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View Full Version : What would it take to get Juan Pierre?


CWWTWS1
08-25-2004, 11:48 PM
I love this guy! He is such a force at the top of the order and impacts the game like very few can once he gets on. He has one year left on his deal and is going to be looking at a pretty decent buck after his contract is up. I'm not so sure he couldn't be had during the winter meetings.


Ozzie Guillen loves this kid as well. I suggested Rowand, or Pierre in a thread two weeks ago and it it got mixed reviews. Now I'm advocating trading them even up.

manuelsucks
08-25-2004, 11:55 PM
I just don't think that is a good idea. Rowand seems to be developing really nice now and is starting to make contact. To trade away that much talent for Pierre just doesn't make sense now. The only thing I see Pierre brings over Rowand is pure raw speed otherwise I like Rowand. Don't get me wrong Pierre is outstanding player.

JB98
08-26-2004, 12:08 AM
I love this guy! He is such a force at the top of the order and impacts the game like very few can once he gets on. He has one year left on his deal and is going to be looking at a pretty decent buck after his contract is up. I'm not so sure he couldn't be had during the winter meetings.


Ozzie Guillen loves this kid as well. I suggested Rowand, or Pierre in a thread two weeks ago and it it got mixed reviews. Now I'm advocating trading them even up.

Don't like that at all. Don't get me wrong, I like Pierre. But I'd rather have Rowand. Break them down by the five tools:

Pierre
Hit for average: Yes
Hit for power: Not at all
Speed: Extraordinary
Fields his position: Yes
Throwing arm: Weak

Rowand
Hit for average: Yes
Hit for power: Yes
Speed: Yes
Fields his position: Yes
Throwing arm: Strong

Rowand has all five tools. Pierre is great in one area, good in two others and weak in two. I wouldn't mind getting Pierre and moving Rowand to RF, but I would not acquire Pierre at the expense of Rowand.

MRKARNO
08-26-2004, 12:08 AM
Aaron Rowand is already more valuable than Juan Pierre would be.

Aidan
08-26-2004, 12:12 AM
How about Konerko and Borchard for Juan Pierre and A.J. Burnett? Then move Rowand to RF and have Pierre in CF. Pierre leads off and Rowand can hit second. If they don't like Paulie's big contract, we could pick up some of it.

CF Pierre
RF Rowand
1B Thomas
LF Lee
DH Everett
SS Uribe
C Davis
3B Crede
2B Harris

Garcia
Buehrle
Contreras
Burnett
Garland

CWWTWS1
08-26-2004, 12:13 AM
What about the fact that this kid will turn a single into a double, or triple? BBT showed Pierre steal second and third base in the first inning and scored on a grounder to short. If you guys get a chance to watch BBT in 5 minutes, I suggest watching Pierre on those steals.

Speed kills.

Aidan
08-26-2004, 12:16 AM
What about the fact that this kid will turn a single into a double, or triple? BBT showed Pierre steal second and third base in the first inning and scored on a grounder to short. If you guys get a chance to watch BBT in 5 minutes, I suggest watching Pierre on those steals.

Speed kills.I agree. I would also love for us to trade for him. He was pretty impressive in the playoffs last year, especially against the Flubs. :wink: The guy can get on base at the top of the order. That's exactly what we don't have and desperately need.

Randar68
08-26-2004, 12:22 AM
How about Konerko and Borchard for Juan Pierre and A.J. Burnett? Then move Rowand to RF and have Pierre in CF. Pierre leads off and Rowand can hit second. If they don't like Paulie's big contract, we could pick up some of it.

CF Pierre
RF Rowand
1B Thomas
LF Lee
DH Everett
SS Uribe
C Davis
3B Crede
2B Harris

Garcia
Buehrle
Contreras
Burnett
GarlandI like the idea, although who knows how probable anything is at this point. Pierre is exactly what this team needs. Can we throw in Carl too? Who plays first?

JB98
08-26-2004, 12:29 AM
What about the fact that this kid will turn a single into a double, or triple? BBT showed Pierre steal second and third base in the first inning and scored on a grounder to short. If you guys get a chance to watch BBT in 5 minutes, I suggest watching Pierre on those steals.

Speed kills.

Oh, no question. But I'm just saying why would we get rid of Rowand to get Pierre? Aaron is one of the few guys currently on our roster who hits for a high average, and he's one of the few guys we've got with above-average wheels. He's one of the last guys we should trade.

Someone threw out the idea of trading Borchard. Well, he's going to have to play a helluva lot better down the stretch for us to get any return on him whatsoever. Right now, his trade value is nil.

