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View Full Version : End the Joe Bochard Experiment!


manuelsucks
08-23-2004, 01:20 PM
Ok, I will be the first to admit the Sox are out of contention, but seeing this guy try to hit a baseball is just embarrassing. Everytime he steps up to the plate it's a guaranteed out. He is not ready for Major League Baseball. I'm not positive on this, but from his stats, it didn't appear he was "tearing up" the minors. He needs to go back down. Let Timo or Gload play there. Just because he bats right handed doesn't mean he needs to be in the lineup. GET HIM OUT!!

habibharu
08-23-2004, 01:29 PM
Ok, I will be the first to admit the Sox are out of contention, but seeing this guy try to hit a baseball is just embarrassing. Everytime he steps up to the plate it's a guaranteed out. He is not ready for Major League Baseball. I'm not positive on this, but from his stats, it didn't appear he was "tearing up" the minors. He needs to go back down. Let Timo or Gload play there. Just because he bats right handed doesn't mean he needs to be in the lineup. GET HIM OUT!! why? we arent even in it anymore. he should be playing everyday getting four at bats

hold2dibber
08-23-2004, 01:37 PM
Ok, I will be the first to admit the Sox are out of contention, but seeing this guy try to hit a baseball is just embarrassing. Everytime he steps up to the plate it's a guaranteed out. He is not ready for Major League Baseball. I'm not positive on this, but from his stats, it didn't appear he was "tearing up" the minors. He needs to go back down. Let Timo or Gload play there. Just because he bats right handed doesn't mean he needs to be in the lineup. GET HIM OUT!!
I could not agree more. Borchard has been in the minors forever. Although he wasn't tearing it up in AAA this year, he was posting solid numbers. The Sox are way out of contention any way - time to see if Borchard can do anything with extended, regular MLB playing time. He doesn't have to be spectacular - if he can just generate a bit of power and a .750 OPS he'd be a useful player. Time to find out if he's got that in him by playing him every day.

fledgedrallycap
08-23-2004, 01:40 PM
You play him every single day to make sure this kid can't cut it. They invested some serious dough in this kid, before you cut him loose, let's make sure we know what we have.

gosox41
08-23-2004, 01:41 PM
Ok, I will be the first to admit the Sox are out of contention, but seeing this guy try to hit a baseball is just embarrassing. Everytime he steps up to the plate it's a guaranteed out. He is not ready for Major League Baseball. I'm not positive on this, but from his stats, it didn't appear he was "tearing up" the minors. He needs to go back down. Let Timo or Gload play there. Just because he bats right handed doesn't mean he needs to be in the lineup. GET HIM OUT!!
I say let him play on a consistent basis. While 40 games is not enough of a sample size to judge a player, KW should hopefully have some idea of what he can and can't do, his work ethic, any improvements being made etc.


Let's see what the great LTP can do. I've been in his corner so far and hope he develops into a 2004 version of Aaron Rowand let alone the ridiculous Mickey Mantle comaprisons.

And if Borchard does flop (not this season but over the next few years) I'd love to see what the Friends of Kenny (FOK) come up with to support him.:rolleyes:



Bob

maurice
08-23-2004, 01:52 PM
Seeing as the season is over, Borchard, Harris, Uribe, and Crede should play every day (and Valentin, Alomar, and Everett should be placed on waivers for the purpose of trading them). You have nothing to lose at this point in the season. It's important to learn whether Uribe and Harris can keep their AVE in the .260-range (and whether Borchard and Crede will stay in the .160-.230 range).

