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hold2dibber
09-02-2004, 01:24 PM
With the report that Maggs won't be back, here's where how the end of '04 payroll compares with the beginning of he '04 payroll, as far as I can tell ...

Contracts Expiring/Coming Off of Opening Day '04 Payroll:

Loaiza $3.5 million
Valentin $5 million
Maggs $14 million
Schoenweiss $1.75 million
S. Alomar $750,000
Koch $6.375 million
Politte $800,000
TOTAL: $32.175 million

New Contracts Added For '05 Since Opening Day '04:

Garcia $9 million
Contreras $6 million
Everett $4 million (assuming he exercises his option)
TOTAL: $19 million

In addition, a few months back someone on here tallied up the expected raises of the guys who will be back next year and came up with $10 million. Add that to the $19 million in new salaries and we're looking at an opening day '05 payroll just $3.175 million less than last year, and several major holes in the roster.

My conclusion: the Sox need to try like hell to trade either Konerko or Lee for younger/cheaper players, preferably a high OBP position player and/or top tier relief pitcher(s) with live arms (e.g., Mota, B.J. Ryan, F-Rod, etc.). Then use the money saved to go hard after another starter, someone like Russ Ortiz, Pavano, etc. If you can land one of those guys, I'd also be content to deal Garland for younger, cheaper MLB-ready talent and then let Cotts/Diaz/Grilli/Munoz/cheap veteran FA fight it out for the 5th spot in the rotation.

SoxxoS
09-02-2004, 01:29 PM
That Everett deal hurts, now. 4 million is about 2.5 million too much.

I would like to see how the "10 million" in raises breaks down.

hold2dibber
09-02-2004, 01:38 PM
I would like to see how the "10 million" in raises breaks down.
I'm going to try to confirm that number at home tonight; no time now.

gosox63
09-02-2004, 01:40 PM
With the report that Maggs won't be back, here's where how the end of '04 payroll compares with the beginning of he '04 payroll, as far as I can tell ...

Contracts Expiring/Coming Off of Opening Day '04 Payroll:

Loaiza $3.5 million
Valentin $5 million
Maggs $14 million
Schoenweiss $1.75 million
S. Alomar $750,000
Koch $6.375 million
Politte $800,000
TOTAL: $32.175 million

New Contracts Added For '05 Since Opening Day '04:

Garcia $9 million
Contreras $6 million
Everett $4 million (assuming he exercises his option)
TOTAL: $19 million

In addition, a few months back someone on here tallied up the expected raises of the guys who will be back next year and came up with $10 million. Add that to the $19 million in new salaries and we're looking at an opening day '05 payroll just $3.175 million less than last year, and several major holes in the roster.

My conclusion: the Sox need to try like hell to trade either Konerko or Lee for younger/cheaper players, preferably a high OBP position player and/or top tier relief pitcher(s) with live arms (e.g., Mota, B.J. Ryan, F-Rod, etc.). Then use the money saved to go hard after another starter, someone like Russ Ortiz, Pavano, etc. If you can land one of those guys, I'd also be content to deal Garland for younger, cheaper MLB-ready talent and then let Cotts/Diaz/Grilli/Munoz/cheap veteran FA fight it out for the 5th spot in the rotation.



NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO----damnit, no more screwin around with this fifth starter BS. I've had it, just trade Lee/Konerko and get cash to add a quality arm in the rotation, move Garland to the 5th. I'm sick of forfeiting every fifth game, that was one of the major factors in us crappin out this year.

Dear god sign a starter and put Jon at #5:gulp:

kittle42
09-02-2004, 01:41 PM
My conclusion: the Sox need to try like hell to trade either Konerko or Lee for younger/cheaper players, preferably a high OBP position player and/or top tier relief pitcher(s) with live arms (e.g., Mota, B.J. Ryan, F-Rod, etc.). Then use the money saved to go hard after another starter, someone like Russ Ortiz, Pavano, etc. If you can land one of those guys, I'd also be content to deal Garland for younger, cheaper MLB-ready talent and then let Cotts/Diaz/Grilli/Munoz/cheap veteran FA fight it out for the 5th spot in the rotation.
How about JR just opens his coffers and acts like a major-market owner like the Trib did last year? Ahhhh, forget it!

SoxxoS
09-02-2004, 01:43 PM
I'm going to try to confirm that number at home tonight; no time now.
Thx dibbs

Soxzilla
09-02-2004, 02:16 PM
I say, depending on how grilli finishes up this season. You use judy as trade bait and grab a quality hitter. And let schoeneweis and grilli fight it out for the fifth starter.

