05-2004, 11:05 PM
Though I have reserved my opinion for weeks, I still believe we will win this division. The real test is this week. Texas and Anaheim, and we need to gain a couple of games this week. Four very winnable matchups, though, in Texas:

Monday Grilli vs. Chan Ho Park
Tuesday Contreras vs. Rogers
Wednesday Garcia vs. Wasdin
Thursday Buehrle vs. Chris Young

After that stretch, we have our 6 head to head matchups with the Twins. The rest of our games are the Tigers and the Royals (for 8 more games wow!). Meanwhile, the Twins will have us, Baltimore, Cleveland, and the Yankees to end the season. Those three games with the Yanks will be huge, as the Yankees will be battling Boston for that division.

I say we can still make the Twins look foolish for already selling their playoff tickets!:bandance:
well it's mathematically possible. ..i just don't think the lineup we have can get her done.

please prove me wrong guys!

JB98
09-05-2004, 11:32 PM
Though I have reserved my opinion for weeks, I still believe we will win this division. The real test is this week. Texas and Anaheim, and we need to gain a couple of games this week. Four very winnable matchups, though, in Texas:

Monday Grilli vs. Chan Ho Park
Tuesday Contreras vs. Rogers
Wednesday Garcia vs. Wasdin
Thursday Buehrle vs. Chris Young

After that stretch, we have our 6 head to head matchups with the Twins. The rest of our games are the Tigers and the Royals (for 8 more games wow!). Meanwhile, the Twins will have us, Baltimore, Cleveland, and the Yankees to end the season. Those three games with the Yanks will be huge, as the Yankees will be battling Boston for that division.

I say we can still make the Twins look foolish for already selling their playoff tickets!:bandance:
ROTFL:rolleyes:

I went to the game today and enjoyed the win, but let's not get carried away here. Assuming the Twins play .500 ball the rest of the season, we would have to win 22 of our last 27 games just to force a one-game playoff. That's not going to happen. We'd need a Twinkie collapse, and unfortunately, that's also not going to happen. Minnesota has proven it knows how to get the job done in September.

dcb33
09-05-2004, 11:54 PM
ROTFL:rolleyes:

I went to the game today and enjoyed the win, but let's not get carried away here. Assuming the Twins play .500 ball the rest of the season, we would have to win 22 of our last 27 games just to force a one-game playoff. That's not going to happen. We'd need a Twinkie collapse, and unfortunately, that's also not going to happen. Minnesota has proven it knows how to get the job done in September.
Now how can you say such things? Ed Farmer still thinks this team has an extended winning streak left in it- he reminds us of that every broadcast!


Can the Sox win the division? Yes, I think they can. Have they had an extended winning streak this year? No, but I think they will!

Nard
09-06-2004, 12:48 AM
ROTFL:rolleyes:

I went to the game today and enjoyed the win, but let's not get carried away here. Assuming the Twins play .500 ball the rest of the season, we would have to win 22 of our last 27 games just to force a one-game playoff. That's not going to happen. We'd need a Twinkie collapse, and unfortunately, that's also not going to happen. Minnesota has proven it knows how to get the job done in September.
I'd agree with you if we didn't have SIX GAMES against Minny.

Because there are so many games left against them... the ball is in our court if we wanna make a run or not.

balke
09-06-2004, 09:19 AM
I'd agree with you if we didn't have SIX GAMES against Minny.

Because there are so many games left against them... the ball is in our court if we wanna make a run or not.
We're obviously going to sweep the 6-set with Minnesota. Did you see how we just manhandled the seattle Mariners? Our team really looks solid. Oh man... watch out Texas and Anaheim, we is HOT!

munchman33
09-06-2004, 09:32 AM
We're obviously going to sweep the 6-set with Minnesota. Did you see how we just manhandled the seattle Mariners? Our team really looks solid. Oh man... watch out Texas and Anaheim, we is HOT!
Crazier things have happened. Our 2000 team was way less talented than this team, especially in the pitching. But I remember them taking 7 straight games from the Yankmees and Injuns.

balke
09-06-2004, 09:37 AM
Crazier things have happened. Our 2000 team was way less talented than this team, especially in the pitching. But I remember them taking 7 straight games from the Yankmees and Injuns.
I'll jump on the bus if Grilli and Contreras win. 5 straight would be our first this season, something to crow about. I want to believe, but it's... just ridiculous to right now. All those games were near losses to the mariners.

PorkChopExpress
09-06-2004, 09:45 AM
There's always a possibility, and I want it to happen, but it is unlikely. That being said, I will still be watching every game as if we have a shot (even after we get eliminated - I love this team).

SOXSINCE'70
09-06-2004, 09:46 AM
A quote in Sunday's "Cub-Une" struck me as odd.Someone asked Ozzie who stood the better chance in the NL wild card race.He said the Marlins because,"The Cubs have the better players,but the Marlins have the better team".If I didn't know any better,i'd think that quote could be attributed to the Sox.The Sox have the better players,but the Twins ARE the better team,sadly.:(: :(: :(: :(:

45 years without a WS and counting.:angry: :angry: :angry:

Brian26
09-06-2004, 09:49 AM
ROTFL:rolleyes:

I went to the game today and enjoyed the win, but let's not get carried away here. Assuming the Twins play .500 ball the rest of the season, we would have to win 22 of our last 27 games just to force a one-game playoff. That's not going to happen. We'd need a Twinkie collapse, and unfortunately, that's also not going to happen. Minnesota has proven it knows how to get the job done in September.
But the key here is that we play the Twins 6 times ourselves. Even if we win 5 out of 6 from the Twins, do you honestly think they are going to go 21-0 in their 21 other games? No way. That's why stats like that don't tell the whole story. If we were done playing the Twins for the rest of the year, it would look more intimidating. In the head-to-head games we have left, every win for us is a loss for them....we can make up a hell of a lot of ground. We definitely need to win 5 of 6 at the very least though, and probably 6 of 6.

