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View Full Version : Worst trade of the season?


samram
08-24-2004, 10:31 AM
So far, the worst trade may have been the LoDuca and Mota to Florida for Penny and Encarnacion made by Mr. Moneyball, Jr., Paul DePodesta. The Dodgers lead is shrinking and Eric Gagne (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBqdjIzNzFqBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwNl Y2w-?slug=cnnsi-gagnesgaffes&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns) is suddenly getting hit around like he hasn't in two and a half years. He's had to throw more innings to make up for the loss of Mota and the complete ineffectiveness of Darren Dreifort, and gave up the go-ahead run in three straight games last week. Not to mention that Brent Mayne is nowhere near the player LoDuca is, and DePodesta got screwed when Randy Johnson wouldn't waive his no-trade to go to the Dodgers for Penny. This trade will certainly put DePodesta on the hotseat, and if the Dodgers blow this lead, it's gonna get real hot.

Fungo
08-24-2004, 10:34 AM
Get on the horn and offer them Cliff Politte or Marte and see if they'll bite.

samram
08-24-2004, 10:39 AM
Get on the horn and offer them Cliff Politte or Marte and see if they'll bite.
You know, that's not a bad idea. If only I was the GM.:smile:

MRKARNO
08-24-2004, 11:47 AM
Penny made their rotation a lot better and for this reason the trade was good. Now they can send Penny and Perez as their 1-2 punch with the two best pitcher of the following at the end of the year: Weaver, Lima, Alvarez, Nomo, and Jackson. It makes their playoff chances a lot more serious than before. The fact is that their bullpen is still solid with lesser known names such as Giovanni Carrara, Yhency Brazoban, Duaner Sanchez and Wilson Alvarez once Nomo or Jackson comes back. Their bullpen will be fine. It was definately a lot to give up for Penny and Hee Sop Choi, but I dont think it will harm the Dodgers as much as people say.

samram
08-24-2004, 01:10 PM
Penny made their rotation a lot better and for this reason the trade was good. Now they can send Penny and Perez as their 1-2 punch with the two best pitcher of the following at the end of the year: Weaver, Lima, Alvarez, Nomo, and Jackson. It makes their playoff chances a lot more serious than before. The fact is that their bullpen is still solid with lesser known names such as Giovanni Carrara, Yhency Brazoban, Duaner Sanchez and Wilson Alvarez once Nomo or Jackson comes back. Their bullpen will be fine. It was definately a lot to give up for Penny and Hee Sop Choi, but I dont think it will harm the Dodgers as much as people say.
OTOH, their lead has gone from to 4.5 in the last week.

Tekijawa
08-24-2004, 01:21 PM
I think a Worse trade is: who ever we gave up, for Bob-o Alomar!

Jjav829
08-24-2004, 01:25 PM
Penny made their rotation a lot better and for this reason the trade was good. Now they can send Penny and Perez as their 1-2 punch with the two best pitcher of the following at the end of the year: Weaver, Lima, Alvarez, Nomo, and Jackson. It makes their playoff chances a lot more serious than before. The fact is that their bullpen is still solid with lesser known names such as Giovanni Carrara, Yhency Brazoban, Duaner Sanchez and Wilson Alvarez once Nomo or Jackson comes back. Their bullpen will be fine. It was definately a lot to give up for Penny and Hee Sop Choi, but I dont think it will harm the Dodgers as much as people say.
If Penny even recovers. Who knows if he'll even pitch again this year and if he does, he likely won't be at 100%. Choi has been awful with them. They traded Mota just in time to see Dreifort become bad again and find out he is hurt (now out for the year). That trade looks AWFUL for them right now.

fquaye149
08-24-2004, 01:34 PM
I think a Worse trade is: who ever we gave up, for Bob-o Alomar!
ok. now think again.

