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hold2dibber
08-23-2004, 12:28 PM
With the Sox considerably closer to 4th place (only 3 games ahead of the Tigers) and only about 40 games left, it should be obvious to everyone that this season is over. Therefore, in preparation for '05, the Sox have to start letting the young guys play to help the team figure out how to proceed in preparing the roster for '05. At the very least:

(1) Borchard should play RF and be in the line-up every game for the rest of the season. Any game Timo Perez or Ross Gload plays instead of Borchard is a huge waste.

(2) Harris should play 2B and be in the line-up every game, including against lefties. Harris has been a useful player against right handed pitching this year (.290 avg., .385 OBP) but has been horrible in very limited duty against lefties (.170 avg., .214 OBP in 53 ABs). Time to see if he can make enough noise against lefties to be anything more than a part-time player.

(3) Scrap the 4 man rotation and give Diaz the ball every 5th day. The guy has been absolutely lights out fantastic in AAA; usually the kind of success that suggests at least some level of competency at the major league level. Let him get about 7 or 8 consecutive turns in the rotation to see if he can settle in and prove himself worthy of a spot in the rotation next year - I really think he just needs to get comfortable at this level, and he'll be an above-average no. 5 starter next year.

(4) Ben Davis should continue to be the starting catcher for the rest of the year. The Sox don't have anyone even close to the MLB level in the minors and Sandy, frankly, is done. With Olivo gone, the Sox will be in desparate need to find a catcher this off season, UNLESS Davis can show he's turned the corner.

(5) Juan Uribe should be starting vitually every day at SS. As much as I like and admire Jose, I can't see bringing him back again next year. The Sox need to see as much as Uribe as possible so they can figure out if he's the starting SS or a utility guy again next year.

I'd also suggest limiting the work load of guys like Garcia, Buehrle and Marte. let Adkins, Cotts, and Stewart pitch more innings (and more innings in tight situations) down the stretch. Rest Everett a lot - he's under contract for next year and with Maggs (probably) gone, he's penciled in as the every day RF next year; he needs to get as healthy as possible for spring training.

Wealz
08-23-2004, 12:35 PM
With the Sox considerably closer to 4th place (only 3 games ahead of the Tigers) and only about 40 games left, it should be obvious to everyone that this season is over. Therefore, in preparation for '05, the Sox have to start letting the young guys play to help the team figure out how to proceed in preparing the roster for '05. At the very least:

(1) Borchard should play RF and be in the line-up every game for the rest of the season. Any game Timo Perez or Ross Gload plays instead of Borchard is a huge waste.

(2) Harris should play 2B and be in the line-up every game, including against lefties. Harris has been a useful player against right handed pitching this year (.290 avg., .385 OBP) but has been horrible in very limited duty against lefties (.170 avg., .214 OBP in 53 ABs). Time to see if he can make enough noise against lefties to be anything more than a part-time player.

(3) Scrap the 4 man rotation and give Diaz the ball every 5th day. The guy has been absolutely lights out fantastic in AAA; usually the kind of success that suggests at least some level of competency at the major league level. Let him get about 7 or 8 consecutive turns in the rotation to see if he can settle in and prove himself worthy of a spot in the rotation next year - I really think he just needs to get comfortable at this level, and he'll be an above-average no. 5 starter next year.

(4) Ben Davis should continue to be the starting catcher for the rest of the year. The Sox don't have anyone even close to the MLB level in the minors and Sandy, frankly, is done. With Olivo gone, the Sox will be in desparate need to find a catcher this off season, UNLESS Davis can show he's turned the corner.

(5) Juan Uribe should be starting vitually every day at SS. As much as I like and admire Jose, I can't see bringing him back again next year. The Sox need to see as much as Uribe as possible so they can figure out if he's the starting SS or a utility guy again next year.

I'd also suggest limiting the work load of guys like Garcia, Buehrle and Marte. let Adkins, Cotts, and Stewart pitch more innings (and more innings in tight situations) down the stretch. Rest Everett a lot - he's under contract for next year and with Maggs (probably) gone, he's penciled in as the every day RF next year; he needs to get as healthy as possible for spring training.
Agreed.