CWWTWS1
08-26-2004, 12:29 AM
One play that never gets talked about with regards to the 2003 NLCS was the one out double by Pierre to get the 8 run inning started. If Pierre does not get on there, it's two and nobody on and that inning never happens.

Aidan
08-26-2004, 12:35 AM
I like the idea, although who knows how probable anything is at this point. Pierre is exactly what this team needs. Can we throw in Carl too? Who plays first?Is Scott Hatteberg a free agent after this season? I think he's playing on a $2.3 million dollar option this season. He would be a good guy to sign if he is. Then they could throw in Carl as well.

Konerko + Everett + Borchard FOR Pierre + Burnett with us picking up some of Konerko's contract if needed. Then we would have alot better "small-ball" lineup with guys that can actually get on base.

CF Pierre
RF Rowand
DH Thomas
LF Lee
1B Hatteberg
SS Uribe
3B Crede
C Davis
2B Harris

It would be a solid 1-5 but 6-9 would be pretty weak.

batmanZoSo
08-26-2004, 12:38 AM
I love this guy! He is such a force at the top of the order and impacts the game like very few can once he gets on. He has one year left on his deal and is going to be looking at a pretty decent buck after his contract is up. I'm not so sure he couldn't be had during the winter meetings.


Ozzie Guillen loves this kid as well. I suggested Rowand, or Pierre in a thread two weeks ago and it it got mixed reviews. Now I'm advocating trading them even up.
My idea was to trade Lee, using the money for pitching, acquiring Pierre in a trade and moving Rowand to left. I wouldn't trade one for the other considering how Rowand's coming along with the bat and at his salary. A guy like him is a huge commodity for a mid market team. Rowand would be an excellent left fielder and probably the best arm at that position. He's almost a decent center fielder now, imagine what he could do in left. You make up some of the runs you lose with Lee by those two shagging would-be knocks and you make up a lot more by having a great leadoff man. All the while you save money.

CWWTWS1
08-26-2004, 12:40 AM
But I'm just saying why would we get rid of Rowand to get Pierre?
Well, as you know, you must give to get. Another thing that Pierre does that Rowand could not do if he spent the entire off season trying is bunt. With Pierre, that bunt turns into a single and it's off to the races.

Jjav829
08-26-2004, 01:00 AM
I like the idea of getting Pierre, but I'm not sure I'd give up Rowand to do it. Rowand's been getting on base at a better clip than Pierre. Pierre's been caught stealing a lot this year. He's only stealing bases at a 66% rate. That really leaves him out of the elite base stealer category. He'd be a nice fit for this time. We could use a Juan Pierre type player, but I'm not sure I'd do it for Rowand.

Aidan
08-26-2004, 01:15 AM
I like the idea of getting Pierre, but I'm not sure I'd give up Rowand to do it. Rowand's been getting on base at a better clip than Pierre. Pierre's been caught stealing a lot this year. He's only stealing bases at a 66% rate. That really leaves him out of the elite base stealer category. He'd be a nice fit for this time. We could use a Juan Pierre type player, but I'm not sure I'd do it for Rowand.I wouldn't want to trade Rowand either. That's why I say we trade Konerko for Pierre. The Marlins traded away Hee Seop Choi and are now starting Damion Easley and Jeff Conine at 1B. They will need a 1B next season. Both Conine (38) and Easley (34) are as old as dirt and aren't even really first basemen. Konerko would give them the 1B they need and add some much needed power to their lineup. Juan Pierre would give us the leadoff hitter we desperately need. Move Rowand to RF and we are set at the #1 and #2 spot in our lineup.

nodiggity59
08-26-2004, 01:29 AM
Sorry for being skeptical, but why would the Marlins move Pierre, who is eminently more valuable than Paulie, for a one year rental?

Whoever we dealt, it would have to work this way: we deal Paulie to a contender for a good, young MLB ready player or two (1 of them a 1B, one a CF), and possibly add one of our own young players.

The Marlins won't trade Pierre unless it helps LONG TERM in the outfield or 1B. Otherwise, they're better off standing pat.

