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View Full Version : Vizquel, huh??


Jurr
08-27-2004, 12:11 AM
Apparently, it may be looking pretty positive regarding our chances to get Omar Vizquel for next season and possibly beyond. Cleveland had a news article about it, and I think he'd be a good addition.

Teams that win have a good blend of veterans and youth. Vizquel would be a good avg. guy to help us out, and he's got that glove. I'd be all for it. Put uribe at third and either get a new second bagger or put Harris there and cross your fingers. He's close to being solid. He needs time, just like Rowand did. Unlike Crede, Harris has shown enough to warrant staying.

Konerko at first, and we'd have a decent infield. An infield that can hit and can keep runs from scoring easily.

jabrch
08-27-2004, 12:15 AM
Apparently, it may be looking pretty positive regarding our chances to get Omar Vizquel for next season and possibly beyond. Cleveland had a news article about it, and I think he'd be a good addition.

Teams that win have a good blend of veterans and youth. Vizquel would be a good avg. guy to help us out, and he's got that glove. I'd be all for it. Put uribe at third and either get a new second bagger or put Harris there and cross your fingers. He's close to being solid. He needs time, just like Rowand did. Unlike Crede, Harris has shown enough to warrant staying.

Konerko at first, and we'd have a decent infield. An infield that can hit and can keep runs from scoring easily.
I didn't know he had any interest in coming here. I know he has 10/5 rights, and had no interest in leaving Cleveland this year. I know that Cleveland loves him, and he and his family are a big part of the Cleveland community. Frankly, I'd be surprised he'd want to come here. I'd also be shocked if the Injuns wanted to trade their veteran team leader. They have a great young team, but Vizquel is the captain - the leader - of all those kids.

What did the article from Cleveland say that indicates he may be with us next year?

JRIG
08-27-2004, 12:16 AM
Apparently, it may be looking pretty positive regarding our chances to get Omar Vizquel for next season and possibly beyond. Cleveland had a news article about it, and I think he'd be a good addition.

Teams that win have a good blend of veterans and youth. Vizquel would be a good avg. guy to help us out, and he's got that glove. I'd be all for it. Put uribe at third and either get a new second bagger or put Harris there and cross your fingers. He's close to being solid. He needs time, just like Rowand did. Unlike Crede, Harris has shown enough to warrant staying.

Konerko at first, and we'd have a decent infield. An infield that can hit and can keep runs from scoring easily.
So, with Uribe, Vizquel, Harris and Konerko, that's an infield that can hit? One out of four ain't bad I guess.

I'm not entirely against Vizquel, but if he's on board you need upgrades at both 2B and 3B.

nodiggity59
08-27-2004, 12:22 AM
So, with Uribe, Vizquel, Harris and Konerko, that's an infield that can hit? One out of four ain't bad I guess.

I'm not entirely against Vizquel, but if he's on board you need upgrades at both 2B and 3B.
I agree that Uribe-Harris-Vizquel isn't necesarily stellar offensively, but keep in mind they represent almost a full point higher BA than the infield with Valentin-Crede AND have signiicantly more speed.

Win1ForMe
08-27-2004, 12:24 AM
Apparently, it may be looking pretty positive regarding our chances to get Omar Vizquel for next season and possibly beyond. Cleveland had a news article about it, and I think he'd be a good addition.

Teams that win have a good blend of veterans and youth. Vizquel would be a good avg. guy to help us out, and he's got that glove. I'd be all for it. Put uribe at third and either get a new second bagger or put Harris there and cross your fingers. He's close to being solid. He needs time, just like Rowand did. Unlike Crede, Harris has shown enough to warrant staying.

Konerko at first, and we'd have a decent infield. An infield that can hit and can keep runs from scoring easily.
I like the Vizquel idea but he's at a point in his career where we might see a rapid decline (*cough RobbieAlomar cough*). There's some risk involved.

nodiggity59
08-27-2004, 12:27 AM
I like the Vizquel idea but he's at a point in his career where we might see a rapid decline (*cough RobbieAlomar cough*). There's some risk involved.True. One year contract w/ team option would be ideal. It would give Uribe one more year to either season or spoil

Mohoney
08-27-2004, 12:30 AM
So, with Uribe, Vizquel, Harris and Konerko, that's an infield that can hit? One out of four ain't bad I guess.