I think the best use for Harris is a Chone Figgins-type role. To that end I'd put him at third and in left for a a few games too.

gosox41
08-23-2004, 12:38 PM
With the Sox considerably closer to 4th place (only 3 games ahead of the Tigers) and only about 40 games left, it should be obvious to everyone that this season is over. Therefore, in preparation for '05, the Sox have to start letting the young guys play to help the team figure out how to proceed in preparing the roster for '05. At the very least:

(1) Borchard should play RF and be in the line-up every game for the rest of the season. Any game Timo Perez or Ross Gload plays instead of Borchard is a huge waste.

(2) Harris should play 2B and be in the line-up every game, including against lefties. Harris has been a useful player against right handed pitching this year (.290 avg., .385 OBP) but has been horrible in very limited duty against lefties (.170 avg., .214 OBP in 53 ABs). Time to see if he can make enough noise against lefties to be anything more than a part-time player.

(3) Scrap the 4 man rotation and give Diaz the ball every 5th day. The guy has been absolutely lights out fantastic in AAA; usually the kind of success that suggests at least some level of competency at the major league level. Let him get about 7 or 8 consecutive turns in the rotation to see if he can settle in and prove himself worthy of a spot in the rotation next year - I really think he just needs to get comfortable at this level, and he'll be an above-average no. 5 starter next year.

(4) Ben Davis should continue to be the starting catcher for the rest of the year. The Sox don't have anyone even close to the MLB level in the minors and Sandy, frankly, is done. With Olivo gone, the Sox will be in desparate need to find a catcher this off season, UNLESS Davis can show he's turned the corner.

(5) Juan Uribe should be starting vitually every day at SS. As much as I like and admire Jose, I can't see bringing him back again next year. The Sox need to see as much as Uribe as possible so they can figure out if he's the starting SS or a utility guy again next year.

I'd also suggest limiting the work load of guys like Garcia, Buehrle and Marte. let Adkins, Cotts, and Stewart pitch more innings (and more innings in tight situations) down the stretch. Rest Everett a lot - he's under contract for next year and with Maggs (probably) gone, he's penciled in as the every day RF next year; he needs to get as healthy as possible for spring training.
I agree. It's time for KW to see first hand on a consistent basis what most of these kids can/can't do so he doesn't disillusion himself this offseason and come back next year with an OF or Borchard/Rowand/Everett or Uribe as his starting SS.


Bob

fledgedrallycap
08-23-2004, 12:43 PM
well stated, completely agree.

duke of dorwood
08-23-2004, 01:08 PM
I'll go further-let Diaz and another young pitcher get a couple of starts-a 6 man rotation. No one has any chance of milestone seasons-wind it down over the last 40 games.

HebrewHammer
08-23-2004, 01:27 PM
It goes to show just how pathetic this organization is when these are our "kids".

SomebodyToldMe
08-23-2004, 01:31 PM
I'll go further-let Diaz and another young pitcher get a couple of starts-a 6 man rotation. No one has any chance of milestone seasons-wind it down over the last 40 games.
I like that idea. Freddy, Mark, and Jose should be given a good amount of rest if they're going to be our big arms for next year. No need to risk injuries the rest of this season.

California Sox
08-23-2004, 02:26 PM
It goes to show just how pathetic this organization is when these are our "kids".
Hey, we traded our kids away. But be patient. BMac, Anderson, Sweeney, and maybe even Gio are coming pretty fast. If they're not traded. :smile:

SSN721
08-23-2004, 02:30 PM
I hate to agree, but this is definitely the best course of action. I was a fool to this point to hold out hope this team would do nothing but the usual let down at the end of the year. We need to play them all. Harris, Uribe, Borchard, Gload, Diaz, Stewart, Cotts. Play them all as much as possible til the end of the year to know what we are working with. Might as well get something out of these last 40 games. I am at the point now I really dont care if we come in 4th so lets just play the "kids" and see what we have to work with.

soltrain21
08-23-2004, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't mind us bringing up Wilson Valdez and seeing what he can do, also.

jackbrohamer
08-23-2004, 04:14 PM
I think I've seen enough of Willie Harris, I'm pretty confident I've seen all he can do.

