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View Full Version : Konerko speaks . . . should have just ****


maurice
09-01-2004, 03:23 PM
Konerko told the Cub-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep01.html): "I've never failed as a starting player." Apparently, he doesn't think he was a starter in 2003 and blames JM's alleged benching for his vomit-inducing .234 AVE / .305 OBP / .399 SLG and absurd GiDP totals.

First off, Konerko had about 500 plate appearances last season, which qualifies as a starter in my book. Second, he had 70+ plate appearances every single month except for his horrific June, when he posted a .098 / .174 / .098. Third, the Eight Million Dollar Man has been craptacular since Maggs and Frank went down THIS YEAR, when the team turned to its remaining veteran bats for run production (.233 / .307 / .459 since the All Star break.) Finally, Konerko's "resurgence" primarily is the result of the Cell's conversion into Coors East (home: .305 / .409 / .641 / 22 HR - road: .242 / .300 / .417 / 10 HR).

Hey Paulie, the offense has been crap in the second half, and you're one of the top four reasons, so do us a favor and ****.

Randar68
09-01-2004, 03:41 PM
Konerko told the Cub-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep01.html): "I've never failed as a starting player." Apparently, he doesn't think he was a starter in 2003 and blames JM's alleged benching for his vomit-inducing .234 AVE / .305 OBP / .399 SLG and absurd GiDP totals.

First off, Konerko had about 500 plate appearances last season, which qualifies as a starter in my book. Second, he had 70+ plate appearances every single month except for his horrific June, when he posted a .098 / .174 / .098. Third, the Eight Million Dollar Man has been craptacular since Maggs and Frank went down THIS YEAR, when the team turned to its remaining veteran bats for run production (.233 / .307 / .459 since the All Star break.) Finally, Konerko's "resurgence" primarily is the result of the Cell's conversion into Coors East (home: .305 / .409 / .641 / 22 HR - road: .242 / .300 / .417 / 10 HR).

Hey Paulie, the offense has been crap in the second half, and you're one of the top four reasons, so do us a favor and ****.
Amen. And people thought this monkey was the ultimate team player and clubhouse guy. Hey Pauly, don't bother showing up next year if you're gonna sit on your ass with a Coors Lite and a bag of chips this offseason.

HITMEN OF 77
09-01-2004, 05:05 PM
The whole article needs to be read to understand that quote. We can argue over this field, that field, how many fans sat behind home plate and were yelling to affect the speed of pitches and all that other crap, but the bottom line, without Konerko this team would be in last place! I don't think a .273 BA, 32 HR, 91 RBI, .357 OB, .528 SLG is crap. His numbers would be even better if Maggs and Frank were in the lineup.

DickAllen72
09-01-2004, 05:33 PM
... Third, the Eight Million Dollar Man has been craptacular since Maggs and Frank went down THIS YEAR, when the team turned to its remaining veteran bats for run production (.233 / .307 / .459 since the All Star break.)



I'm not going to bash Paulie, but those stats do make one appreciate Carl Everett and his performance filling in for Frank while being hindered by injuries himself, even more.

cwsox
09-01-2004, 06:08 PM
The whole article needs to be read to understand that quote. We can argue over this field, that field, how many fans sat behind home plate and were yelling to affect the speed of pitches and all that other crap, but the bottom line, without Konerko this team would be in last place! I don't think a .273 BA, 32 HR, 91 RBI, .357 OB, .528 SLG is crap. His numbers would be even better if Maggs and Frank were in the lineup.
thank you for a note of sanity amidst the bashing

JB98
09-01-2004, 06:22 PM
The whole article needs to be read to understand that quote. We can argue over this field, that field, how many fans sat behind home plate and were yelling to affect the speed of pitches and all that other crap, but the bottom line, without Konerko this team would be in last place! I don't think a .273 BA, 32 HR, 91 RBI, .357 OB, .528 SLG is crap. His numbers would be even better if Maggs and Frank were in the lineup.

Amen. Certainly, Paul's numbers are down the second half. But if you watch the games, you know he isn't seeing much to hit. If I were pitching against the Sox, I'd never throw Paul a fastball. He's one of the few hitters on the team capable of doing serious damage. If Konerko is guilty of anything, it's getting himself out by swinging at junk. He frustrated and pressing, like a number of guys on the team.

maurice
09-01-2004, 06:23 PM
His numbers would be even better if Maggs and Frank were in the lineup.Not according to Konerko:
As for hitting in a lineup this season without Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez, Konerko figures the effect on him was negligible. . . . ''It hurts to not have those guys, but I've also gotten more chances because I've hit higher in the lineup,'' he said.The bottom line is that the Sox highly paid clutch players choked hard when the team needed them most. Now would be a good time for Choker Exhibit B to follow Valentin's example, lay low, and enjoy cashing his massive paychecks, instead of inventing BS excuses why he was one of the worst players in baseball last season (though I agree with the "curve ball, bats afraid" theory).

Konerko blaming PT for his awful 2003 is on par with E-Lo blaming run support for his 2004. They're both full of ****. The facts are irrefutable.

Deadguy
09-01-2004, 06:24 PM
Konerko told the Cub-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep01.html): "I've never failed as a starting player." Apparently, he doesn't think he was a starter in 2003 and blames JM's alleged benching for his vomit-inducing .234 AVE / .305 OBP / .399 SLG and absurd GiDP totals.

First off, Konerko had about 500 plate appearances last season, which qualifies as a starter in my book. Second, he had 70+ plate appearances every single month except for his horrific June, when he posted a .098 / .174 / .098. Third, the Eight Million Dollar Man has been craptacular since Maggs and Frank went down THIS YEAR, when the team turned to its remaining veteran bats for run production (.233 / .307 / .459 since the All Star break.) Finally, Konerko's "resurgence" primarily is the result of the Cell's conversion into Coors East (home: .305 / .409 / .641 / 22 HR - road: .242 / .300 / .417 / 10 HR).

Hey Paulie, the offense has been crap in the second half, and you're one of the top four reasons, so do us a favor and ****.
Excellent post.

Please take a hike Paulie. You are lucky to still even have a job after your laughably embarassing first half last season. You weren't asked to do much last season, and still fell flat on your face. If you would have done your job, maybe we wouldn't have missed out on the playoffs for the third straight season. All you are is a glorified Brian Daubach.

OurBitchinMinny
09-01-2004, 06:29 PM
Konerko told the Cub-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep01.html): "I've never failed as a starting player." Apparently, he doesn't think he was a starter in 2003 and blames JM's alleged benching for his vomit-inducing .234 AVE / .305 OBP / .399 SLG and absurd GiDP totals.

First off, Konerko had about 500 plate appearances last season, which qualifies as a starter in my book. Second, he had 70+ plate appearances every single month except for his horrific June, when he posted a .098 / .174 / .098. Third, the Eight Million Dollar Man has been craptacular since Maggs and Frank went down THIS YEAR, when the team turned to its remaining veteran bats for run production (.233 / .307 / .459 since the All Star break.) Finally, Konerko's "resurgence" primarily is the result of the Cell's conversion into Coors East (home: .305 / .409 / .641 / 22 HR - road: .242 / .300 / .417 / 10 HR).

Hey Paulie, the offense has been crap in the second half, and you're one of the top four reasons, so do us a favor and ****.

Konerko is not even in the top 100 of things wrong with this team this year. Hes been fine. Its other gutless wonders and terrible managing

maurice
09-01-2004, 06:39 PM
Konerko is not even in the top 100 of things wrong with this team this year.
Reading comprehension is a skill:
the offense has been crap in the second half, and you're one of the top four reasons
Sox team since ASB: .255 / .312 / .442
Konerko since ASB: .233 / .307 / .459

Yeah, it's just a huge coincidence that the decline of the offense mirrors the decline of its cleanup hitter.

mdep524
09-01-2004, 06:44 PM
Amen. Certainly, Paul's numbers are down the second half. But if you watch the games, you know he isn't seeing much to hit. If I were pitching against the Sox, I'd never throw Paul a fastball. He's one of the few hitters on the team capable of doing serious damage. If Konerko is guilty of anything, it's getting himself out by swinging at junk. He frustrated and pressing, like a number of guys on the team.
Then why is Aaron Rowand, batting in the same line up as Konerko except being bounced around from the 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7 spots, hitting .356 since the All Star break?

batmanZoSo
09-01-2004, 08:31 PM
Excellent post.

Please take a hike Paulie. You are lucky to still even have a job after your laughably embarassing first half last season. You weren't asked to do much last season, and still fell flat on your face. If you would have done your job, maybe we wouldn't have missed out on the playoffs (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=119,28180399,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1) for the third straight season. All you are is a glorified Brian Daubach.
That's exactly what we need is a Brian Daubach. A left handed hitting veteran first baseman who makes 700k-1.5m. And is a proven MLB hitter who's not gonna kill you with two month slumps caused by neuroses and self-flagellation practices. whooo-PSHHH! We don't need a feature, power-hitting slugging first baseman, just a decent veteran who can make a great 7 or 8 hitter and get some clutch hits. And solid defense would be wonderful for a change. Konerko can turn a DP but he's lazy and slow in the field.

Even if Konerko plays like first half of 02 Konerko for an entire season it doesn't do us much good to have him at 8 million. But he's never gonna be that good for an entire year or even close. So get rid of him.

pczarapa
09-01-2004, 08:34 PM
The whole article needs to be read to understand that quote. We can argue over this field, that field, how many fans sat behind home plate and were yelling to affect the speed of pitches and all that other crap, but the bottom line, without Konerko this team would be in last place! I don't think a .273 BA, 32 HR, 91 RBI, .357 OB, .528 SLG is crap. His numbers would be even better if Maggs and Frank were in the lineup.