Along the same lines, they might as well give Cotts, Adkins, Stewart, Munoz, and Diaz a long look (mostly in relief) down the stretch, and let Marte and Takatsu take it easy.

kittle42
08-23-2004, 01:52 PM
He disgusts me, but you have to let him play. Wasn't Ventura 0-for-forever when he came up?

pinwheels3530
08-23-2004, 01:53 PM
I am not defending Joe, but wasn't this the same fan base that said Aaron Rowand would never be a major league centerfielder. It took Aaron 3 yrs to get to where he is at and the opportunity to play. We don't have three years to wait for Joe, but I am not going to throw him in the trash after less than half a season.:rolleyes:

habibharu
08-23-2004, 01:55 PM
And if Borchard does flop (not this season but over the next few years) I'd love to see what the Friends of Kenny (FOK) come up with to support him.:rolleyes:



Bob me too. although i like to call them KAKs, kennys ass kissers

Baby Fisk
08-23-2004, 02:04 PM
me too. although i like to call them KAKs, kennys ass kissersYuck. Is the whole freakin month of September going to be all about fighting about Kenny? :mad: I liked it better when people obsessed over the Cubs.

gosox41
08-23-2004, 02:05 PM
me too. although i like to call them KAKs, kennys ass kissers
I like that one too. And of course most of these KAK's and FOK's are the same one's who call me and others FOBB.

I imagine the A's won't make the playoffs at some point under Beane's tenure. But the question is will the Sox ever make the playoffs under Williams tenure?


Bob

duke of dorwood
08-23-2004, 02:05 PM
Joe should play EVERY DAY now. He needs confidence-and Timo or Gload are not going to be your starters next year anyway.


Quit screwing with his swing and see if the natural ability is there. I still believe it is.

PaulDrake
08-23-2004, 02:45 PM
You play him every single day to make sure this kid can't cut it. They invested some serious dough in this kid, before you cut him loose, let's make sure we know what we have. How much more do you need to see before you "know what we have."?

fledgedrallycap
08-23-2004, 02:51 PM
How much more do you need to see before you "know what we have."?
If you feel you've seen enough, that's fine. I'm not there yet, this kid really hasn't had a good oppurtunity to break into the big's. Playing in a divisional race, filling in for a perenial all-star, big-name prospect - it's a ton of pressure. Look at what Robin did when he was first called up.

We have nothing else to play for at this point, let him patrol RF at Comiskey so we can be sure what this guy can or cannot do.

SoxPAguy
08-23-2004, 02:54 PM
Ok, I will be the first to admit the Sox are out of contention, but seeing this guy try to hit a baseball is just embarrassing. Everytime he steps up to the plate it's a guaranteed out. He is not ready for Major League Baseball. I'm not positive on this, but from his stats, it didn't appear he was "tearing up" the minors. He needs to go back down. Let Timo or Gload play there. Just because he bats right handed doesn't mean he needs to be in the lineup. GET HIM OUT!!
At some point we all need to relax from our lets win now phase and beleive in player development. The only teams that can go from nothing to winning it all the ones with high payrolls who can buy free agents and such. Everyone else has to develop its low cost talent. That is what the sox need to do. How do you think the twins got where they are right now. They developed their talent in the majors and AAA for years while they had sub-par seasons in the late 90's. The sox might not need to concede future years for it, but at least when we know we are not in it we should be playing our future. Its time to put Borchard, Crede, Uribre and Harris in there everyday to see just what kind of players they will be on a consistent basis, you have nothing to lose at this point.

PaulDrake
08-23-2004, 02:56 PM
If you feel you've seen enough, that's fine. I'm not there yet, this kid really hasn't had a good oppurtunity to break into the big's. Playing in a divisional race, filling in for a perenial all-star, big-name prospect - it's a ton of pressure. Look at what Robin did when he was first called up.

We have nothing else to play for at this point, let him patrol RF at Comiskey so we can be sure what this guy can or cannot do. Fair enough. Hope you're right and I'm wrong.

Flight #24
08-23-2004, 03:01 PM
How much more do you need to see before you "know what we have."?
Yeah, his 75ABs tell the story. I mean just look at what you can learn from that level of experience?

