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View Full Version : Another fan's trade idea: Sox Can Afford...


DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 06:17 PM
Here's how:

Do not resign Maggs or Valentin. Trade Konerko and Lee for young minor league prospects--guys with speed and strong arms that can play the field and not strike out often.

Our team then shapes up like this:
1B Gload
2B Harris
SS Renteria
3B Koskie
LF Everett
CF Rowand
RF Escobar
C Davis
DH Thomas

BENCH:
Uribe
R. Alomar
Borchard
Perez
Burke

PITCHERS:
Pavano SP
Radke SP
Garcia SP
Buerhle SP
Contreras SP
Garland RH SU
Marte LH SU
Cotts LH R
Adkins RH R
Diaz RH (Mop-up)
Shingo CLOSER

Now we still have Crede we could trade for another reliever or a RF if Alex Escobar doesn't win the job in spring training. Konerko & Lee should bring in some good young prospects. Maybe if packaged with a Borchard or Perez, we can get a versatile player like a Chone Figgins or a Rob Mackowiack for Lee or Konerko.

At any rate, our pitching staff would be outstanding to say the least, with Garland in the BP ready to jump back in as a fifth starter if one of our aces goes down with arm trouble.

We'd miss the bats of Maggs, Lee and Konerko, but we'd be rid of that core of players that always underachieves, and we would add more speed and better infield defense.

This is all very affordable and can be realistically done. It's time for a change.

DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 06:21 PM
Oh yeah...and getting Radke and Koskie not only improves us tremendously, it also weakens the Twins! :bandance:

MRKARNO
08-26-2004, 06:31 PM
I'm against any plan that includes getting rid the power bats of Konerko or Lee and also any plan that fails to shore up our bullpen. That bullpen that you proposed is still in all likelihood a sub-par and definately not a championship pen. In addition, I would like to ask you, what kind of team has won or gotten to the World Series lately without the benefit of a lineup with pretty good power? You do want to get rid of the all or nothing guys if you can like Valentin and Crede, but you definately don't want to get rid of Lee and Konerko, who offer more than just the Home Run ball. BTW Koskie has been no better than Crede lately.

What we really should be focusing on is acquiring another starting pitcher, shoring up the bullpen and adding a SS with a high OBP or a 3B with a high OBP.

DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 06:40 PM
Koskie is hitting .251 with 22 HR's and is a better ballplayer than Crede.

That bullpen is pretty darn good as listed, and don't forget we don't know whom the Sox would add in trading Crede, Lee, Konerko, etc. The team as listed subtracts all those players but only adds free agents.

The team still has enough offense with Thomas, Everett, Rowand, Renteria and Koskie. The starting pitching would probably be the best in the league, if not all of baseball.

fusillirob1983
08-26-2004, 06:44 PM
I give a thumbs up to the suggestions of Pavano and Radke. I think they're attainable, but can someone explain how we'll be able to afford Renteria while still making improvements in other areas?

misty60481
08-26-2004, 06:47 PM
no Maggs, Lee, Konerko--ticket sales drop about half a mil..

Soxzilla
08-26-2004, 06:47 PM
Oh great, so we won't score any runs and we won't give up any runs.



.....Until the late innings when our stink **** of a bullpen has to keep us in the game.


Of what you said...

Pick up Pavano. Let magglio go. Keep konerko and Lee. Stick with crede for one more year, unless a geniune opportunity comes up. Nab Rentaria. Let valentin disappear. If escobar makes a dent, let everett slide, or if gload can keep up a .270-.280 average. Let Radke sign with tampa, praying to god minnesota gets whipped out in the divisional series.

Of course here are my priorities...

1 - Free agent starting pitcher
2 - Bullpen help (urbina?)
3 - replacement right fielder
4 - replacement third baseman
5 - replacement shortstop (Which we could than dump crede, or use uribe as super utility, either way thats a win win).

DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 06:47 PM
What we really should be focusing on is acquiring another starting pitcher, shoring up the bullpen and adding a SS with a high OBP or a 3B with a high OBP.

My plan adds not one but two excellent starting pitchers, shores up the bullpen by adding Garland, subtracting Jackson, and figures to have an improved Cotts and Adkins with another year's experience.

Renteria upgrades SS with one of the best in baseball, and Koskie is an upgrade over Crede.

The core of Maggs, Konerko, Lee and Valentin never won a pennant and is very expensive. My plan spends the bulk of the money on pitching and SS instead of corner fielders.