Dub25
09-02-2004, 02:28 PM
I say, depending on how grilli finishes up this season. You use judy as trade bait and grab a quality hitter. And let schoeneweis and grilli fight it out for the fifth starter.
Is Scott S. or Grilli really the answer?

kittle42
09-02-2004, 02:38 PM
Is Scott S. or Grilli really the answer?
Seriously. People - the answer is NOT on this current team.

SoxxoS
09-02-2004, 02:59 PM
I say, depending on how grilli finishes up this season. You use judy as trade bait and grab a quality hitter. And let schoeneweis and grilli fight it out for the fifth starter.
THIS is the problem with Sox management. Relying on people (Danny Wright, Joe Crede, Shoenweis, Garland) just because they finish up strong...the commit the COMPLETE FALLACY of: "What happened in the past is a direct correlation of what will happen in the future." Their is a name for it (something "jumper?"). For example...if Grilli finishes up the season with a 3.50 ERA in his last starts...he will continue on that path have a 3.50 ERA next season. Crede had a 810 OPS in the second half! Wait until next year!

:chunks

KW cannot do that. Quit looking through your rose tinted glasses..."Showenweis is going to develop a cutter like Loiaza...he is going to be a solid pitcher. For that matter...we don't even need another 5th starter! :(:

kittle42
09-02-2004, 03:11 PM
KW cannot do that. Quit looking through your rose tinted glasses..."Showenweis is going to develop a cutter like Loiaza...he is going to be a solid pitcher. For that matter...we don't even need another 5th starter! :(:
Thank you. Some people here need to stop buying into JR's annual "bend us over" fest.

CubKilla
09-02-2004, 03:15 PM
Our owner's cheap. Our GM is an idiot. They'll screw it up. I have ZERO optimism for the 2005 White Sox at this point. When the Twins are done owning us the Indians will take their place.

owensmouth
09-02-2004, 03:28 PM
Why spend any of the 14 million? The White Sox have to earn it first, and without Magglio, the numbers will be down. The amount that the organization will take in may off by that same amount. White Sox fans will not support a fourth place team.

SoxxoS
09-02-2004, 03:38 PM
Why spend any of the 14 million? The White Sox have to earn it first, and without Magglio, the numbers will be down. The amount that the organization will take in may off by that same amount. White Sox fans will not support a fourth place team.
I've been waiting for you to start posting, Mr. Reinsdorf.

batmanZoSo
09-02-2004, 04:23 PM
With the report that Maggs won't be back, here's where how the end of '04 payroll compares with the beginning of he '04 payroll, as far as I can tell ...

Contracts Expiring/Coming Off of Opening Day '04 Payroll:

Loaiza $3.5 million
Valentin $5 million
Maggs $14 million
Schoenweiss $1.75 million
S. Alomar $750,000
Koch $6.375 million
Politte $800,000
TOTAL: $32.175 million

New Contracts Added For '05 Since Opening Day '04:

Garcia $9 million
Contreras $6 million
Everett $4 million (assuming he exercises his option)
TOTAL: $19 million

In addition, a few months back someone on here tallied up the expected raises of the guys who will be back next year and came up with $10 million. Add that to the $19 million in new salaries and we're looking at an opening day '05 payroll just $3.175 million less than last year, and several major holes in the roster.

My conclusion: the Sox need to try like hell to trade either Konerko or Lee for younger/cheaper players, preferably a high OBP position player and/or top tier relief pitcher(s) with live arms (e.g., Mota, B.J. Ryan, F-Rod, etc.). Then use the money saved to go hard after another starter, someone like Russ Ortiz, Pavano, etc. If you can land one of those guys, I'd also be content to deal Garland for younger, cheaper MLB-ready talent and then let Cotts/Diaz/Grilli/Munoz/cheap veteran FA fight it out for the 5th spot in the rotation.
We filled the park more this year, so it's time to increase the payroll. Who says we have to remain the same in that category? How bout you spend a little for a change?

Win1ForMe
09-02-2004, 04:48 PM
I'm going to try to confirm that number at home tonight; no time now.Here are the raises (not salaries) of our players:

Buehrle - $2.75
Konerko - $.750k
Lee - $1.5 M
Marte - $1 M
Shingo - $1.75 M
Frank - $2 M

Arbitration increases to Rowand, Uribe, and Garland will total around at least $3M.

So you're really looking at $13 M (12.75) increase, and not a $10 M one. And next year's payroll is already pretty much even with this year's opening day one.

