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View Full Version : The state of the lineup


kittle42
08-26-2004, 09:43 AM
Why did anyone think the Sox had a legit chance to do anything once Frank and Magglio were out? The lineup we are fielding now is basically the same one we threw out there in the NL parks this year (where at least we had "PH - K" Thomas off the bench) with the exception of Everett at DH. We were 2-7 at those games. I remember talking to Hangar at the Sunday Cubs game about how the Sox desperately needed Ordonez back because the lineup they threw out there - with Lee and Konerko the only real threats - wasn't gonna win us anything, and how thankful I was that, despite the sweep, this was our LAST game with such a crappy lineup. Little did I know...

TornLabrum
08-26-2004, 10:41 AM
Why did anyone think the Sox had a legit chance to do anything once Frank and Magglio were out? The lineup we are fielding now is basically the same one we threw out there in the NL parks this year (where at least we had "PH - K" Thomas off the bench) with the exception of Everett at DH. We were 2-7 at those games. I remember talking to Hangar at the Sunday Cubs game about how the Sox desperately needed Ordonez back because the lineup they threw out there - with Lee and Konerko the only real threats - wasn't gonna win us anything, and how thankful I was that, despite the sweep, this was our LAST game with such a crappy lineup. Little did I know...
Everyone has missed the key reason we've done so poorly. It's because Frank wouldn't act as a decoy right before he went on the DL.

Hangar18
08-26-2004, 10:43 AM
Why did anyone think the Sox had a legit chance to do anything once Frank and Magglio were out? The lineup we are fielding now is basically the same one we threw out there in the NL parks this year (where at least we had "PH - K" Thomas off the bench) with the exception of Everett at DH. We were 2-7 at those games. I remember talking to Hangar at the Sunday Cubs game about how the Sox desperately needed Ordonez back because the lineup they threw out there - with Lee and Konerko the only real threats - wasn't gonna win us anything, and how thankful I was that, despite the sweep, this was our LAST game with such a crappy lineup. Little did I know...
After that last game, a crystal ball appeared before me, and somehow knew that Maggs wouldnt be himself for at least another couple of weeks, and combined with Horrible Gload OF defense, Spotty Timo hitting, Slumping Willie, Lack of Depth in BullPen (most noticable, noting the Numerous games we "almost" came back to win games) and the 2004 of a Joe Crede, was the end of our season. Frank and Maggs are Huge to this team, everything else, we were being Held together by Smoke, Mirrors & Duct Tape. We were DUE for Exposure had any key cogs gone down, as we DIDNT PAY to Pick Up/Retain any depth. Shame on you Jerry for duping the most loyal fans in baseball, whitesox fans, like this. Shame on You for thinking for the 20th season in a row, you could CheapSkate your way to the playoffs, simply because the Cub-based Media kept telling you that your division was "Weak" and we'd win it Sleepwalking. Trib gotcha again

JRIG
08-26-2004, 12:15 PM
Everyone has missed the key reason we've done so poorly. It's because Frank wouldn't act as a decoy right before he went on the DL.
The good news is Roberto Alomar is acting as a decoy of a hitter every time he strides to the plate. Brilliant, Kenny!

Flight #24
08-26-2004, 12:28 PM
The good news is Roberto Alomar is acting as a decoy of a hitter every time he strides to the plate. Brilliant, Kenny!
Can we stop with the Alomar-bashing of KW? He gave up little to nothing for him on a flier and it didn't pan out. No risk, no reward scenario. About the only legitimate complaint is that Robbie's taking away ABs from Willie Harris. And I can't see that as that serious a problem.

Seems to me that all the bashing for picking Robbie up is because we didn't get anyone BETTER. Forget that there wasn't anyone better out there, or that the deasl that were set up were nixed by players with no-trades.

Or just forget all that and twist any and all moves as reasons to bash KW regardless of the facts.

JRIG
08-26-2004, 12:33 PM
Can we stop with the Alomar-bashing of KW? He gave up little to nothing for him on a flier and it didn't pan out. No risk, no reward scenario. About the only legitimate complaint is that Robbie's taking away ABs from Willie Harris. And I can't see that as that serious a problem.

Seems to me that all the bashing for picking Robbie up is because we didn't get anyone BETTER. Forget that there wasn't anyone better out there, or that the deasl that were set up were nixed by players with no-trades.

Or just forget all that and twist any and all moves as reasons to bash KW regardless of the facts.
The bashing is because KW has no plan. How does aquiring a washed-up Roberto Alomar fit into any plan this organization could have. Identifying for the rest of the season whether Willie Harris is a capable 2nd baseman? That's a plan. Picking up a guy who'll be here next here to actually start at 2B? That's a plan. Trading for Roberto Alomar, who has had 50 good at bats since 2001 and was horrible with this team last season when we didn't win and can't help us this year is not a plan.

That's the complaint.