JB98
09-06-2004, 11:02 AM
But the key here is that we play the Twins 6 times ourselves. Even if we win 5 out of 6 from the Twins, do you honestly think they are going to go 21-0 in their 21 other games? No way. That's why stats like that don't tell the whole story. If we were done playing the Twins for the rest of the year, it would look more intimidating. In the head-to-head games we have left, every win for us is a loss for them....we can make up a hell of a lot of ground. We definitely need to win 5 of 6 at the very least though, and probably 6 of 6.
No, I don't honestly think they are going 21-0 in their other 21 games. They don't need to go 21-0. Even if they go 11-10, our goose is cooked. I don't think some of you realize what a longshot this is.

We would have to win all six head-to-head matchups, and if you honestly think that's going to happen, I have some prime real estate to sell you in the Sahara Desert.

This is only the second time since the All-Star break that we've won three games in a row. In fact, we've only strung together back-to-back wins on four occasions since the break. There is absolutely no evidence that suggests we are about to go on a run where we win 22 out of 27. That's the type of streak it's going to take. I hope we finish the season strong, but it's foolish to think we are going to play .800 ball the rest of the year and steal the division.

Brian26
09-06-2004, 11:10 AM
There is absolutely no evidence that suggests we are about to go on a run where we win 22 out of 27. That's the type of streak it's going to take.
I think you missed what I was trying to explain. It won't take 22 out of 27 wins by the White Sox if the Sox win 5 of 6 or 6 of 6 against the Twins. The stats you quoted are only good if the Sox and Twins didn't play each other again.

Granted, and I agree with you on this, that it's going to be a longshot. It all hinges on going through the Twins like a hot knife through butter in those two remaining series. It's been done before, and crazier things have happened. I think a lot of people are relying on the Sox going on a decent little win streak, and the fact remains that every year, all teams, no matter how good or how bad, go on at least one decent winning streak. The Sox, this year, have yet to do that.

JB98
09-06-2004, 11:24 AM
I think you missed what I was trying to explain. It won't take 22 out of 27 wins by the White Sox if the Sox win 5 of 6 or 6 of 6 against the Twins. The stats you quoted are only good if the Sox and Twins didn't play each other again.
For the sake of argument, let's say the Sox win all six from the Twins, and Minnesota plays .500 ball against the rest of its remaining opponents. That puts the Twins at 87-75. We'd have to go 19-8, including the six head-to-head wins, just to tie.

The thing is, I don't think Minnesota will play .500 or less in those other games. They are more than likely going to be two or three games over, due to their remaining games with Baltimore and Cleveland.

I think it's going to take 90 wins. That's how I arrive at my 22-5 projection.

stl_sox_fan
09-06-2004, 12:50 PM
As much as I would love drink the Kool Aid and believe they are still alive, I think I've seen the future before. They will win just enough games to make it close(say finishing 3 or 4 games out). Then we get to sit back and count all of those shoulda won games(opening day vs the Royals, 4th of July against the Cubs, and every game Koch pitched in).

balke
09-06-2004, 12:56 PM
As much as I would love drink the Kool Aid and believe they are still alive, I think I've seen the future before. They will win just enough games to make it close(say finishing 3 or 4 games out). Then we get to sit back and count all of those shoulda won games(opening day vs the Royals, 4th of July against the Cubs, and every game Koch pitched in).
Fact is we still have no bullpen, and no 5 starter. Who knows what's going on w/ Freddy. The odds of us streaking past TODAY let alone 6 w/ minney are... well... DEEP PINK

stl_sox_fan
09-06-2004, 12:59 PM
Fact is we still have no bullpen, and no 5 starter. Who knows what's going on w/ Freddy. The odds of us streaking past TODAY let alone 6 w/ minney are... well... DEEP PINK
I will feel a lot better about Garcia when he laces them up for his scheduled start on Wednesday. The term Sore Shoulder makes me think back to Kelly Wunsch and Mike Sirotka and their Torn Labrums years back.

jortafan
09-06-2004, 01:35 PM
For the Minnesota Twins to blow the division lead this season would take a collapse of historic proportions, similar to the way the Philadelphia Phillies blew a huge lead in 1964, or the way the Cubs pissed away a lead in September in 1969.

Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. Only the Cubs are capable of being that awful.

Personally, I'll be satisfied at this point if they finish in second place with a winning record.

Brian26
09-06-2004, 02:37 PM
You just gotta believe.

Brian26
09-06-2004, 02:39 PM
We all the saw the miracle of Steve Bartman last year when the crybaby scrubs were within 5 outs of history. We all saw a 3-1 series lead, with 2 games left at home, evaporate last fall. Anything is possible. Just believe.

idseer
09-06-2004, 02:46 PM
:rolleyes:

Brian26
09-06-2004, 03:16 PM
:rolleyes:
Final from Baltimore, O's beat the Twins 4-1. We're currently 8.0 out.

If we can hold on to this lead for 7 more outs, we're 7.5 out.

With 6 left to kick the Twins butts.

SomebodyToldMe
09-06-2004, 03:18 PM
Final from Baltimore, O's beat the Twins 4-1. We're currently 8.0 out.

If we can hold on to this lead for 7 more outs, we're 7.5 out.

With 6 left to kick the Twins butts.
Thing's are getting interesting.

Nard
09-06-2004, 03:19 PM
Even better yet, the game ended on a pre-rally-killing flyout by the apparent second coming of Christ, Ms. Tiffany Tiffee.

Maybe she can start acting like Joe Borchard for us and start killing 9th inning rallies for the Twinkies.

Bisco Stu
09-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Oh no, I taint buying this lemon...

SoxxoS
09-06-2004, 03:47 PM
It was better when nobody was talking about this. Quit setting yourself up for dissapointment.

Let's say we take 5 of 6. That is still 3.5 out with 12 to play. That means we have to go 8-4, and the Twins have to go 4-8.

Santana is guaranteed wins, so it's going to be pretty difficult.