A. Cavatica
09-02-2004, 05:01 PM
Magglio's gone? Good! We can treat ourselves to a full season of Everett and Alomar!

I_Liked_Manuel
09-02-2004, 05:51 PM
i would feel pretty optimistic if they brought back schoeneweis for the 5th starter spot...and i'm not being sarcastic. when he was healthy, he was leading the a.l. in quality starts. obviously the question of health will float around him all year, but when he was healthy his stuff was good- much better than garland's (which i know isnt a great comparison).

akingamongstmen
09-02-2004, 05:59 PM
i would feel pretty optimistic if they brought back schoeneweis for the 5th starter spot...and i'm not being sarcastic. when he was healthy, he was leading the a.l. in quality starts. obviously the question of health will float around him all year, but when he was healthy his stuff was good- much better than garland's (which i know isnt a great comparison).
You're forgetting that Schoeneweis is one of the biggest whiners in MLB. I get the feeling that Ozzie and the rest of the team can't stand him. Plus, he's never had any extended success. Toss in the injury, and you've got another piece of garbage pitching for the Sox next year (if they choose to bring him back). Do Not sign him...he's a bum.

Clembasbal
09-02-2004, 05:59 PM
Buehrle - $2.75
Konerko - $.750k
Lee - $1.5 M
Marte - $1 M
Shingo - $1.75 M
Frank - $2 M

Arbitration increases to Rowand, Uribe, and Garland will total around at least $3M.


That's if we keep Shingo, and Frank says he wants to stay...a $2 million increase seems a lot.

Also, though Rowand and Uribe will win a lot of money in arbitration, Garland will not.

WE have increased attendance, just like Uncle Jerry asked us to do. Therefore he must fork out money - but that be asking for too much:whiner:

Clembasbal
09-02-2004, 06:39 PM
Speaking of getting rid of Konerko because he is GIDPaulie (which I agree with). He has grounded into a Double Play 4% of the time he bats, which I find hilarious because that number even takes into account times when runners are not on first base and it counts at bats which take place with two outs



I am sure it is higher when there is a guy on first base and less than two outs, but I can't find it anywhere.



Also, he is tied for 24th all time for most GIDP's in a season with whom else!!!! Magglio Ordonez, who does it often as well - ironic how we are talking about him as well.



There is still a month less and Jim Rice's record might be in jeopardy (doubt it - 36 and 35 respectively).



He is also only 60 away from all time top 20 first basemen only after 7 years, while Magglio is only 50 away from the top 20 right fielders only after 7 years (by the way the number is 174 for each).



I think that they both are over paid PERIOD!



So, rid the team of both, and throw Frank in that mix and you get rid of $30 million...more than half the payroll.

hold2dibber
09-02-2004, 06:45 PM
So, rid the team of both, and throw Frank in that mix and you get rid of $30 million...more than half the payroll.
Actually, that's less than half the payroll (about $63 million this year, I believe).

Also, you get rid of Maggs, Frank and PK and you have ... not much offense. I say keep Frank - he is an OBP machine, and that's exactly what this team needs.

fusillirob1983
09-02-2004, 09:36 PM
Frank Thomas is a bargain at next year's salary, even though it's $2 million more than this year.

owensmouth
09-03-2004, 03:20 AM
I do hope that both Uribe and Garland file for arbitration. Neither deserves a raise.

Garland will have to explain why he threw all those gopher balls.

Uribe will have to explain his .140 average for the months of June and July.

They'll both lose their cases.

Soxzilla
09-03-2004, 04:36 AM
THIS is the problem with Sox management. Relying on people (Danny Wright, Joe Crede, Shoenweis, Garland) just because they finish up strong...the commit the COMPLETE FALLACY of: "What happened in the past is a direct correlation of what will happen in the future." Their is a name for it (something "jumper?"). For example...if Grilli finishes up the season with a 3.50 ERA in his last starts...he will continue on that path have a 3.50 ERA next season. Crede had a 810 OPS in the second half! Wait until next year!

:chunks

KW cannot do that. Quit looking through your rose tinted glasses..."Showenweis is going to develop a cutter like Loiaza...he is going to be a solid pitcher. For that matter...we don't even need another 5th starter! :(:
I completely disagree. Scott proved early in the season that he has the talent to be a big league pitcher in that number 5 spot. And who cares if he whines? He can't be any worse that "I dont pitch for the fans" garland? I say, depending on what scott does in spring training, we keep him on board for the 5 starter spot and save some cash. Trade garland for some offense or bullpen help. Grab a big named free agent starting pitcher for the number 3 spot, and then grab another bat of some kind.

How sexy would this 2005 lineup be....