Flight #24
08-26-2004, 01:12 PM
The bashing is because KW has no plan. How does aquiring a washed-up Roberto Alomar fit into any plan this organization could have. Identifying for the rest of the season whether Willie Harris is a capable 2nd baseman? That's a plan. Picking up a guy who'll be here next here to actually start at 2B? That's a plan. Trading for Roberto Alomar, who has had 50 good at bats since 2001 and was horrible with this team last season when we didn't win and can't help us this year is not a plan.

That's the complaint.
The plan was - "take a shot and see if 'Berto can provide a bit of a spark to get the offense moving NOW and try to keep us in the race". It's not that complicated. He was brought in to move runners along and play decent D - things that were sorely lacking and things that Willie wasn't able to do. The cost was basically 0, and it had the possibility of upside.

The plan was not "give up in early August and start focusing on 2005". That plan would have meant doing tings like you suggest above.

Deadguy
08-26-2004, 01:19 PM
Everyone has missed the key reason we've done so poorly. It's because Frank wouldn't act as a decoy right before he went on the DL.
Don't forget the fact that this cancer hired non-union laborers to help construct his mansion back in 1995. That little episode has had a direct negative correlation on the lack of effort from Roberto Alomar, the steady decline of Joe Crede, and the gigantic hole in Joe Borchard's bat.

LincolnSquareOz
08-26-2004, 01:50 PM
Bottom line: it is impossible for this current line-up to make the adjustment to small-ball on the fly and in the middle of the season. It also hasn't helped that Uribe came back down to earth so swiftly, Crede has been a major underachiever, and Valentin's K-rate has continued to balloon. The Roberto Alomar situation makes no sense. You're telling me that his being here is helping Willie Harris? Harris has been hitting well below .200 since Robbie came back. Forced to play a guy like Borchard right now doesn't do much for the team right now either.

Positives: Rowand, Ben Davis finally hitting on occasion, and C. Lee further establishing himself as legit star-caliber player. No complaints about Paulie. He'd be well over 100 ribbies had our full complement stayed intact.

kittle42
08-26-2004, 01:58 PM
No complaints about Paulie. He'd be well over 100 ribbies had our full complement stayed intact.
Everyone here seems foolishly ready to trade him with the false thought that Thomas would play first.

Deadguy
08-26-2004, 02:02 PM
Everyone here seems foolishly ready to trade him with the false thought that Thomas would play first.
Not really. They just want to move him while he is at his peak in trade value, adn they want to do it before he falls into a deep coma for a month that makes us long for the good old days of Brian Daubach patrolling 1B.

kittle42
08-26-2004, 02:05 PM
Not really. They just want to move him while he is at his peak in trade value, adn they want to do it before he falls into a deep coma for a month that makes us long for the good old days of Brian Daubach patrolling 1B.
Not many months left for that to happen. My guess is it won't. I refuse to trade Konerko because he had one horrible half-season last year. He is a solid player who, despite his tendency to hit into DPs and his complete lack of any speed, is a decent defensive 1B, a team guy, a STRONG team guy, a guy who draws walks and has a good BB/K ratio, and our leading power man (right now).

WhiteSoxRule2500
08-26-2004, 02:06 PM
hey I think the lineup cold improve, but The way it is now isn't all that bad. We have some solid players, and I'm sure it will only go up!!

kittle42
08-26-2004, 02:18 PM
hey I think the lineup cold improve, but The way it is now isn't all that bad.
WHAT?????!!!!!!!

:reinsy
"You are a good Sox fan, WhiteSoxRule2500. Be fruitful and multiply."

Deadguy
08-26-2004, 02:20 PM
N one horrible half-season last year. "One horrible half-season last year". That doesn't even begin to justify how laughably pathetic Konerko was in the first three months of last season. 3 homeruns and a .185 BA from a 1B is absolutely unexcusable, especially since that apparent degenerative hip condition was obviously a false excuse for this scumbag falling flat on his face. We're talking about a guy who had 4 hits in an entire month in June of 2003 and went over a month without an extra base hit. That's fine if you are a rookie making the league minimum, but Konerko was signed to a huge contract in order to be a major contributor to this team, as well as a leader, and he fell flat on his face.

How can you guarantee that that won't happen again? What makes you think that what he is doing now isn't a fluke? He's taken advantage of the fact that the Cell has become the Coors Field of the AL, and other GMs will foolishly over pay for his services, making him the ideal person to get rid of.

kittle42
08-26-2004, 03:07 PM
How can you guarantee that that won't happen again? What makes you think that what he is doing now isn't a fluke? He's taken advantage of the fact that the Cell has become the Coors Field of the AL, and other GMs will foolishly over pay for his services, making him the ideal person to get rid of.
It certainly seems to me, given his career numbers, that the first half of 2003 was the fluke.

Jamieboy
08-27-2004, 04:17 PM
Possibly true, Konerko is hitting .246 with a .306OBP and a .418SLG on the road. The last time Paulie was decent on the road was 2002 when hit over .300 and slugged .516, he hit better on the road that season than at home. Konerko is the one guy on the team I wouldn't mind moving, he makes too much for a position we could probably fill with a cheaper power hitter. What hitter that would be I don't know.