Player A: first 413 ABs, batted .223 with a .330 OBP.
Player B: first 195 ABs, batted .213 with a .278 OBP
Player C: first 53 ABs, batted .170 with a .200OBP
Player D: first 93 Abs batted .237 with a .327OBP

I'll bet the Pirates, Dodgers, Indians, & Astros are wishing they'd given up on those chumps earlier: Bonds, Beltre, M-Ram, Berkman (respectively A-D).

You're against given Borchard more of a shot right now because.....you think it's time to begin the "Ross Gload Era"?

JDP
08-23-2004, 03:02 PM
He disgusts me, but you have to let him play. Wasn't Ventura 0-for-forever when he came up?
He was 8-for-45 in the '89 season (whopping .178 BA), but at least Ventura's BB/KK [8/6 btw] was solid and although Ventura only hit .249 his first 'full' season, his BB/K [55/53] again, were great.

Joe isn't good enough to even be compared to a young Ventura; more like Rob Deer.

OurBitchinMinny
08-23-2004, 03:20 PM
I am not defending Joe, but wasn't this the same fan base that said Aaron Rowand would never be a major league centerfielder. It took Aaron 3 yrs to get to where he is at and the opportunity to play. We don't have three years to wait for Joe, but I am not going to throw him in the trash after less than half a season.:rolleyes:
rowand still has to prove it next year. He was awful for two years. If he does it next year I will get on his bandwagon

California Sox
08-23-2004, 03:23 PM
I don't believe in Borchard as far as I could throw him, but his history is he's a much better hitter LH. I think now that everyone has to admit they are out of contention (in reality the Twins sweep ended the season), it is time to let Borchard play everyday and see if he might show us something. The fact is Maggs will not be back next year and it's possible they will not keep Everrett. Borchard has a window of opportunity here to show what he can do. If he shows a glimmer, good. If he doesn't, then the Sox are going to have to consider other options inside and outside the organization.

pinwheels3530
08-23-2004, 03:24 PM
rowand still has to prove it next year. He was awful for two years. If he does it next year I will get on his bandwagon
He wasn't awful for two years he just wasn't given enough playing time with Lofton & Everrett coming to play centerfield. My point is sometimes it takes time to get where you want to be.

PaulDrake
08-23-2004, 03:41 PM
Yeah, his 75ABs tell the story. I mean just look at what you can learn from that level of experience?

Player A: first 413 ABs, batted .223 with a .330 OBP.
Player B: first 195 ABs, batted .213 with a .278 OBP
Player C: first 53 ABs, batted .170 with a .200OBP
Player D: first 93 Abs batted .237 with a .327OBP

I'll bet the Pirates, Dodgers, Indians, & Astros are wishing they'd given up on those chumps earlier: Bonds, Beltre, M-Ram, Berkman (respectively A-D).

You're against given Borchard more of a shot right now because.....you think it's time to begin the "Ross Gload Era"? If Borchard even gives a pale imitation of the players you listed I'll be more than a little surprised. Actually Joe now has 160 ABs in MLB with a .181 AVG and I believe 12 RBI's to show for it. He looks overmatched on almost every AB and his swing in its current form is hopeless. He shows no signs of even attempting to adjust. This speaks volumes about how the Sox develop (pun intended) our minor leaguers. Again I'll be shocked if Joe turns out to be next Lance Berkman, let alone a hitter the caliber of Manny Ramirez. The Sox made a five million dollar mistake. It happens. Baseball is perhaps the most diffficult of the major four professional sports to predict who will or won't make the big time. Of course I'm not anxious to see the "Ross Gload era" begin. I'd just like to see the Sox start bringing up some MLB ready players like the Twins have done the last few years. Apparently so many posters are hooked on Borchards alleged "potential". I say it just ain't there and it's obvious with every painful AB. However just like I told fledgerallycap, if I'm wrong great. I'll gladly pile on my plate a great big serving of crow.

hold2dibber
08-23-2004, 03:46 PM
He was 8-for-45 in the '89 season (whopping .178 BA), but at least Ventura's BB/KK [8/6 btw] was solid and although Ventura only hit .249 his first 'full' season, his BB/K [55/53] again, were great.