StockdaleForVeep
09-06-2004, 03:52 PM
I am probably one of the few people here that still have some hope for the 2004 team. We are 9 1/2 out, but we also have 13 more games against our division! Including 6 against the Twins. If the Sox get some heart, and play their a$$es off, I believe it could go down to the wire and we can manage to get back into 1st place. I am still nervous about the series with the Rangers and Angels. That could be a tough one. I also think that it is unfortunate that we have Diaz and Grilli pitching in some of these games but if our offense steps it up and Ozzie takes them out if they are getting drilled, we could still win! Your thoughts....havent posted in a while but everyone here knows my beliefs, we still have a shot

humor me and say the sox sweep the twins, that means from this day forward, the twins wont lose 1 game and we wont win 1 game to get within .5\tie for the lead

Brian26
09-06-2004, 03:53 PM
Let's say we take 5 of 6. That is still 3.5 out with 12 to play. That means we have to go 8-4, and the Twins have to go 4-8.There are more than 18 games left this season, aren't there? What about the other games?

Santana is guaranteed wins, so it's going to be pretty difficult.Nothing is guaranteed in baseball. That's why the games are played. A 3-2 series lead with Wood and Prior on the mound at home was a guaranteed trip to the World Series, too, supposedly.

Just believe.

SoxxoS
09-06-2004, 03:55 PM
There are more than 18 games left this season, aren't there? What about the other games?

Nothing is guaranteed in baseball. That's why the games are played. A 3-2 series lead with Wood and Prior on the mound at home was a guaranteed trip to the World Series, too, supposedly.

Just believe.
I was talking about all things being equal at the end of the Twins series.

Hey Brian, we are obviously both big Sox fans. What in their past makes you think we could win this thing? We are disapointments every year. I will be rooting for them, but I am not going to "believe."

Brian26
09-06-2004, 04:04 PM
Hey Brian, we are obviously both big Sox fans. What in their past makes you think we could win this thing? We are disapointments every year. I will be rooting for them, but I am not going to "believe."
I could list several reasons to still believe in this team, but let me throw out a couple of things:

It seems like every team every year, no matter how good or how bad, has a nice winning streak during the season. It doesn't have to be "x" amount of games in a row, but a certain "x" amount out of "y" games. The Sox haven't done this yet. They've had mini-winning streaks here and there, but nothing prolonged. I think they still have one nice streak left in them.

Second, I don't think the Twins are much better than us, even without Frank and Mags in the lineup.

Most importantly, why take a defeatist attitude if you're going to watch the games anyway? If I already knew the result of the games before they happened, I wouldn't watch. Part of the joy of watching the games is not knowing what's going to happen. This team has enough talent to make it happen. We swept the Twins earlier this year at the Metrodome. It can happen again.

idseer
09-06-2004, 04:06 PM
I could list several reasons to still believe in this team, but let me throw out a couple of things:

It seems like every team every year, no matter how good or how bad, has a nice winning streak during the season. It doesn't have to be "x" amount of games in a row, but a certain "x" amount out of "y" games. The Sox haven't done this yet. They've had mini-winning streaks here and there, but nothing prolonged. I think they still have one nice streak left in them.

Second, I don't think the Twins are much better than us, even without Frank and Mags in the lineup.

Most importantly, why take a defeatist attitude if you're going to watch the games anyway? If I already knew the result of the games before they happened, I wouldn't watch. Part of the joy of watching the games is not knowing what's going to happen. This team has enough talent to make it happen. We swept the Twins earlier this year at the Metrodome. It can happen again.
geez ... what a die hard. :?:

you must be some kind of masochist. :smile:

JB98
09-06-2004, 04:08 PM
I was talking about all things being equal at the end of the Twins series.

Hey Brian, we are obviously both big Sox fans. What in their past makes you think we could win this thing? We are disapointments every year. I will be rooting for them, but I am not going to "believe."
I'm right with you on this thought. I'm still watching every game and rooting my ass off, but I'm not fool enough to "believe" we can win this division.

If we pull within two games of the Twins, maybe I'll think differently. But not until then...

Brian26
09-06-2004, 04:08 PM
geez ... what a die hard. :?:

you must be some kind of masochist. :smile:
Why watch if you want them to lose? You're here 5 minutes after the game, so you must be a Sox fan. Does it hurt any less if you wave the white flag in your own head before the team is eliminated mathematically? If you're going to watch anyway, you might as well do it with some faith.

Brian26
09-06-2004, 04:10 PM
I'm right with you on this thought. I'm still watching every game and rooting my ass off, but I'm not fool enough to "believe" we can win this division.
C'mon, don't be a wimp. You root for them but don't believe they will win? That's called being a bandwagon fan. You're teetering just enough so that if they do comeback and win this thing, you can say you were with them all the way. And if they tank, you can easily say they never had a chance. Be a real fan! :D:

idseer
09-06-2004, 04:14 PM
Why watch if you want them to lose? You're here 5 minutes after the game, so you must be a Sox fan. Does it hurt any less if you wave the white flag in your own head before the team is eliminated mathematically? If you're going to watch anyway, you might as well do it with some faith.
whoa there! who said anything about wanting them to lose. certainly your reading comprehension is better than that!

mdep524
09-06-2004, 04:21 PM
Hey guys, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate and enjoy your enthusiasm for the Sox. Don't let the negative or pessimistic fans make you question your enthusiasm. Are you right to still believe? Maybe, maybe not. But the point is you are enjoying baseball, the way it's meant to be.

As opposed to only trashing the team, or "calculating" the number of games you will "allow" yourself to attend for next year based on JR's ownership or the giant billboards in the outfield concourse, etc.

The Sox are probably not going to the playoffs this year and I am very critical of this team in many ways, but it is refreshing to see some spirit and enthusiasm about the team, regardless of what the realists say.

BTW, I don't know what's going to happen vs. the Twins, but I'll tell you one thing, nothing would make me happier than seeing the Sox come out with some serious fire and playing the Twins as aggressively as possible, no matter what the standings are. I don't care if we're 12 games back by that point, I want to see the Sox come out and play really hard baseball against the Twins, including plunking or at least knocking down Torii Hunter on the very first pitch he sees.