HomeFish
08-26-2004, 06:48 PM
There's more to it than that. First, the free agent must want to play here (few, if any, do) and, second, we must outbid other teams.

I don't expect the Sox to sign a signle FA worth talking about this early. Sorry, that's just reality.

DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 06:50 PM
I give a thumbs up to the suggestions of Pavano and Radke. I think they're attainable, but can someone explain how we'll be able to afford Renteria while still making improvements in other areas?

Because we lose the salaries of Maggs, Valentin, Lee, Konerko, Schoeneweis, Sandy, Politte, Jackson, etc.

MRKARNO
08-26-2004, 06:52 PM
Koskie is hitting .251 with 22 HR's and is a better ballplayer than Crede.

That bullpen is pretty darn good as listed, and don't forget we don't know whom the Sox would add in trading Crede, Lee, Konerko, etc. The team as listed subtracts all those players but only adds free agents.

The team still has enough offense with Thomas, Everett, Rowand, Renteria and Koskie. The starting pitching would probably be the best in the league, if not all of baseball.
Renteria: His average is pretty nice, but he simply does not have a lot of power and his OBP is only in the .330's, which is nothing special by any means. In my opinion, he's one of the most overrated players in baseball. We're better off just keeping Juan Uribe at short.

Koskie: His OBP numbers have been pretty good the past few years (.370ish), but his power this year is more of the exception rather than the rule. He's more of a bet for about 18-20 homers on the year.

The rotation: Would be excellent

The Bullpen: You are disillusioned if you think that bullpen would stack up to the better ones in the league. FIrst of all, you don't put Garland in the pen, you trade him first. Marte and Shingo would be pretty good, but Adkins? Has anyone actually been paying attention to his pathetic WHIP of 1.5? The 3.5 ERA is a sham and he's more of a 4.5 ERA reliever. Cotts I think can be decent, but only if he cuts down on the walks. I think he's a good candidate for long relief. I dont know what to do with Diaz, because I dont really see a good use for him unless we spend the time and convert him to a one inning guy. It would be very wise for this team to invest in Armando Benitez.

Offense: This is a sad team if we're starting the year with Escobar in right and Gload at first. A pair of players which have not to this point proven they should be major league starters.

Soxzilla
08-26-2004, 06:53 PM
My plan adds not one but two excellent starting pitchers, shores up the bullpen by adding Garland, subtracting Jackson, and figures to have an improved Cotts and Adkins with another year's experience.

Renteria upgrades SS with one of the best in baseball, and Koskie is an upgrade over Crede.

The core of Maggs, Konerko, Lee and Valentin never won a pennant and is very expensive. My plan spends the bulk of the money on pitching and SS instead of corner fielders.
When you play in a hitters park, you are going to want more of a balance then you are emphasizing in your initial post. Good pitchers like the ones we will have give up the long ball, we've already seen that with garcia.

And then your planning on using our existing bp? WITH garland? You think the mental midget is going to handle being demoted with open arms? HELL no, he'll want to get traded quicker than.....well, really quick. It's like scott schoeneweis all over again.

Hence why you go with this....

1 - Buehrle
2 - Garcia
3 - Pavano
4 - Contreras
5 - Garland

BP:

LRR - Jon Adkins
LLR - Scott Schoeneweis
RP/LP - Free Agent pick up
MRP - Cliff Politte
MRP - Neal Cotts
SU - Damaso Marte
CP - Shingo time

Hell, and that is still a pretty weak bullpen.

DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 06:55 PM
no Maggs, Lee, Konerko--ticket sales drop about half a mil..

Attendance was up this year without Maggs. Frank will be back, he's a draw. While Lee and Konerko are good players, people don't come out just to see them.

Ultimately, fans come out to see a winner, not individual players. When the Sox were winning this year, people came out in large numbers to see the WHITE SOX, not to see Lee or Konerko or anyone else.

If it were true that Lee and Konerko were such draws as you think, then the sox will continue to draw huge crowds for the remainder of this season, just to see Carlos and Paulie play.

Fans come out to see a winner, and the team I suggested would win the division.

