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lowesox
08-23-2004, 11:44 AM
If KW is smart, he'll look to make a few deals before the Waiver deadline comes up. We've got a few guys we might have a good market for. The two I would seriously look to trade are Valentin and Takatsu. a) Valentin because he's gone anyway and b) Takatsu because his value is high right now and I don't think he will be nearly as good next year.

If we could get anything at all for Politte and/or Alomar (either of the brothers) I'd move them too.

Kenny needs to adapt. This team isn't going to win anything - now's the time to start the rebuilding process.

Tekijawa
08-23-2004, 11:56 AM
[QUOTE=lowesox]If KW is smart, he'll look to make a few deals before the Waiver deadline comes up. We've got a few guys we might have a good market for. The two I would seriously look to trade are Valentin and Takatsu.... b) Takatsu because his value is high right now and I don't think he will be nearly as good next year.
QUOTE]

outside of Rowand Takatsu has been the one other bright spot, not only that but he's marketable too... I don't know if you wacthed any of the Games this weekend, but when one of the best hitters in the game, Manny Ramirez, can't figure out how to hit you then you're a little more than Lucky! Not to mention that you really never get any real value in Waiver trades... I'm up for trading about 50% of the rest of the team, but I'm pretty sure were done.

santo=dorf
08-23-2004, 12:25 PM
IIRC, Shingo has a no-trade clause that allows him to be traded to only 8 teams. He is very, very marketable.

SoxxoS
08-23-2004, 12:27 PM
I like the sig, santo...

To give Hawk his props, I remember distinctly when they were doing on of their "Down on the Farm" segments that he said "watch this kid Rowand, he is going to be a big-time player."

Got to give credit were credit is due, there. I definitely didn't see Rowand being a 900 + OPS guy.

santo=dorf
08-23-2004, 12:31 PM
I like the sig, santo...

To give Hawk his props, I remember distinctly when they were doing on of their "Down on the Farm" segments that he said "watch this kid Rowand, he is going to be a big-time player."

Got to give credit were credit is due, there. I definitely didn't see Rowand being a 900 + OPS guy.


It shows what happens when you start playing favorites. That was his answer at SoxFest when someone asked him who his favorite sox player was. A more respectable answer would've been;

:hawk
"I enjoyed watching Garland pitch every fifth day, and I'll tell you what fiesty, It wouldn't surprise me if he won 18 games this year."

hold2dibber
08-23-2004, 12:34 PM
I like the sig, santo...

To give Hawk his props, I remember distinctly when they were doing on of their "Down on the Farm" segments that he said "watch this kid Rowand, he is going to be a big-time player."

Got to give credit were credit is due, there. I definitely didn't see Rowand being a 900 + OPS guy.
I hope you're right - I have to admit he's greatly exceeded my expectations this year and I don't want to underestimate him again .... but .... I don't think he's a .900+ OPS guy unless he learns to take a walk. Before this year, I thought that if give a chance to play full time, he'd hit .250/15/70 with an OPS around .750. Now I think as a full time player, he's probably a .285/24/85 guy with an OPS in the .825 to .850 range - which is pretty damn good.

gosox41
08-23-2004, 12:44 PM
If KW is smart, he'll look to make a few deals before the Waiver deadline comes up. We've got a few guys we might have a good market for. The two I would seriously look to trade are Valentin and Takatsu. a) Valentin because he's gone anyway and b) Takatsu because his value is high right now and I don't think he will be nearly as good next year.

If we could get anything at all for Politte and/or Alomar (either of the brothers) I'd move them too.

Kenny needs to adapt. This team isn't going to win anything - now's the time to start the rebuilding process.

Normally I'd stop you at the first sentence of your post. But it is very hard to make waiver wire deals. I would be more then thrilled to dump any Alomar or Everett just to get them out of here. And if someone wows the Sox with an offer for a PK or LEe I'd do it. But it's unlikely a deal like that would happen now, more likely to durign the off season.


Bob

infohawk
08-23-2004, 01:59 PM
IIRC, Shingo has a no-trade clause that allows him to be traded to only 8 teams. He is very, very marketable.I would definitely hold on to Shingo considering the problems the Sox have had closing games over the past three years. He has been an effective closer and provides one less offseason problem to address. Besides, the Sox probably wouldn't get much for him as he only has a one-year contract and there is just over a month left in the season. Also, Shingo is one of those players that get everyone jazzed up when he comes into the game. The gong and "Shingotime" display could become a fixture for fans.

SoxPAguy
08-23-2004, 02:09 PM
If KW is smart, he'll look to make a few deals before the Waiver deadline comes up. We've got a few guys we might have a good market for. The two I would seriously look to trade are Valentin and Takatsu. a) Valentin because he's gone anyway and b) Takatsu because his value is high right now and I don't think he will be nearly as good next year.

If we could get anything at all for Politte and/or Alomar (either of the brothers) I'd move them too.