JB98
09-06-2004, 04:22 PM
C'mon, don't be a wimp. You root for them but don't believe they will win? That's called being a bandwagon fan. You're teetering just enough so that if they do comeback and win this thing, you can say you were with them all the way. And if they tank, you can easily say they never had a chance. Be a real fan! :D:
No, being a bandwagon fan means rooting for them only when you know they are going to win. I'm not teetering at all. We're not going to win this division.

fquaye149
09-06-2004, 04:34 PM
Does it hurt any less if you wave the white flag in your own head before the team is eliminated mathematically?
of course.

you have to give it up when it's over.

now i don't know if it's over now, but every bone in my body says it does. if i raise my hopes up unrealistically, it just makes me feel even more stupid for believing if they do fail since every bit of logic told me the season was done.

BUT I WANT THEM TO PROVE ME WRONG! We're not cubs fans, we don't take solace in our history or WAITING TILL NEXT YEAR!

dcb33
09-06-2004, 05:36 PM
Here is my prediction-

Knowing the Sox, we will pick up another 1.5 games on the Twins before we play them this road trip, then sweep them at the Metrodome, leaving us only 3 back. We will hold pace with them until we play them the following week at the Cell. Everyone will be going crazy, filled with hope over the prospects of catching the Twins and winning the division, at which point the Sox will trickle it down their legs, get swept, leaving us 6 back and making everyone who still harbors hope look silly.

That would be the perfect way for the Sox to close out this joke of a season...

soxwon
09-06-2004, 07:02 PM
are we fooling ourselves again?
i hope not
Lets have the faith we just DO IT.

stl_sox_fan
09-06-2004, 08:23 PM
I have to say it is refreshing to see this much team spirit when the team is down. I am surrounded by St Louis fans that turn on their players, teams and management when they have an offseason, let alone seasons.

Good guys still wear black!

munchman33
09-06-2004, 08:23 PM
Here is my prediction-

Knowing the Sox, we will pick up another 1.5 games on the Twins before we play them this road trip, then sweep them at the Metrodome, leaving us only 3 back. We will hold pace with them until we play them the following week at the Cell. Everyone will be going crazy, filled with hope over the prospects of catching the Twins and winning the division, at which point the Sox will trickle it down their legs, get swept, leaving us 6 back and making everyone who still harbors hope look silly.

That would be the perfect way for the Sox to close out this joke of a season...:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:

Where's a mod when you need one?

bobj4400
09-06-2004, 08:27 PM
Here is my prediction-

Knowing the Sox, we will pick up another 1.5 games on the Twins before we play them this road trip, then sweep them at the Metrodome, leaving us only 3 back. We will hold pace with them until we play them the following week at the Cell. Everyone will be going crazy, filled with hope over the prospects of catching the Twins and winning the division, at which point the Sox will trickle it down their legs, get swept, leaving us 6 back and making everyone who still harbors hope look silly.

That would be the perfect way for the Sox to close out this joke of a season...
I can totally see this scenario developing. It would be so White Sox...

dcb33
09-06-2004, 10:18 PM
:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:







Where's a mod when you need one?
Oh wait, I'm so sorry for saying the Sox are finished. It's obvious to me now that sweeping the Seattle Mariners and beating sorry ass Chan Ho Park and the Rangers who had 5 errors today surely means we are playoff contenders. Foolish me. I apologize for wasting your time.

balke
09-06-2004, 10:32 PM
If we win tomorrow, and minny loses... do we still bring up Valdez? Or do we let the team's chemistry role? I've said before, if we win tomorrow I'll buy into the hope. I'd like people's opinion on that scenario though, believers or not.

StepsInSC
09-06-2004, 10:32 PM
We don't care what you think, freedom of expression and thought is a common value we all believe in around here. But you just sound like an extremely big douche and negative ninny.

Go sell crazy elsewhere, we are all stocked up here.
Crazy = believing this team can come back from a 7.5 game deficit in September. No team in history has done it, and this team is mediocre at best.

Now, hope is something totally different from belief.

doublem23
09-06-2004, 10:40 PM
:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:





Where's a mod when you need one?
I'm here and I think dcb33 hit the nail on the head.

ClaudelSleptHere
09-06-2004, 10:44 PM
i might add that on july 12th 1997 fred schumpter, who thought he had no chance, won $27,000,000 in the state lottery. so it CAN be done! :rolleyes:
Can Fred Schumpter pitch?

MRKARNO
09-06-2004, 10:49 PM
Here is my prediction-

Knowing the Sox, we will pick up another 1.5 games on the Twins before we play them this road trip, then sweep them at the Metrodome, leaving us only 3 back. We will hold pace with them until we play them the following week at the Cell. Everyone will be going crazy, filled with hope over the prospects of catching the Twins and winning the division, at which point the Sox will trickle it down their legs, get swept, leaving us 6 back and making everyone who still harbors hope look silly.

That would be the perfect way for the Sox to close out this joke of a season...
It probably would. I can easily see this scenario happening. Dont listen to those who are trashing you for saying this because this line of thought, while pessimistic, is realistic.

I have to say that I'm not going to believe in this team until we're within 4.5. At that point I will begin to have real hope. Otherwise I just hope that we can win some games, put together a respectable record and see the development of our players looking towards 2005.

DumpJerry
09-06-2004, 10:52 PM
As a result of this weekend, things have gotten interesting. Are the Sox making a serious run for it or are they doing their annual tease of us? Stay tuned, nobody knows what the next three weeks will bring, nobody. Someone mentioned that Santana has several starts left this month, so those are automatic wins. No so! The law of averages say he can lose a game or two this month. No pitcher, not even Mickey Lolich when he was winning 30 games won every start.

We can do cold rational analysis and say mathematically it can't be done or historically it has never happened before. But...........try telling that to the 1969 Mets or the 1980 US Olympic hockey team (who got demolished by the Soviets just before the Olys) or any of the other sports teams that "beat the odds" to win it all.

Bottom line: it's when you win the number of games it takes to finish in first, but the fact that you win them by the last day.

