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View Full Version : Tell me why anyone should be Untouchable on this team!!


ChiSoxTony
08-23-2004, 10:33 PM
Everyday I read a post here where someone states that we need to break up this team get rid of everyone but....and they proceed to rattle off four or five different players. Well will someone tell me why anyone on this piece of crap team should be untouchable. As far as Im concerned everone is fair game for trade. This is the same garbage we have had to deal with since the second half of the 2000 season. These guys lose focus they play like crap, and frankly they dont give a s__t anymore. Its the same guys year after year. This year we heard "ozzie ball this and ozzie ball that", and guess what the same dog s__t. Its time to say bye bye to as many of these jerk off players as possible. Trade the ones that can get us some value in return, and dump the rest of the s__t. Enough is Enough!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

HebrewHammer
08-23-2004, 10:43 PM
Everyday I read a post here where someone states that we need to break up this team get rid of everyone but....and they proceed to rattle off four or five different players. Well will someone tell me why anyone on this piece of crap team should be untouchable. As far as Im concerned everone is fair game for trade. This is the same garbage we have had to deal with since the second half of the 2000 season. These guys lose focus they play like crap, and frankly they dont give a s__t anymore. Its the same guys year after year. This year we heard "ozzie ball this and ozzie ball that", and guess what the same dog s__t. Its time to say bye bye to as many of these jerk off players as possible. Trade the ones that can get us some value in return, and dump the rest of the s__t. Enough is Enough!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:I can't. I would like to keep some of our pitchers, Buerhle, Shingo, Freddy, Damaso, but if someone had an offer I'd listen, then again I'm not KW. I think we have a roster of stat padders and borderline MLB players, obviously this is not a division winning roster, I'm totally in favor of blowing this team up as long as we can be competitive next year.

idseer
08-23-2004, 10:58 PM
Everyday I read a post here where someone states that we need to break up this team get rid of everyone but....and they proceed to rattle off four or five different players. Well will someone tell me why anyone on this piece of crap team should be untouchable. As far as Im concerned everone is fair game for trade. This is the same garbage we have had to deal with since the second half of the 2000 season. These guys lose focus they play like crap, and frankly they dont give a s__t anymore. Its the same guys year after year. This year we heard "ozzie ball this and ozzie ball that", and guess what the same dog s__t. Its time to say bye bye to as many of these jerk off players as possible. Trade the ones that can get us some value in return, and dump the rest of the s__t. Enough is Enough!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

i think it's all relative, tony. no one is untouchable on any team. someone offers enough for a player he'll be gone.

KingXerxes
08-23-2004, 11:02 PM
While nobody should ever be untouchable, you've got to make choices about going forward, develop some sort of plan and stick with it. The organization seems incapable of that thought process.

oeo
08-23-2004, 11:06 PM
So you want to get rid of Garcia, Buerhle, and Contreras? Those are the only 3 on my untouchable list because it is a great start to a great rotation.

MRKARNO
08-23-2004, 11:12 PM
Because Frank Thomas is still one of the best hitters in baseball.

Tragg
08-23-2004, 11:14 PM
Because Frank Thomas is still one of the best hitters in baseball.
No way could we get a DH close to the quality of Frank; plus, he's Frank

KingXerxes
08-23-2004, 11:15 PM
So you want to get rid of Garcia, Buerhle, and Contreras? Those are the only 3 on my untouchable list because it is a great start to a great rotation.

My question is when does that "great rotation" start pitching like a great rotation?

JB98
08-23-2004, 11:20 PM
Everyday I read a post here where someone states that we need to break up this team get rid of everyone but....and they proceed to rattle off four or five different players. Well will someone tell me why anyone on this piece of crap team should be untouchable. As far as Im concerned everone is fair game for trade. This is the same garbage we have had to deal with since the second half of the 2000 season. These guys lose focus they play like crap, and frankly they dont give a s__t anymore. Its the same guys year after year. This year we heard "ozzie ball this and ozzie ball that", and guess what the same dog s__t. Its time to say bye bye to as many of these jerk off players as possible. Trade the ones that can get us some value in return, and dump the rest of the s__t. Enough is Enough!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
I hate these kinds of posts. To say the players "don't give a s__t" anymore" is just ridiculous. Look, nobody is going out there trying to lose a game. Sooner or later, you just have to accept that we have an undermanned team at this stage of the season. I don't know about you, but I want to see competitive baseball in 2005. Gutting the team is not the solution. We have maybe 8-10 guys who are pulling their weight, another 8-10 who are dead weight and another group that is somewhere in the middle. Let's see how the season plays out. I want to see how guys finish before I determine who I want back next year and who I do not.