I'm not entirely against Vizquel, but if he's on board you need upgrades at both 2B and 3B.

Vizquel is a .306 hitter with a .365 OBP. I would LOVE to lead him off, bat Aaron Rowand 2nd, and go from there.

If you told me that my leadoff guy was going to start 59 or 60 games off by getting on base, I would do cartwheels. Plus, the guy is an absolute vacuum at SS. He would be the best defensive SS this team has had since Luis Aparicio.

If he came here, and Alex Escobar can win the CF job and hit 8th, we could be set.

1 Vizquel SS
2 Rowand RF
3 Lee LF
4 Thomas DH
5 Konerko 1B
6 Davis C
7 Uribe 3B
8 Escobar CF
9 Harris 2B

I could live with Willie batting 9th, as long as Escobar can produce in the 8th spot. Our 9, 1, and 2 guys would all be good baserunners, too, and might be able to manufacture quick runs IF Willie ever decides to learn how to steal a base. I have visions in my head of Willie drawing a walk, stealing 2nd, Vizquel bunting him over to 3rd, and Aaron driving him in with a sac fly. Then, leave it up to Lee, Thomas, and Konerko to start a few 2 out rallies.

JRIG
08-27-2004, 12:33 AM
Vizquel is a .306 hitter with a .365 OBP. I would LOVE to lead him off, bat Aaron Rowand 2nd, and go from there.

If you told me that my leadoff guy was going to start 59 or 60 games off by getting on base, I would do cartwheels. Plus, the guy is an absolute vacuum at SS. He would be the best defensive SS this team has had since Luis Aparicio.

If he came here, and Alex Escobar can win the CF job and hit 8th, we could be set.

1 Vizquel SS
2 Rowand RF
3 Lee LF
4 Thomas DH
5 Konerko 1B
6 Davis C
7 Uribe 3B
8 Escobar CF
9 Harris 2B

I could live with Willie batting 9th, as long as Escobar can produce in the 8th spot. Our 9, 1, and 2 guys would all be good baserunners, too, and might be able to manufacture quick runs IF Willie ever decides to learn how to steal a base. I have visions in my head of Willie drawing a walk, stealing 2nd, Vizquel bunting him over to 3rd, and Aaron driving him in with a sac fly. Then, leave it up to Lee, Thomas, and Konerko to start a few 2 out rallies.
I'm sorry, but that's a 65-win lineup. You will get ZERO production out of the 6-9 spots in the order. Vizquel may have a "fall off the face of the Earth" season at any time, and and much as I am plesantly surprised at what Rowand has given this team this season, I'm not sold on him. As a center-fielder maybe, but not as a right fielder.

No matter how good the pitching is, you can't win if you score 0 runs.

HomeFish
08-27-2004, 12:50 AM
With 18 fewer games against us, you bet that average is going to drop.

Mohoney
08-27-2004, 12:51 AM
I'm sorry, but that's a 65-win lineup. You will get ZERO production out of the 6-9 spots in the order. Vizquel may have a "fall off the face of the Earth" season at any time, and and much as I am plesantly surprised at what Rowand has given this team this season, I'm not sold on him. As a center-fielder maybe, but not as a right fielder.

No matter how good the pitching is, you can't win if you score 0 runs.

That 6-9 is better than what we currently have, though. Uribe isn't the 2nd coming of Robin Ventura or anything, but if he's given a full season, he will probably give us better production than what we're getting out of Joe Crede right now. I would also hope that Escobar's numbers would be an upgrade over Joe Borchard's, but If Borchard wants to go ahead and win the RF job in Spring Training, then Escobar can battle it out with Timo Perez for the 4th OF spot with Rowand playing CF. Willie Harris has had some decent games batting 9th, and I would hope that he would continue to do so. Any OBP of .300+ from Ben Davis is fine by me. I'm not expecting him to hit .300 next year, but .250 is fine for me as long as he draws an occasional walk and hits 12-15 HR.

We're basically trading Valentin's power for Vizquel's OBP, and I'm giving guys like Davis, Rowand, Uribe, and Harris a chance to show me what they can do in a full season. At least these guys are showing me something out there, which is more than I can say for Crede and Garland.