Deadguy
08-23-2004, 04:23 PM
:threadrules:

Soxzilla
08-23-2004, 04:36 PM
Why does borchard deserve to play everyday over Ross Gload?

Gload has shown more promise in his left arm than borchard has in his entire fat stupid looking face.

Why waste at bats here...

misty60481
08-23-2004, 04:38 PM
We have a 2nd baseman named Bryan Nelson hitting .297, 21 HRs, 33 2Bhits, 77 RBIs, & 13 SBs why do we let him sit in Charlotte when we are so hard up for 2nd baseman

Nard
08-23-2004, 05:11 PM
Burke is hitting .344.

Shouldn't he get some extended time to see if that average is just a fluke in limited appearances?

hold2dibber
08-23-2004, 05:19 PM
Why does borchard deserve to play everyday over Ross Gload?

Gload has shown more promise in his left arm than borchard has in his entire fat stupid looking face.

Why waste at bats here...There's nothing about Gload's performance or abilities that suggest he ever could be a productive, every day major leaguer. Borchard's minor league performance has (on rare occassions) suggested that he could be and according to scouts, he has the tools to be, a productive major leaguer - although his performance on the MLB level has, to date, certainly suggested otherwise. To me, the absolute best you can hope from Gload as an everyday player, would be Timo Perez type numbers but with less speed and worse defensively. Borchard may never even become that "good" - but he could be a lot better.

Daver
08-23-2004, 05:49 PM
It goes to show just how pathetic this organization is when these are our "kids".
It all comes down to how you develop your talent, under Ron Schueler the Sox philosophy of promoting young talent was based on their ability to hit for position players, fielding their position and developing them as positional players was always secondary, almost an afterthought. It was even worse with pitchers, as soon as they showed some success at a level they were promoted, as opposed to being allowed to refine their skills in all facets of pitching.

This philosphy is changing somewhat, as noted with guys like Casey Rogowski and Kris Honel, who are being given the time to develop their skill, but it will take a long time to accomplish this at every level of the minors, but it is nowhere near like what the Twins do, they will let a good hitter go if he can't field a position in their system.

Finances play into this too, it is a lot cheaper on payroll to rush guys into the majors way before they are ready than it is to pay FA players. Joe Borchard is a prime example of this, instead of allowing him to get into the rytham of playing baseball in the minors as a lone sport, he was rushed through, despite injuries and other factors that showed he was not ready.

The Sox have a lot of talent in the lowest tiers of their system, it will be interesting to see how these players are developed, and what type of time span they are given to develop.

Parrothead
08-23-2004, 06:36 PM
There's nothing about Gload's performance or abilities that suggest he ever could be a productive, every day major leaguer. Borchard's minor league performance has (on rare occassions) suggested that he could be and according to scouts, he has the tools to be, a productive major leaguer - although his performance on the MLB level has, to date, certainly suggested otherwise. To me, the absolute best you can hope from Gload as an everyday player, would be Timo Perez type numbers but with less speed and worse defensively. Borchard may never even become that "good" - but he could be a lot better.
Borchard sucks.....his triple a average was .266 in 301 abs. He had 68 KOs (about every 4 abs). He had 16 hrs (a homer every 18.8 abs.) To me this is not a guy who deserves major league time. Now look at his ML stats. They are pitiful, almost as bad as julio rameriz. Drop the guy. If he continues to play, I stop watching and attending games...:angry:

MisterB
08-23-2004, 07:02 PM
We have a 2nd baseman named Bryan Nelson hitting .297, 21 HRs, 33 2Bhits, 77 RBIs, & 13 SBs why do we let him sit in Charlotte when we are so hard up for 2nd baseman
He's 30 years old and was so highly regarded as a prospect that he's been dumped by 5 organizations and had to play in Japan last year. He is what is known as a 'career minor leaguer'.