At this point last place looks great for the draft pick

Whitesox029
09-02-2004, 12:13 AM
Konerko told the Cub-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep01.html): "I've never failed as a starting player." Apparently, he doesn't think he was a starter in 2003 and blames JM's alleged benching for his vomit-inducing .234 AVE / .305 OBP / .399 SLG and absurd GiDP totals.

First off, Konerko had about 500 plate appearances last season, which qualifies as a starter in my book. Second, he had 70+ plate appearances every single month except for his horrific June, when he posted a .098 / .174 / .098. Third, the Eight Million Dollar Man has been craptacular since Maggs and Frank went down THIS YEAR, when the team turned to its remaining veteran bats for run production (.233 / .307 / .459 since the All Star break.) Finally, Konerko's "resurgence" primarily is the result of the Cell's conversion into Coors East (home: .305 / .409 / .641 / 22 HR - road: .242 / .300 / .417 / 10 HR).

Hey Paulie, the offense has been crap in the second half, and you're one of the top four reasons, so do us a favor and ****.Now that we've already lost a handful of the best players on the team, let's complete the job by trading, releasing, or just plain alienating each and every one of the remaining players who is essential to the '05 team.
??:?: ??

Honestly, if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. This team will not win next year without a core of Konerko, Thomas, Lee, Buehrle, Garcia, Takatsu. If any one of these guys goes, then goodbye serious chances, hello 5 year rebuilding period. Adding Ordonez to that core wouldn't hurt either, if you get my hint.

JB98
09-02-2004, 12:57 AM
Then why is Aaron Rowand, batting in the same line up as Konerko except being bounced around from the 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7 spots, hitting .356 since the All Star break?

Because Rowand is having a career year. He's locked in right now. That simple.

JB98
09-02-2004, 12:59 AM
Now that we've already lost a handful of the best players on the team, let's complete the job by trading, releasing, or just plain alienating each and every one of the remaining players who is essential to the '05 team.
??:?: ??

Honestly, if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. This team will not win next year without a core of Konerko, Thomas, Lee, Buehrle, Garcia, Takatsu. If any one of these guys goes, then goodbye serious chances, hello 5 year rebuilding period. Adding Ordonez to that core wouldn't hurt either, if you get my hint.

True that, and who needs another 5-year rebuilding plan? We could all be dead by the time that comes to fruition.

maurice
09-02-2004, 02:18 PM
For all the posts expressing irrational love for Konerko, not a single person has defended his ridiculous claim that he's "never failed as a starting player" . . . the actual topic of this thread.

Frater Perdurabo
09-02-2004, 02:45 PM
Konerko is part of the "core" that has played *barely* better than .500 ball since the 2000 All Star Break. He's inconsistent and makes too much money on a team with a self-imposed payroll limit. Being signed for only 2005, he could be appealing to a team looking for that extra bat. KW ought to play his cards right and get a starting pitcher in return.

Time for all of us to wake up and smell the coffee. Hello, McFly. This "core" is less than the sum of its parts. Konerko is part of the "core" and the most easiy replaced of that "core."

I disagree that he should ****, however. Anything that increases his potential trade value in the minds of other teams would be a great thing. Perhaps Kenny can work his "magic" again and play the Red Sox and Yankees off each other in a bidding war for Konerko. If I were KW, I would be publicly showering Konerko with platitudes and verbal bouquets to drive up his trade value.

Lee can play 1B if and when Konerko leaves, allowing Rowand to move to left and allowing the Sox to trade for a legitimate leadoff hitter to play CF, or allowing Everett to play left (not my preferred option).

DickAllen72
09-02-2004, 05:54 PM
A left handed hitting veteran first baseman who makes 700k-1.5m. And is a proven MLB hitter who's not gonna kill you with two month slumps caused by neuroses and self-flagellation practices. whooo-PSHHH! We don't need a feature, power-hitting slugging first baseman, just a decent veteran who can make a great 7 or 8 hitter and get some clutch hits. And solid defense would be wonderful for a change.

You just described Ross Gload, except for the salary part. He's an excellent defensive first baseman, has been a solid hitter at AAA and has proven this year he can hit fairly well at the MLB level, is a left handed hitter, and has a good work ethic. While he's not old, he's no spring chicken--has bounced around in the minors for years--which seems to have made him a solid guy, and he only makes a little over the minimum salary.

I think Konerko would bring something of value in a trade, and the $8.5million could go towards signing Pavano.

I was a little surprised Ozzie mentioned Konerko as one of only two players he said should be "protected" over the off-season (the other being Rowand). I realize he was probably just blowing smoke, but still.

I'm not bashing Paulie. He's been doing way better this year than I thought he would. But the Sox can't afford to pay that much money for him when they have so many other needs to fill. Since he's having a great HR year, his trade value is probably at it's peak. As I said a couple of weks ago, "buy low and sell high."

misty60481
09-02-2004, 10:21 PM
If we get rid of PK how are we going to replace his value to the team??? He is on his way to a .280-40-100+ year those kind of NOs. are not ewasy to replace. I was at todays game, we looked terrible offensively only PK looked good hitting to right, a single, and then his double in the gap, plus he made some nice defensive plays last night and today. Why was Everette pinch hit for did he get hurt?? I dont think Everette is worth near $4 mil. next year either, he has not shown near as much as last year, maybe getting little old in the tooth. Cotts looked good today...

Whitesox029
09-02-2004, 11:10 PM
For all the posts expressing irrational love for Konerko, not a single person has defended his ridiculous claim that he's "never failed as a starting player" . . . the actual topic of this thread.If he hits 40 HR and around .290 with over 100 RBI he can say whatever the hell he wants.

RKMeibalane
09-02-2004, 11:59 PM
If he hits 40 HR and around .290 with over 100 RBI he can say whatever the hell he wants. Based on that line of reasoning, Frank Thomas should receive a free pass to say and do whatever he wants for the rest of the his life. Please! As often as Thomas has been ripped for just speaking his mind, I'm glad that to see that people are letting Konerko have it. The man just cannot keep his mouth shut. When Paul Konerko can put together a full season of solid baseball, I'll leave him alone. Until then, I'm going to continue looking down my nose at him.

TURD ---------------------------------> :walnuts

HITMEN OF 77
09-03-2004, 02:19 AM
Who cares about 1st half stats, 2nd half stats, April stats when it's partly cloudy with a light wind before the game, September stats at night when's its at or below 45 degrees outside....For the SEASON Konerko will end up batting around .280 40+ HR's and 100+ rbi's!! What's hard to understand about those numbers? NOTHING, there great and can't be replaced.

maurice
09-03-2004, 06:02 PM
1. A .273 AVE is nothing to crow about . . . unless you're Jose Valentin.
2. Konerko is NOT on pace to hit more than 40 HR, especially in light of his second-half slump.
3. He's never hit more than 32 HR, despite playing in a hitters park at an offensive position.
4. He's driven in 100+ RBI exactly once, despite hitting behind Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez most of his career.
5. In a good year at a typical big-league park, Konerko is a .242 AVE, 20 HR guy. The Cell added more than 300 (!) points to his OPS this year.
6. If you think park effects are irrelevant, you must think Royce Clayton, Matt Holliday, and Vinnie Castilla are pretty good hitters.
7. I'm sure Konerko's teammates care about second-half stats, since that's when they went from 1st place to sub-.500.
8. His stupid statement that he's "never failed as a starting player" (the topic of this thread) remains unadulterated BS.

LauraJ14
09-03-2004, 06:12 PM
Lee can play 1B if and when Konerko leaves, allowing Rowand to move to left and allowing the Sox to trade for a legitimate leadoff hitter to play CF, or allowing Everett to play left (not my preferred option).

Why do people keep saying that Lee can play 1b when he has never played there before? I don't want Lee in the infield, play Frank there or Gload or go pick a cheap free agent to play first , how about Doug Mientkiewski?

HaroMaster87
09-03-2004, 06:36 PM
thank you for a note of sanity amidst the bashing
Well, the bottom line is this is a team game and if your team sucks (and the Sox do) then ALL THE PLAYERS need to ****...Paulie doesnt have a leg to stand on with me. How in the HELL are you going to talk about your own personnal stats when you team is sinking like an anchor? F'n selfishness and I'm soooooooooooo sick of it. That why the Twins are in first.....:angry::angry::angry::angry:

HITMEN OF 77
09-03-2004, 08:08 PM
8. His stupid statement that he's "never failed as a starting player" (the topic of this thread) remains unadulterated BS.
That was answered a while back in this thread, read the whole article that blurd quote was from a paragraph. It's pretty self explanatory.

Who else at 1st base in the AL has better numbers than Konerko?...Ah ZERO!!

A. Cavatica
09-03-2004, 08:28 PM
Why do people keep saying that Lee can play 1b when he has never played there before? I don't want Lee in the infield, play Frank there or Gload or go pick a cheap free agent to play first , how about Doug Mientkiewski?
Hey, with all the washed-up ex-Indians we've had recently, it's possible.

Introducing your 2009 White Sox!

1B Doug Mientkwizzbcervsldf
SS Cristian Guzman
3B Corey Koskie
...

beck72
09-05-2004, 07:43 AM
PK will post "good numbers" at the end of the year. But hasn't his inconsistency when the Sox needed him most [after Frank and Maggs went down] part of the reason for the sox slide? Hasn't this been the case with most of the "core" for the past few years, long stretches of horrible AB's followed by a few 10 run game outbursts? The numbers look good at the end of the year yet the Sox still wind up near .500.

I wouldn't mind only seeing Frank back from the core and seeing a completely different team in '05 on the field, one that makes consistent contact, plays good d, and has strong pitching.

balke
09-05-2004, 09:05 AM
Who else at 1st base in the AL has better numbers than Konerko?...Ah ZERO!!
I think sucks, hate, and selfish are bad words for Konerko. Personally, if we trade him, and he goes high cost... I'm all about it. I would never say Pauly sucks, or that I'd rather see him somewhere else, it's all about the return product.

Pauly took more BP last year than anyone to get his swing back in line when he was slumping. He worked all summer to make sure he wouldn't come out here slumping again, and he's played the most solid/consistant/productive ball of his life. That's no coincidence. His horrible slump lit a fire under his ars.

Besides FT's foot handling the weight of a monster, and Intestinal parasites ruining a career... 1st base is a great place to have good #'s due to lack of injury. IF we keep Konerko, I wouldn't cry about it, he's a great player. But this team needs a make over, I think we set a record for Solo HR a while ago, or at least we are on pace to. At best HR's gave us a .600 win pct... we need some pitching. WE lost to the EXPOS 17-14 for god's sakes!

TornLabrum
09-05-2004, 11:05 AM
I think sucks, hate, and selfish are bad words for Konerko. Personally, if we trade him, and he goes high cost... I'm all about it. I would never say Pauly sucks, or that I'd rather see him somewhere else, it's all about the return product.

Pauly took more BP last year than anyone to get his swing back in line when he was slumping. He worked all summer to make sure he wouldn't come out here slumping again, and he's played the most solid/consistant/productive ball of his life. That's no coincidence. His horrible slump lit a fire under his ars.

Besides FT's foot handling the weight of a monster, and Intestinal parasites ruining a career... 1st base is a great place to have good #'s due to lack of injury. IF we keep Konerko, I wouldn't cry about it, he's a great player. But this team needs a make over, I think we set a record for Solo HR a while ago, or at least we are on pace to. At best HR's gave us a .600 win pct... we need some pitching. WE lost to the EXPOS 17-14 for god's sakes!
According to Greg Walker, Konerko completely reworked his swing.

ma_deuce
09-05-2004, 11:38 AM
Hey Paulie, the offense has been crap in the second half, and you're one of the top four reasons, so do us a favor and ****.http://www.platterpus.com/images/61141.jpg

"Hey Paulie, what da' five fingers say to the face? SLAP!"

idseer
09-05-2004, 01:13 PM
paul konerko haters don't need much reason to hate him. they just do. waste of time arguing with them about it. they'll take what he says out of context, misquote him, slam his playing etc. and for what? i BET it all boils down to the time he spoke out against thomas. if only we all knew what everybody said about everybody we'd all hate everybody.

me? i'll just look at his performance if you don't mind. yes he has periodic slumps. well whoop tee doo! if we want to search out all the good players in the game i'm pretty sure we'll find slumps in their records. frankly i am happy with a guy who's averaged .278/28/98 for 162 game average thruout his career.
throw in a little fact like .319 with risp with a 1.006 ops this year and you see why he is hands down the sox mvp. you bozo's who'd rather have daubach prove you have no clue about players.

paul is worth every dime he's made this year. .... so choke on it, haters!

:smile:

ma_deuce
09-05-2004, 09:58 PM
paul is worth every dime he's made this year. .... so choke on it, haters!

:smile:He was very good this year, but we were robbed last year.

:reinsy

"You're telling me!"

...how quickly we all forget about GIDPK.

Deuce

idseer
09-05-2004, 11:07 PM
He was very good this year, but we were robbed last year.

...how quickly we all forget about GIDPK.

Deuce
so what? we were robbed on both thomas and magglio this year. stuff happens. the reason doesn't really matter, unless you think he was bad on purpose. i don't know what happened to paul last year, but i know he's recovered tremendously this year. he had 3 years guaranteed and could have slid but he didn't. he MADE himself get thru it. i like that in a player.

this whole thread is pure BS! there was nothing wrong with what paul said in that interview. paul is one of the 2 or 3 GOOD things about the sox this year.
how can so many people be so blind? is it really necessary to say, 'well, yeah .... he's good now, but what about when he wasn't? what good does that do anyone?

ma_deuce
09-07-2004, 03:12 AM
so what? we were robbed on both thomas and magglio this year. stuff happens.
There is an entire world of difference between a player who cannot play because he is injured and a player that lost his swing midseason the year before and continued to struggle all year while making millions in return. Konerko did us no favors last year, though he has come through this year. Thats all I was saying.

Deuce

maurice
09-07-2004, 07:03 PM
take what he says out of context, misquote himWow, you should get a job with one of the presidential campaigns. Konerko was not misquoted or taken out of context. He was simply wrong. Nobody has proven otherwise, nor can they. Get over it.

a 1.006 ops this yearYou've overstated his OPS by more than 100 points. Konerko has never posted anything remotely resembling a 1.000 OPS over a full season. Last season (the topic of his comment and the topic of this thread) his OPS was .704. For the sake of comparison, the other fellow you mentioned posts a 1.000 OPS in an average season.

He was very good this year, but we were robbed last year.so what? So what?!? It's the topic of his comment which is the topic of this thread, notwithstanding your efforts to change the subject.

he is hands down the sox mvp. Wrong again. Konerko is no better than the third most valuable position player on the club this season (probably after Lee and certainly after Rowand). If Frank and Maggs were healthy, he'd rank fifth . . . a respectable standing but not worth $8 million. He indisputably failed to earn his money last season, which may have cost the Sox the division.

Who else at 1st base in the AL has better numbers than Konerko?...Ah ZERO!!Ah, wrong again!

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5909.jpg
"Remember me? I'm a long-time Sox killer who makes only $4.5 million,
and my home park really hurts my production."

mdep524
09-07-2004, 07:38 PM
...how quickly we all forget about GIDPK.
I just wanted to add that the funniest post I have ever read on this board came in the off season when a poster (sorry, I forgot who it was) jokingly said Paulie should be moved to the lead off spot in the line up because he would hit into less double plays. :rolling: :roflmao: :roflmao:

idseer
09-07-2004, 08:33 PM
Wow, you should get a job with one of the presidential campaigns. Konerko was not misquoted or taken out of context. He was simply wrong. Nobody has proven otherwise, nor can they. Get over it.

are ARE wrong. you took what he said out of context.
he said ''When a manager is coming to tell you 'No matter what happens tonight, you're not playing tomorrow,' that to me is not a starting player,'' Konerko said about last season. ''Like I've said, I've never failed as a starting player.''
his context was clear. you missed his point. you may not agree with what he said but that's not the point is it?

You've overstated his OPS by more than 100 points. Konerko has never posted anything remotely resembling a 1.000 OPS over a full season. Last season (the topic of his comment and the topic of this thread) his OPS was .704. For the sake of comparison, the other fellow you mentioned posts a 1.000 OPS in an average season.

you really have a comprehension problem here. i didn't overstate anything. what i said (for the 2nd time) is that his ops with risp this year is 1.006. and that's exactly what it was when i made my post. maybe glasses would help?

So what?!? It's the topic of his comment which is the topic of this thread, notwithstanding your efforts to change the subject.

the topic in part is that he wasn't worth his money last year. and even tho that's true my point was there are many reasons players aren't worth their money in a given year ... and injuries is one of them. it doesn't matter what the reason is. either you play and produce or you don't ... and frankly, paul produced more last year than either thomas or magglio this year.
just look at paul's '03 as an injury plagued year and you won't tie your stomach in knots about it.

Wrong again. Konerko is no better than the third most valuable position player on the club this season (probably after Lee and certainly after Rowand). If Frank and Maggs were healthy, he'd rank fifth . . . a respectable standing but not worth $8 million. He indisputably failed to earn his money last season, which may have cost the Sox the division.

who says i'm wrong? you? who are you? the selection committee? it's my opinion that paul is our mvp this year, and i would bet that most white sox fans here would agree.

you don't like paul. just admit that that fact colors the way you see anything concerning him. you are far from being objective about him.
once again, there was nothing wrong with what paul said in that article

idseer
09-07-2004, 08:37 PM
There is an entire world of difference between a player who cannot play because he is injured and a player that lost his swing midseason the year before and continued to struggle all year while making millions in return. Konerko did us no favors last year, though he has come through this year. Thats all I was saying.

Deuce
i disagree. a player that lost his swing midway thru whatever is as injured as sure as if he broke his foot. it may be a psychological injury, but the result is the same and the result is the only thing that counts. obviously he's better now.

konerko did us no favors last year ....true. but then again, magglio and frank did us no favors this year. magglio and frank had no control over what happened to them, right? well ... paul had no control over what happened to him either. why the insistance he deserves some personal blame?

MisterB
09-07-2004, 08:57 PM
i disagree. a player that lost his swing midway thru whatever is as injured as sure as if he broke his foot. it may be a psychological injury, but the result is the same and the result is the only thing that counts. obviously he's better now.

konerko did us no favors last year ....true. but then again, magglio and frank did us no favors this year. magglio and frank had no control over what happened to them, right? well ... paul had no control over what happened to him either. why the insistance he deserves some personal blame?
So you're saying no player should ever be held accountable for their poor performance, since they're all just 'mentally injured'. Or is it just Paulie who gets a free ride?

idseer
09-07-2004, 09:27 PM
So you're saying no player should ever be held accountable for their poor performance, since they're all just 'mentally injured'. Or is it just Paulie who gets a free ride?not saying any such thing. he is an established power hitter. it's not like he wasn't any good to begin with. he had a big slump ... he's out of it now.

accountability usually comes in the form of being sat down, being traded, being dropped, getting a pay cut .... etc. exactly how do you want to hold him accountable?
this isn't a case of a guy isn't any good. it's a case of a guy who was an all-star the previous year who for whatever reason stopped hitting (like an all-star) for a year. and now he's back putting up all-star type numbers. there's no free ride involved.

MisterB
09-08-2004, 01:35 AM
not saying any such thing. he is an established power hitter. it's not like he wasn't any good to begin with. he had a big slump ... he's out of it now.

accountability usually comes in the form of being sat down, being traded, being dropped, getting a pay cut .... etc. exactly how do you want to hold him accountable?
this isn't a case of a guy isn't any good. it's a case of a guy who was an all-star the previous year who for whatever reason stopped hitting (like an all-star) for a year. and now he's back putting up all-star type numbers. there's no free ride involved.I want him to admit that for the first 3 months of the 2003 season that he stank. He was 'officially benched'* on June 25th, and at that time he was batting .191/.268/.275 with 3 HR and 17 RBI. For those 3 months the only time he wasn't the starting 1B was when Thomas was playing in the interleague games (which PK had sat for occasionally in previous years, too). So now he comes up with this crap about 'never failing as a starting player'. Guess what? At the time he was putting up those crappy numbers - HE WAS A STARTING PLAYER! He played himself out of the lineup and now it's like 'oh that didn't count because I wasn't really starting'. That is B.S. At least Koch had the decency to admit when he pitched like crap, but PK has to make up excuses and deny that he was THE WORST offensive regular in the AL for the first half of '03. Just sack up and take responsibility for it Paul.



*- (and in typical Jerry Manuel fashion, he started June 26th)

StillMissOzzie
09-08-2004, 01:53 AM
it's my opinion that paul is our mvp this year, and i would bet that most white sox fans here would agree.

Not me. Rowand in a landslide, IMHO. PK earned his keep for 2004, producing what he got the big bucks for.

SMO
:gulp:

HITMEN OF 77
09-08-2004, 02:37 AM
Rowand was a pleasant surprise, but no the team MVP. I think AR is second or third with C Lee there as well. Konerko is hands down the team MVP. Most HR's and RBI's and a batting average that is near tops for the team as well, how can you argue with that?

Deadguy
09-08-2004, 02:05 PM
paul konerko haters don't need much reason to hate him. they just do. waste of time arguing with them about it. :smile:*****. There have been plenty of legitimate arguments justifying the hatred of PK in this thread, that you are making a concious effort to ignore. Instead you use a standard cop-out with the above 3? sentences?.

For one thing, we traded away a GG CFer for him 5 years ago. It's nice that he finally became the 40 homerun hitter that we wanted, needed, and expected when we traded for him, but it is too little, too late.

He fell flat on his face on the one year where we needed him the most. Every other year, including 2000, his performance was of minimal consequence in terms of getting us to the playoffs. 2003, we finished just 4 games behind the Twins, and I can only imagine how many runs this reject cost us with his 27 rally killing GIDPs, and hitting BELOW .200 for three months with just 3 freaking homeruns. And all this from a 1B! I have little to no problem with him going hitless against Seattle in 2000, since that is a small sample size to judge a player by, and just about everyone struggled. However, going a month without an EBH and getting just 4 hits in an entire month is absolutley unforgivable. Maybe you are quick to forgive and forget, but I won't be forgiving Slownerko for that anytime soon, since that is the closest we've been to a Playoff Appearance since 2000. I don't really care WHY he struggled, the fact that he did is enough for me to hate his guts.

He is also in the final year of his contract. His trade value is at an all time high. What will he demand after 2005?

Hopefully KW pulls the trigger, and gets this idiot out of town in the off season, and PK can be traded for the 3rd time in his career.

maurice
09-08-2004, 03:00 PM
you took what he said out of context.
Your inane repetition does not make it so. The best excuse you can come up with for your hero is that he tried to redefine the meaning of "starting." That's right up there with making excuses for failing to tell the truth by trying to redefine "is" or inventing terms like "WMD-related program activities."

what i said (for the 2nd time) is that his ops with risp this year is 1.006.
No, that's what you meant to say and what you should have said. What you actually said was the agrammatical: "throw in a little fact like .319 with risp with a 1.006 ops this year and you see why he is hands down the sox mvp." Don't blame others because you can't write clearly.

BTW, it's interesting that the approximately 100-point RISP split is so damn vital to your "argument," while you completely ignore the home/road split (366-point OPS deficit) and the 1st-half/2nd-half split (131-point OPS deficit) previously mentioned in this thread. If those are just coincidences, then the RISP numbers (based on fewer ABs) must also be a coincidence.

you don't like paul. just admit that that fact colors the way you see anything concerning him. you are far from being objective about him.

Actually, I think Konerko is a good but not great player, who is overrated by some Sox fans. Fifth out of 15 or so position players on a MLB team is pretty damn good, as I previously mentioned. It's his refusal to be accountable for his horrible 2003 that I don't like. Every single argument I made is premised on an objective, provable fact.

The rest of what you've said already has been ripped to shreds by other posters.

idseer
09-08-2004, 05:39 PM
Your inane repetition does not make it so. The best excuse you can come up with for your hero is that he tried to redefine the meaning of "starting." That's right up there with making excuses for failing to tell the truth by trying to redefine "is" or inventing terms like "WMD-related program activities." i repeat it because apparently it's not getting thru to you. HE set the context and you ignored it because you don't agree with his premise. whether you buy his statement or not isn't the point tho you keep trying to make it the point.

No, that's what you meant to say and what you should have said. What you actually said was the agrammatical: "throw in a little fact like .319 with risp with a 1.006 ops this year and you see why he is hands down the sox mvp." Don't blame others because you can't write clearly.ok i can see how you misinterpreted that. .319 with risp and 1.006 ops this year WAS "a little fact".

BTW, it's interesting that the approximately 100-point RISP split is so damn vital to your "argument," while you completely ignore the home/road split (366-point OPS deficit) and the 1st-half/2nd-half split (131-point OPS deficit) previously mentioned in this thread. If those are just coincidences, then the RISP numbers (based on fewer ABs) must also be a coincidence.no. it wasn't vital to my argument. it was gravy. it simply added to the point that he's having a great year ... and there's no coincidence about that.

Actually, I think Konerko is a good but not great player, who is overrated by some Sox fans. Fifth out of 15 or so position players on a MLB team is pretty damn good, as I previously mentioned. It's his refusal to be accountable for his horrible 2003 that I don't like. Every single argument I made is premised on an objective, provable fact.
i don't think he's great either. but he is having an excellent year. i think too many sox fans are going out of their way to try and ignore that fact. you being one of them. you'd rather harp on his down year last year. to me that's total bs. and i still don't get what everyone means by 'accountable'. he has admitted he had a bad year last year several times. you want the guy to bleed for you too?

The rest of what you've said already has been ripped to shreds by other posters.that's your opinion. not mine.

maurice
09-08-2004, 08:55 PM
HE set the context and you ignored it because you don't agree with his premise.
Since the "context" is the redefinition of a word in the English language, you're correct that I don't agree with his premise. Words have meanings. We are not free to unilaterally redefine them at whim. He was, in fact, a "starter" last year and he did, in fact, fail miserably. It's not JM's fault that Konerko sucked in 2003.

i don't think he's great either. but he is having an excellent year. i think too many sox fans are going out of their way to try and ignore that fact. you being one of them.
Not at all. He is having a career year, which beats the alternative. But he wasn't talking about this year. He was talking about last year.

you'd rather harp on his down year last year. to me that's total bs. and i still don't get what everyone means by 'accountable'.
Again, Konerko's the one who decided to pass the buck on his crappy 2003. If he said "no comment," "I sucked . . . let's move on," or "I'm having a good year this season," this thread would not exist. Saying "it's not my fault that I sucked" is unacceptable and the OPPOSITE of accountability. It IS his fault that he sucked. If he doesn't want to acknowledge that fact, he should ****.

idseer
09-08-2004, 09:16 PM
Again, Konerko's the one who decided to pass the buck on his crappy 2003. If he said "no comment," "I sucked . . . let's move on," or "I'm having a good year this season," this thread would not exist. Saying "it's not my fault that I sucked" is unacceptable and the OPPOSITE of accountability. It IS his fault that he sucked. If he doesn't want to acknowledge that fact, he should ****.
i didn't read it that way. i don't recall him saying it wasn't his fault he sucked. in fact the article starts off with
"Paul Konerko figures some people still will identify him with the lowest point of his career"
that in itself is an admission he stunk it up last year. they just don't use the word ... sucked! does he have to use that word?

also following that "he became a part-time player for long stretches after getting off to a miserable start" he obviously saw himself as a 'part time player' AFTER he got off to a bad start. at what point that was i don't know. i believe he felt had he just stayed "as a starter" in he would have worked it out. i don't know if he would have or not but that was what he was trying to say. he was NOT suggesting his poor showing was not his fault, however. this is why your whole point was off base.

iwannago
09-10-2004, 02:28 PM
IMO Paulie could say what he wants, the numbers speak for themselves. It's amusing though to read the comments by the same people who call others classless for voicing their own opinions regarding their favorite players or draft picks.