Buehrle - Garcia - Perez - Contreras - Schoeneweis

Adkins - Cotts (Boy he's coming around...) - Marte - Shingo - 2 good FA Relievers

CF - Rowand
SS - Uribe
LF - Lee
DH - Thomas
1B - Konerko
2B - Soriano
RF - Everett
3B - Anyone but Crede
C - Davis

Bench...

Burke-Gload-Harris-Timo

Some obvious offensive weakspots, but hopefully you can solve those by dealing garland.crede.timo....

hold2dibber
09-03-2004, 09:09 AM
I completely disagree. Scott proved early in the season that he has the talent to be a big league pitcher in that number 5 spot. And who cares if he whines? He can't be any worse that "I dont pitch for the fans" garland? I say, depending on what scott does in spring training, we keep him on board for the 5 starter spot and save some cash. Trade garland for some offense or bullpen help. Grab a big named free agent starting pitcher for the number 3 spot, and then grab another bat of some kind.

How sexy would this 2005 lineup be....

Buehrle - Garcia - Perez - Contreras - Schoeneweis

Adkins - Cotts (Boy he's coming around...) - Marte - Shingo - 2 good FA Relievers

CF - Rowand
SS - Uribe
LF - Lee
DH - Thomas
1B - Konerko
2B - Soriano
RF - Everett
3B - Anyone but Crede
C - Davis

Bench...

Burke-Gload-Harris-Timo

Some obvious offensive weakspots, but hopefully you can solve those by dealing garland.crede.timo....
That's completely unrealistic. How do the Sox add Soriano at 2B? Do you think the Rangers would trade him for Garland? No way - it would take Buehrle to get him. And by adding Perez and Soriano and re-signing Schoenweiss and adding "2 good FA relievers" you're adding about $20 million to the opening day payroll -- I doubt that even the most optimistic among us thinks that JR will raise payroll that much. Finally - I still don't like the lineup. The Sox need to shake up the core of this team, and get some different types of players. Your lineup is basically the same as this year's, except you replace Valentin with Soriano and Maggs with Everett. Pretty much a wash, and the team remains free swinging, low OBP, homer-or-nothing on offense.

Paid Santiago
09-03-2004, 01:00 PM
I completely disagree. Scott proved early in the season that he has the talent to be a big league pitcher in that number 5 spot. And who cares if he whines? He can't be any worse that "I dont pitch for the fans" garland? I say, depending on what scott does in spring training, we keep him on board for the 5 starter spot and save some cash. Trade garland for some offense or bullpen help. Grab a big named free agent starting pitcher for the number 3 spot, and then grab another bat of some kind.

How sexy would this 2005 lineup be....

Buehrle - Garcia - Perez - Contreras - Schoeneweis

Adkins - Cotts (Boy he's coming around...) - Marte - Shingo - 2 good FA Relievers

CF - Rowand
SS - Uribe
LF - Lee
DH - Thomas
1B - Konerko
2B - Soriano
RF - Everett
3B - Anyone but Crede
C - Davis

Bench...

Burke-Gload-Harris-Timo

Some obvious offensive weakspots, but hopefully you can solve those by dealing garland.crede.timo....
duh duh duh
first thing first goodbye magglio, goodbye jose :(


trade konerko & jon garland & some minor league throw in for good on base percentage lead off man(and damn good outfielder) brad wilkerson & (good on base percentage and big time potential man) nick johnson & henry mateo


RF. wilkerson (lefty bat) .265 avg 15 home runs 20 steals, .375 obp
2B willie harris L .270 avg 4 home runs, 43 steals, .365 obp
DH frank thomas R .310 30 home runs 100 rbi, .450 obp
1B nick johnson L .294 25 homers, .380 obp (AND DAMN GOOD DEFENSE)
LF. CARLOS LEE R .300 avg 30 homers 100 rbi
C. Ben davis L .254 12 homers, .290 obp( good game calling and good d)
Cf. Aaron Rowand/Joe borchard R or L if its aaron he will hit .275, 15 homers , .330 obp & 20 steals . WHO KNOWS JOE COULD BREAK OUT :?:
3B. JOE crede R .260 25 home runs(solid defense)
ss. Juan uribe .270, 15 home runs, 20 steals, .305 obp. If the twins can live with christian guzman we can live with uribe.

Pitching staff.

1.Garcia
2.Buerhle
3. Contreras
4. Odalis Perez or carl pavano(MOST LIKELY PEREZ, HES YOUNGER AND WILL BE CHEAPER AND IS A GEM!!!!!!)
5. FELIX Diaz or Cotts(I HOPE TO GOD DIAZ!!!)

go sign steve kline & scott williamson to sure up the bullpen.