A. Cavatica
08-23-2004, 08:40 PM
He's 30 years old and was so highly regarded as a prospect that he's been dumped by 5 organizations and had to play in Japan last year. He is what is known as a 'career minor leaguer'.
Yes, but he's better than half the 'career major leaguers' on the Sox right now.

batmanZoSo
08-23-2004, 08:55 PM
I hate to agree, but this is definitely the best course of action. I was a fool to this point to hold out hope this team would do nothing but the usual let down at the end of the year. We need to play them all. Harris, Uribe, Borchard, Gload, Diaz, Stewart, Cotts. Play them all as much as possible til the end of the year to know what we are working with. Might as well get something out of these last 40 games. I am at the point now I really dont care if we come in 4th so lets just play the "kids" and see what we have to work with.
I've seen enough of all of our position players. Harris sucks, and that's final. There's no "let's see what he can do." We've already seen what he can('t) do. Gload is a pinch hitter and nothing more. Borchard is a buster, time for the organization to realize it. The faster that happens, the better off we are. Cotts doesn't have the mental makeup to overcome having only decent stuff. He might be a solid reliever in the future. Diaz blows chunks, but his minor league numbers are fantastic, so I agree that he should be starting the rest of the way.

There's really no point in seriously analyzing most of these guys for future roles here. None of them were anything special in the draft or highly touted by other teams. Harris was a mid level prospect for Baltimore. Gload is a journeyman minor leaguer. Cotts was upper mid level for Oakland at best. And Borchard was simply a bad pick. He's not a baseball player. At least not a major league one. He's weak in the head, doesn't have a plan at the plate, he's a bum.

Harris=God
08-23-2004, 08:55 PM
2b- Harris
Cf- Timo
Dh-Rowand
LF-gload
3b- Uribe
1b- Burke
Rf- Borchard
SS-Dransfeldt
C- davis

1- Stewart
2-Diaz
3-Garland
4-munoz
5th by commite

SomebodyToldMe
08-23-2004, 08:59 PM
2b- Harris
Cf- Timo
Dh-Rowand
LF-gload
3b- Uribe
1b- Burke
Rf- Borchard
SS-Dransfeldt
C- davis

1- Stewart
2-Diaz
3-Garland
4-munoz
5th by commite
If the Sox get wins with that, the rest of the team should be embarrassed.

I say let's do that. I could use some more entertainment.

Evman5
08-23-2004, 09:03 PM
2b- Harris
Cf- Timo
Dh-Rowand
LF-gload
3b- Uribe
1b- Burke
Rf- Borchard
SS-Dransfeldt
C- davis

1- Stewart
2-Diaz
3-Garland
4-munoz
5th by commite
Im sure Paulie, contending for a HR crown, would not be too pleased with that lineup! :smile:

But I agree with everything the perosn who started this thread said. Give Burly-mon, Freddy and the rest more wel... rest.

Paid Santiago
08-23-2004, 11:11 PM
wrong thread .... die cubbies!

Paid Santiago
08-23-2004, 11:15 PM
WRONG THREAD,


HOLLA BACK!


FALL BALL U'S A LAME!

OurBitchinMinny
08-23-2004, 11:22 PM
Agreed.

I think the best use for Harris is a Chone Figgins-type role. To that end I'd put him at third and in left for a a few games too.
Figgins has a vastly superior arm to harris.

HebrewHammer
08-24-2004, 12:09 AM
I was a fool to this point to hold out hope this team would do nothing but the usual let down at the end of the year.Yeah you were.

HebrewHammer
08-24-2004, 12:15 AM
Why does borchard deserve to play everyday over Ross Gload?

Gload has shown more promise in his left arm than borchard has in his entire fat stupid looking face.

Why waste at bats here...Gload is an old man, what you see is what you get. 30 is a little old for a prospect.

Mohoney
08-24-2004, 01:11 AM
The Sox have a lot of talent in the lowest tiers of their system, it will be interesting to see how these players are developed, and what type of time span they are given to develop.

