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View Full Version : Ordonez will not be tendered an offer per Bruce Levine.


CWWTWS1
09-02-2004, 10:16 AM
Take it for what it's worth. Magglio's era is over, folks.

Palehose Pete
09-02-2004, 10:27 AM
I'm speechless. :angry:

I guess I'll just wait until the Cubs sign up Maggs. I'll have to move to a cave on the Moon and live under a rock to avoid the all of the Flubbie taunts when that happens.

Deadguy
09-02-2004, 10:31 AM
This is probably more indicative of how serious Magglio's injury is, than anything else. All I can say is that I'm thankful Magglio is greedy, and accepted none of our offers. He was overrated and getting a bit too egotistical anyways.

Frater Perdurabo
09-02-2004, 10:34 AM
If this is true, and Maggs has played his last game in a Sox uniform, then I will be heartbroken. However, if the Sox believe that his injury will keep him from returning to form, then this is, sadly, the wiser business decision.

SSN721
09-02-2004, 10:36 AM
I am not suprised, but I agree, I think it does have a lot to do with his injury. Perhaps we already tried to sign him just for a year after this injury became more serious before we would sign him long term. I think if he turned that down might be stupid, who knows how he will perform now. Hopefully well, I have no anger towards Maggs and hope he does do well wherever he ends up. Its just business, not personal. Shame things didnt work out better.

Jerry_Manuel
09-02-2004, 10:47 AM
I assume we're talking about arbitration here. They can only offer him a certain percentage less than he made this season.

I don't know the percentage off hand, but I'd guess the lowest they can offer him would be 10-11 million.

thepaulbowski
09-02-2004, 10:50 AM
I'll be suprised if Magglio starts for anybody on opening day next year. I think there is a lot more to this injury than is being reported. I'm still looking at the Magglio & Frank watch in the papers for my information.

MisterB
09-02-2004, 10:50 AM
I assume we're talking about arbitration here. They can only offer him a certain percentage less than he made this season.

I don't know the percentage off hand, but I'd guess the lowest they can offer him would be 10-11 million.
$11.2M (80% of $14M)

Jerry_Manuel
09-02-2004, 11:06 AM
$11.2M (80% of $14M)
Thanks, B.

No way I would give out that much money to a guy who's status is up in the air.

pinwheels3530
09-02-2004, 11:06 AM
This is probably more indicative of how serious Magglio's injury is, than anything else. All I can say is that I'm thankful Magglio is greedy, and accepted none of our offers. He was overrated and getting a bit too egotistical anyways.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

CWWTWS1
09-02-2004, 11:11 AM
Overrated? Yes, that is why this team is below .500.:?:

IlliniSox
09-02-2004, 11:12 AM
I'm speechless. :angry:

I guess I'll just wait until the Cubs sign up Maggs. I'll have to move to a cave on the Moon and live under a rock to avoid the all of the Flubbie taunts when that happens.We can split a Ryder Truck. How are the schools and restaurants on the moon?

GiveMeSox
09-02-2004, 11:13 AM
Take it for what it's worth. Magglio's era is over, folks.
I think the first thing Maggs should do is fire his agent(s). With this whole problem stemming from the collision in may there was plenty of time to accept the sox offer that was on the table. Something like 5 years 60 mil with the last deffered and 1st 4 up front. I remember around the time he came back they shut down negotiations. Too bad for Maggs he should have signed before when the going was gone, or his agents should have accepted and not rejected. I was hoping to see some loyalty from either side this offseason in trying to at least make an offer, whether is be 1 year incentive laden (get back to normal play) for maggs. Im sad to see him ago, although i do really think his baseball career will never be the same again. Prove me wrong though Maggs, prove me wrong.

ja1022
09-02-2004, 11:16 AM
He was overrated and getting a bit too egotistical anyways.
Overrated????
http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/ordonma01.shtml

GiveMeSox
09-02-2004, 11:17 AM
I assume we're talking about arbitration here. They can only offer him a certain percentage less than he made this season.

I don't know the percentage off hand, but I'd guess the lowest they can offer him would be 10-11 million.
The arbitration rule does not apply becuase the current contract he is under was a 3 year 30.5 mil deal. Arbitration i beleive is coming of at least 4 year deal. Therefore they can offer maggs whatever they want. However having the last year of the 3 year deal backloaded at 14 mil, kinda backfired on us. It created an asking point for Maggs agent, saying anything less would be asking an all star slugger to take a pay cut for no reason. If the deal was evenly payed at 10 mil per and we anted up with a deal between 12 to 13 per for 5 years or so that would seem pretty damn good. To bad KW screwed us with his tremendous backloaded contract once again.

SoxxoS
09-02-2004, 11:17 AM
KW needs to say something to the media stating what the plan of attack is here. Getting rid of Maggs I have no problem with...if we are ready to replace him and get some bullpen/starting pitching in return with that $$$. We have holes, and signing Maggs, IMO, isn't going to help fill those other holes. I would love to trade Konerko, CLee and Maggs. Get rid of them all. Take that money and assemble a team that is baseball savvy and can run the bases.