Parrothead
08-23-2004, 11:23 PM
No way could we get a DH close to the quality of Frank; plus, he's Frank
Nobody will take Frank's contract. That was proven last year. That is why he is untouchable.

Mohoney
08-23-2004, 11:23 PM
My question is when does that "great rotation" start pitching like a great rotation?

Right around the time the Jon Garland experiment is finally declared a failure, we put an end to the 5th starter merry-go-round, we realize we need two more competent starters, and we get them, no matter what we have to give up.

duke of dorwood
08-23-2004, 11:50 PM
Marte should not be untouchable-some sucker may trade value for a left handed reliever.

Viva Magglio
08-24-2004, 12:08 AM
The people I keep for sure are Ordˇ˝ez (if he stays), Rowand, Lee, and Buehrle.

OurBitchinMinny
08-24-2004, 12:29 AM
I can't. I would like to keep some of our pitchers, Buerhle, Shingo, Freddy, Damaso, but if someone had an offer I'd listen, then again I'm not KW. I think we have a roster of stat padders and borderline MLB players, obviously this is not a division winning roster, I'm totally in favor of blowing this team up as long as we can be competitive next year.
Id unload marte if anyone can be gotten for him. He has been awful this year especially lately. That slider he threw to ortiz was just pathetic. He always chokes in pressure situations. How many times has he walked in the winning run this year.

OurBitchinMinny
08-24-2004, 12:31 AM
Because Frank Thomas is still one of the best hitters in baseball.
He hits .260 now. That eliminates him from being one of the best hitters in baseball now, injury or no injury. .260 is ok i guess if he keeps hitting 40 HR and 100 rbi.

mdep524
08-24-2004, 12:47 AM
Id unload marte if anyone can be gotten for him. He has been awful this year especially lately. That slider he threw to ortiz was just pathetic. He always chokes in pressure situations. How many times has he walked in the winning run this year.
I bet a lot of teams in the league would trade some serious talent for Marte, and I would listen. He's not a great pressure guy- he's a good set up guy but will never be a closer, and you can't build a team around a left-handed set up man anyway.

mdep524
08-24-2004, 12:52 AM
If the Sox would consider trading Konerko/Lee, Garland and Marte, it would sure go along way to replenish the team with some good talent to build around. Those are all guys who would have fairly high market values (Garland's recent blow up notwithstanding).

HebrewHammer
08-24-2004, 01:07 AM
Id unload marte if anyone can be gotten for him. He has been awful this year especially lately. That slider he threw to ortiz was just pathetic. He always chokes in pressure situations. How many times has he walked in the winning run this year.At least once.....7/4/04, the day that will live in infamy.

fusillirob1983
08-24-2004, 01:13 AM
Frank was hitting .271 at the time he was put on the DL, and that's after he played 20 games with an injury. I think he was hitting .295 or so before the injury. Is .295 one of the best batting averages in baseball, no. But he was one of the most feared by pitchers earlier in the season.

Dan H
08-24-2004, 05:55 AM
I hate these kinds of posts. To say the players "don't give a s__t" anymore" is just ridiculous. Look, nobody is going out there trying to lose a game. Sooner or later, you just have to accept that we have an undermanned team at this stage of the season. I don't know about you, but I want to see competitive baseball in 2005. Gutting the team is not the solution. We have maybe 8-10 guys who are pulling their weight, another 8-10 who are dead weight and another group that is somewhere in the middle. Let's see how the season plays out. I want to see how guys finish before I determine who I want back next year and who I do not.
You mean you haven't seen enough?

chisoxt
08-24-2004, 06:02 AM
Everyday I read a post here where someone states that we need to break up this team get rid of everyone but....and they proceed to rattle off four or five different players. Well will someone tell me why anyone on this piece of crap team should be untouchable. As far as Im concerned everone is fair game for trade. This is the same garbage we have had to deal with since the second half of the 2000 season. These guys lose focus they play like crap, and frankly they dont give a s__t anymore. Its the same guys year after year. This year we heard "ozzie ball this and ozzie ball that", and guess what the same dog s__t. Its time to say bye bye to as many of these jerk off players as possible. Trade the ones that can get us some value in return, and dump the rest of the s__t. Enough is Enough!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
You're right. Why are other teams going to want your garbage? They are going to want the good players, few as they may be.