Closer : Scott wiliamson 35 saves yes sir!!!
set up RHP : SHINGO solid season as set up man probably 3.10 e.r.a.
SET UP LHP : dAMASO MARTE solid season now with another lefty in the bullpen
Middle relief : Steve Kline
Long relief : COTTS & ADKINS

bench

1.everett
2. timo
3. gload 1b/LF/RF/
4. henry mateo 2B/3B/SS switch hitter who is speedy he could be a damn good pinch runner and help us be that aggresive team.


Is this team feasible within our payroll restrictions and what do you guys think?


I think that team could win the division and be primed for a post-season

pinwheels3530
09-03-2004, 01:04 PM
duh duh duh
first thing first goodbye magglio, goodbye jose :(


trade konerko & jon garland & some minor league throw in for good on base percentage lead off man(and damn good outfielder) brad wilkerson & (good on base percentage and big time potential man) nick johnson & henry mateo


RF. wilkerson (lefty bat) .265 avg 15 home runs 20 steals, .375 obp
2B willie harris L .270 avg 4 home runs, 43 steals, .365 obp
DH frank thomas R .310 30 home runs 100 rbi, .450 obp
1B nick johnson L .294 25 homers, .380 obp (AND DAMN GOOD DEFENSE)
LF. CARLOS LEE R .300 avg 30 homers 100 rbi
C. Ben davis L .254 12 homers, .290 obp( good game calling and good d)
Cf. Aaron Rowand/Joe borchard R or L if its aaron he will hit .275, 15 homers , .330 obp & 20 steals . WHO KNOWS JOE COULD BREAK OUT :?:
3B. JOE crede R .260 25 home runs(solid defense)
ss. Juan uribe .270, 15 home runs, 20 steals, .305 obp. If the twins can live with christian guzman we can live with uribe.

Pitching staff.

1.Garcia
2.Buerhle
3. Contreras
4. Odalis Perez or carl pavano(MOST LIKELY PEREZ, HES YOUNGER AND WILL BE CHEAPER AND IS A GEM!!!!!!)
5. FELIX Diaz or Cotts(I HOPE TO GOD DIAZ!!!)

go sign steve kline & scott williamson to sure up the bullpen.

Closer : Scott wiliamson 35 saves yes sir!!!
set up RHP : SHINGO solid season as set up man probably 3.10 e.r.a.
SET UP LHP : dAMASO MARTE solid season now with another lefty in the bullpen
Middle relief : Steve Kline
Long relief : COTTS & ADKINS

bench

1.everett
2. timo
3. gload 1b/LF/RF/
4. henry mateo 2B/3B/SS switch hitter who is speedy he could be a damn good pinch runner and help us be that aggresive team.


Is this team feasible within our payroll restrictions and what do you guys think?


I think that team could win the division and be primed for a post-season
Get Pavano and Perez!!!!

balke
09-03-2004, 01:12 PM
duh duh duh
first thing first goodbye magglio, goodbye jose :(


trade konerko & jon garland & some minor league throw in for good on base percentage lead off man(and damn good outfielder) brad wilkerson & (good on base percentage and big time potential man) nick johnson & henry mateo


RF. wilkerson (lefty bat) .265 avg 15 home runs 20 steals, .375 obp
2B willie harris L .270 avg 4 home runs, 43 steals, .365 obp
DH frank thomas R .310 30 home runs 100 rbi, .450 obp
1B nick johnson L .294 25 homers, .380 obp (AND DAMN GOOD DEFENSE)
LF. CARLOS LEE R .300 avg 30 homers 100 rbi
C. Ben davis L .254 12 homers, .290 obp( good game calling and good d)
Cf. Aaron Rowand/Joe borchard R or L if its aaron he will hit .275, 15 homers , .330 obp & 20 steals . WHO KNOWS JOE COULD BREAK OUT :?:
3B. JOE crede R .260 25 home runs(solid defense)
ss. Juan uribe .270, 15 home runs, 20 steals, .305 obp. If the twins can live with christian guzman we can live with uribe.

Pitching staff.

1.Garcia
2.Buerhle
3. Contreras
4. Odalis Perez or carl pavano(MOST LIKELY PEREZ, HES YOUNGER AND WILL BE CHEAPER AND IS A GEM!!!!!!)
5. FELIX Diaz or Cotts(I HOPE TO GOD DIAZ!!!)

go sign steve kline & scott williamson to sure up the bullpen.