Baby Fisk
09-02-2004, 11:20 AM
KW needs to say something to the media stating what the plan of attack is here. Getting rid of Maggs I have no problem with...if we are ready to replace him and get some bullpen/starting pitching in return with that $$$. We have holes, and signing Maggs, IMO, isn't going to help fill those other holes. I would love to trade Konerko, CLee and Maggs. Get rid of them all. Take that money and assemble a team that is baseball savvy and can run the bases.This is thrilling :wired: and terrifying :o: at the same time. If Kenny botches this off-season, I think Soxfest will resemble Normandy, no?

samram
09-02-2004, 11:35 AM
KW needs to say something to the media stating what the plan of attack is here. Getting rid of Maggs I have no problem with...if we are ready to replace him and get some bullpen/starting pitching in return with that $$$. We have holes, and signing Maggs, IMO, isn't going to help fill those other holes. I would love to trade Konerko, CLee and Maggs. Get rid of them all. Take that money and assemble a team that is baseball savvy and can run the bases.
I think he and Ozzie have both hinted that there are going to be changes toward a more versatile, speedy, pitching-oriented team. They just haven't held a press conference where they said that, but the handwriting is on the wall. I don't know how productive it is to just come out with 30 games left and declare that they're making major changes, and they certainly can't get too specific, for any number of reasons.

OurBitchinMinny
09-02-2004, 11:37 AM
If maggs recovers and becomes an all star elsewhere (please not on the north side) this will be one of the dumbest decisions in white sox history and that is really saying something because all this team does is make dumb cheap decisions

bigfoot
09-02-2004, 11:39 AM
This is thrilling :wired: and terrifying :o: at the same time. If Kenny botches this off-season, I think Soxfest will resemble Normandy, no?

Normandy, non, Baghdad, oui!

The Big Squirt
09-02-2004, 11:46 AM
We can split a Ryder Truck. How are the schools and restaurants on the moon?
Easy to loose weight and the cheese is great!

Brian26
09-02-2004, 11:55 AM
He was overrated and getting a bit too egotistical anyways.

If anything, Magglio was grossly underrated. None of us know his true nature, and it's unfair to call him egotistical.

JohnBasedowYoda
09-02-2004, 11:58 AM
However, if the Sox believe that his injury will keep him from returning to form, then this is, sadly, the wiser business decision.
The sox also believed that roberto and crazy carl would help a playoff drive....twice

Brian26
09-02-2004, 11:59 AM
If Kenny botches this off-season, I think Soxfest will resemble Normandy, no?

Soxfest is a couple of weeks earlier than usual this year, too. Right smack dab in the middle of January as opposed to the last weekend in Jan/first weekend in February. That could be good or bad for KW.

LincolnSquareOz
09-02-2004, 12:03 PM
The pressure will defintely be on K.W. to sign some gamers with the Maggs money. Finding a 4th starter and upgrading the 'pen should take priority over all else. Then they can go out and find some finesse guys who can Ozzieball. Whatever the heck that is...

Maggs will probably be a Cub, Met, or Giant next season. Seeing him on the North Side would sting a bit.

CWWTWS1
09-02-2004, 12:03 PM
http://cubscentral.com/images/hendry.jpg" I think I can fit him into the Budget for 2005. Magglio, welcome to Wrigley field".

Randar68
09-02-2004, 12:05 PM
I assume we're talking about arbitration here. They can only offer him a certain percentage less than he made this season.

I don't know the percentage off hand, but I'd guess the lowest they can offer him would be 10-11 million.
That's not how it works.

hold2dibber
09-02-2004, 12:06 PM
If maggs recovers and becomes an all star elsewhere (please not on the north side) this will be one of the dumbest decisions in white sox history and that is really saying something because all this team does is make dumb cheap decisions
But that's not really fair. KW is in a tough spot here; it would take lots of $ to get Maggs back here, it's clear that this team needs to change the chemistry/make up of the roster away, and Maggs' injury status is (to public knowledge) completely up in the air. So the "if" you mention is a huge "if" and, under the circumstances, I think it would be foolish for KW to take a gamble on Maggs at this point. The decision could come back to haunt the Sox, but I think its the right decision.

voodoochile
09-02-2004, 12:06 PM
Soxfest is a couple of weeks earlier than usual this year, too. Right smack dab in the middle of January as opposed to the last weekend in Jan/first weekend in February. That could be good or bad for KW.
Yeah, at least it won't be Super Bowl weekend this year. :rolleyes:

hold2dibber
09-02-2004, 12:07 PM
The arbitration rule does not apply becuase the current contract he is under was a 3 year 30.5 mil deal. Arbitration i beleive is coming of at least 4 year deal. Therefore they can offer maggs whatever they want.
Are you sure about that? I've never heard that before, and I know the Sox would have had to pay Everett 80% if they offered him arb last year, and I had thought that he was on a 2 or 3 year contract at the time.

JoseCanseco6969
09-02-2004, 12:07 PM
Although sad to see Maggs go, this is the smartest move we could make. Let the Mets have him, just not the Cubs because I couldnt handle an ohh eee ohh at the urinal.

Randar68
09-02-2004, 12:07 PM
If anything, Magglio was grossly underrated. None of us know his true nature, and it's unfair to call him egotistical.
Underrated? He made 14 million this year and wanted Vlad money! He's never hit 40 HR's in a season, or had a .400 OBP. How is getting paid 14 million to hit .315-.320 30-35 HR's, and 100-115 RBI's "underrated"

*boggle*

That's like calling Konerko at 8 million "underrated"

SoxxoS
09-02-2004, 12:08 PM
Maggs was so underrated, he was overrated.

Get that? :cool:

LuvSox
09-02-2004, 12:09 PM
I would love to trade Konerko, CLee and Maggs. Get rid of them all. Take that money and assemble a team that is baseball savvy and can run the bases.
Right on!