Kenny needs to adapt. This team isn't going to win anything - now's the time to start the rebuilding process.
I totally agree i really think KW needs to kill it all right here. Get valentin/alomars/everett out of here through waivers. Get any young talent you can for them now. Let Uribe, Harris, Borchard, Crede play everyday and see if there is a change since they know the position is all theirs. We need to find out right now if willie and Juan and keep their avgs above 260 for good. We need to see right now if crede is the answer and if Borchard can hit at all. This is the best time to do this becuase then KW can make the appropriate moves in the offseason.

OurBitchinMinny
08-23-2004, 02:22 PM
If KW is smart, he'll look to make a few deals before the Waiver deadline comes up. We've got a few guys we might have a good market for. The two I would seriously look to trade are Valentin and Takatsu. a) Valentin because he's gone anyway and b) Takatsu because his value is high right now and I don't think he will be nearly as good next year.

If we could get anything at all for Politte and/or Alomar (either of the brothers) I'd move them too.

Kenny needs to adapt. This team isn't going to win anything - now's the time to start the rebuilding process.
It may sound dumb to trade takatsu since he is the only decent pitcher in our pen, but he is 35-36 years old and his value will probably never be higher. Lets not forget these asian pitchers get figured out in their second or third year

OurBitchinMinny
08-23-2004, 02:24 PM
Normally I'd stop you at the first sentence of your post. But it is very hard to make waiver wire deals. I would be more then thrilled to dump any Alomar or Everett just to get them out of here. And if someone wows the Sox with an offer for a PK or LEe I'd do it. But it's unlikely a deal like that would happen now, more likely to durign the off season.


Bob
everett can be effective and a quality player for the sox next year if he gets healthy this offseason. Id hang onto him. I think he will be relatively cheap.

gosox41
08-23-2004, 03:07 PM
everett can be effective and a quality player for the sox next year if he gets healthy this offseason. Id hang onto him. I think he will be relatively cheap.
I don't like him much this time around. Maybe I'm overanalyzing, but he seems to have lost some intensity.

Anyway I think he costs $4.5 mill next year.


Bob

thezeker
08-23-2004, 03:44 PM
It may sound dumb to trade takatsu since he is the only decent pitcher in our pen, but he is 35-36 years old and his value will probably never be higher. Lets not forget these asian pitchers get figured out in their second or third yearIt's not the smartest statement I've ever heard on this board. We let one closer get away (Foulke) and we were in a world of hurt for a year and a half.

If we get the kind of team Ozzie is looking for next year there should be a lot more tight games where a good closer will be needed. I truly believe Takatsu fills that bill. With his 88 mph fastball and his different changes of speed I don't think they will be able to catch on to him. When he throws strikes and stays ahead of the hitters he is awesome. .

We have absolutely no one else who can pitch in the 8th inning let alone the 9th. To trade him would be a mistake of monstrous proportions!!!!!

oldcomiskey
08-23-2004, 03:59 PM
I totally agree i really think KW needs to kill it all right here. Get valentin/alomars/everett out of here through waivers. Get any young talent you can for them now. Let Uribe, Harris, Borchard, Crede play everyday and see if there is a change since they know the position is all theirs. We need to find out right now if willie and Juan and keep their avgs above 260 for good. We need to see right now if crede is the answer and if Borchard can hit at all. This is the best time to do this becuase then KW can make the appropriate moves in the offseason.
You know its amazing to me that people think so highly of uribe and less of valentin---you take April and May away from Juan and hes hitting about where Jose is ---with less power and less heart

Mickster
08-23-2004, 04:10 PM
You know its amazing to me that people think so highly of uribe and less of valentin---you take April and May away from Juan and hes hitting about where Jose is ---with less power and less heart.....and for much less money! :wink:

Deadguy
08-23-2004, 04:18 PM
It may sound dumb to trade takatsu since he is the only decent pitcher in our pen, but he is 35-36 years old and his value will probably never be higher. Lets not forget these asian pitchers get figured out in their second or third year
Are you delusional enough to believe that you possess more insight than other baseball organizations? Other teams realize the above, and aren't going to give up much for Shingo.

Right now it's pointless to discuss the trade of someone like Shingo. If he is a bust, so be it. He's low cost, and can easilly be released with his remaining salary eaten. Best case scenario, he's a fan favorite who provides solid production out of the pen for a very affordable cost.

The guy to move now is Konerko. A guy who is having a career year, will make 8.75 million dollars next season, and whose longterm future in terms of salary demands and need beyond 2005 are a gigantic question mark. Teams will drool over his homerun numbers and express a demand for GIDPK, in the same way that Arizona overpaid for the services of Sexson.

balke
08-23-2004, 05:45 PM
Are you delusional enough to believe that you possess more insight than other baseball organizations? Other teams realize the above, and aren't going to give up much for Shingo.

Right now it's pointless to discuss the trade of someone like Shingo. If he is a bust, so be it. He's low cost, and can easilly be released with his remaining salary eaten. Best case scenario, he's a fan favorite who provides solid production out of the pen for a very affordable cost.