If I had my way, Crede, Garland, Cotts, and Everett would all be used to get me pitching help. Garland and Cotts might get me Gil Meche, and Crede might get me a real good pitching prospect. Everett could probably fetch some pitching help, too, if he's dealt to a team starved for lefty power.

Man Soo Lee
08-27-2004, 01:02 AM
That 6-9 is better than what we currently have, though. Maybe, but the current 6-9 is the biggest reason the team has had three straight losing months. If Ben Davis is going to bat sixth, we might as well start creating imaginary lineups for the 2006 Sox.

Mohoney
08-27-2004, 01:14 AM
Maybe, but the current 6-9 is the biggest reason the team has had three straight losing months. If Ben Davis is going to bat sixth, we might as well start creating imaginary lineups for the 2006 Sox.

What do we do then? Make a lineup for next year.

owensmouth
08-27-2004, 02:00 AM
Forget Visquel. He's not coming to the White Sox. He's not going to leave that young team full of studs to join KW's duds.

HaroMaster87
08-27-2004, 02:38 AM
Forget Visquel. He's not coming to the White Sox. He's not going to leave that young team full of studs to join KW's duds.
Not to mention, isn't he pushing 40?

owensmouth
08-27-2004, 02:52 AM
Not to mention, isn't he pushing 40?
Yeah, that only makes KW salivate.

OurBitchinMinny
08-27-2004, 03:23 AM
Apparently, it may be looking pretty positive regarding our chances to get Omar Vizquel for next season and possibly beyond. Cleveland had a news article about it, and I think he'd be a good addition.

Teams that win have a good blend of veterans and youth. Vizquel would be a good avg. guy to help us out, and he's got that glove. I'd be all for it. Put uribe at third and either get a new second bagger or put Harris there and cross your fingers. He's close to being solid. He needs time, just like Rowand did. Unlike Crede, Harris has shown enough to warrant staying.

Konerko at first, and we'd have a decent infield. An infield that can hit and can keep runs from scoring easily.neither harris or crede have warranted staying. But crede has more talent and is solid defensively. I give him one more year. If I dotn see harris again that would be fine, but if hes back fine too

Iguana775
08-27-2004, 07:05 AM
I would love for the sox to get him. awesome glove and a .300 hitter (at least this year). though he may not have the power of Jose, he puts the ball in play and that's what the sox need.

gosox41
08-27-2004, 07:29 AM
Not to mention, isn't he pushing 40?
But this is a perfect chance for KW to add another old ex-Indian to this team to go alond with Sandy and Robbie. If we only had Colon and Lofton back. Maybe the team that couldn't win it all in their primes will do it while pushing 40.

Where's Travis Fryman when you need him?


Bob

Jjav829
08-27-2004, 07:43 AM
Forget Visquel. He's not coming to the White Sox. He's not going to leave that young team full of studs to join KW's duds.
It's likely not going to be his choice. The Indians are probably going to want to get either (or both) Jhonny Peralta and Brandon Phillips a chance to play next year. I don't think they are going to want him back.

On the other hand, if we lose Valentine we need a shortstop whose name can be easily misspelled so maybe Visquel can do the trick.

samram
08-27-2004, 07:57 AM
It's likely not going to be his choice. The Indians are probably going to want to get either (or both) Jhonny Peralta and Brandon Phillips a chance to play next year. I don't think they are going to want him back.

On the other hand, if we lose Valentine we need a shortstop whose name can be easily misspelled so maybe Visquel can do the trick.

Spelling fun could also be had with Renteria. Renterria, Rennterea, Rentterria, Rentera, Ventura, etc.:D:

Dadawg_77
08-27-2004, 09:02 AM
First off, I don't think Cleveland will exercise their part of the mutual option for Vizquel at 7.5 plus. So he should be a free agent. Secondly, this has been his best year in the past five years and at his ages, I don't expect him to repeat this years production or exceed it. So unless he can be signed for less then two million, I would pass on him any thing else would be a mistake.

gosox63
08-27-2004, 09:30 AM
Apparently, it may be looking pretty positive regarding our chances to get Omar Vizquel for next season and possibly beyond. Cleveland had a news article about it, and I think he'd be a good addition.

Teams that win have a good blend of veterans and youth. Vizquel would be a good avg. guy to help us out, and he's got that glove. I'd be all for it. Put uribe at third and either get a new second bagger or put Harris there and cross your fingers. He's close to being solid. He needs time, just like Rowand did. Unlike Crede, Harris has shown enough to warrant staying.