Maggs will be a Yankee next year, mark it. Between his agent, the Yankee money and his friendship with A-Rod, game over.

pinwheels3530
09-02-2004, 12:10 PM
http://cubscentral.com/images/hendry.jpg" I think I can fit him into the Budget for 2005. Magglio, welcome to Wrigley field".


The Chicago news media reports Magglio Ordonez will be playing in Chicago for the very first time!!!:rolleyes:

soxtalker
09-02-2004, 12:10 PM
The arbitration rule does not apply becuase the current contract he is under was a 3 year 30.5 mil deal. Arbitration i beleive is coming of at least 4 year deal. Therefore they can offer maggs whatever they want. However having the last year of the 3 year deal backloaded at 14 mil, kinda backfired on us. It created an asking point for Maggs agent, saying anything less would be asking an all star slugger to take a pay cut for no reason. If the deal was evenly payed at 10 mil per and we anted up with a deal between 12 to 13 per for 5 years or so that would seem pretty damn good. To bad KW screwed us with his tremendous backloaded contract once again.
I'm a bit confused.

Did Levine say that the Sox won't be tendering an offer for arbitration? If so, I understand their reluctance, even if they could tender a figure lower than 80% of current year salary, as they could lose in arbitration and be stuck paying a much higher salary than they think wise. Note that we also don't get compensation of a draft pick in case Maggs goes elsewhere.

However, did Levine say that or did he say that they won't even be making him another offer before arbitration? If the latter is the case, I'm a bit surprised, and I'd guess that the comments others have made about the seriousness of the injury ring true.

CWWTWS1
09-02-2004, 12:15 PM
I'm a bit confused.

Did Levine say that the Sox won't be tendering an offer for arbitration? If so, I understand their reluctance, even if they could tender a figure lower than 80% of current year salary, as they could lose in arbitration and be stuck paying a much higher salary than they think wise. Note that we also don't get compensation of a draft pick in case Maggs goes elsewhere.

However, did Levine say that or did he say that they won't even be making him another offer before arbitration? If the latter is the case, I'm a bit surprised, and I'd guess that the comments others have made about the seriousness of the injury ring true.
It was not specific, but regardless of what it is, I don't see anyway possible that he is wearing a White Sox uniform next year. IMO, there is serious bad blood between Magglio and KW/JR.

Brian26
09-02-2004, 12:17 PM
Underrated? He made 14 million this year and wanted Vlad money! He's never hit 40 HR's in a season, or had a .400 OBP. How is getting paid 14 million to hit .315-.320 30-35 HR's, and 100-115 RBI's "underrated"

*boggle*

That's like calling Konerko at 8 million "underrated"

I'm *boggled* why you're jumping off the handle at me. Magglio's career in Chicago has been played in relative obscurity. He's been underrated by the national media and, hell, even the Chicago media. My post had nothing to do with his paycheck. He's been underrated by the baseball fraternity as whole for most of his career.

Yeah, he made $14 million this year. Do you or I know what his final stats would have been? No.

Hangar18
09-02-2004, 12:17 PM
If maggs recovers and becomes an all star elsewhere (please not on the north side) this will be one of the dumbest decisions in white sox history and that is really saying something because all this team does is make dumb cheap decisions
I agree Completely. This team is on the brink of extinction and anonymity.
Unlike the Red Sox, you have to keep your NAME players, regardless of health concerns. If thats the case, then keep him to an incentive laden contract.
Seeing how the cubs love anything SOX related (and they cant grow their own players) they will SIGN maggs, complete with his own PR and Marketing already in place (ooo EEE ooooo) he will get healthy, and continue being a SuperStar.
And we'll have YET ANOTHER HOLE in our lineup to Ignore this offseason.......

This decade is looking Darker and Darker everyone ..................

PorkChopExpress
09-02-2004, 12:18 PM
Right on!

Maggs will be a Yankee next year, mark it. Between his agent, the Yankee money and his friendship with A-Rod, game over.
Torre is a big fan of his too.

Randar68
09-02-2004, 12:26 PM
I'm *boggled* why you're jumping off the handle at me. Magglio's career in Chicago has been played in relative obscurity. He's been underrated by the national media and, hell, even the Chicago media. My post had nothing to do with his paycheck. He's been underrated by the baseball fraternity as whole for most of his career.

Yeah, he made $14 million this year. Do you or I know what his final stats would have been? No.
In sports... $$$$ = Respect. Maggs was respected by everyone but the Chicago media, although he didn't get hype nationally, IMO, he doesn't deserve it.

Magglio Ordonez is not a game-breaking, game-changing super-star. I've always felt that way. He's a professional hitter who is solid, yet unspectacular in most all facets of the game.

14 million a year is too much to pay for a Magglio Ordonez. End of story. He was over-payed, and IMO, rated about at the level he should have been.

Hangar18
09-02-2004, 12:28 PM
I'm *boggled* why you're jumping off the handle at me. Magglio's career in Chicago has been played in relative obscurity. He's been underrated by the national media and, hell, even the Chicago media. My post had nothing to do with his paycheck. He's been underrated by the baseball fraternity as whole for most of his career.

Yeah, he made $14 million this year. Do you or I know what his final stats would have been? No.

He made $14 Million this year because the SOX backloaded all the money that way. He has been Underrated by the Chicago Media. Guess that proves
to the world the Chicago Media ARENT PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH to cover 2 baseball teams. Too many biased and slanted Murphys/Mariottis/Kileys/Giangrecos have RUINED the journalistic Pool here

gosox41
09-02-2004, 12:31 PM
I'm speechless. :angry:

I guess I'll just wait until the Cubs sign up Maggs. I'll have to move to a cave on the Moon and live under a rock to avoid the all of the Flubbie taunts when that happens.
Do you think asn NL team is going to sign a guy to a long term contract who may have a degenerative knee? It's a risk. At least in the AL, DH is an option.