Closer : Scott wiliamson 35 saves yes sir!!!
set up RHP : SHINGO solid season as set up man probably 3.10 e.r.a.
SET UP LHP : dAMASO MARTE solid season now with another lefty in the bullpen
Middle relief : Steve Kline
Long relief : COTTS & ADKINS

bench

1.everett
2. timo
3. gload 1b/LF/RF/
4. henry mateo 2B/3B/SS switch hitter who is speedy he could be a damn good pinch runner and help us be that aggresive team.


Is this team feasible within our payroll restrictions and what do you guys think?


I think that team could win the division and be primed for a post-season
Kline loves the Cardinals, he's not going anywhere. He'd have to get a new hat. But not a bad pick for your bullpen. It'll probably be Grili before Diaz next season.

SOXSINCE'70
09-03-2004, 01:17 PM
Get Pavano and Perez!!!!In a realisitc world,you'd be right.But the task rests in KW's hands.
His impossible mission (theme from the TV series "Mission:Impossible"
playing in the background) :convince Reinsdork that pitching and defense win championships and if you want that championship on the South Side,you'd better let the moths out of your wallet (and convince your investors to do the same).Chicago is not a mid-market,no matter what anyone thinks.That payroll better be in the 80's if you want to think about competing.

Aw,who the hell am I kidding??????:kneeslap: :kneeslap:

balke
09-03-2004, 01:31 PM
What would ya'll think if we traded up Garland/rowand for Randy Johnson somehow. (completely unrealistic but so are a lot of these acquisition ideas). Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if kenny takes a shot at the guy. who would be worth giving up for RJ?

SoxxoS
09-03-2004, 01:34 PM
What would ya'll think if we traded up Garland/rowand for Randy Johnson somehow. (completely unrealistic but so are a lot of these acquisition ideas). Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if kenny takes a shot at the guy. who would be worth giving up for RJ?
We don't need just Randy Johnson. We need an overhaul of a bunch of players. Randy would obviously be nice, but we have other pressing needs to worry about. Like 3rd base, left field, 2nd base and short stop.

hold2dibber
09-03-2004, 02:37 PM
duh duh duh
first thing first goodbye magglio, goodbye jose :(


trade konerko & jon garland & some minor league throw in for good on base percentage lead off man(and damn good outfielder) brad wilkerson & (good on base percentage and big time potential man) nick johnson & henry mateo


RF. wilkerson (lefty bat) .265 avg 15 home runs 20 steals, .375 obp
2B willie harris L .270 avg 4 home runs, 43 steals, .365 obp
DH frank thomas R .310 30 home runs 100 rbi, .450 obp
1B nick johnson L .294 25 homers, .380 obp (AND DAMN GOOD DEFENSE)
LF. CARLOS LEE R .300 avg 30 homers 100 rbi
C. Ben davis L .254 12 homers, .290 obp( good game calling and good d)
Cf. Aaron Rowand/Joe borchard R or L if its aaron he will hit .275, 15 homers , .330 obp & 20 steals . WHO KNOWS JOE COULD BREAK OUT :?:
3B. JOE crede R .260 25 home runs(solid defense)
ss. Juan uribe .270, 15 home runs, 20 steals, .305 obp. If the twins can live with christian guzman we can live with uribe.

Pitching staff.

1.Garcia
2.Buerhle
3. Contreras
4. Odalis Perez or carl pavano(MOST LIKELY PEREZ, HES YOUNGER AND WILL BE CHEAPER AND IS A GEM!!!!!!)
5. FELIX Diaz or Cotts(I HOPE TO GOD DIAZ!!!)

go sign steve kline & scott williamson to sure up the bullpen.

Closer : Scott wiliamson 35 saves yes sir!!!
set up RHP : SHINGO solid season as set up man probably 3.10 e.r.a.
SET UP LHP : dAMASO MARTE solid season now with another lefty in the bullpen
Middle relief : Steve Kline
Long relief : COTTS & ADKINS

bench

1.everett
2. timo
3. gload 1b/LF/RF/
4. henry mateo 2B/3B/SS switch hitter who is speedy he could be a damn good pinch runner and help us be that aggresive team.


Is this team feasible within our payroll restrictions and what do you guys think?


I think that team could win the division and be primed for a post-season
I don't think it's feasible from a payroll perspective (you'd be subtracting PK and Garland, probably about $11 million total, and adding Wilkerson, Johnson, Mateo, Perez, Kline and Williamson - probably about $16 million total) and I don't think Montreal would have any interest in Konerko (unless they find some big $ owner who wants to make a splash). But I like your thinking in general. You'd probably have to sweeten the deal to get Montreal to bite (e.g., add Diaz or Munoz or Borchard, etc. and maybe Adkins) and you'd also probably have to trade Lee for someone cheap (maybe you trade him for a cheap bullpen arm, like Mota), particularly since you have Everett who can play LF and put up numbers pretty comparable to Lee's.