Konerko at first, and we'd have a decent infield. An infield that can hit and can keep runs from scoring easily.
An infield that can hit??????

how do you figure

Brian26
08-27-2004, 09:32 AM
I just don't think you can ever have enough ex-Indians players on your team. Albert Belle, Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Bartolo Colon, Robbie Alomar, and now Vizquel.

If we could only get Brook Jacoby and Rick Manning, our fate would turn around.

samram
08-27-2004, 09:37 AM
I just don't think you can ever have enough ex-Indians players on your team. Albert Belle, Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Bartolo Colon, Robbie Alomar, and now Vizquel.

If we could only get Brook Jacoby and Rick Manning, our fate would turn around.
Don't forget Mr. Grand Slam himself, Mike Jackson.

jackbrohamer
08-27-2004, 09:42 AM
If we could only get Brook Jacoby and Rick Manning, our fate would turn around.
How about Fred Kendall? He may help lure his kid Jason here

PaulDrake
08-27-2004, 10:13 AM
I like the Vizquel idea but he's at a point in his career where we might see a rapid decline (*cough RobbieAlomar cough*). There's some risk involved. I think there's a lot of risk involved. He was a fine player but his time is past.

SEALgep
08-27-2004, 10:39 AM
Vizquel is a .306 hitter with a .365 OBP. I would LOVE to lead him off, bat Aaron Rowand 2nd, and go from there.

If you told me that my leadoff guy was going to start 59 or 60 games off by getting on base, I would do cartwheels. Plus, the guy is an absolute vacuum at SS. He would be the best defensive SS this team has had since Luis Aparicio.

If he came here, and Alex Escobar can win the CF job and hit 8th, we could be set.

1 Vizquel SS
2 Rowand RF
3 Lee LF
4 Thomas DH
5 Konerko 1B
6 Davis C
7 Uribe 3B
8 Escobar CF
9 Harris 2B

I could live with Willie batting 9th, as long as Escobar can produce in the 8th spot. Our 9, 1, and 2 guys would all be good baserunners, too, and might be able to manufacture quick runs IF Willie ever decides to learn how to steal a base. I have visions in my head of Willie drawing a walk, stealing 2nd, Vizquel bunting him over to 3rd, and Aaron driving him in with a sac fly. Then, leave it up to Lee, Thomas, and Konerko to start a few 2 out rallies.Doesn't sound bad to me, provides flexibility in the lineup. Something that should be observed with this as well, is that it would allow some money to really be dipped into pitching, starting and the pen.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2004, 10:42 AM
If you are talking old Indians Brett Butler right now is better then any of the slugs the Sox have batting leadoff.

Lip

NonetheLoaiza
08-27-2004, 10:48 AM
what about ex-indian herbit perry

Wanne
08-27-2004, 11:18 AM
Personally...I'd like to see KW go after Jose Vidro and switch Uribe over to 3rd permanently (buh-bye Willie Harris).

I'm also not sure if completely blowing up the team is feasible...but either CLee or Konerko need to be moved...and my guess is it'll be probably Lee who would bring back more.

Flight #24
08-27-2004, 11:59 AM
I'm also not sure if completely blowing up the team is feasible...but either CLee or Konerko need to be moved...and my guess is it'll be probably Lee who would bring back more.
Umm....why? If it's because that's the only way to improve another area, then maybe. But who are you realistically going to get for them at 2b, 3B, SS for them? If it's because "they're part of the problem" or "the core hasn't worked for 4 years", then I think it's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction and s actually counterproductive. You keep solid offensive players and fix things around them.

Brian26
08-27-2004, 12:03 PM
If you are talking old Indians Brett Butler right now is better then any of the slugs the Sox have batting leadoff.

Lip

Except for a guy by the name of Aaron Rowand who's batting .320 w/ 20 homers.

Foulke You
08-27-2004, 12:09 PM
I would be extremely concerned about Vizquel's health as well as his production at this point in his career. He has been very injury prone the last few seasons and this year is his first season of relative health in a long time. If you can get Vizquel cheaply, it might be worth it for his defense and the fact that he is a very pesky offensive player that we lack but I wouldn't break the bank on him.