MarkEdward
08-24-2004, 01:45 PM
Penny made their rotation a lot better and for this reason the trade was good. Now they can send Penny and Perez as their 1-2 punch with the two best pitcher of the following at the end of the year: Weaver, Lima, Alvarez, Nomo, and Jackson. It makes their playoff chances a lot more serious than before. The fact is that their bullpen is still solid with lesser known names such as Giovanni Carrara, Yhency Brazoban, Duaner Sanchez and Wilson Alvarez once Nomo or Jackson comes back. Their bullpen will be fine. It was definately a lot to give up for Penny and Hee Sop Choi, but I dont think it will harm the Dodgers as much as people say.Good post. The Dodgers desperately needed another starter, as Perez-Weaver-Lima-Ishii-Alvarez was not a very good rotation. Penny is better than any of those pitchers, and adding Penny to the roster allows one of those starters to move to the pen (most likely Ishii). Choi provides another bat and quality defense at first. Losing Lo Duca is a blow to the Dodger offense, but I think acquiring Steve Finley is a decent replacement for Paul's bat (.341 EQA since joining L.A.).

Gagne's usage pattern hasn't changed since the trade. He's just going through a cold spell (his first in 2.5 years). Losing Driefort is big, but Depodesta certainly couldn't have forseen that injury. Either way, the pen is still decent. Brazoban's been lights out since joining the team, as has Carrara. Sanchez has been good for a middle reliever, and Dessens pitches well out of the pen (as opposed to starting).

As for the worst trade of the season, I'd say Kazmir-Zambrano/Fortunado.

samram
08-24-2004, 02:08 PM
Good post. The Dodgers desperately needed another starter, as Perez-Weaver-Lima-Ishii-Alvarez was not a very good rotation. Penny is better than any of those pitchers, and adding Penny to the roster allows one of those starters to move to the pen (most likely Ishii). Choi provides another bat and quality defense at first. Losing Lo Duca is a blow to the Dodger offense, but I think acquiring Steve Finley is a decent replacement for Paul's bat (.341 EQA since joining L.A.).

Gagne's usage pattern hasn't changed since the trade. He's just going through a cold spell (his first in 2.5 years). Losing Driefort is big, but Depodesta certainly couldn't have forseen that injury. Either way, the pen is still decent. Brazoban's been lights out since joining the team, as has Carrara. Sanchez has been good for a middle reliever, and Dessens pitches well out of the pen (as opposed to starting).

As for the worst trade of the season, I'd say Kazmir-Zambrano/Fortunado.
Couldn't foresee an injury to Darren Dreifort? He threw 94 innings in 2001, 60 in 2003 (he missed all of 2002)- he's pretty injury prone.

As for Gagne's usage, he threw 11 1/3 innings in May, 11 in June, 15 in July, and already has thrown 13 this month, so this will probably be his highest number thus far. In July, he was 11-12 in saves opps, was 1-0 with a 1.22 ERA. In August, he is 5-6 in save opps (still not bad), but is 1-3 with a 5.54 ERA. Overall, his ERA has gone from 1.41 to start August, to 2.36. Maybe it is just a down period, but like I said before, they have lost 4.5 games on their lead in the last week or so. Also, while Finley may be a replacement for LoDuca, they have replaced Encarnacion/Roberts with Mayne/Ross, and neither has hit very well.

HomeFish
08-24-2004, 02:09 PM
That Loaiza trade isn't working out too well for the Yankees either.

MRKARNO
08-24-2004, 05:02 PM
As for the worst trade of the season, I'd say Kazmir-Zambrano/Fortunado.
There is no doubt in my opinion that this was one of the most terrible trades I've ever seen. The Mets gave up their top pitching prospect, who also happens to be one of the best pitching prospects in baseball in exchange for a pitcher who leads the majors in walks, hit batsmen, pitcher per inning and has the 8th worst WHIP in the majors among starters. To top it off, the DRays were considering non-tendering him! This trade is truly beyond comprehension at how bad it is.

Randar68
08-24-2004, 05:10 PM
There is no doubt in my opinion that this was one of the most terrible trades I've ever seen. The Mets gave up their top pitching prospect, who also happens to be one of the best pitching prospects in baseball in exchange for a pitcher who leads the majors in walks, hit batsmen, pitcher per inning and has the 8th worst WHIP in the majors among starters. To top it off, the DRays were considering non-tendering him! This trade is truly beyond comprehension at how bad it is.Kazmir (and a converted catcher-to-RHP w/ a shot at being a good MLB releiver)for Zambrano should cost the Mets GM his job on the spot. Completely asinine.