Now, how lucky are the Flubs? They hold a three game lead over the Fish in the wild card race. Imagine if Frances did not come roaring through town and the Fish swept the Flubs 3-0?:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

JB98
09-06-2004, 11:07 PM
If we win tomorrow, and minny loses... do we still bring up Valdez? Or do we let the team's chemistry role? I've said before, if we win tomorrow I'll buy into the hope. I'd like people's opinion on that scenario though, believers or not.

Yes, we still bring up Valdez. Why not? I'm not sure that we have any chemistry, and if we do, I doubt Valentin and his .220 batting average and ridiculous strikeout totals are the cause of it.

This thread embodies the bipolarity of Sox fans. A week ago, we had people posting about how we were going to struggle to hold off the Royals for fourth place. Now, we sweep the hopeless Seattle Mariners and beat a Texas team that made three errors in one inning today, and POOF!!!! We're contenders now.

Of course, the truth lies in the middle. We aren't the worst team in the league. That honor goes to the Royals. But we aren't contenders either. We're the White Sox: Just good enough to finish in second place, like always.

Soxzilla
09-07-2004, 12:23 AM
Wait, so you believe in freedom of expression and thought and yet you tell me you don't care what others (me) think and that I need to go away because I wish to express the fact that I think that the Sox are finished because we're 7.5 games back on September 6? If you want to know who the big douche and negative ninny is around here you should look in a mirror.
You still haven't been able to debate anything I've said, instead, you've simply thrown every name 8th graders throw at each other as insults.I do believe in freedom of expression and thought, and hell, I do agree with to an extent. There is a snowballs chance in hell that this team can win this division. But my comments weren't directed to your thoughts on what the sox will do, but moreso to the fact you think this season was a joke. I feel that is an indirect insult to the players that have tried their damndest to keep this team afloat under a lot of stress and when there just isn't much left to play with (Frank and maggs being gone).

I'm sorry if you don't agree with me on that, but there are quite a few things I can be quite proud of after this season is over and done with. Of course there are quite a few things to be ashamed of, like John Garlands cry baby antics, mike jacksons horrid ball play throughout the course of the year, joe borchards failure to make an impact, joe credes failure to not suck so hard, the failure of the 5th starter spot in the second half, the slow spots of juan uribe and willie harris in the middle infield, the awful play of jose valentin.

But all those seem kind of minor to me when coupled with the positives that this year has brought...like the acquisition of two big name pitchers, which we both signed to semi long term contracts!:bandance: The fact scott schoeneweiss was our freaking 5th starter ace in the first half of the season until the bone chip in his shoulder started aggravating him (I'm willing to give him another chance, esp over judy). The homerun capades of paul konerko damn near leading the AL after his worst season in the bigs. The overrall good defense this team has played throughout the entire year, minus the black hole of jose valentin. The 2 hit minimum against the best offense in the league, from future star mark buehrle. The rise of SHINGO time. The fall of the KOCH era. The return of crazy carl (I love the guy, he's no frank, but i love him anyways). The rise of Aaron Rowand being one of the premier players in the american league! (Best of all!). The fact we looked so DAMN good back when frank and magglio were on this team. The fact we are still even CONSIDERING ourselves in this race, even though maggs and frank are gone. The fact jose contreras has arisen from his new york slumber and basically dominated for his new team. The catching tandem of burke and davis both lighting offensive fires in most of their play time (For catchers at least!)

I've enjoyed a lot of this season, and really, I hate to agree with jay moronatti. A part of me felt this team couldn't survive if frank and maggs were both done for the season, so it hasn't been much of a bummer that they aren't going to win the central. But to really call this season a joke is kind of an insult, we got screwed by injuries, that basically sums it up. Sure we had a few train wrecks with certain players, but every team has them (Dye sure is lighting it up in oakland!). You need to start looking on the brighter side of life, you may be thinking, oh great, another year, another no pennant sox team. And I'm equally dissappointed, dont get me wrong, I wanted the sox to go all the way, but barring JR being a stupid DICK, then we should be fine for the next 3 years.

Hell, 4/5ths of our rotation is already locked thru the next few years! Hallellujah!

I apologize for coming on strong, but you really pissed me off with that bullcrap you said. It's irritating when people talk crap about something your trying to enjoy.

EDIT - I don't believe we will win the division. It would take an /blues brothers mission from god to get this team in the post season. But I still have hope, and I don't mind using the phrase BELIEVE, just because it's fun. Hell, look at my sig, I want to see exciting sox baseball down the stretch, pennant or no pennant. They can do me justice by giving this twins team a run for their money.

35thStChurros
09-07-2004, 01:19 AM
WHOA!!! I didnt realize what a commotion I would start by this thread. I understand we are all entitled to our opinoin, and I am firmly sticking with mine! I have lots of faith in my team, and until the end I will stick with them!!!!


magic number......19!!!!!!

WhiteSoxFan84
09-07-2004, 02:01 AM
Oh, and FYI our E# is 19 So we can afford to lose 15, so long as the twins lose out. So this division has gotta be ours, cause you know the twins can't beat 15 teams the rest of the year.
what's funny is NO, the Twins can not beat 15 teams the rest of the year. to do so they would have to play every team in the AL and a NL team, which I'm sure can not happen since interleague play is over and with a month left, it's kind of hard to play 2 game series vs. 15 different teams.


haha i know what u meant, but if you are going to make a negative point, u best reread every sentence.

balke
09-07-2004, 03:20 AM
This all reminds me of when we got trounced by the injuns, and I was listening to a radio personality on a cleveland station going nuts. "We gotta sell out every game, we're only 5 back from the Twins!!! Come on Cleveland, this is our year, we don't have to wait!!"

We know how that ended up. But hey, at least their fans went to the games :D:

SSN721
09-07-2004, 07:00 AM
I am still amazed with the amount of true optomists left on this board. Very refreshing after about a month of non-stop, although justified, negativity. I will confess that I still hold hope for this team. I dont know why I just do. Nothing backs up the idea that they have a streak in them that hasnt happened. The pitching matchups just dont seem there, and sweeping the Twins for the rest of the year seems highly unlikely. I would say crazier things have happened. But other then then in '69 with the Mets catching up with the Cubs I cant think of something more unlikely. But I will still hold out hope, and beleive. Even though history tells me I shouldnt. But I cant put the final nail in the coffin yet.