Jjav829
08-26-2004, 01:29 AM
I wouldn't want to trade Rowand either. That's why I say we trade Konerko for Pierre. The Marlins traded away Hee Seop Choi and are now starting Damion Easley and Jeff Conine at 1B. They will need a 1B next season. Both Conine (38) and Easley (34) are as old as dirt and aren't even really first basemen. Konerko would give them the 1B they need and add some much needed power to their lineup. Juan Pierre would give us the leadoff hitter we desperately need. Move Rowand to RF and we are set at the #1 and #2 spot in our lineup.
Actually the Marlins may have their 1B of the future on their roster right now if the form of Miguel Cabrera. They are going to work with him at 1B (might have started already) and there's a chance that he will make the jump for next season. If not, who knows, they might give Stokes a shot to see if he can make himself into something other than an all or nothing guy. I don't think they'd have any interest in Konerko though.

Aidan
08-26-2004, 01:34 AM
Sorry for being skeptical, but why would the Marlins move Pierre, who is eminently more valuable than Paulie, for a one year rental?

Whoever we dealt, it would have to work this way: we deal Paulie to a contender for a good, young MLB ready player or two (1 of them a 1B, one a CF), and possibly add one of our own young players.

The Marlins won't trade Pierre unless it helps LONG TERM in the outfield or 1B. Otherwise, they're better off standing pat.Pierre is a free agent after next season just like Paulie. That's why we throw in Borchard. :tongue:

fquaye149
08-26-2004, 02:06 AM
How about Konerko and Borchard for Juan Pierre and A.J. Burnett? Then move Rowand to RF and have Pierre in CF. Pierre leads off and Rowand can hit second. If they don't like Paulie's big contract, we could pick up some of it.

CF Pierre
RF Rowand
1B Thomas
LF Lee
DH Everett
SS Uribe
C Davis
3B Crede
2B Harris

Garcia
Buehrle
Contreras
Burnett
Garland
i know the marlin's gm is horrendous, but this is a trade that should get anyone fired. . .

burnett and pierre for a first baseman who doesn't put up above average for first baseman numbers with a 12 million dollar salary in a walk year and a should have been mid 20's right fielder who has neve hit above .250 in the majors for a catalyst of a centerfielder and a pitcher who was peaking in the hundreds in his last start?


sounds like a steal to the florida fans i bet.

Aidan
08-26-2004, 02:11 AM
i know the marlin's gm is horrendous, but this is a trade that should get anyone fired. . .

burnett and pierre for a first baseman who doesn't put up above average for first baseman numbers with a 12 million dollar salary in a walk year and a should have been mid 20's right fielder who has neve hit above .250 in the majors for a catalyst of a centerfielder and a pitcher who was peaking in the hundreds in his last start?


sounds like a steal to the florida fans i bet.You don't even know what you're talking about. Where did you get the idea that Konerko is going to make $12 million dollars next season?

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/5357/Konerko.jpg

Mike Sweeney's contract is a hell of alot worse that Konerko's and there were teams interested in trading for him this season.

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/447/Sweeney.jpg

Paul Konerko (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=117244)
.276 AVG
.361 OBP
31 HR
85 RBI

Those aren't "above average numbers" for a first baseman? What are you smoking? Those are a #3 or #4 hitter's numbers in many lineups. The Marlins really don't need Juan Pierre as much as they need another power bat. Luis Castillo (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5676) can lead off for them and steal bases.

SOXSINCE'70
08-26-2004, 08:11 AM
What would it take to get Juan Pierre???


A FRIGGIN' MIRACLE!!!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

samram
08-26-2004, 08:21 AM
You don't even know what you're talking about. Where did you get the idea that Konerko is going to make $12 million dollars next season?

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/5357/Konerko.jpg

Mike Sweeney's contract is a hell of alot worse that Konerko's and there were teams interested in trading for him this season.

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/447/Sweeney.jpg

Paul Konerko (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=117244)
.276 AVG
.361 OBP
31 HR
85 RBI

Those aren't "above average numbers" for a first baseman? What are you smoking? Those are a #3 or #4 hitter's numbers in many lineups. The Marlins really don't need Juan Pierre as much as they need another power bat. Luis Castillo (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5676) can lead off for them and steal bases.
I like the idea of Pierre, but I don't know if the Marlins want Castillo leading off- he's been hitting seventh lately, partly because LoDuca is there, and partly because he has been very streaky. Not to mention he only has 15 SB. I also wouldn't trade Rowand for Pierre- I'm not sure the Sox and Marlins have a good fit.

fquaye149
08-26-2004, 10:01 AM
You don't even know what you're talking about. Where did you get the idea that Konerko is going to make $12 million dollars next season?

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/5357/Konerko.jpg

Mike Sweeney's contract is a hell of alot worse that Konerko's and there were teams interested in trading for him this season.