SSN721
08-24-2004, 07:02 AM
Burlymon, Freddy and JC are the only untouchables to me, we have to build some kind of core for the pitching staff. Otherwise, I would listen to all offers. Then again I would for those three too. If it was a ood enough offer.

wdelaney72
08-24-2004, 08:36 AM
Exactly, and that was at $6 milllion. His player option next year is $8 million.


Nobody will take Frank's contract. That was proven last year. That is why he is untouchable.

wdelaney72
08-24-2004, 08:37 AM
I can't. I would like to keep some of our pitchers, Buerhle, Shingo, Freddy, Damaso, but if someone had an offer I'd listen, then again I'm not KW. I think we have a roster of stat padders and borderline MLB players, obviously this is not a division winning roster, I'm totally in favor of blowing this team up as long as we can be competitive next year.
Actually, I'd love to trade Damaso for a more reliable veteran. I like Damaso, but hie has not been all that reliable this year. But then again, who on this team has?

JDP
08-24-2004, 08:44 AM
If someone were to overwhelm with an offer that involved anyone on this team, I think KW would have to take a look at it. I'd trade absolutely anybody on this team if the deal were absolutely right -- that includes Buehrle, Freddy, Contreras, etc. If the Fish were to offer Willis and top-notch prospects for Buehrle, would anyone not take that? .......

Deadguy
08-24-2004, 09:23 AM
Nobody will take Frank's contract. That was proven last year. That is why he is untouchable.
What the hell are you talking about?

balke
08-24-2004, 09:33 AM
If someone were to overwhelm with an offer that involved anyone on this team, I think KW would have to take a look at it. I'd trade absolutely anybody on this team if the deal were absolutely right -- that includes Buehrle, Freddy, Contreras, etc. If the Fish were to offer Willis and top-notch prospects for Buehrle, would anyone not take that? .......

Dontrelle hits too well to be in the American league, we might redeal him, but I doubt we'd ever get him or keep him. Especially not for Buehrle.

balke
08-24-2004, 09:34 AM
What the hell are you talking about?
Bump.

PorkChopExpress
08-24-2004, 09:39 AM
Frank is the only untouchable one for me. He is probably the greatest hitter to wear a Sox uniform, and I want him to wear one for his whole career, including the day he hits #500 and the day he gets into the HOF. And yes, he is still one of the best hitters in the league. He was second only to Bonds in walks, among the league leaders in Homeruns and OBP, and still feared by all before his injury. Hell, KW wanted him on the bench just to instill fear in the opponents.

3Peater
08-24-2004, 09:43 AM
Not many deserve to be retained on this team, and the GM should no longer be given a free pass.


10 games over .500 last year, .500 the year before, a measly 4 games over .500 in 2001,the "GREAT" 2000, which is looking like an aberration, then 3 sub-.500 years before that.

Even Frank Thomas should not be untouchable. The Sox have won 3 division titles with Thomas, only ONE in the past 11 seasons.

But Kenny Williams can go about "re-tooling" with a few pieces. Change a couple parts here or there, and look for another second place or worse finish next year.

8 second place finishes since 1990, 3 firsts. WHOOPEE!

balke
08-24-2004, 10:04 AM
Not many deserve to be retained on this team, and the GM should no longer be given a free pass.


10 games over .500 last year, .500 the year before, a measly 4 games over .500 in 2001,the "GREAT" 2000, which is looking like an aberration, then 3 sub-.500 years before that.

Even Frank Thomas should not be untouchable. The Sox have won 3 division titles with Thomas, only ONE in the past 11 seasons.

But Kenny Williams can go about "re-tooling" with a few pieces. Change a couple parts here or there, and look for another second place or worse finish next year.

8 second place finishes since 1990, 3 firsts. WHOOPEE!

