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Lip Man 1
08-24-2004, 12:04 PM
Quotes Of The Year 8/24

Jose Valentin to Joe Cowley / Daily Southtown:

"I think it's a lack of ... the effort has always been there. We've got skills. But to go out there and put it all together, take everything you need to win a baseball game and put it together, it isn't happening. It's about just going out there as a team and wanting it. I'm not saying we're selfish, but we're missing something."

Valentin on the Twins:

"It's not talent, they just know how to play the game. Not only that, they know what they have to do to win games. They do anything they can to win the game. When you do the little things and everyone is doing that all together, it comes around. You can win a lot of games doing the little things as a team. Year round, we don't do that, including myself. We don't bunt guys over, we're not moving the runners, we're not getting runners home from second base. That's why we're not a successful team so far."

Ozzie Guillen to Joe Cowley / Daily Southtown:

"For some reason, this team (when you look at it) in October and November, everybody had good years (statistically), maybe one or a couple of guys didn't have good years. The reason (the Sox aren't in the postseason) is they didn't execute moving the guy over, drive the guy in, make the right pitch, throw to the right bases. Basically, baseball, they're missing.

That's also why Guillen again warned that the Sox's roster could have a very different look next season.

"We're going to sit down right now and talk about what we can do to get there and fight all the way to the end," he said. "After we continue to fight, we have to see what we have to do next year."

Lip

Fungo
08-24-2004, 12:18 PM
"OzzieBall", "SmallBall", it's all a farce. It's called executing fundamental baseball. Bunting runners over, hitting behind a runner with less than 2 outs, hitting the cut-off man, throwing to the right base is all part of it. Konerko & Rowand are the only 2 players on this team that I see making an effort to hit behind runners with less than 2 outs. No one else on the team would do so without being told to. In my eyes, it's a team filled with selfish players and not enough fundamentally sound "baseball" players. This team is now as lifeless as it was with Manuel in charge, just going through the motions.

hold2dibber
08-24-2004, 12:41 PM
"OzzieBall", "SmallBall", it's all a farce. It's called executing fundamental baseball. Bunting runners over, hitting behind a runner with less than 2 outs, hitting the cut-off man, throwing to the right base is all part of it. Konerko & Rowand are the only 2 players on this team that I see making an effort to hit behind runners with less than 2 outs. No one else on the team would do so without being told to. In my eyes, it's a team filled with selfish players and not enough fundamentally sound "baseball" players. This team is now as lifeless as it was with Manuel in charge, just going through the motions.
I was hoping Ozzie could make a difference, but the fact is that this group of players simply doesn't have the fortitude, the attitude or the desire to win. The character/personality of the team has to be drastically altered this off season. No one should be untouchable, but at the very least I expect to see at least two, and most likely three, of the big guns (Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko, Valentin) gone. I actually like those players and each can put up good numbers and be a productive player, but they simply don't work together as the core of this line-up.

TornLabrum
08-24-2004, 02:39 PM
I was hoping Ozzie could make a difference, but the fact is that this group of players simply doesn't have the fortitude, the attitude or the desire to win.
Especially after losing Thomas and Ordonez!

Flight #24
08-24-2004, 02:44 PM
I was hoping Ozzie could make a difference, but the fact is that this group of players simply doesn't have the fortitude, the attitude or the desire to win. The character/personality of the team has to be drastically altered this off season. No one should be untouchable, but at the very least I expect to see at least two, and most likely three, of the big guns (Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko, Valentin) gone. I actually like those players and each can put up good numbers and be a productive player, but they simply don't work together as the core of this line-up.
And we know this because we've seen that core function under Ozzie? Or because they didn't function under Manuel? (Not that anything really did function under JM)

Kilroy
08-24-2004, 02:48 PM
I agree, but it wasn't lack of trying to execute, it was lack of actually getting it done. If they actually got half the bunts down they tried to get down, or half the fly balls that ended up being pop-ups on the infield, we'd be talking about a very different Sox team.

The thing that so maddening about it all is these things were done in April and May. They got bunts down, they got sac flys and they got 2-out hits. Remember when they were 12-1 in one run games?

Given that they did those things early on, its hard to blame one thing or one person now that they don't succeed.

Flight #24
08-24-2004, 02:52 PM
I agree, but it wasn't lack of trying to execute, it was lack of actually getting it done. If they actually got half the bunts down they tried to get down, or half the fly balls that ended up being pop-ups on the infield, we'd be talking about a very different Sox team.

The thing that so maddening about it all is these things were done in April and May. They got bunts down, they got sac flys and they got 2-out hits. Remember when they were 12-1 in one run games?

Given that they did those things early on, its hard to blame one thing or one person now that they don't succeed.
You can't transform a team completely in 1 spring training. Early on, the Sox were able to execute occasionally, much like they are doing now. The difference was that it wasn't necessary for them to do that all the time because they had Franlk and/or Maggs. Now, they can't score unless the execute, so the fact that they're only able to do it some of the time is much more obvious and costly.

This team still has some of the failings of last year from an execution standpoint, but it's improved. I'd expect it to be improved again next year, and combine taht with the return of Frank and I think we'll be fine without a major overhaul.

hold2dibber
08-24-2004, 03:38 PM
And we know this because we've seen that core function under Ozzie? Or because they didn't function under Manuel? (Not that anything really did function under JM)
Both.

RKMeibalane
08-24-2004, 04:10 PM
I was hoping Ozzie could make a difference, but the fact is that this group of players simply doesn't have the fortitude, the attitude or the desire to win. The character/personality of the team has to be drastically altered this off season. No one should be untouchable, but at the very least I expect to see at least two, and most likely three, of the big guns (Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko, Valentin) gone. I actually like those players and each can put up good numbers and be a productive player, but they simply don't work together as the core of this line-up.
Well, Frank Thomas will be back regardless of what happens to rest of the roster. He has a player option for next season, and he has already said that he plans to use it. It is likely that Konerko or Valentin may be moved. Uribe has played well enough that he deserves to get the chance to play every day. Perhaps the Sox should consider giving him the majority of the playing time at short for the remainder of the season.

Jurr
08-25-2004, 11:29 AM
Yeah...that's it...no heart. That's why when Magglio and Frank were on the roster, we were leading the world in come from behind wins. That's what the good teams that execute do. When the entire team was intact and not crippled, it was a different mindset. The team believed it could win and did so. When Magglio came back off the DL, the team got that belief again and was very hot. Then he went down, and the problems occurred. There's something to be said about confidence.

Flight #24
08-25-2004, 11:34 AM
Both.
With both those guys in the lineup, we were leading or close to leading the world in runs scored (and close wins).

So your argument is that because those guys failed last year, despite improvements by Konerko & Rowand, they were bound to fail this year?