MRKARNO
08-26-2004, 06:57 PM
LRR - Jon Adkins
LLR - Scott Schoeneweis
RP/LP - Free Agent pick up
MRP - Cliff Politte
MRP - Neal Cotts
SU - Damaso Marte
CP - Shingo time

Hell, and that is still a pretty weak bullpen.
I dont see why we need 2 long relievers. Cotts should be the one and only long reliever. Once again, Adkins is garbage. Schoenweis I dont think will be useful enough as a lefty specialist to be worth keeping around. Politte actually might be worth keeping, but only at the back end. I figure we need 2 free agents, one of really good quality and one of decent quality in order to shore up this pen.

DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 07:04 PM
And then your planning on using our existing bp? WITH garland? You think the mental midget is going to handle being demoted with open arms? HELL no, he'll want to get traded quicker than.....well, really quick. It's like scott schoeneweis all over again.



Fine, then trade Garland as well! We could probably get a pretty decent Reliever or two for Garland and Crede.

Again, let me stress that the team I've listed does not take into account anyone obtained in trading guys like Paulie, Carlos, Crede, Garland, etc. It only takes into account FA signings. I'm sure the young guys we could get in return for the names mentioned could include solid relievers or a young bat or two.

Soxzilla
08-26-2004, 07:09 PM
I dont see why we need 2 long relievers. Cotts should be the one and only long reliever. Once again, Adkins is garbage. Schoenweis I dont think will be useful enough as a lefty specialist to be worth keeping around. Politte actually might be worth keeping, but only at the back end. I figure we need 2 free agents, one of really good quality and one of decent quality in order to shore up this pen.
Sure, if we could pick up say, a BJ ryan and an urbina that would make this bullpen a freaking menace. Because I would keep schoeneweis as lefty long relief (Damaso goes to lefty specialist so urbina can set up or close). We could use adkins as mop up work and put cotts back down to AAA. I feel cotts could be a pretty valuable starter some day in the future, and I'd rather have him start in AAA than mop up a few innings here and there in the bigs.

Mohoney
08-26-2004, 08:01 PM
Fine, then trade Garland as well! We could probably get a pretty decent Reliever or two for Garland and Crede.

Again, let me stress that the team I've listed does not take into account anyone obtained in trading guys like Paulie, Carlos, Crede, Garland, etc. It only takes into account FA signings. I'm sure the young guys we could get in return for the names mentioned could include solid relievers or a young bat or two.

Garland and Cotts might get you Gil Meche. Instead of trading Paulie or Carlos Lee, how about we trade Garland? Let's finally call the Jon Garland era over and try to nab Gil Meche.

Then sign a free agent pitcher like Carl Pavano, Russ Ortiz, Odalis Perez, or Matt Morris to take the #3 spot and round out the rotation. Contreras pitches well under less pressure, and putting him in the 4th slot with 3 competent pitchers ahead of him could be just what he needs to really thrive and put up All-Star numbers with that nasty stuff.

This rotation would OWN the AL Central, even with Cleveland and Detroit's strong offenses.

Garcia
Buehrle
Free Agent
Contreras
Meche

Maybe the Cardinals have soured on Morris enough to allow us to nab him? Maybe we outbid the Braves for Russ Ortiz? Maybe the Dodgers can't afford Perez or the Marlins can't afford Pavano?

Bullpen-wise, I don't know what we should do. Do we keep Politte, Marte, and Shingo as setup guys and then try to get a closer, or do we keep Shingo as the closer and go after another setup guy? Either way, if we can get a viable 4th option, I can live with Adkins in long relief and Jeff Bajenaru taking Mike Jackson's spot.

I could live with this bullpen, providing my overhauled rotation gives me some solid IP totals and Jeff Bajenaru can shoulder some of the workload that Mike Jackson is failing to do:

Adkins
Bajenaru
Politte
LH Free Agent
Marte
Shingo

AnkleSox
08-26-2004, 09:08 PM
no Maggs, Lee, Konerko--ticket sales drop about half a mil..
Well for the first month fans may be pissed and decide not to pay for sox tickets, but with the suggested lineup, the sox should be a powerhouse in the central by mid-may, which will definitely influence people to go to games.

However, I do believe it would be smart to keep either Lee or Konerko, but not both.

DickAllen72
08-26-2004, 11:03 PM
Well for the first month fans may be pissed and decide not to pay for sox tickets, but with the suggested lineup, the sox should be a powerhouse in the central by mid-may, which will definitely influence people to go to games.

However, I do believe it would be smart to keep either Lee or Konerko, but not both.

I'd like to keep one of them too--even both of them! But I've created a very doable scenario whereby the Sox can sign Radke, Pavano, Renteria, and Koskie and still afford it.