Joe isn't good enough to even be compared to a young Ventura; more like Rob Deer.
At this point, I'd be thrilled if he were to become as "good" as Rob Deer: http://www.baseballreference.com/d/deerro01.shtml.

JDP
08-23-2004, 03:49 PM
At this point, I'd be thrilled if he were to become as "good" as Rob Deer: http://www.baseballreference.com/d/deerro01.shtml.
If Deer wasn't playing in the 80s-era ball [see: homeruns+low averages+many Ks], I have a feeling he'd have been bagging groceries a lot sooner.

Man Soo Lee
08-23-2004, 04:14 PM
I'll bet the Pirates, Dodgers, Indians, & Astros are wishing they'd given up on those chumps earlier: Bonds, Beltre, M-Ram, Berkman (respectively A-D). Bonds was in the majors at 22 after hitting .311/.435/.527 in a couple of months of AAA.

Beltre was "19" and had just hit .321/.411/.581 in a half season at AA.

Ramirez was 21 and had put up a 1.000+ OPS between AA and AAA.

Berkman was 23 and hit .323/.419/.518 at AAA.

There's no reason not to play Borchard at this point, but I'm not expecting anything.

Flight #24
08-23-2004, 04:36 PM
If Borchard even gives a pale imitation of the players you listed I'll be more than a little surprised. Actually Joe now has 160 ABs in MLB with a .181 AVG and I believe 12 RBI's to show for it. He looks overmatched on almost every AB and his swing in its current form is hopeless. He shows no signs of even attempting to adjust. This speaks volumes about how the Sox develop (pun intended) our minor leaguers. Again I'll be shocked if Joe turns out to be next Lance Berkman, let alone a hitter the caliber of Manny Ramirez. The Sox made a five million dollar mistake. It happens. Baseball is perhaps the most diffficult of the major four professional sports to predict who will or won't make the big time. Of course I'm not anxious to see the "Ross Gload era" begin. I'd just like to see the Sox start bringing up some MLB ready players like the Twins have done the last few years. Apparently so many posters are hooked on Borchards alleged "potential". I say it just ain't there and it's obvious with every painful AB. However just like I told fledgerallycap, if I'm wrong great. I'll gladly pile on my plate a great big serving of crow.
The point is not that I think Borchard's the second coming of Manny Ramirez, it's that 75 ABs is waaaaaay to early to say you know what a guy's MLB career is going to be like. Even 180 is small, especially when it's spread out over a few years.

As for him not making adjustments, today's Cubune has differing evidence:
Borchard continues to work as hard as any Sox hitter, taking hours of extra swings. He believes changes, most notably cutting down on his stroke, are helping.
Now obviously the results will be what tells the tale, but you imply that he's not adjusting and changing things to get it going, which apparently is not true.

Parrothead
08-23-2004, 07:38 PM
Ok, I will be the first to admit the Sox are out of contention, but seeing this guy try to hit a baseball is just embarrassing. Everytime he steps up to the plate it's a guaranteed out. He is not ready for Major League Baseball. I'm not positive on this, but from his stats, it didn't appear he was "tearing up" the minors. He needs to go back down. Let Timo or Gload play there. Just because he bats right handed doesn't mean he needs to be in the lineup. GET HIM OUT!!
I am totally with you on this. If Joe continues to play I will not watch or go to anymore games. I have had it with his incompetence.:angry: He is a good player besides his hitting, fielding and baserunning abilities.

Parrothead
08-23-2004, 07:41 PM
Joe should play EVERY DAY now. He needs confidence-and Timo or Gload are not going to be your starters next year anyway.


Quit screwing with his swing and see if the natural ability is there. I still believe it is.
He needs to produce. Joe has had his chance. It is painfully obvious that he just plain sucks.