The guy to move now is Konerko. A guy who is having a career year, will make 8.75 million dollars next season, and whose longterm future in terms of salary demands and need beyond 2005 are a gigantic question mark. Teams will drool over his homerun numbers and express a demand for GIDPK, in the same way that Arizona overpaid for the services of Sexson.Totally agree. Let's remember what kind of team we want next season, A pitching team. Shingo is the only bullpen guy we have worth a crap. Even Marte is getting lit up consistantly now. We are going to build on this bullpen and Pitching staff, keep Takatsu around.

I would say we could probably deal Konerko to the A's, but I don't know how we could pry any pitching from them heading to the Playoffs. Maybe they can work out a deal, where the sox get some draft picks, or a player in the offseason. He'd really help their chances in the playoffs IMO. That would also give me an american league team to root for in the playoffs, heh.

Iguana775
08-23-2004, 05:52 PM
outside of Rowand Takatsu .
who is Rowan Takatsu? the love-child of Aaron and Shingo?

DVsoxfan
08-23-2004, 06:18 PM
The guy to move now is Konerko. A guy who is having a career year, will make 8.75 million dollars next season, and whose longterm future in terms of salary demands and need beyond 2005 are a gigantic question mark. Teams will drool over his homerun numbers and express a demand for GIDPK, in the same way that Arizona overpaid for the services of Sexson.We should trade PK in the offseason, we can get a lot more for him then, then we can now.

lowesox
08-23-2004, 08:10 PM
Totally agree. Let's remember what kind of team we want next season, A pitching team. Shingo is the only bullpen guy we have worth a crap. Even Marte is getting lit up consistantly now. We are going to build on this bullpen and Pitching staff, keep Takatsu around.
The number one problem with White Sox fans is they want to keep players when their values are high and trade them when their values are low. If this team is going to get better it's going to be because we are willing to deal the guys are teams are salivating for.

owensmouth
08-24-2004, 02:34 AM
The number one problem with White Sox fans is they want to keep players when their values are high and trade them when their values are low. If this team is going to get better it's going to be because we are willing to deal the guys are teams are salivating for.
Okay, we trade Buehrle, Freddie and Rowand...now what??? Noone is salivating for the rest.

balke
08-24-2004, 09:13 AM
Okay, we trade Buehrle, Freddie and Rowand...now what??? Noone is salivating for the rest.

I think teams will bite on Konerko's HR #'s. Once again, I love Paulie, if he comes back that's great, but look at what the Cardinals did by trading one big name off of thier hit squad last season. They got a bullpen, and are heading the the series. Sox could probably do that if they get Maggs back cheap, and trade for some pitching. IT could seriously only take one guy, we had a great team when healthy

infohawk
08-24-2004, 10:11 AM
I think teams will bite on Konerko's HR #'s. Once again, I love Paulie, if he comes back that's great, but look at what the Cardinals did by trading one big name off of thier hit squad last season. They got a bullpen, and are heading the the series. Sox could probably do that if they get Maggs back cheap, and trade for some pitching. IT could seriously only take one guy, we had a great team when healthy
I wonder if the Dodgers would be interested in a "Konerko for Odalis Perez and/or pitching prospects" trade. I'm sure several teams may be interested. The more the better. The Sox could then leverage the best trade possible. I only bring the Dodgers up because a hitting-for-pitching trade between the teams was talked about so much last winter. I'm not suggesting that the Sox could only get one player for PK. I just know that the Dodgers and Sox appeared to be potential trading partners in the past and Evans, who seemed very reluctant to part with any pitching prospects, is no longer the Dodger's GM. Of course, such a deal would depend on whether or not the Dodgers need a first baseman. A rotation of Buerhle, Garcia, Contreras and Perez would be pretty formidable.

lowesox
08-24-2004, 11:02 AM
Okay, we trade Buehrle, Freddie and Rowand...now what??? Noone is salivating for the rest.
Lee and Takatsu also have good value. Then if guys like Garland, Everett, Borchard, Harris and Marte get hot you move them too.

Then sign FA's to one-year deals and trade them at the deadline next year. It's going to be a rough few years, but that's the position KW and Co. have put us in.

However, if we rebuild properly we'll be in a positive to be good for a long time.

samram
08-24-2004, 11:09 AM
I wonder if the Dodgers would be interested in a "Konerko for Odalis Perez and/or pitching prospects" trade. I'm sure several teams may be interested. The more the better. The Sox could then leverage the best trade possible. I only bring the Dodgers up because a hitting-for-pitching trade between the teams was talked about so much last winter. I'm not suggesting that the Sox could only get one player for PK. I just know that the Dodgers and Sox appeared to be potential trading partners in the past and Evans, who seemed very reluctant to part with any pitching prospects, is no longer the Dodger's GM. Of course, such a deal would depend on whether or not the Dodgers need a first baseman. A rotation of Buerhle, Garcia, Contreras and Perez would be pretty formidable.
Perez is a FA, so the Sox don't even have to give up Paulie to get him. I have no problem with your premise, though, of trading Paulie to strengthen the pitching, particularly the bullpen.