Soxzilla
09-07-2004, 01:36 PM
Hey, maybe in 20 years or so, we'll all be here at WSI in the thick of another losing pennant race and be like..."Hey, coming back from a deficit like this is nigh impossible, the only team i can think of that has done something more spectacular...are the 2004 white sox..":supernana:

Realist
09-07-2004, 01:39 PM
I do believe in freedom of expression and thought, and hell, I do agree with to an extent. There is a snowballs chance in hell that this team can win this division. But my comments weren't directed to your thoughts on what the sox will do, but moreso to the fact you think this season was a joke. I feel that is an indirect insult to the players that have tried their damndest to keep this team afloat under a lot of stress and when there just isn't much left to play with (Frank and maggs being gone).

I'm sorry if you don't agree with me on that, but there are quite a few things I can be quite proud of after this season is over and done with. Of course there are quite a few things to be ashamed of, like John Garlands cry baby antics, mike jacksons horrid ball play throughout the course of the year, joe borchards failure to make an impact, joe credes failure to not suck so hard, the failure of the 5th starter spot in the second half, the slow spots of juan uribe and willie harris in the middle infield, the awful play of jose valentin.

But all those seem kind of minor to me when coupled with the positives that this year has brought...like the acquisition of two big name pitchers, which we both signed to semi long term contracts!:bandance: The fact scott schoeneweiss was our freaking 5th starter ace in the first half of the season until the bone chip in his shoulder started aggravating him (I'm willing to give him another chance, esp over judy). The homerun capades of paul konerko damn near leading the AL after his worst season in the bigs. The overrall good defense this team has played throughout the entire year, minus the black hole of jose valentin. The 2 hit minimum against the best offense in the league, from future star mark buehrle. The rise of SHINGO time. The fall of the KOCH era. The return of crazy carl (I love the guy, he's no frank, but i love him anyways). The rise of Aaron Rowand being one of the premier players in the american league! (Best of all!). The fact we looked so DAMN good back when frank and magglio were on this team. The fact we are still even CONSIDERING ourselves in this race, even though maggs and frank are gone. The fact jose contreras has arisen from his new york slumber and basically dominated for his new team. The catching tandem of burke and davis both lighting offensive fires in most of their play time (For catchers at least!)

I've enjoyed a lot of this season, and really, I hate to agree with jay moronatti. A part of me felt this team couldn't survive if frank and maggs were both done for the season, so it hasn't been much of a bummer that they aren't going to win the central. But to really call this season a joke is kind of an insult, we got screwed by injuries, that basically sums it up. Sure we had a few train wrecks with certain players, but every team has them (Dye sure is lighting it up in oakland!). You need to start looking on the brighter side of life, you may be thinking, oh great, another year, another no pennant sox team. And I'm equally dissappointed, dont get me wrong, I wanted the sox to go all the way, but barring JR being a stupid DICK, then we should be fine for the next 3 years.

Hell, 4/5ths of our rotation is already locked thru the next few years! Hallellujah!

I apologize for coming on strong, but you really pissed me off with that bullcrap you said. It's irritating when people talk crap about something your trying to enjoy.

EDIT - I don't believe we will win the division. It would take an /blues brothers mission from god to get this team in the post season. But I still have hope, and I don't mind using the phrase BELIEVE, just because it's fun. Hell, look at my sig, I want to see exciting sox baseball down the stretch, pennant or no pennant. They can do me justice by giving this twins team a run for their money.This is really a great post. One of the beat ones I've read on this forum. The funny thing is, I pretty much agree with dcb33's point of view also.

This thread really reminds of me of something very profound that my priest said at my grandmother's funeral - "There can be no faith without doubt".

You really can't fault anyone for still believing the Sox can pull off a division championship this year and you really can't fault anyone for doubting it's going to happen. Only time will tell.

Go Sox!! :drunken:

39thandWallace
09-07-2004, 01:53 PM
At this point I am happy if they finish a few games out at least they are showing heart. They would get smoked in the playoffs anyway so winning the division would just be putting off the inevitable.

he_gone_89
09-07-2004, 03:56 PM
At this point I am happy if they finish a few games out at least they are showing heart. They would get smoked in the playoffs anyway so winning the division would just be putting off the inevitable.well,first off,the cleveland indians were looking like the hottest team in baseball for a while,until they lost against the twins when they were playing for 1st,a few weeks back. Now they have gone on a losing streak just like we did a few weeks back,so....they gone.

the Minnesota twins are not as good of a team on paper as they are on the field,much like us. However they can do something that we cannot,and that is,beating west coast teams on the west coast. They don't fare well against the yanks,a team we can beat,and they cant beat us on their field.

if we can change our losing ways in the left coast this weekend,it would help this ballclub mentally. And if we can beat the twins,tigers and royals in this last stretch,we will win the AL Central
It can be done,and it will be done:bandance:

also,if the bosox clinch the AL east,we would get the yankees,or vice versa,so bassically,we would have a good chance to make it into the ALCS

Soxzilla
09-07-2004, 08:22 PM
well,first off,the cleveland indians were looking like the hottest team in baseball for a while,until they lost against the twins when they were playing for 1st,a few weeks back. Now they have gone on a losing streak just like we did a few weeks back,so....they gone.

the Minnesota twins are not as good of a team on paper as they are on the field,much like us. However they can do something that we cannot,and that is,beating west coast teams on the west coast. They don't fare well against the yanks,a team we can beat,and they cant beat us on their field.

if we can change our losing ways in the left coast this weekend,it would help this ballclub mentally. And if we can beat the twins,tigers and royals in this last stretch,we will win the AL Central
It can be done,and it will be done:bandance:

also,if the bosox clinch the AL east,we would get the yankees,or vice versa,so bassically,we would have a good chance to make it into the ALCS
The regular season yankees are much different than the post season yankees.