Yeah, let go of Frank. I'm gonna take my kid to the ball park to see rent-a-players and no names next season. I can't wait. Maybe we can catch a pirates/sox game. How can you have any love for this game trading away your career long possible HOFamer? He'd go in his 2nd teams Uni for sure. The Sox would turn Blacker. you'd be on this board complaining that sox have finished 5th 3 years straight when the Minor league #1 prospects we pick up turn out like the rest of our #1 minor league prospects. DOA.

3Peater
08-24-2004, 11:00 AM
He's not untouchable. He's likely not going to be traded, either.

But, do you think some of the things that have happened around him haven't affected the clubhouse over the years? Complaining about contract $$$ year after year hasn't hurt them?

Thomas has GREAT numbers, for a team that hasn't produced. Yeah, I'd take my kids to see him play too.

2nd, 5th, does it matter if your team isn't in FIRST???

Deadguy
08-24-2004, 11:31 AM
He's not untouchable. He's likely not going to be traded, either.

But, do you think some of the things that have happened around him haven't affected the clubhouse over the years? Complaining about contract $$$ year after year hasn't hurt them?

Thomas has GREAT numbers, for a team that hasn't produced. Yeah, I'd take my kids to see him play too.

2nd, 5th, does it matter if your team isn't in FIRST???
Would you mind citing a few examples of where Thomas could have conceivably done more to help us make the playoffs? The only years I can think of are 1996 and 2003. In 1996, we finished 2.5 games behind the Orioles in the race for the WC. Thomas hit 11 homers in September and the Sox went just 6-12 when he was injured, so I don't see how you can blame him for that season. Last year, he could have probably done more, but you he's probably behind a list of guys 10 deep who deserve to have the finger pointed at them, with Konerko and Koch at the top of the list.

Every other year, we were too far out for any one player, outside of maybe Bonds, to propel us into the playoffs (1998, worst pitching in baseball, 1999, kids weren't nearly capable of keeping up with the likes of Cleveland or Boston, 2002, we finished 10+ games behind the Twins). Every other year, I don't know what more you think Thomas could or should done.

For the record, I don't think Thomas is "untouchable" per se, as everyone on this roster sickens me at the moment, besides A-row. However, those who think Thomas will leave this team via a trade are clueless. Thomas holds a player option for next year, which he has indicated he will excercise. He is also a 10 and 5 player that can veto any trade, so unless the Expos move to Vegas, I don't see Thomas requesting a trade anywhere. In 2006, the Sox can buy out Thomas' option for 3.5 million, which is how it will probably play out, and Thomas will sign elsewhere in 2006. He will never be traded.

3Peater
08-24-2004, 11:41 AM
Would you mind citing a few examples of where Thomas could have conceivably done more to help us make the playoffs? The only years I can think of are 1996 and 2003. In 1996, we finished 2.5 games behind the Orioles in the race for the WC. Thomas hit 11 homers in September and the Sox went just 6-12 when he was injured, so I don't see how you can blame him for that season. Last year, he could have probably done more, but you he's probably behind a list of guys 10 deep who deserve to have the finger pointed at them, with Konerko and Koch at the top of the list.

Every other year, we were too far out for any one player, outside of maybe Bonds, to propel us into the playoffs (1998, worst pitching in baseball, 1999, kids weren't nearly capable of keeping up with the likes of Cleveland or Boston, 2002, we finished 10+ games behind the Twins). Every other year, I don't know what more you think Thomas could or should done.

For the record, I don't think Thomas is "untouchable" per se, as everyone on this roster sickens me at the moment, besides A-row. However, those who think Thomas will leave this team via a trade are clueless. Thomas holds a player option for next year, which he has indicated he will excercise. He is also a 10 and 5 player that can veto any trade, so unless the Expos move to Vegas, I don't see Thomas requesting a trade anywhere. In 2006, the Sox can buy out Thomas' option for 3.5 million, which is how it will probably play out, and Thomas will sign elsewhere in 2006. He will never be traded.
Never said he didn't do as much as he could. GREAT numbers, underachieving teams. Guess he's headed for the Rafael Palmeiro category. Great numbers, no championships.

There is no likelihood FT will be gone, unless Steinbrenner came calling. If Mags leaves and there is no splash for a replacement(I don't think Beltran/Boras will avoid NYY; he'll wear pinstripes), this team will be a punchless as it has been since Thomas' injury. Lee will have to bat behind him, but who in front. Everett? His best days are behind him.

And pitching-wise, this team is still poor overall inthe bullpen. Who has Cooper helped get better?

ma_deuce
08-24-2004, 11:48 AM
He hits .260 now. That eliminates him from being one of the best hitters in baseball now, injury or no injury. .260 is ok i guess if he keeps hitting 40 HR and 100 rbi.
Frank was having a great year until he was injured (to date, not when he was finally put on the DL). He looked like the Frank I knew before, with an awesome OBP to boot.

IMO, Frank is untouchable because he is the White Sox. Everyone else is just a player on his team.

Deuce

E Coast Sox Fan
08-24-2004, 11:56 AM
The only player I'd keep is Rowand. Based on the way he plays and reacts to game situations, he's the only one who gives a crap.

Iguana775
08-24-2004, 11:58 AM
Frank was having a great year until he was injured (to date, not when he was finally put on the DL). He looked like the Frank I knew before, with an awesome OBP to boot.

IMO, Frank is untouchable because he is the White Sox. Everyone else is just a player on his team.

Deuce
Frank Thomas IS THE WHITE SOX. UNTOUCHABLE!

Dadawg_77
08-24-2004, 12:04 PM
The only player on this team that the Sox need to hold on too, is Frank.

Whitesox029
08-25-2004, 12:20 AM
I couldn't care less about the old washed up ones like the alomars and everett and jackson. But do you know why the young players and players in their prime are untouchable? Because every time we trade a young player or a player in his prime, he comes back to kill us, shutting us out, homering us to death, hitting .300 against us and everyone else on a yearly basis. Trading key players in their prime is just not a good idea. Period.

doublem23
08-25-2004, 12:22 AM
Well... One is a future Hall of Famer, another is on track to win 290-300 games in his career, there's a third guy who has one of the wickedest pitches I've seen, this other guy is one of the best set-up men in baseball when he's not overpitched...

I could probably name a few more.

AnkleSox
08-25-2004, 02:22 AM
To me these guys in the major league club are untouchable

Frank Thomas - it's obvious; he's a white sox staple and still one of the best hitters in the game.

Aaron Rowand - Finally has proven himself and has the tools to become one of the game's most complete players. If anyone gives him the chance to prove himself even more, it should be the White Sox. Hell, the only reason he doesn't have the potential to be another Beltran is because he's not a switch hitter.

Garcia and Buehrle - it's damn hard to get starting pitchers, and we already have these two signed for a few more years. With the money the Sox have, it would be damn hard to find a 1-2 punch this good.


Other than that, i say blow the damn team up. Keeping either Lee or Konerko has its obvious benefits, but keeping both of them doesn't help balance out the lineup and losing both of them could free up a lot of payroll. So it should be either one or none. It might also be nice to let Ben Davis play another year if in fact he has found his niche with the sox, but if a great catcher like Kendall becomes available for a reasonable price, Kenny should jump on it.

Ozzie has great passion and I do believe that he has the brains to be a great manager. I can't really blame him and a few rookie mistakes for the team's collapse. Let him manage the team again next year.

Let KW make what deals he can; getting rid of Lee and/or Konerko, Valentin, Magglio (unless he wants to stay for cheap), and even Garland and Everett frees up alot of payroll. Most money should be put towards starting pitching with long-term contracts in the 4-5 spots (assuming they also keep Contreras). The leftover money can be used to get some good (while not all-stars) hard working position players. Leave our prospects alone! Except for of course Joe Borchard who should be a batboy. Let the stars of the farm system develop fully and then call them up in 2006 or 2007 when they are ready. If the team can't do well in 2005 (which i think it can if KW makes the right moves), there should be several players who will have become major league material (BMac, Anderson, Sweeney, etc... all those guys that never got a chance while scrubs like Borchard and Diaz were called up to blow it for us) within the next few years.



Edit : Move the fences back too :D: . Our starting pitchers have been getting crushed at home and our batters have become WAAAAY too accustomed to trying for the long ball on the road (and at home, though it works a little more there obviously).