Actually, if we can gamble on Uribe being a good everyday shortstop by next year, we could skip Renteria and keep Konerko or Lee for first base (I've heard some in the Sox organization think Lee would make a good first baseman).

I still think we should sign both Pavano AND Radke, and we definitely need to upgrade over Crede at 3B. Crede may yet be a star, but that just makes him valuable trade bait. He may need a change of scenery to realize his full potential.

balke
08-27-2004, 12:10 AM
I'd like to keep one of them too--even both of them! But I've created a very doable scenario whereby the Sox can sign Radke, Pavano, Renteria, and Koskie and still afford it.

Actually, if we can gamble on Uribe being a good everyday shortstop by next year, we could skip Renteria and keep Konerko or Lee for first base (I've heard some in the Sox organization think Lee would make a good first baseman).

I still think we should sign both Pavano AND Radke, and we definitely need to upgrade over Crede at 3B. Crede may yet be a star, but that just makes him valuable trade bait. He may need a change of scenery to realize his full potential.
I want Radke on this team so bad. Take Radke, keep everyone, add 2 relievers and a cup of warm water, you got a 85-90 mil WS appearance.

I have said in the past Renteria is doable, because early this season Cards announcers mentioned him probably being gone. Even ESPN has mentioned it mid-season. But if they get WS $$$ I don't see why they wouldn't try their hardest to bring back thier whole team. My roommates a die hard cards fan, thinks they'll keep what they got.

OurBitchinMinny
08-27-2004, 04:29 AM
Koskie is hitting .251 with 22 HR's and is a better ballplayer than Crede.

That bullpen is pretty darn good as listed, and don't forget we don't know whom the Sox would add in trading Crede, Lee, Konerko, etc. The team as listed subtracts all those players but only adds free agents.

The team still has enough offense with Thomas, Everett, Rowand, Renteria and Koskie. The starting pitching would probably be the best in the league, if not all of baseball.
koskie has been worse than crede most of the year. He caught fire as the twins put the nails in the coffin the past wekk and a half. Dont trade lee either. maybe konerko if you get a lot

OurBitchinMinny
08-27-2004, 04:30 AM
I want Radke on this team so bad. Take Radke, keep everyone, add 2 relievers and a cup of warm water, you got a 85-90 mil WS appearance.

I have said in the past Renteria is doable, because early this season Cards announcers mentioned him probably being gone. Even ESPN has mentioned it mid-season. But if they get WS $$$ I don't see why they wouldn't try their hardest to bring back thier whole team. My roommates a die hard cards fan, thinks they'll keep what they got.
radke is ok, but he can be like buerhle. cy young one night and get hammered the next outing. Id rather have pavano, clement, maybe that pedro guy. The sox should gear up to make a run at santana whenver he is FA. No way the twins will be able to afford him

santo=dorf
08-27-2004, 04:50 PM
Fine, then trade Garland as well! We could probably get a pretty decent Reliever or two for Garland and Crede.
I wouldn't mind seeing Garland go to Pittsburgh to pitch with Cy Young, and Cy Young Jr. :fogg :kipper I would like to see any combination of Mackowiak (http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=406670), Meadows, or Mike Gonzalez.

Flight #24
08-27-2004, 06:04 PM
Our team then shapes up like this:
1B Gload
2B Harris
SS Renteria
3B Koskie
LF Everett
CF Rowand
RF Escobar
C Davis
DH Thomas

Cool. Now we get to score like 2 runs/game. At least our pitching staff will only give up 3.......

Seriously - you honestly think that a lineup with Gload, Harris, Koskie, & Escobar as regulars is going to accomplish anything but records for lowest scoring in MLB history?

We'd miss the bats of Maggs, Lee and Konerko, but we'd be rid of that core of players that always underachieves, and we would add more speed and better infield defense.

This is all very affordable and can be realistically done. It's time for a change.
Well, as long as we break up the "underachieving core"........it's bound to be good, even if we add some crappy players as regulars!!!

DickAllen72
08-27-2004, 06:10 PM
Well, as long as we break up the "underachieving core"........it's bound to be good, even if we add some crappy players as regulars!!!

Heavy sigh. The roster I listed doesn't include anyone we could get by trading Konerko, Lee, Crede, etc. Even at that, it's a better team than we have right now.

Renteria, Koskie, Pavano and Radke are not crappy players.