And thanks for the props realist.:nod:

kittle42
09-07-2004, 10:05 PM
Hopefully, this thread will now go away.

Brian26
09-07-2004, 10:25 PM
Hopefully, this thread will now go away.
Talk about feeling like a fool. We win 5 out of 6 games and start to show some life, so of course it's the perfect time to throw in the towel, right? Once the manager gives up, there's no point. I might hit a couple of more games before the end of the month just because I love baseball and love going to the Cell, but it's disheartening to the nth degree to believe in a team and then get slapped in the face.

DrCrawdad
09-07-2004, 10:26 PM
I still have hope...
.
.
.
.
.
...That the Sox will win the World Series next year.

39thandWallace
09-08-2004, 03:58 AM
well,first off,the cleveland indians were looking like the hottest team in baseball for a while,until they lost against the twins when they were playing for 1st,a few weeks back. Now they have gone on a losing streak just like we did a few weeks back,so....they gone.

the Minnesota twins are not as good of a team on paper as they are on the field,much like us. However they can do something that we cannot,and that is,beating west coast teams on the west coast. They don't fare well against the yanks,a team we can beat,and they cant beat us on their field.

if we can change our losing ways in the left coast this weekend,it would help this ballclub mentally. And if we can beat the twins,tigers and royals in this last stretch,we will win the AL Central
It can be done,and it will be done:bandance:

also,if the bosox clinch the AL east,we would get the yankees,or vice versa,so bassically,we would have a good chance to make it into the ALCSYour birthday says it all....1988
I have been suffering with this team for over 20 years now and I know when a season is DONE AND THIS SEASON IS DONE. BRING ON THE BEARS!

Paulwny
09-08-2004, 09:51 AM
Let six jolly sox fans carry my coffin
Let six pretty gals come to carry my pall
Throw bunches of roses all over my coffin
Throw roses to deaden the clods as they fall

Oh, beat the drum slowly
And play the fife lowly
And play the dead march
As you carry me along

Take me to the green valley
And lay the earth o'er me
For I'm a White Sox fan
And I've waited too long :whiner:

Apologies to the writer of "Streets of Laredo"

Dan H
09-08-2004, 12:43 PM
Talk about feeling like a fool. We win 5 out of 6 games and start to show some life, so of course it's the perfect time to throw in the towel, right? Once the manager gives up, there's no point. I might hit a couple of more games before the end of the month just because I love baseball and love going to the Cell, but it's disheartening to the nth degree to believe in a team and then get slapped in the face.
That is how many of us felt the day of the White Flag Trade. It's seven years and counting.

smokeyburgess
09-08-2004, 12:48 PM
Always fight to the last out and things go well, it is more fun and fans appreciate it whether they admit it or not. I like your attitude.

Soxzilla
09-08-2004, 12:57 PM
Always fight to the last out and things go well, it is more fun and fans appreciate it whether they admit it or not. I like your attitude.
Unfortunately on too many occasions Joe Borchard has been our last out....that sums it all up right there.:(:

LVSoxFan
09-08-2004, 02:03 PM
Unfortunately on too many occasions Joe Borchard has been our last out....that sums it all up right there.:(:
Hope, it is said, is the instrument of the desperate.

Hey I went all three last weekend and even though they're out of it, they played well and it was good to see them win. I'll go to probably five more before month's end.

Like I said before, take this season for what it was. If they managed to stumble into the playoffs, they'd get smoked. And who wants to see that. Use this month to make sure that 2005 does NOT GO LIKE THIS YEAR.

JKryl
09-09-2004, 11:38 AM
Let me settle this once and for all. I put $20 on the Sox to win the series while in Vegas. They're going all the way! Of course, they may have given me those great odds for a reason...

PorkChopExpress
09-09-2004, 12:43 PM
In all seriousness (if you can do that) what are the Sox's chances of sweeping the Twins the rest of the year? Is it impossible? Is there even a small chance? If there is, then the title is by no means out of reach. The Sox can very easily put it out of reach in the next few days, but if they take a page out of Boston's, Florida's, Houston's books, and stage a late rally with some good ball (I know some of you don't think they have good ball in them), then there is still a chance. I like to think so anyway.

kittle42
09-09-2004, 01:28 PM
In all seriousness (if you can do that) what are the Sox's chances of sweeping the Twins the rest of the year? Is it impossible? Is there even a small chance?
You've got to give this up.

PorkChopExpress
09-09-2004, 01:34 PM
You've got to give this up.
Never die. Never surrender.

I wish I could give it up, but then what would I do, work? Right...

Soxzilla
09-09-2004, 01:37 PM
If houston can get hot....so can we!

We need to be like those pilots in die hard 2.

"HEY! If they can do it...SO CAN WE!":bandance:

PorkChopExpress
09-09-2004, 01:46 PM
If houston can get hot....so can we!

We need to be like those pilots in die hard 2.

"HEY! If they can do it...SO CAN WE!":bandance:
Nice "Die Hard 2" reference. It can be tough to work those in sometimes.

lonestar101285
09-10-2004, 04:51 PM
At this exact time (9/10/04, 4:23 PM CST) Twins: 79-60 (9 home games left, 14 road games) White Sox: 71-68 8 GB (10 home games left, 13 road games). Just look at who both teams play in order:
Twins: 4@DET, 3vCWS, 3vBAL, 3@CWS, 4@CLE, off day, 3@NYY, 3vCLE
White Sox: 3@ANA, off day, 3@MIN, 3vDET, 3vMIN, 4vKC, 3@DET, 4@KC

Twins: split vs DET, 2 out of 3 vs BAL, Split vs CLE, 1 out of 3 vs NYY, win 2 out of 3 vs CLE
SOX need then: 2 out of 3 vs ANA, Sweep DET, 3 out of 4 vs KC, 2 o 3 vs DET, 3 o 4 vs KC.