I believe this wholeheartedly. I think that Kenny Williams has gotten significantly better in regards to drafting players. Guys like Brandon McCarthy, Gio Gonzalez, and Tyler Lumsden are a great start to rebuilding the pitching in our farm system. We have a real stud outfielder in Ryan Sweeney. Guys like Josh Fields and Donny Lucy have me excited, too.

Our low minors are better than I could have asked for. Our high minors are depleted because of trades, but moves like Koch for Valdez help rebuild the dyke, and I can see this team trading off the Carl Everetts (and hopefully Jon Garlands) that we have and replenishing some of our losses in the high minors.

MrRoboto83
08-24-2004, 02:10 AM
I'm sure we can not count on Konerko to have as good of a year next year, I'll bet he goes into another 1/2 season funky chicken and once again we will be mad:angry:


I really have a good feeling about Big Ben next year, something about these guys that get a second chance.

I still think Willie is a waste, I just don't ever see him panning out, if anything keep him for a pitch runner, if he ever figures out how to steal a base. I have never seen a lead off type hitter that can not hit home runs pop out more, it makes me so:angry:


Garland will forever be a 5th starter, we just need one more awesome pitcher and an entire bullpen.

Maggs could come as a bargin now, although is he still worth it?

jordan23ventura
08-24-2004, 02:18 AM
Why does borchard deserve to play everyday over Ross Gload?

Gload has shown more promise in his left arm than borchard has in his entire fat stupid looking face.

Why waste at bats here...
Well said. While I agree Borchard should finish out the season as a regular player somewhere, I'd like to see Ross move to 1B and Paulie go to DH, splitting it with Everett.

jordan23ventura
08-24-2004, 02:25 AM
There's nothing about Gload's performance or abilities that suggest he ever could be a productive, every day major leaguer. Borchard's minor league performance has (on rare occassions) suggested that he could be and according to scouts, he has the tools to be, a productive major leaguer - although his performance on the MLB level has, to date, certainly suggested otherwise. To me, the absolute best you can hope from Gload as an everyday player, would be Timo Perez type numbers but with less speed and worse defensively. Borchard may never even become that "good" - but he could be a lot better.
Gload is a bad defender? Where is this coming from? By the way, I'm sure you would have said the same thing about Rowand before this season. Look at Piazza and Buerhle, too. Low picks, because no one though they would be anything. The point is, you don't know until you play someone. Who knows, anyway? Gload may one day be a .300 hitter with above average defense who can hit 15-20 HR's. You never know. Give the guy a chance. He's started a few games this year and PH a lot, but never even one full half season even of MLB ball.

And also, Timo isn't fast! And Gload isn't an outfielder!

MrRoboto83
08-24-2004, 02:42 AM
I also agree that Gload could just be waiting to break out if given the chance. Plus with power from the left side that we need.

Soxzilla
08-24-2004, 11:48 AM
There's nothing about Gload's performance or abilities that suggest he ever could be a productive, every day major leaguer. Borchard's minor league performance has (on rare occassions) suggested that he could be and according to scouts, he has the tools to be, a productive major leaguer - although his performance on the MLB level has, to date, certainly suggested otherwise. To me, the absolute best you can hope from Gload as an everyday player, would be Timo Perez type numbers but with less speed and worse defensively. Borchard may never even become that "good" - but he could be a lot better.
I couldn't disagree more. Borchard has looked just awful up there in his at bats, nothing he has shown (Be it, his defense or offense) suggests he deserves to even be on this team right now. I've personally seen enough of this no talent clown.

Gload has played some pretty good 1B, heck he saved the game about a week ago with a web gem, of course I think Marte or whoever it was still blew it:/.

And with some regular at-bats, I think Gload could really bust a gload out there, heck, in his limited duty he's already shown more ability then Below Average Joe.

Everyone please quit with the hard on for Joe "Easter Island head lookin mo fo" Borchard, he is god awful. And hey, if one day he does become a DECENT hitter, than I'll eat crow. Until then....CHARLOTTE.