MarkEdward
08-24-2004, 05:13 PM
Couldn't foresee an injury to Darren Dreifort? He threw 94 innings in 2001, 60 in 2003 (he missed all of 2002)- he's pretty injury prone.His current injury is an ACL tear, IIRC. His past injuries were related to his arm.

As for Gagne's usage, he threw 11 1/3 innings in May, 11 in June, 15 in July, and already has thrown 13 this month, so this will probably be his highest number thus far. In July, he was 11-12 in saves opps, was 1-0 with a 1.22 ERA. In August, he is 5-6 in save opps (still not bad), but is 1-3 with a 5.54 ERA. Overall, his ERA has gone from 1.41 to start August, to 2.36. Maybe it is just a down period, but like I said before, they have lost 4.5 games on their lead in the last week or so.August has been an odd month for Gagne. He's had two excellent outings (8/01, 8/15), two bad outings (8/03, 8/18), one odd outing (8/18), and the rest good to mediocre. I do believe Gagne can handle longer outings because of his previous experience as a starter and his body type.

Give some credit to the Giants too. They're really hot.

Also, while Finley may be a replacement for LoDuca, they have replaced Encarnacion/Roberts with Mayne/Ross, and neither has hit very well.Overall, Choi (.298 EQA) replaces Green (.288) at first. Green (.288) replaces Juan Encarnacion (.240) in right field, Milton Bradley (.286) replaces Dave Roberts (.276 EQA) in left, Finley (.280) replaces Bradley in center, Mayne/Ross replace Lo Duca. They've significantly downgraded one position (C), significantly upgraded another (RF), and made minor improvements in others (1B, LF).

JRIG
08-24-2004, 06:03 PM
There is no doubt in my opinion that this was one of the most terrible trades I've ever seen. The Mets gave up their top pitching prospect, who also happens to be one of the best pitching prospects in baseball in exchange for a pitcher who leads the majors in walks, hit batsmen, pitcher per inning and has the 8th worst WHIP in the majors among starters. To top it off, the DRays were considering non-tendering him! This trade is truly beyond comprehension at how bad it is.
Kazmir -- right now -- is a better pitcher than Zambrano. The Mets would have been better off and would have gotten better, cheaper production just by promoting Scott Kazmir rather than trying to acquire Victor Zambrano.

mdep524
08-24-2004, 10:03 PM
There is no doubt in my opinion that this was one of the most terrible trades I've ever seen. The Mets gave up their top pitching prospect, who also happens to be one of the best pitching prospects in baseball in exchange for a pitcher who leads the majors in walks, hit batsmen, pitcher per inning and has the 8th worst WHIP in the majors among starters. To top it off, the DRays were considering non-tendering him! This trade is truly beyond comprehension at how bad it is.
Gotta agree, this is beyond ridiculous. I remember the Mets were inquiring about Loaiza from the Sox, but KW said no... only to trade him a week later. I wonder if we could've had Scott Kazmir that cheaply.

santo=dorf
08-25-2004, 01:02 PM
Gotta agree, this is beyond ridiculous. I remember the Mets were inquiring about Loaiza from the Sox, but KW said no... only to trade him a week later. I wonder if we could've had Scott Kazmir that cheaply.
I remember reading that KW told the Rangers if they got Victor Zambrano, he would be willing to trade Loaiza to the Rangers in exchange for him.

The worst trade of the season has to be the D-Backs getting rid of Schilling and a ton of major league caliber players in exchange for Richie Sexson. Casey Fossum has been brutal this year for the D'backs.

fquaye149
08-25-2004, 02:02 PM
I remember reading that KW told the Rangers if they got Victor Zambrano, he would be willing to trade Loaiza to the Rangers in exchange for him.

The worst trade of the season has to be the D-Backs getting rid of Schilling and a ton of major league caliber players in exchange for Richie Sexson. Casey Fossum has been brutal this year for the D'backs.
honestly the d-backs brewers trade wasn't that poor - though it looks good now that sexson is hurt.

Sexson probably would have put up .290-45-130. . .meanwhile junior spivey and craig counsell are merely holding back potential young stars like branyan and bill hall while chad moeller is nothing remotely decent at the plate.

Overbay is having a year, but I'm not sure that he's not a flash in the pan, especially considering he has worse speed than walnuts.