Soxzilla
09-03-2004, 04:08 PM
That's completely unrealistic. How do the Sox add Soriano at 2B? Do you think the Rangers would trade him for Garland? No way - it would take Buehrle to get him. And by adding Perez and Soriano and re-signing Schoenweiss and adding "2 good FA relievers" you're adding about $20 million to the opening day payroll -- I doubt that even the most optimistic among us thinks that JR will raise payroll that much. Finally - I still don't like the lineup. The Sox need to shake up the core of this team, and get some different types of players. Your lineup is basically the same as this year's, except you replace Valentin with Soriano and Maggs with Everett. Pretty much a wash, and the team remains free swinging, low OBP, homer-or-nothing on offense.
Rangers are looking to dump soriano if they don't make the post season this year. Soriano is making 5 million this year, and he ISNT due for a big raise after the mild season he has (Compared with his potential, hence why texas is going to dump him). The only problem with that is, we can't afford the yankees to want him, cuz it would be ludicrous to get into a bidding war with them. And we should be a homer or nothing team, you think we will survive playing small ball in the cell? No, hell no, teams like oakland, boston, and the indians are going to slug the hell out of us when they roll into town. No matter how good our pitching is.

We need an offense that can consistently score 5 runs per game, and i think the lineup a provided (Add a 3B), could do that. As long as a few things happen (IE - Lee shortening up his swing, Soriano shortening up his swing, you don't have to take big cuts to hit a ball out of the cell).

Oh and btw, perez makes a little over 3 million this year, obviously he will get a large raise. But i think your 20 million (For all players involved) is overshooting quite a bit. I mean, we don't have to go out and sign the urbinas of the league...just some decent relievers that can you get some damn outs.

And santiago, your lineup is good, but it still has crede and diaz in it. We won't even survive to get to that strong bullpen if we throw a guy like diaz out there. He doesn't have any talent, and he isn't just going to FIND it by the time spring training rolls around.

And crede...he has the ugliest swing of anyone ive ever seen, he won't change, so he needs to get DUMPED.

hold2dibber
09-03-2004, 04:21 PM
Rangers are looking to dump soriano if they don't make the post season this year. Soriano is making 5 million this year, and he ISNT due for a big raise after the mild season he has (Compared with his potential, hence why texas is going to dump him). The only problem with that is, we can't afford the yankees to want him, cuz it would be ludicrous to get into a bidding war with them. And we should be a homer or nothing team, you think we will survive playing small ball in the cell? No, hell no, teams like oakland, boston, and the indians are going to slug the hell out of us when they roll into town. No matter how good our pitching is.
I also have heard that the Rangers will be looking to move Soriano, but again, I think they'll be able to get more than Jon Garland for him. I'd be surprised if they can't pry away a no. 2 or no. 3 starter from someone (unlike Garland, who is a 4 or 5). And I completely agree that the Sox should not be a small ball team; bunting and slapping hitting singles guys do not a potent offense make. But that doesn't mean they should be a homer or nothing team; that's nuts. To be a good, consistent offensive team, they need more high OBP guys so that the solo shots become 2 and 3 run homers and so they can manufacture the occassional run. Soriano is not a high OBP guy (unless he hits .330).

Oh and btw, perez makes a little over 3 million this year, obviously he will get a large raise. But i think your 20 million (For all players involved) is overshooting quite a bit. I mean, we don't have to go out and sign the urbinas of the league...just some decent relievers that can you get some damn outs.
I would think that Perez will get about $7 million per year. Good veteran relief pitchers are about $3 million/year (see the deals Flash Gordon and Scott Sullivan signed last off season). That's $13 million right there, and Soriano's going to make at least $6 million next year, I would think. Plus Schoenweiss is somewhere between $1 and $2 million. Voila! You're at $20 million.

Win1ForMe
09-03-2004, 04:29 PM
Soriano is exactly the type of player we don't need. He's the Jose Valentin of 2nd Basemen.

kittle42
09-03-2004, 04:49 PM
The only thing worse than hot stove league ridiculous trade talk is pre-hot stove league ridiculous trade talk.

pinwheels3530
09-03-2004, 05:01 PM
In a realisitc world,you'd be right.But the task rests in KW's hands.
His impossible mission (theme from the TV series "Mission:Impossible"
playing in the background) :convince Reinsdork that pitching and defense win championships and if you want that championship on the South Side,you'd better let the moths out of your wallet (and convince your investors to do the same).Chicago is not a mid-market,no matter what anyone thinks.That payroll better be in the 80's if you want to think about competing.

