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View Full Version : Question for the Rowand doubters


Frater Perdurabo
08-31-2004, 02:38 PM
I was a Rowand doubter. Even after his hot summer, I remain ambivalent. While I am overjoyed that he continues to produce at the plate and not kill the Sox (or himself) in the field, I have a great fear that he's just having a career year and will regress back to "normal" (whatever that may be) next season.

Believe me, I would like nothing more than ultimately to be proven wrong about him; for a player drafted by the Sox pan out and become a solid .300+ hitter and decent fielder with decent speed. I would LOVE to eat crow.

But as a Sox fan, I am accustomed to disappointment. I remember when Darryl Boston, Kenny Williams, Mike Cameron, McKay Christiansen and Brian Simmons each were supposed to be "the next great thing" in center field.

I'm also accustomed to the Sox not making the playoffs (or losing when they do make it), but strangely I'm not numb to it as 2004 hurts me just as much as 2003, 02, 01, 2000, 98, 97, 96, 95, 94, 93, 92, 91 and 90. (Shall I go on?) It hurts just as much today as it did after predicting "great things" for them in 87, 86, 85, 84, or watching them catch fire and then meekly fold to Baltimore in 83. I'm sure that in February I'll be deluding myself into predicting 95 wins and winning the Central in 2005. But I also know that I'll probably be disappointed at this time next year.

So, how do other Rowand doubters feel about his long-term prospects? (Randar, I'm specifically thinking of you, but all other non-FOC are free to reply as well...)

SEALgep
08-31-2004, 02:43 PM
You know where I stand.

thepaulbowski
08-31-2004, 02:46 PM
I'm cautiously optomistic.....

Baby Fisk
08-31-2004, 02:49 PM
He sucks at bunting! :cool:

OurBitchinMinny
08-31-2004, 03:36 PM
Ill admit he is better than I thought and is not a liability in the field. But rowands supporters (the ones who think he is gonna get or deserves beltran money) still havent sold me on if there is a legitmate reason for him batting under .250 w/RISP (as of last week). He is an improving player, but still not clutch all the time.

I hope he improves in that area and can be CF, or OF for years to come because the sox have enough holes on this team without having to worry about CF...But lets keep in mind hes had 4 solid months (was bad in april and most of may) and sucked for 2 years up here. Long term he is a career .280 hitter with above average power and a solid arm which is more than I ever thought hed be. If only I could be so wrong on that piece of crap borchrad, who will never even be as good as rowand was last year (which was not very good).

balke
08-31-2004, 04:01 PM
Ill admit he is better than I thought and is not a liability in the field. But rowands supporters (the ones who think he is gonna get or deserves beltran money) still havent sold me on if there is a legitmate reason for him batting under .250 w/RISP (as of last week). He is an improving player, but still not clutch all the time.

I hope he improves in that area and can be CF, or OF for years to come because the sox have enough holes on this team without having to worry about CF...But lets keep in mind hes had 4 solid months (was bad in april and most of may) and sucked for 2 years up here. Long term he is a career .280 hitter with above average power and a solid arm which is more than I ever thought hed be. If only I could be so wrong on that piece of crap borchrad, who will never even be as good as rowand was last year (which was not very good).
He's been clutch enough to score the go ahead runs as of late. Like yesterday afternoon. And he wasn't walking before, but now is. Every week he seems to improve. As for RISP maybe it's .250 because he's 1 for 4. Who else on the team is in scoring position for this guy? Rowand's usually leadoff, meaning he's got the bottom of the order on base for him.

I don't know I didn't say all-star next year, because there are a lot of good OF'ers in the game. But I think in his career, definitely an all-star. I think he improves at least in some areas next season. IF Maggs sucks next year, and Frank is gone... I'll bet he's got a good shot at it. He might not hit .320, but .300+ isn't a stretch in my eyes. THe only problem I can see for the kid is if he starts forcing HR's into his diet. I'll take 40 2B just as well as 30 HR any season.

Rowand hit .400 the last two months of last season he played, before Everett came stinking up CF. that's a pretty good stretch of hitting for the kid.

HomeFish
08-31-2004, 04:06 PM
Career year. Rowand will be out of the major leagues by 2007 at the latest.

OurBitchinMinny
08-31-2004, 04:15 PM
He's been clutch enough to score the go ahead runs as of late. Like yesterday afternoon. And he wasn't walking before, but now is. Every week he seems to improve. As for RISP maybe it's .250 because he's 1 for 4. Who else on the team is in scoring position for this guy? Rowand's usually leadoff, meaning he's got the bottom of the order on base for him.

I don't know I didn't say all-star next year, because there are a lot of good OF'ers in the game. But I think in his career, definitely an all-star. I think he improves at least in some areas next season. IF Maggs sucks next year, and Frank is gone... I'll bet he's got a good shot at it. He might not hit .320, but .300+ isn't a stretch in my eyes. THe only problem I can see for the kid is if he starts forcing HR's into his diet. I'll take 40 2B just as well as 30 HR any season.

Rowand hit .400 the last two months of last season he played, before Everett came stinking up CF. that's a pretty good stretch of hitting for the kid.
Everett hit .300 and only made 2 errors out there. And he and lee were the only one who decided to show up for that series in minnesota last september. Everett playing CF over rowand last was not even close to one of the reasons they choked away the division. ANd you say of late he has been better. Why not? the pressure is off, ozzie and the boys have packed it in now since we have stewart grilli and diaz all starting games. He didnt do it when it was on the line. But he wasnt the only one, no one did it. Rowand has been one of the few bright spots on this pathetic team

scottmt
08-31-2004, 04:24 PM
Career year. Rowand will be out of the major leagues by 2007 at the latest.
There are almost no circumstances under which a player of Rowand's age, performing as Rowand is now, would be out of the major leagues 3 years later. Even if he's back to hitting .250, someone will give him a chance based on his performance this year. A little pessimism is healthy, but aren't you being a bit dramatic?

OurBitchinMinny
08-31-2004, 04:27 PM
yeah Ive been about as anti rowand as anyone but rowand will be in the majors in 2007 and he will be serviceable (as long as he stays off the damn motorcycle). Im definitely eating some crow as I have to admit he deserves to start, but his game is far from flawless and being a bright spot on this bunch of losers is not that big a deal. They arent exactly in a pressure cooker right now since they have conceded.

Win1ForMe
08-31-2004, 04:40 PM
My contention for the longest time was that he was a platoon player. At last check, he's hitting .313 with a .889 OPS against RHP. Those numbers are obviously outstanding and I'm happy to eat crow with the rest of the non-FOC. Plus, what's impressive about Rowand is he's a line-drive hitter, and therefore his road splits are actually better than the home splits, which is very rare for our team. As far as his long-term career path, I would hope he continues to play well, although I can't think of many players that have experienced such a drastic improvement. Jose Guillen comes to mind, but otherwise...??

But to put a number on it, I'll be expecting an OPS of somewhere between .850-.900.

balke
08-31-2004, 04:59 PM
Everett hit .300 and only made 2 errors out there. And he and lee were the only one who decided to show up for that series in minnesota last september. Everett playing CF over rowand last was not even close to one of the reasons they choked away the division. ANd you say of late he has been better. Why not? the pressure is off, ozzie and the boys have packed it in now since we have stewart grilli and diaz all starting games. He didnt do it when it was on the line. But he wasnt the only one, no one did it. Rowand has been one of the few bright spots on this pathetic team


He had 2 errors cause they felt sorry for him cause he had no range. I don't care how well everett hit. He was the worst CF in the majors. His range sucks. Sucked then, sucks now. He sucks. Dh, fine, at least he can hit okay. IF I have no better option I put Everett in there, but he cannot play centerfield..

jeremyb1
08-31-2004, 05:08 PM
I've never been a doubter. I thought he was a solid starter at best and an outstanding platoon partner at worst. That said, like pretty much everyone, I never expected this type of success. I'm therefore skeptical that he could ever repeat what's been an unbelievable season (and one driven largely by batting average at that).

Paulwny
08-31-2004, 05:43 PM
I hope I'm wrong and that Rowand continues hitting. Rowand isn't classified as a rookie although this is his first full season and he's putting up above ave stats. Look for pitchers (the pitching union) to start discussing amongst each other how they pitch to Rowand and pitches they are able to get him out with. This collaboration is usually what causes the "sophmore jinx". Next year will tell and if he continues with this type of hitting, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

idseer
08-31-2004, 05:49 PM
Ill admit he is better than I thought and is not a liability in the field. But rowands supporters (the ones who think he is gonna get or deserves beltran money) still havent sold me on if there is a legitmate reason for him batting under .250 w/RISP (as of last week). He is an improving player, but still not clutch all the time.
i explained this to you once already. ... http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=489947#post489947

now let's bring you up to date.

2004 ... aaron rowand:

with runners on base he is hitting .319.
with runners on base with 2 outs he is hitting .293
with runners in scoring position he is hitting .278

*** DO YOU WANT?

balke
08-31-2004, 05:54 PM
i explained this to you once already. ... http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=489947#post489947

now let's bring you up to date.

2004 ... aaron rowand:

with runners on base he is hitting .319.
with runners on base with 2 outs he is hitting .293
with runners in scoring position he is hitting .278

*** DO YOU WANT?
hehehe /own

Dub25
08-31-2004, 05:55 PM
You know where I stand.
Ditto. No need for explanation.

Palehose13
08-31-2004, 06:02 PM
I wasn't anti-Rowand, but I wasn't a FOC either. I guess I was doubtful that he could produce adn I will gladly eat crow on that. I think he is going to be solid (good defense, .280-.290, with decent power) and will be a major league player for a few years. What I like most is that the Sox have the option of going for a CFer or RFer (if Ordonez is gone) and Rowand can fill the other spot. I would also like to see him always at the #1 or #2 spot.

misty60481
08-31-2004, 06:02 PM
I think he is in for a long spell as an OUTSTANDING outfielder, he is a bulldog if he thinks he has any weakness he will work twice as hard to be good at it, I say by the end of next year he will also be one of the best bunters in the league. I may eat crow but he reminds me of young Pete Rose with power, he plays any position doesnt care were he bats in batting order just does his job.....

Win1ForMe
08-31-2004, 06:10 PM
Man, the more and more I look at his current numbers the more amazed I become. Consider that OPS-wise, Maggs has only had one season that is better than Rowand's 2004. And even if Rowand's OPS fell by 65 points next year, that would put him right around Magglio's career average. I don't know if that says more about Rowand or Ordonez. I hope I'm wrong and that Rowand continues hitting. Rowand isn't classified as a rookie although this is his first full season and he's putting up above ave stats. Look for pitchers (the pitching union) to start discussing amongst each other how they pitch to Rowand and pitches they are able to get him out with. This collaboration is usually what causes the "sophmore jinx". Next year will tell and if he continues with this type of hitting, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.
I was initially thinking along the same lines, but then brought up the Jose Guillen example. Had a career year last year and has remained on a similar pace this year. Of course some could argue Guillen was more highly touted as a prospect, and therefore is playing up to his ability as opposed to "over his head." Of course the Rowand supporter could then argue Aaron's high draft status in 1998.

Randar68
08-31-2004, 06:27 PM
I hope I'm wrong and that Rowand continues hitting. Rowand isn't classified as a rookie although this is his first full season and he's putting up above ave stats. Look for pitchers (the pitching union) to start discussing amongst each other how they pitch to Rowand and pitches they are able to get him out with. This collaboration is usually what causes the "sophmore jinx". Next year will tell and if he continues with this type of hitting, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.
He had over 500 AB's and 350+ in one season. How can this be "his first full season?" He was handed the job and couldn't hold onto it before. Let's not all get carried away.

I hope he keeps his stroke short, his routes crisp, his reads accurate, and his eye keen. He's been streaky in the past, so let's hope that his numbers on the year are what we'll get from him on average. I'm more than happy to eat crow on his performance, but his current numbers are a little bloated due to the percentage of AB's he's had against LHP who he owns, vs. RHP, who until this past month or so, he's never shown he was capable of hitting consistently against.

Next year will be big for him, no doubt. The team is going to be totally different and there's no doubt that he's going to be an integral part of whatever it looks like next year.

Also, to those that want to see him lead-off? Ummmmmm.... no.

Palehose13
08-31-2004, 06:31 PM
Also, to those that want to see him lead-off? Ummmmmm.... no.
I want him in the 2 spot, but out of everyone on the team I think I like him the best. I would love for the Sox to pick up a real lead off man, but I don't think he is that bad of an option. It's not like I want to see Frank or CLee lead off. :wink:

idseer
08-31-2004, 08:08 PM
He had over 500 AB's and 350+ in one season. How can this be "his first full season?" He was handed the job and couldn't hold onto it before. Let's not all get carried away.second time you've made this claim. exactly what year was it he had over 350 ab's? because in the 2 locations i've checked (espn and baseballreference.com)the most ab's he ever had was 302 in '02.
and in no way shape or form was he "handed the job". he filled in! he started some and was a late inning replacement in a lot others plus he played all 3 outfield positions.

idseer
08-31-2004, 08:13 PM
perhaps you're thinking of our STARTING cf'r that year, kenny lofton who did have 352 ab's? lee was in left, magglio in right. rowand was NOT given a good shot that year at all. he played when loften couldn't and as i said, spelled lee and magglio too.

Randar68
08-31-2004, 09:47 PM
perhaps you're thinking of our STARTING cf'r that year, kenny lofton who did have 352 ab's? lee was in left, magglio in right. rowand was NOT given a good shot that year at all. he played when loften couldn't and as i said, spelled lee and magglio too.
may be it, I knew it was in the 300's, but for some reason thought it was 350...

mealfred13
09-01-2004, 12:53 AM
Career year. Rowand will be out of the major leagues by 2007 at the latest.
Pay no attention to this :dtroll: . If you've been around here at all this season, you'd know that HomeFish is a closet Cub fan. BUT ANYWAYS.... Here was my prediction for Rowand, from early in the preseason:

"Took the words out of my mouth... I'm also going to play devil's advocate here and say that Rowand will hit in the upper .290s to the low .300s. As far as I recall, he's never been given a chance to play a full season as a starter, and last year, when given a chance to hit for a stretch, he always seemed to be on a hot streak...
"

Linky for the doubters: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=333320&postcount=10

doublem23
09-01-2004, 02:56 AM
I'm heading to Cooperstown this weekend so I can be first in line for the Aaron Rowand Hall of Fame induction. :rolleyes:

Go Aaron... Here's to '05 being as good as '04. :gulp:

Rex Hudler
09-01-2004, 03:59 AM
but his current numbers are a little bloated due to the percentage of AB's he's had against LHP who he owns, vs. RHP, who until this past month or so, he's never shown he was capable of hitting consistently against.


Randar, I agree with your post in general, but you keep making this claim. As of now, Rowand has had 36.5 % of his AB's against LHP's. As of the beginning of this season, 33.7% of starters in the AL were LHP's and 39.6% of the starters in the AL Central were left-handed, where the Sox play a heavily weighted schedule.

I can't say that I have updated those numbers or have counted the number of relievers in that equation, but by my math, I doubt either of those would change the numbers significantly. And the way I view it, based on those numbers or somewhat similar numbers, I don't see how 36.5% would be considered bloated.

May I propose that you are affected by perception more so than reality in this situation, based on the fact that he was platooning for a period earlier this season? Yes his numbers are lower against RHP's, but he is hitting .316/.352 against righties. I suspect that many players have a variation in their RH/LH splits that are as big or bigger.

Iguana775
09-01-2004, 08:47 AM
Randar, I agree with your post in general, but you keep making this claim. As of now, Rowand has had 36.5 % of his AB's against LHP's. As of the beginning of this season, 33.7% of starters in the AL were LHP's and 39.6% of the starters in the AL Central were left-handed, where the Sox play a heavily weighted schedule.

I can't say that I have updated those numbers or have counted the number of relievers in that equation, but by my math, I doubt either of those would change the numbers significantly. And the way I view it, based on those numbers or somewhat similar numbers, I don't see how 36.5% would be considered bloated.

May I propose that you are affected by perception more so than reality in this situation, based on the fact that he was platooning for a period earlier this season? Yes his numbers are lower against RHP's, but he is hitting .316/.352 against righties. I suspect that many players have a variation in their RH/LH splits that are as big or bigger.
How dare you use fact to make a point!!

lol. ;)

gosox41
09-01-2004, 09:31 AM
Ill admit he is better than I thought and is not a liability in the field. But rowands supporters (the ones who think he is gonna get or deserves beltran money) still havent sold me on if there is a legitmate reason for him batting under .250 w/RISP (as of last week). He is an improving player, but still not clutch all the time.

I hope he improves in that area and can be CF, or OF for years to come because the sox have enough holes on this team without having to worry about CF...But lets keep in mind hes had 4 solid months (was bad in april and most of may) and sucked for 2 years up here. Long term he is a career .280 hitter with above average power and a solid arm which is more than I ever thought hed be. If only I could be so wrong on that piece of crap borchrad, who will never even be as good as rowand was last year (which was not very good).
Who here sais that about RRowand getting Beltran money.

Reminds me of all the KW supporters who think that all Billy Beane supporters think he is perfect. He's not, he's just a lot better then KW.

And Rowand will more likely make Francis Beltran money, not Carlos Beltran money.



Bob