Bob

Kogs35
09-02-2004, 12:31 PM
sorry this isnt in teal but i was thinking ok the sox are not going to offer arbitration to maggs. teams like the mets giants cubs say in public they want him. kw charges that those teams tamperd sox get the draft picks they want. thoughts?

gosox41
09-02-2004, 12:31 PM
This is probably more indicative of how serious Magglio's injury is, than anything else. All I can say is that I'm thankful Magglio is greedy, and accepted none of our offers. He was overrated and getting a bit too egotistical anyways.
You got that right.


Bob

steff
09-02-2004, 12:33 PM
He made $14 Million this year because the SOX backloaded all the money that way.

Put the crack pipe down and actually take a look at what he's been paid the past 3 years would ya..

gosox41
09-02-2004, 12:33 PM
He made $14 Million this year because the SOX backloaded all the money that way. He has been Underrated by the Chicago Media. Guess that proves
to the world the Chicago Media ARENT PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH to cover 2 baseball teams. Too many biased and slanted Murphys/Mariottis/Kileys/Giangrecos have RUINED the journalistic Pool here
OK, then $10 mill a year is on the high side for Magglio. That's how much his 3 year contract extension averaged to.


Bob

JasonC23
09-02-2004, 12:57 PM
So, basically, I have to "hope" that Magglio is really, really seriously injured and won't ever be able to play up to his abilities ever again, making this a pretty smart move by the Sox. Because if that's not the case, and Maggs returns to form next year and the following years with some other team, what this all really means is that the Sox are not re-signing the best player on the team (and my favorite player) because they're cheap.

So I'm apparently supposed to be rooting for a career-threatening injury. Wonderful. Thanks, KW and JR. :(:

Brian26
09-02-2004, 12:59 PM
In sports... $$$$ = Respect. Maggs was respected by everyone but the Chicago media, although he didn't get hype nationally, IMO, he doesn't deserve it.

Magglio Ordonez is not a game-breaking, game-changing super-star. I've always felt that way. He's a professional hitter who is solid, yet unspectacular in most all facets of the game.

Wow. I couldn't disagree with you more.

I'll just agree to disagree at this point.

I guess I need to find out in what universe a .320 average, 35 homers, and 100 rbi's for 6 years in a row is "unspectacular". I'd hate to see what you think spectacular is. Maybe you've been playing too many video games lately where guys finish with 600 homers on the season.

ja1022
09-02-2004, 01:08 PM
Put the crack pipe down and actually take a look at what he's been paid the past 3 years would ya..
Which is....
(Salary)
2001 3.75 million
2002 6.5 million
2003 9 million

pinwheels3530
09-02-2004, 01:18 PM
Wow. I couldn't disagree with you more.

I'll just agree to disagree at this point.

I guess I need to find out in what universe a .320 average, 35 homers, and 100 rbi's for 6 years in a row is "unspectacular". I'd hate to see what you think spectacular is. Maybe you've been playing too many video games lately where guys finish with 600 homers on the season.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :o:

CWWTWS1
09-02-2004, 01:22 PM
http://cubscentral.com/images/hendry.jpg"Introducing the newest member of the Chicago Cubs, Magglio Ordonez".

:maggs (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)"Thanks, Jim. I have dreamed of playing for the Cubs my whole career. Everyone knows that Cubs fans are the best in baseball and I now have a chance to play in front of them. Oh, and screw you KW"!

Dub25
09-02-2004, 01:24 PM
sorry this isnt in teal but i was thinking ok the sox are not going to offer arbitration to maggs. teams like the mets giants cubs say in public they want him. kw charges that those teams tamperd sox get the draft picks they want. thoughts?
When did the Cubs and Giants say they wanted him? We all know about the Mets story.

maurice
09-02-2004, 01:25 PM
Those rumored Maggs for Garciapara and Maggs for A. Jones trades look pretty damn good in retrospect.

Palehose Pete
09-02-2004, 01:32 PM
We can split a Ryder Truck. How are the schools and restaurants on the moon?
There will hopefully be sammiches (sub or otherwise) and place to get a decent cup of coffee. If the Cubs do actually get Maggs, then knowing our luck the only bar on the moon will be a Cubby Bear.

CWWTWS1
09-02-2004, 01:32 PM
This could end up being a disaterous public relations gaff should the Cubs sign Magglio. Publicly, the Cubs did not comment on the "US VS THEM" slogans this year, but privately, they had to be upset by it. The one thing the Cubs have done is slam the Sox in the PR department for the better part of a decade.

I can see it now, the Cubs will do this next year:

We: Have Magglio

They: Don't.

Ouch!

kittle42
09-02-2004, 01:37 PM
This could end up being a disaterous public relations gaff should the Cubs sign Magglio. Publicly, the Cubs did not comment on the "US VS THEM" slogans this year, but privately, they had to be upset by it. The one thing the Cubs have done is slam the Sox in the PR department for the better part of a decade.

I can see it now, the Cubs will do this next year:

We: Have Magglio

They: Don't.