If it goes like this w/o the head to head: MIN: 9-8 or 8-9 (if NY sweeps them)
SOX: 13-4 or 12-5 (C'mon, they got to at least win 5 or 6 vs DET AND KC @ home)

If they even get as hot as i have listed (going 13-4), they still have to win at least 5 out of 6 vs MIN just to force a playoff. The sox are 6-1 in the dome, but are 1-5 @ home vs MIN this year. Realistically, does anyone think that we can get on a winning streak of 5 or more games when we have to throw a nobody out there every 5th day? That will be our doom, but as a Sox Fan, I sure hope that i am terribly wrong and the Twins have a major CHOKEJOB.

*(Assuming Santana pitches on Monday, we may not have to face him if they don't change their rotation)

ma-gaga
09-10-2004, 06:32 PM
You just listen to the old Porkchop Express here now, and take his advice on a dark and stormy night when the lightining's crashing and the thunder's rolling and the rain's coming down in sheets thick as lead, just remember what old Jack Burton does when the earth quakes and the poison arrows fall from the sky and the pillars of heaven shake, yeah Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says "gimme your best shot pal, I can take it." Best. Signature. Ever.

I don't have a lot to say on topic, but this thread definitely deserves a tomato award:

:tomatoaward

Spadelox17
09-11-2004, 11:07 AM
Ozzie Guillen has so far blown about 10 to 15 games by putting in rookie pitchers and starting struggling players like Jose Valentin and Joe Crede, how hard is it to leave Jamie Burke in the lineup and bringing up Kelly Dransfeldt. Wheres Kelly Wunsch!!!?? Instead you see Jon Adkins giving up homeruns to Vlad and the tired Marte giving up runs because the supposedly future gold glover, Crede, can't catch a ball like Chavez, Rolen or maybe even URIBE would. Ozzie will learn but if he doesnt, look for him to be the manager for the next 10 years.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 12:47 PM
Ozzie Guillen has so far blown about 10 to 15 games by putting in rookie pitchers and starting struggling players like Jose Valentin and Joe Crede, how hard is it to leave Jamie Burke in the lineup and bringing up Kelly Dransfeldt. Wheres Kelly Wunsch!!!?? Instead you see Jon Adkins giving up homeruns to Vlad and the tired Marte giving up runs because the supposedly future gold glover, Crede, can't catch a ball like Chavez, Rolen or maybe even URIBE would. Ozzie will learn but if he doesnt, look for him to be the manager for the next 10 years.
Ozzie has made plenty of mistakes but none of us should be surprised because he is a rookie manager. If the Sox were serious they would have gotten Tony LaRussa or Cito Gaston. But the Sox aren't serious and none of us can be surprised they chose Ozzie instead.

As for Ozzie playing incompetent ballplayers, that's not his fault. Blame the injuries to Frank and Maggs and the endless piles of garbage that Kenny Williams used to fill up the remainder of the Sox roster. Of course Kenny can only spend what his boss is willing to pay for... and we all know that ain't much. (See Guillen, Ozzie. Rookie Manager.)

:reinsy
"It's all your fault."

DumpJerry
09-11-2004, 05:21 PM
Ozzie has made plenty of mistakes but none of us should be surprised because he is a rookie manager. If the Sox were serious they would have gotten Tony LaRussa or Cito Gaston. But the Sox aren't serious and none of us can be surprised they chose Ozzie instead.

As for Ozzie playing incompetent ballplayers, that's not his fault. Blame the injuries to Frank and Maggs and the endless piles of garbage that Kenny Williams used to fill up the remainder of the Sox roster. Of course Kenny can only spend what his boss is willing to pay for... and we all know that ain't much. (See Guillen, Ozzie. Rookie Manager.)

:reinsy
"It's all your fault."I don't think LaRussa would have come to us. Gaston would have been a mistake. Gaston is cut from the same mold as Rusty Dusty. He would have left starters in too long, let head cases carry on too long and allow prima donnas run the team. I like Ozzie. He keeps the team loose and does not make them feel bad when they mess up (helps keep the confidence up for the next time the player hits the field or is at bat).

I think Ozzie will be a good hire in the long run. The more immediate problem is convincing Uncle Jerry to open up the wallet. The fact that MLB is charging $10 per seat (plus $5 for Hurricane relief) for the Marlins/Expos games show that after ten bucks, your ticket price goes to the team in profit pretty much (there is some offset for office salaries). This tells me that when you and several thousand others pluck down $35 for a ticket day after day, you give the team enough $$$ increase the payroll to the level of a major market team (ala the Flubs). If we give Ozzie some depth at key positions, he will bring home a winner.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2004, 06:18 PM
I don't think LaRussa would have come to us. Gaston would have been a mistake. Gaston is cut from the same mold as Rusty Dusty. He would have left starters in too long, let head cases carry on too long and allow prima donnas run the team. I like Ozzie. He keeps the team loose and does not make them feel bad when they mess up (helps keep the confidence up for the next time the player hits the field or is at bat)...
There was some definite interest by LaRussa last summer. He even left his team in the middle of a pennant chase to participate in an '83 team reunion. (That's more than Carlton Fisk did, BTW, and he only had to travel from Lockport.)

The reason LaRussa would never come to us is because Reinsdorf would never have given LaRussa what LaRussa would demand from the Sox to make the jump: authority to get the players he wanted and get rid of the players he didn't want regardless of the price. LaRussa would expect to be the defacto GM and Reinsdorf his defacto bank account. LaRussa would expect a serious major league salary, too. The Cardinals may have held LaRussa hostage, but Reinsdorf could have sweetened the pot and still gotten his first-choice manager. This last sentence should definitely be in deep pink.

So the choice for the Sox was obvious: somebody cheap, experience be damned.

Choosing between Ozzie or Gaston was strictly a choice of bridesmaids, a point John Kass quoted from me in the column he wrote last fall supporting Ozzie's candidacy. (It's the same column the front-page quote about WSI by Kass comes from.)

The White Sox are a second-tier (third-tier?) franchise. Until this changes we can forget about the Sox ever getting a manager the caliber of Tony LaRussa.