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/447/Sweeney.jpg

Paul Konerko (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=117244)
.276 AVG
.361 OBP
31 HR
85 RBI

Those aren't "above average numbers" for a first baseman? What are you smoking? Those are a #3 or #4 hitter's numbers in many lineups. The Marlins really don't need Juan Pierre as much as they need another power bat. Luis Castillo (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5676) can lead off for them and steal bases. a.) i exaggerated at 12 million. my mistake

b.) because SOME teams were interested in SWEENEY doesn't mean THE MARLINS are interested in KONERKO. Think about whether florida is looking to add or cut payroll.

c.)you just put up the following numbers in a career year: projects to about .279-40-100

You're telling me those numbers are above average for 1B? Maybe a little above average, but not by a ton, especially the BA and RBI's. Meanwhile. . .this is quite obviously a career year. . .a GM doesn't have to look back much farther to see numbers quite lower. . .and if he does look back much farther he'd probably guess paulie to be about .280-35-100 which is really pretty average FOR A FIRST BASEMAN.


Meanwhile, you don't even address the idea of borchard for burnett. . .which seems to me to be the pipe dream to end all.

Flight #24
08-26-2004, 01:05 PM
i know the marlin's gm is horrendous, but this is a trade that should get anyone fired. . .

burnett and pierre for a first baseman who doesn't put up above average for first baseman numbers with a 12 million dollar salary in a walk year and a should have been mid 20's right fielder who has neve hit above .250 in the majors for a catalyst of a centerfielder and a pitcher who was peaking in the hundreds in his last start?


FWIW, Konerko currently ranks 9th in MLB in OPS, which is a lot better stat than R or RBI. He's ahead of Sweeney, who was supposedly in demand. He'll also be making like 8mil and in his walk year, so I would think he'd have solid value to offer to a team as a very good offensive contributor with a slightly high salary but no long-term commitment.

As for Borchard, it all depends on how other teams rate his tools v. his performance to date. He's got a very low # of ABs, so I could see his performance to date being discounted, depending on how the opposing GM evaluates guys. There are a ton of players who started out terribly and then ended up as very good players (just like there are a ton who stayed terrible).

The problems with this deal are 1)Marlins are moving Cabrera to 1B, making Konerko pointless, and 2)Until/unless they resign Pavano, They're holding on to Burnett.

misty60481
08-26-2004, 02:00 PM
Do we have anyone to replace Konerko and put up even similar no.s???

HebrewHammer
08-26-2004, 02:07 PM
:mckay
"Well, if its a centerfielder you're looking for...."

nodiggity59
08-26-2004, 02:44 PM
I think Carl Crawford is a better fit, deal wise, for us. He's coming into his arbitration years and the Rays have only a $23mil dollar payroll. If we can dump Konerko for prospects plus offer Crede and Diaz or something, they could move Huff to 1B and we could be in business.

kittle42
08-26-2004, 03:13 PM
I think Carl Crawford is a better fit, deal wise, for us. He's coming into his arbitration years and the Rays have only a $23mil dollar payroll. If we can dump Konerko for prospects plus offer Crede and Diaz or something, they could move Huff to 1B and we could be in business.
That's ludicrous. The Rays have no reason to trade Carl Crawford. He's coming into his arbitration years? He's Carl freakin' Crawford, not Carlos Beltran - he ain't gonna be that expensive for a team with an awesome young nucleus.

Jerome
08-26-2004, 06:14 PM
I think this whole thread should be in deep pink. Marlins aren't going to trade Burnett.

fquaye149
08-26-2004, 09:34 PM
FWIW, Konerko currently ranks 9th in MLB in OPS, which is a lot better stat than R or RBI. He's ahead of Sweeney, who was supposedly in demand. He'll also be making like 8mil and in his walk year, so I would think he'd have solid value to offer to a team as a very good offensive contributor with a slightly high salary but no long-term commitment.

As for Borchard, it all depends on how other teams rate his tools v. his performance to date. He's got a very low # of ABs, so I could see his performance to date being discounted, depending on how the opposing GM evaluates guys. There are a ton of players who started out terribly and then ended up as very good players (just like there are a ton who stayed terrible).

The problems with this deal are 1)Marlins are moving Cabrera to 1B, making Konerko pointless, and 2)Until/unless they resign Pavano, They're holding on to Burnett.
I'm not arguing against konerko as a player. . .I'm just saying a team w/ a power hitting first baseman like the marlins (cabrera or conine) looking to cut cost doesn't need to add significant payroll for someone who isn't a superstar. . .and in a normal year isn't significantly above average. . .not to mention one going into a walk year.