Aw,who the hell am I kidding??????:kneeslap: :kneeslap:
:sellreinsy

"Baseball is a passion I never got in it for the money":kneeslap:

Tragg
09-03-2004, 11:32 PM
THIS is the problem with Sox management. Relying on people (Danny Wright, Joe Crede, Shoenweis, Garland) just because they finish up strong...the commit the COMPLETE FALLACY of: "What happened in the past is a direct correlation of what will happen in the future." ...he is going to be a solid pitcher. :(: That's true, but if we just trade konerko/lee for a pitcher, we have the same situation at 4 positions on the field; who hits for us, Ross Gload?

SoxxoS
09-03-2004, 11:42 PM
That's true, but if we just trade konerko/lee for a pitcher, we have the same situation at 4 positions on the field; who hits for us, Ross Gload?
We will know what the options are at the end of the season...look at a guy like Ryan Freel from Cincy (just as an example). 28 SB...375 OPB (or something like that)...solid D that won't cost a lot. A "grinder." Those are the options we need to be looking at.

pinwheels3530
09-03-2004, 11:49 PM
We don't need just Randy Johnson. We need an overhaul of a bunch of players. Randy would obviously be nice, but we have other pressing needs to worry about. Like 3rd base, left field, 2nd base and short stop.

Left Field??? :kukoo:

Soxzilla
09-04-2004, 12:04 AM
I also have heard that the Rangers will be looking to move Soriano, but again, I think they'll be able to get more than Jon Garland for him. I'd be surprised if they can't pry away a no. 2 or no. 3 starter from someone (unlike Garland, who is a 4 or 5). And I completely agree that the Sox should not be a small ball team; bunting and slapping hitting singles guys do not a potent offense make. But that doesn't mean they should be a homer or nothing team; that's nuts. To be a good, consistent offensive team, they need more high OBP guys so that the solo shots become 2 and 3 run homers and so they can manufacture the occassional run. Soriano is not a high OBP guy (unless he hits .330).


I would think that Perez will get about $7 million per year. Good veteran relief pitchers are about $3 million/year (see the deals Flash Gordon and Scott Sullivan signed last off season). That's $13 million right there, and Soriano's going to make at least $6 million next year, I would think. Plus Schoenweiss is somewhere between $1 and $2 million. Voila! You're at $20 million.
I'm all up for them grabbing guys that can get on base at a better clip then some of our current players (I'm all for replacing borchard, crede, valentin and uribe (super utility)). I was just using soriano because he's a big name that quickly popped into my head, and he's not THAT expensive, he can hit the big fly, he can run and he would take the heat off of losing magglio A LITTLE BIT. He would also give frank and konerko and lee better pitches to look at, because he's an all star with his bat (Obviously not his glove), and I'm ALL for giving those big boppers good at bats.

What people fail to realize, is that if we go small ball or whatever, and keep a few of those guys, like frank and lee on board. Those guys won't get nearly as good of pitches, because the likes of a konerko are gone behind them. Don't get me wrong, I will yearn for the days when we become a psuedo small ball team, and the inning comes up where frank leads off with a double, they walk carlos, our big name FA prototypical small ball hitter like rentaria lines hard to the outfield and we end up the bases loaded. And then a uribe or davis comes up and grounds into a double play, we score one run and the rally is over.

:bandance:

Ok say perez garners 7 million, and we nab soriano for 6 million (Which would be good deals!:bandance: (Your basically replacing maggs with perez and soriano and keeping a mill!). To nab a couple FA relievers it isnt going to cost us 6 million dollars, thats nuts. We don't NEED a gordon or a sullivan, we just need someone that will keep his era around 3.5, get some big outs and keep us in ball games. Like let's see, a bj ryan? (1.2 mill), a Juan rincon? (300k), a JC romero? (800k), a bob howry? (1 mill). There is cheap GOOD talent (Different than cheap no talent, see Mike Jackson in our white sox indexes) out there, lets just hope that kenny williams can find it.

And I'm sure with dealing garland and crede, you can find a serviceable third baseman and a decent reliever somewhere....Hell, look no further than the very own sox pitcher burial ground slash resident cubs farm system, the pittsburgh pirates. Sure jose mesa might be 300 years old, but he's pitching like crazy down there, makes 800k. And color me crazy, wouldn't Robbie M. look great in silver in black?:gulp: