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Lip Man 1
08-31-2004, 11:25 AM
Big changes comin' folks.....be ready!!!!! From today's story in the Daily Southtown.

"We have a chance to be a different team next year, the defense needs to be improved. Consistency, baseball basics need to be improved.

"We've been playing with the same people for six years, and had the same results. I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to change the scenario here. That's going to be my suggestion."---Ozzie Guillen

Lip

Baby Fisk
08-31-2004, 11:30 AM
Big changes comin' folks.....be ready!!!!! From today's story in the Daily Southtown.

"We have a chance to be a different team next year, the defense needs to be improved. Consistency, baseball basics need to be improved.

"We've been playing with the same people for six years, and had the same results. I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to change the scenario here. That's going to be my suggestion."---Ozzie Guillen

LipThe minute he walked back through the door, Ozzie said he wanted players to go out there and play. He wanted them to show up and be ready to play with intensity. With the above quote, he's essentially saying these are not guys who are PLAYING WITH INTENSITY. Here's hoping for an active and inspiring off-season. :gulp:

Tekijawa
08-31-2004, 11:34 AM
Is this why we saw the "b-team" line up yesterday?

SomebodyToldMe
08-31-2004, 11:42 AM
Big changes comin' folks.....be ready!!!!! From today's story in the Daily Southtown.

"We have a chance to be a different team next year, the defense needs to be improved. Consistency, baseball basics need to be improved.

BYE BYE, VALENTIN!

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyes!

samram
08-31-2004, 11:43 AM
Is this why we saw the "b-team" line up yesterday?
No, the "b-team" lineup has been out there since mid-July.

Baby Fisk
08-31-2004, 11:53 AM
No, the "b-team" lineup has been out there since mid-July.ZING! :cheers:

DrCrawdad
08-31-2004, 11:56 AM
Put The Gloadinator in the line-up the majority of the remainder of the season.

Hangar18
08-31-2004, 01:38 PM
I dont mind Valentin on the team ......... just KEEP HIM CHEAPER THIS TIME,
his bat off the bench is imposing too ........

Frater Perdurabo
08-31-2004, 01:47 PM
I dont mind Valentin on the team ......... just KEEP HIM CHEAPER THIS TIME,
his bat off the bench is imposing too ........

I'm OK with any Sox player remaining next year...AT THE RIGHT PRICE. $5M for Jose is too much. $1M might be OK. He could be a platoon partner for someone and bat ONLY against righties.

If Maggs leaves, Jose Cruz, Jr. might be a good addition and PARTIAL replacement, again AT THE RIGHT PRICE. He kills lefties, one of the biggest problems the Sox have had this year.

Lem_Siddons
08-31-2004, 02:03 PM
If only it was that easy. By the time contracts are figured out and trades talked, we aren't going to suddenly be the swift small ball team that Oz wants. It cannot change over night.

npdempse
08-31-2004, 02:08 PM
FWIW, here's a good list of the free agents available this year:

http://kmbumb.people.wm.edu/05agency.html

Not that we'll do much of our building that way, but it seems to show that there's some big names out there that will make this an interesting off season.

balke
08-31-2004, 02:27 PM
I want a shortstop that can actually play D w/ range. Valentin can turn double plays great, but I'd like to see someone better/faster out there.


I don't like the sound of this coming from Ozzie. Between Ozzie and KW that probably means Frank is gone. I'll be ticked.

thepaulbowski
08-31-2004, 03:44 PM
I want a shortstop that can actually play D w/ range. Valentin can turn double plays great, but I'd like to see someone better/faster out there.


I don't like the sound of this coming from Ozzie. Between Ozzie and KW that probably means Frank is gone. I'll be ticked.
Frank has the option on his end, he will be back.

Baby Fisk
08-31-2004, 03:48 PM
I don't like the sound of this coming from Ozzie. Between Ozzie and KW that probably means Frank is gone. I'll be ticked.There's no way Frank leaves this team without triggering a violent reaction by the fans. Pitchforks! Flaming torches! You want ballpark renovations? The villagers would burn the damn thing to the ground! :angry:

DVsoxfan
08-31-2004, 03:52 PM
I don't know about you, but I'm looking forward to this offseason, and 2005. Ozzie will play a big role in who stays/who goes/who comes. Maybe Pavano will want to come here because of his experience with Oz in FL?? We can hope at least. I think we will have a much better team next year, even if we don't have Maggs.

samram
08-31-2004, 04:08 PM
I don't know about you, but I'm looking forward to this offseason, and 2005. Ozzie will play a big role in who stays/who goes/who comes. Maybe Pavano will want to come here because of his experience with Oz in FL?? We can hope at least. I think we will have a much better team next year, even if we don't have Maggs.
I'm looking forward to it also. I think the Sox will be active in the FA pitching market. I don't know if the offense will be better next year on paper, but I don't think there's any doubt it will be different, and hopefully the roster will be deeper. The bullpen also has to be much better- if it's pieces thrown together like this year, I'm not going to be very optimistic no matter what else is done.

Flight #24
08-31-2004, 04:53 PM
I want a shortstop that can actually play D w/ range. Valentin can turn double plays great, but I'd like to see someone better/faster out there.


I don't like the sound of this coming from Ozzie. Between Ozzie and KW that probably means Frank is gone. I'll be ticked.
As people have noted, Frank will decide if he's back (and as a 10-5 guy, he can veto any trade). That's good. Hopefully by the time the team gets a buyout, he & KW/JR can hammer out something to keep him here until retirement.

As for Valentin, he's currently got the 2d highest Range Factor and Zone Rating among all MLB SSs. I will certainly agree that those aren't the be-all/end-all in evaluating defensive performanc,e but they support what I've sen in watching him - he gets to a ton of balls that most SSs do not. He makes more errors, but he is in fact, a very good defensive SS with a lot of range.

balke
08-31-2004, 04:57 PM
As people have noted, Frank will decide if he's back (and as a 10-5 guy, he can veto any trade). That's good. Hopefully by the time the team gets a buyout, he & KW/JR can hammer out something to keep him here until retirement.

As for Valentin, he's currently got the 2d highest Range Factor and Zone Rating among all MLB SSs. I will certainly agree that those aren't the be-all/end-all in evaluating defensive performanc,e but they support what I've sen in watching him - he gets to a ton of balls that most SSs do not. He makes more errors, but he is in fact, a very good defensive SS with a lot of range.

I did not know that, I'll take your word for it. I guess I'll go back to the Valentin back for cheaper gripe. I don't mind his striking out if he's producing defensively, hitting is definitely not a problem for the sox w/ or w/o Frank and Maggs.

pinwheels3530
08-31-2004, 05:01 PM
There's no way Frank leaves this team without triggering a violent reaction by the fans. Pitchforks! Flaming torches! You want ballpark renovations? The villagers would burn the damn thing to the ground! :angry::roflmao:Frank should retire a SOX

winning ugly 72
08-31-2004, 05:03 PM
I'm tired of Jose we need a change at short everytime i see the guy bat with runners in scoring position he usually strikes out or fouls out. in the field he has improved but he still had some crucial errors that cost us some games

Flight #24
08-31-2004, 05:10 PM
Looking through this list, there are a lot of options to "reload" instead of rebuilding this team:

Leadoff/2B - Womack, Todd Walker, Catallanotto, Vizquel

Bullpen: Jose Lima, Wilson Alvarez, Paul Shuey, Cal Eldred, Steve Kline, Rheal Cormier, Elmer Dessens, David Weathers, Glendon Rusch, Steve Sparks, Jeff nelson, Jeff Zimmerman, Ron Villone, Terry Mulholland, Urbina, Ramiro Mendoza, Scott Williamson, Troy Percival

SP: Chris Carpenter, Matt Morris, Kevin Millwood (assuming he's healthy), Eric Milton, Odalis Perez, Carl Pavano, Ismael Valdez, Matt Clement, El Duque, Brad Radke

Grab any 2 of the relievers (yes, I included some starters there, but I think they'd make better relievers) at 2mil each. Grab a starter like Carpenter/Milton/Perez/El Duque at 5mil (or less), grab a 2B at 2-3mil and for 11mil, you have a much more balanced team with the 2B & ARow at the top proividing OBP for the bashers and some solid slugging in Valentin at the #7 spot where his K's dont hurt so much (and he'll bat with guys on base a ton). Platoon Crede/Uribe/Valentin at 3B & SS.

Flight #24
08-31-2004, 05:12 PM
I did not know that, I'll take your word for it. I guess I'll go back to the Valentin back for cheaper gripe. I don't mind his striking out if he's producing defensively, hitting is definitely not a problem for the sox w/ or w/o Frank and Maggs.
I think if you can make him a #7 hitter, he's a great deal becuase he should be available for 3mil or maybe even less. in the 7th spot, batting behind ARow-Frank-Lee-Koney-Everett, he'll have a ton of guys on base. And his hitting with RISP has always been very good (IIRC, he's hit like .280 with RISP over the past 3 years per ESPN's stats).

batmanZoSo
08-31-2004, 06:55 PM
Put Rowand in front of Frank and he's gonna do some damage. He's got way too much power to be leading off. He's got 20 homers and 51 rbis. What's that? It could be 20 homers and 76 rbis if he's in a more rbi friendly position. And he probably has the best bat control and speed combo of all possible 2 holers on this team.

Valentin has to go, plain and simple.

Jeff Nelson and Steve Kline would be great additions. I say we need two stud relievers to come this way. I do NOT understand why KW hasn't in his time really tried to assemble a dominant middle relief. That's absolutely paramount for a team with a limited payroll. It's the easiest and cheapest way to knock your team up a notch. I don't get it. We can't win anything without major overhaul to the pen.

I like Catalanotto a lot. He's a good lefty hitter that doesn't make that much money, but there's nowhere to put him. He's a little big for second, which is what he used to play, but I don't know if he can handle it. We need a SS or 2b that can lead off really bad. Unfortunately, there's no one really out there that makes you excited. Vizquel is not likely to leave Cleveland, I haven't heard from Womack since 2001, Pokey Reese we already have in Willie.

kitekrazy
08-31-2004, 07:18 PM
I just can't understand the organizations love affair with Jose V. If he is on the team next year (he ain't worth the league minimum) then I would say any statement about improving the team is totally false.

And with statements coming from the Sox organization is totally useless until they prove it.