Ouch!
The Cubs PR department really doesn't even need to pretend like there is another team in town.

duke of dorwood
09-02-2004, 01:45 PM
:reinsy


Read my book about how to succeed in disastrous public relations moves

Randar68
09-02-2004, 01:55 PM
I guess I need to find out in what universe a .320 average, 35 homers, and 100 rbi's for 6 years in a row is "unspectacular". I'd hate to see what you think spectacular is. Maybe you've been playing too many video games lately where guys finish with 600 homers on the season.Maggs' 162 game averages for his career (never had a down year breaking in at an older age):

.307 BA, 30 HR, 114 RBI, 54 BB, 70 K, .364 OBP, .525 SGL%, .889 OPS and about 3.5 pitches/PA.

Not worthy of double-digit millions, especially considering he's a steady, but average defender in RF.

He'd be worth closer to 14 million if he could do that and play SS or CF. How much has Ivan Rodriguez made the past few years at a far more important defensive position and about equivalent per-game production?

That money is far better spent elsewhere.

SOXSINCE'70
09-02-2004, 02:12 PM
Maggs' 162 game averages for his career (never had a down year breaking in at an older age):

.307 BA, 30 HR, 114 RBI, 54 BB, 70 K, .364 OBP, .525 SGL%, .889 OPS and about 3.5 pitches/PA.

Not worthy of double-digit millions, especially considering he's a steady, but average defender in RF.

He'd be worth closer to 14 million if he could do that and play SS or CF. How much has Ivan Rodriguez made the past few years at a far more important defensive position and about equivalent per-game production?

That money is far better spent elsewhere.
Perhaps there is more to the noise we heard about Raul Ibanez coming to the South Side eventually (once the season ends).I think,like many of you,the Ordonez injury is much more serious than anyone thought.It's nice to know that the Sox,like the sCrUBS,want to keep their fanbase in the dark when it comes to injuries.:(: :(:

kittle42
09-02-2004, 02:13 PM
Perhaps there is more to the noise we heard about Raul Ibanez coming to the South Side eventually (once the season ends).:(:

Randar68
09-02-2004, 02:15 PM
Perhaps there is more to the noise we heard about Raul Ibanez coming to the South Side eventually (once the season ends).I think,like many of you,the Ordonez injury is much more serious than anyone thought.It's nice to know that the Sox,like the sCrUBS,want to keep their fanbase in the dark when it comes to injuries.:(: :(:
Who would it benefit to talk about it? Not Maggs. Not the Club. Not the agents or anyone involved in the process. He's out for the year and his contract is up, what else is needed? I'm certain we'll hear more in the offseason/future...

Brian26
09-02-2004, 03:15 PM
Maggs' 162 game averages for his career (never had a down year breaking in at an older age):

.307 BA, 30 HR, 114 RBI, 54 BB, 70 K, .364 OBP, .525 SGL%, .889 OPS and about 3.5 pitches/PA.

Not worthy of double-digit millions, especially considering he's a steady, but average defender in RF.

But sure as hell worth the 3.5 million he made in 2001, the 6 million he made in 2002, and the 9 million he made in 2003.

Randar68
09-02-2004, 03:18 PM
But sure as hell worth the 3.5 million he made in 2001, the 6 million he made in 2002, and the 9 million he made in 2003.I think 9 million is about right, maybe 10 or 11. However, the whole purpose of those escalating contracts is to establish the market for the player and lead into their next contract, expecting a raise in per-year average over the last-year salary of the contract.

Maggs isn't worth what he was asking, and I don't think on a per-year basis, he's worth what he made this year, not in the current marketplace. That has been my position from day 1. And at his age, production and health aren't going to improve, either...

Jerome
09-02-2004, 03:32 PM
The Mets will overpay for him. I just hope we spend the money that was on the table for him on something else. Like a shortsop. And some bullpen help. Because I don't see any stud prospects coming from Charlotte who will be able to help us any time soon.

Mickster
09-02-2004, 03:34 PM
The Mets will overpay for him. I just hope we spend the money that was on the table for him on something else. Like a shortsop. And some bullpen help. Because I don't see any stud prospects coming from Charlotte who will be able to help us any time soon.
If by "any time soon" you mean 2005, you are probably right. Sweeny and Anderson probably aren't slated to come up until 2006 at the earliest.

MRKARNO
09-02-2004, 04:03 PM
If by "any time soon" you mean 2005, you are probably right. Sweeny and Anderson probably aren't slated to come up until 2006 at the earliest.
If Anderson turns it up then there's no reason to think that he can't be here in the middle of next year.

dickallen15
09-02-2004, 04:15 PM
Underrated? He made 14 million this year and wanted Vlad money! He's never hit 40 HR's in a season, or had a .400 OBP. How is getting paid 14 million to hit .315-.320 30-35 HR's, and 100-115 RBI's "underrated"

*boggle*

That's like calling Konerko at 8 million "underrated"
He got $14 million this year on a back- loaded contract. The contract gave him $30 million over 3 years. A very fair price for the White Sox. $10 million a year for the pre injury production is a steal in today's game. I wonder if Levineline meant no arbitration offer, which would be obvious, because the Sox could only cut him 20%, or no offer, period. Either way, its been pretty much assumed he was gone, so really this isn't big news.

Baby Fisk
09-02-2004, 04:16 PM
If by "any time soon" you mean 2005, you are probably right. Sweeny and Anderson probably aren't slated to come up until 2006 at the earliest.:KW
"Did I forget to mention I'm working to swing these guys for Terry Mulholland? He's the kind of classy grinder we need for the #5 spot. You can thank me at the parade next fall."

DumpJerry
09-02-2004, 05:55 PM
The Flubs can't sign Maggs. They already have a complete stud God playing RF.

CubKilla
09-02-2004, 06:00 PM
The Flubs can't sign Maggs. They already have a complete stud God playing RF.
But he can play LF. Moisty is a FA after this season.

Frankfan4life
09-02-2004, 06:07 PM
So, basically, I have to "hope" that Magglio is really, really seriously injured and won't ever be able to play up to his abilities ever again, making this a pretty smart move by the Sox. Because if that's not the case, and Maggs returns to form next year and the following years with some other team, what this all really means is that the Sox are not re-signing the best player on the team (and my favorite player) because they're cheap.

So I'm apparently supposed to be rooting for a career-threatening injury. Wonderful. Thanks, KW and JR. :(:Maggs is not my favorite player, but everything else you said deserves and exclamation point!

gobears1987
09-02-2004, 06:15 PM
I'm speechless. :angry:

I guess I'll just wait until the Cubs sign up Maggs. I'll have to move to a cave on the Moon and live under a rock to avoid the all of the Flubbie taunts when that happens.
I DON'T WANT HIM!!! The Cubs can take him. The Sox know more about this injury than anyone and this is potentally career ending and at the very least will make him much less effective. His injury is part of early arthritis. His career is over and if the Sox signed him we would be spending a **** load of money for a player who will have this nagging injury cutting him short and not producing.

Screw Maggs! He has been trying to screw this team for a **** load of money and he isn't worth it. We can get a new Starting Pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 2nd basebman along with another bullpen arm for the money that greedy Maggs wanted. I use to be a Maggs fan until he asked for too much. He won't get much from other teams if they find out about the injury. He had his chance and blew it.

SOrry to all the Maggs fans but I had to get their head out of his ass.

StillMissOzzie
09-02-2004, 06:39 PM
But he can play LF. Moisty is a FA after this season.
I have heard that the sCrUBS have an option on Moisty that they are certain NOT to exercise, as it is in the neighborhood of $8M, IIRC.

SMO
:gulp:

beckett21
09-02-2004, 06:56 PM
So, if I have this right:


I have just read a 5-page thread based on one person's interpretations of Bruce Levine's *non-specific* comments.....right? I have not seen a quote, nor a link. And yet some are already assuming that Maggs is playing for the Cubs next year. :?:

:kukoo:

It's a hot-button topic, certainly worthy of debate. Not much else of any importance to talk about right now, I suppose. Yes, it's a message board, yadda yadda yadda. I did hear Levine this afternoon as I was driving home from the ballpark (lovely day to play hooky, BTW). He did say that Maggs called him 10 days ago and they talked for a bit. Supposedly he was getting medical opinions about his knee from the medical staffs of other teams. Big deal--I would get as many opinions as possible too. Bruce made the inference that Maggs was not coming back. I did not get the impression that this was implicitly stated; moreso that it was Levine's opinion.

And I ask all of you....when exactly is the last time Bruce Levine was right about anything?

Exactly.

Now, if the Sox made a statement to that effect, then I guess I missed it (which is very possible). I for one would like to see some evidence before I start panicking. Feel free to set me straight here if that is the case.

And FWIW, if Magglio is not with the Sox next year, it will be a shame. But the guy has been a class act and I would wish him continued success no matter where he lands. To wish him failure just to *save face* is preposterous.

pinwheels3530
09-02-2004, 07:02 PM
So, if I have this right:


I have just read a 5-page thread based on one person's interpretations of Bruce Levine's *non-specific* comments.....right? I have not seen a quote, nor a link. And yet some are already assuming that Maggs is playing for the Cubs next year. :?:

:kukoo:

It's a hot-button topic, certainly worthy of debate. Not much else of any importance to talk about right now, I suppose. Yes, it's a message board, yadda yadda yadda. I did hear Levine this afternoon as I was driving home from the ballpark (lovely day to play hooky, BTW). He did say that Maggs called him 10 days ago and they talked for a bit. Supposedly he was getting medical opinions about his knee from the medical staffs of other teams. Big deal--I would get as many opinions as possible too. Bruce made the inference that Maggs was not coming back. I did not get the impression that this was implicitly stated; moreso that it was Levine's opinion.

And I ask all of you....when exactly is the last time Bruce Levine was right about anything?

Exactly.

Now, if the Sox made a statement to that effect, then I guess I missed it (which is very possible). I for one would like to see some evidence before I start panicking. Feel free to set me straight here if that is the case.

And FWIW, if Magglio is not with the Sox next year, it will be a shame. But the guy has been a class act and I would wish him continued success no matter where he lands. To wish him failure just to *save face* is preposterous.

AMEN!!!!!

pinwheels3530
09-02-2004, 07:03 PM
I DON'T WANT HIM!!! The Cubs can take him. The Sox know more about this injury than anyone and this is potentally career ending and at the very least will make him much less effective. His injury is part of early arthritis. His career is over and if the Sox signed him we would be spending a **** load of money for a player who will have this nagging injury cutting him short and not producing.

Screw Maggs! He has been trying to screw this team for a **** load of money and he isn't worth it. We can get a new Starting Pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 2nd basebman along with another bullpen arm for the money that greedy Maggs wanted. I use to be a Maggs fan until he asked for too much. He won't get much from other teams if they find out about the injury. He had his chance and blew it.

SOrry to all the Maggs fans but I had to get their head out of his ass.

:whatever: :maggs

JB98
09-02-2004, 07:06 PM
I didn't hear Levine's report, and this thread has done nothing but confuse me.

Are they saying the Sox will not offer arbitration to Magglio? I thought he was an outright FA at the end of the season and arbitration wasn't even a factor.

Or are they saying the Sox will not offer a contract to Magglio period, not even an incentive-laded deal?

Somebody please clarify for me. All this gnashing of teeth about Magglio becoming a Cub is a pointless exercise. I just want to know if this means there is now a zero percent chance that Magglio will be back with us next year.

beckett21
09-02-2004, 07:12 PM
I didn't hear Levine's report, and this thread has done nothing but confuse me.

Are they saying the Sox will not offer arbitration to Magglio? I thought he was an outright FA at the end of the season and arbitration wasn't even a factor.

Or are they saying the Sox will not offer a contract to Magglio period, not even an incentive-laded deal?

Somebody please clarify for me. All this gnashing of teeth about Magglio becoming a Cub is a pointless exercise. I just want to know if this means there is now a zero percent chance that Magglio will be back with us next year.
That was the point of my post.

This is all heresy as far as I am concerned until I hear something a little more concrete.

Bruce Levine said nothing of substance from what I heard.

balke
09-02-2004, 07:13 PM
Maggs shouldn't have been back this year in the first place. Almost traded once, then Kenny was going to ride out our power until we looked like we weren't going to need maggs, or until we could trade him for something better. We looked playoff bound early.

We got burnt by his injury, and really so did he. (If not on the sox, probably wouldn't be injured).

But I don't know if he won't be back. All I get is that he's not tendered an offer... which makes sense because we already had that agreement that we were done negotiating with Maggs. We made him great offers, he wanted to go to a bigger market (or wanted to stay for more money, if you are foolish enough to believe that). And Kenny/sox organization hates dealing with his agent.

I don't think Maggs is permanantly injured, but we'll see I guess. If anything, I bet he loses a step, but I doubt he won't be a great player in the future. Time will tell. For what it's worth, that's 15 mil spread out, instead of invested in one player.

TommyJohn
09-02-2004, 07:16 PM
ladies and gentlemen, prepare for:


:moron


My Cubbies will sign Magglio and deal a Death Blow to the rotten
scumbag team that plays in the HELLHOLE in the worst
neighborhood in America!! No one will go there after
this!! This is the (giggle, sneer) DEATH KNELL!! Sign him
Cubbies, sign him!!!

batmanZoSo
09-02-2004, 07:22 PM
Maggs' 162 game averages for his career (never had a down year breaking in at an older age):

.307 BA, 30 HR, 114 RBI, 54 BB, 70 K, .364 OBP, .525 SGL%, .889 OPS and about 3.5 pitches/PA.

Not worthy of double-digit millions, especially considering he's a steady, but average defender in RF.

He'd be worth closer to 14 million if he could do that and play SS or CF. How much has Ivan Rodriguez made the past few years at a far more important defensive position and about equivalent per-game production?

That money is far better spent elsewhere.
For me, he was going to be worth 14 million because he was a guy who never missed a game and you KNOW he's going to give you .300 30 100 every year. And he's a presence in the lineup, which can't be overlooked. But the sad fact is his stock just bottomed out in my opinion with the injury. A possibility is he'll never be the same. Not certain, but possible.

I definitely don't think he's overrated or overpaid like some have said. I also disagree that he's not a game-changing superstar. Our production dropped off big time when he went down, even when Thomas was here. He's also a guy pitchers genuinely fear and try to stay away from. He may not have any eye-popping individual tools that you'd call spectacular, but being very good at several things is as good or better than having, say ungodly power or gold glove defense.

But I do believe that in our current state, we're better off spending 14 million on for instance another Garcia-quality starter and a leadoff hitter. And that certainly has a lot to do with Maggs's health revelations. He's a hell of a player, but I don't think he's a good fit here along with Konerko.

Flight #24
09-02-2004, 07:51 PM
I didn't hear Levine's report, and this thread has done nothing but confuse me.

Are they saying the Sox will not offer arbitration to Magglio? I thought he was an outright FA at the end of the season and arbitration wasn't even a factor.

Or are they saying the Sox will not offer a contract to Magglio period, not even an incentive-laded deal?

Somebody please clarify for me. All this gnashing of teeth about Magglio becoming a Cub is a pointless exercise. I just want to know if this means there is now a zero percent chance that Magglio will be back with us next year.
IIRC, they still have the option to offer him arbitration, but he has the option to decline it and become an FA. In that scenario, I think the Sox could resign him (assuming they can work a deal), and if they don't, they get compensatory picks. If they don't offer him arb because they're afraid he'd accept and they'd be on the hook for $11mil (or more), then not only can they not resign him until like May (which is what happened to Everett last year and IRod with the Marlins), but they also don't get compensatory picks.

Just another way in which this injury screwed the Sox season. Not only did it kill a very promising playoff trip, it also cost the team a couple of high draft picks.

This is all assuming that they're not offering him arb, which is somewhat believable if they're uncertain about his recovery progress and the medium term prognosis.

Brian26
09-02-2004, 09:06 PM
And FWIW, if Magglio is not with the Sox next year, it will be a shame. But the guy has been a class act and I would wish him continued success no matter where he lands. To wish him failure just to *save face* is preposterous.
Once again, Beckett saves the day by bringing some intelligence back to a thread. I agree 100%

Tragg
09-03-2004, 10:36 PM
That's okay--as long as we spend the $14 million or whatever on improving this team

JKryl
09-05-2004, 10:30 PM
But, remember, Kenny and Ozzie are doing the spending. This means the 14 million will go to two or three washed up latin american pitcher wannabees. After all, we don't need hitting any more, we have power hitters with a .200 average. :whiner:

ChiSoxBobette
09-07-2004, 08:43 AM
Overrated? Yes, that is why this team is below .500.:?:The team is under .500 because we lost Frank, Magglio was doing nothing when he was injured and seemed to have only free agency on his mind before that.

Jamieboy
09-08-2004, 06:03 PM
LET THE CUBS SIGN MAGGS! I'm getting tired of hearing all of you whiny Sox fans out there. Do you think JR is just gonna raise the payroll on a team that doesn't win. We're not the Orioles here, the Sox simply don't get enough attendance annually pony up all this dream money people would like the Sox to spend. This year attendance was up because most the year we were winning. Now all these people who want to the turn the Sox into the Sox into some team they're not. Let Minnesoate be Minnesota, let the A's be the A's, but people, let the Sox be the Sox. Do you know why we won in 2000, because we could hit, we had chemistry, the bullpen was solid, the starting pitching surprised and was decent and consistent, not great. 2001 the team was injuried up and down. We lost Frank a month into the season, David Wells was out right around June, the bullpen had been hit hard by injuries I believe, hitting was inconsistent, that was it for that team. And generally its been the same story since. Inconsistency, injuries, and poor timing. But, the core of the team is Thomas, Konerko, and Lee. They've been mainstays since the Sox turned into an offensive team which has carried the load against weak pitching. Now, Maggs and Valentin have also been mainstays as well, but their days seem numbered. With Valentin, age has caught up with him. He can no longer hit for a decent avg, is slower on the basepathes, and fielding is sporadic. With Maggs, the money he wanted to begin with was too much. 15mil for a .300 hitter who never hit more than 35HRs and was good usually for 110-130 RBIs. Thats a real good player, but that not a 15mil player. Thats Vlad money, and people who know baseball know Maggs is no Vlad.

So, as it stands right now, here's next year's team
C Ben Davis/ Jamie Burke
1B Paul Konerko
2B Willie Harris/Juan Uribe
SS ? Uribe .. maybe the Alvarez guy .. maybe FA ...my guess is Uribe
3B Joe Crede .. Sox might not want to give up on him, or they may trade him. May very well depend on how he hits down the stretch. I'd hope for Glaus, but I won't hold my breath. If were lucky, maybe we get Koskie.
LF Carlos Lee
CF Aaron Rowand
RF ? Maybe Maggs is he signed for 8-9, but I highly doubt it. My guess is they're gonna give Borchard a hard, hard, hard look. Highly doubt they'll give JD Drew a chance, might be priced out of our range.

Rotation:
1.Buehrle He'll do, natural #2 guy tho
2.Garcai He's fine, #2 guy usually, has shown flashes of #1 talent
3.Contreras I'm not sure why people don't realize Contreras was a steal, best stuff on the staff, if he's consistent .. watch out. Last 2 outings were't very good, but oh well, he'll shape up.

Bullpen:
Shingo
Marte
Everybody else sucks. Cotts is a bum, period. The bullpen is the main reason this team is hurting. We can never hold a team.

Mohoney
09-09-2004, 04:46 PM
Bruce Levine said nothing of substance from what I heard.
He rarely does.

Tragg
09-10-2004, 09:47 PM
So, as it stands right now, here's next year's team
C Ben Davis/ Jamie Burke
1B Paul Konerko
2B Willie Harris/Juan Uribe
SS ? Uribe .. maybe the Alvarez guy .. maybe FA ...my guess is Uribe
3B Joe Crede .. Sox might not want to give up on him, or they may trade him. May very well depend on how he hits down the stretch. I'd hope for Glaus, but I won't hold my breath. If were lucky, maybe we get Koskie.
LF Carlos Lee
CF Aaron Rowand
RF ? Maybe Maggs is he signed for 8-9, but I highly doubt it. My guess is they're gonna give Borchard a hard, hard, hard look. Highly doubt they'll give JD Drew a chance, might be priced out of our range.

Rotation:
1.Buehrle He'll do, natural #2 guy tho
2.Garcai He's fine, #2 guy usually, has shown flashes of #1 talent
3.Contreras I'm not sure why people don't realize Contreras was a steal, best stuff on the staff, if he's consistent .. watch out. Last 2 outings were't very good, but oh well, he'll shape up.

Bullpen:
Shingo
Marte
Everybody else sucks. Cotts is a bum, period. The bullpen is the main reason this team is hurting. We can never hold a team.I'd say we need (not in order of importance)

1)Another good starter, #3ish quality (should be available FA)
2)Defensive Catcher - should come cheap
3)SS - preferably some guy who can at least work the bat
4)Right fielder;
5)A lead-off hitter (centerfielder? move rowand to left?)
6)Pen help (but I think the young guys are getting better- I wouldn't spend much money here).

My vague salary count is minus $20.5 million: Valentin (5), Maggs (9), Loiza(4?) and Koch (2.5?); plus $19million: Contreras (6), Garcia (9), Everett (4). Add Garland's raise and it's a wash.

So, to fill holes: A right fielder and lead-off man will cost us $10 mil minimum; pitcher will cost $6-$8 million. Total addition is $18 million, round off to $22 to account for no-hit/defensive SS and Catcher we need. On the other hand, I think we'd have to trade Konerko (if lee can play 1b) or Lee (if Konerko can't) and move Rowand to left (perhaps). That's a net $14 million addition needed by my rough calculation. And that could be reduced IF one of our outfielders in the minors would quickly mature.

And with this, we still have offensive holes at C, SS and 3B (an offensive position- but Crede's young and should improve and has a nice glove). But we'd have steady, extremely solid, if not spectacular pitching and, finally, a lead-off hitter, which we haven't had in ages.