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View Full Version : YOUR OF and SP's next year


CerberusWG
10-03-2001, 03:03 PM
Ok, I'm bored, so what is YOUR 2002 White Sox Outfield and Starting Pitchers?

here are mine :

SP:

Buehrle
Parque
Glover
Garland
Fogg/K Wells

OF

RF:Maggs
CF:Rowand
LF:Lee

I would like to see Borchard come in and play Right, while Maggs moves to left though. BTW, IMO we need D Wells next year. Our starting rotation will need a guy like him to tell them the trucks of the trade

Randar68
10-03-2001, 03:19 PM
here are mine :

SP:

D Wells
Buehrle
Glover
Garland
Wright/Rauch

OF:

RF:Maggs
CF:Rowand/Borchard
LF:Lee/Rowand

Kip Wells, Fogg, and Parque will all open in the bullpen.

The Spring Training Battles here will be for the 5th starters spot, as I think Buehrle, Garland, and Glover are all in there for sure, and a veteran of some kind will be brought in, hopefully Wells. Wright, Rauch, Guerrier, Wells, and Lowe will probably all be thrown in there in an all out competition. I still think, if they all perform equally, that Rauch will be given the job.

In the OF, Borchard, I think, depending on his AFL and Spring Training performances, will be the starting CF'er with Rowand as the 4th OF'er.

Moses_Scurry
10-03-2001, 03:49 PM
SP:
Johnson
Clemens
Schilling
Martinez
Beuhrle

OF:
Bonds
Griffey
Magglio

OfficerKarkovice
10-03-2001, 03:55 PM
SP:

D Wells
Buehrle
Garland
Glover
Rausch

OF:

Lee
Borchard
Maggs
4th: Rowand

GASHWOUND
10-03-2001, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
Ok, I'm bored, so what is YOUR 2002 White Sox Outfield and Starting Pitchers?

here are mine :

SP:

Buehrle
Parque
Glover
Garland
Fogg/K Wells

OF

RF:Maggs
CF:Rowand
LF:Lee

I would like to see Borchard come in and play Right, while Maggs moves to left though. BTW, IMO we need D Wells next year. Our starting rotation will need a guy like him to tell them the trucks of the trade

Bored! You mean there's nothing to do out in Valpo!!! Your kidding? Well, you can clean your room, do some homework, clean the garage, mow the lawn, all that kind of stuff.(just kidding)

My rotation is iffy riht now. But I'll give it a roll anywho

Buehrle
S.Lowe
TBA
Glover
Garland

Outfield
RF-Mags
CF-Singleton
LF-Lee
as it should be till Joe.B is ready

Everybody keeps leaving out Sean lowe in the rotation, but he's perfect. A veteran and he's....good. I would feel more comfortable with Lowe out there than Josh Fogg or Kip(can't get anyone out)Wells.
Wouldn't you?

Fogg is more reliable in the pen. His overall #'s weren't that great in the minors starting. He has only 2 solid pitches(fastball-Curveball) so that would be mre suited for the pen.

Daver
10-03-2001, 05:46 PM
For what it is worth,

Buerhle
D.Wells
Biddle
Glover
Garland




And in the OF

Rowand LF
Singleton CF
Ordonez RF

Iguana775
10-03-2001, 06:09 PM
i'll play.....


rotation.....

Burly
D.Wells
Glover
Garland
Lowe

outfield

RF-Borchard
CF-Rowand
LF-Maggs

if i had my way, i'd try to trade lee for a top, and i mean TOP, catcher/catcher prospect/SP. JMO

beausox
10-03-2001, 06:25 PM
We got to go young, BUT TALENTED, no more wasting time.

Rotation:

Buerhle
K. Wells
D. Wright
J. Garland
Glover/Rauch

I think Parque will be in the pen (as an improvement over Embree). David Wells should be brought back, but only if he will take an incentive based contract. I don't think Rauch will be ready to start the season with the big club, but once he is ready, Glover should move back to the pen, I think thats where his future is.

OF:

RF-Ordonez
CF-Rowand
LF-Lee

Defensively that kinda scares me. Julio Ramirez should stick as a back-up and so we can see if he's worth keeping on the forty man, Singleton should be traded. Borchard will be calle dup in September. I also think you have to give Leifer a few starts in the corner positions and just close your eyes everytime a ball is hit his way.

stefaninsane
10-03-2001, 07:42 PM
SP:
Buehrle
D. Wells
Garland
K. Wells
Glover

OF:
C. Lee
Rowand
Ordonez

C; CJ

Chisox_cali
10-03-2001, 08:23 PM
D.Wells
Buehrle
Glover
Garland
Up for Grabs/Rauch mid-season

RF Borchard
CF Rowand
LF Maggs

Randar68
10-03-2001, 11:17 PM
For what it is worth,

Buerhle
D.Wells
Biddle
Glover
Garland

Daver, I have to agree with you. However, the 3-4 other guys having similar surgeries will have had 3-4 months more to rehab and heal, if not more. With the crowded situation, I just don't see him being a factor in Spring Training, already only 4 months away! I think they'll take their time and have him do quite a bit of work in AAA before rejoining the team. I also think that Rauch is a guy who will bring fans to the park, especially if he succeeds quickly, to see him pitch. He's been hyped, and he'll have had 10 months since his surgery by opening day. Between a healthy Kip, Wright, and Rauch, I don't see a less-than 100% Biddle beating any of them out.

If my money was on anyone, it would have to be Rauch, with Wright a close second. Everyday, it looks like Kip is buying himself more time in the pen...

Randar68
10-03-2001, 11:20 PM
if i had my way, i'd try to trade lee for a top, and i mean TOP, catcher/catcher prospect/SP. JMO

Hey, IMO, anyone os tradeable, but this better be a real damn good player(s) coming back, IMO, and there are very few catchers worth giving up Carlos for straight-up...we don't need pitching unless it's an established ace...IMO.

FarWestChicago
10-03-2001, 11:55 PM
Hey, IMO, anyone os tradeable, but this better be a real damn good player(s) coming back, IMO, and there are very few catchers worth giving up Carlos for straight-up... I agree with you, Randar. I am one of the few people who don't seem to have given up on Caballo. He is going to be a monster hitter. He's hit before, and he will again.

Randar68
10-04-2001, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I agree with you, Randar. I am one of the few people who don't seem to have given up on Caballo. He is going to be a monster hitter. He's hit before, and he will again.

Yeah, The guy hit ~.310 with 15 plus HR's before the All-Star break and he was the best thing since sliced bread, he carried this team when Maggs, Konerko, and everyone else were hitting around .250. He has taken his troubles in the field to the plate with him. He has been doing what PK has been doing for the past few weeks, but he's been doing it for 2+ months. They stopped using RF when that was all that was being given to him. He seems to have gotten less selective at the plate and swinging for the HR. Last season and the start of this, if they pitched him away, he went to RF, if the pitched him over the middle of the plate in, he pulled it. He doesn't seem as balanced or as focused at the plate, and many times clearly is lacking either a plan or the discipline to follow one at the plate. Hopefully these are things Frank's presence and a full spring training and offseason working on it can correct. I still think he'll be a .315-35-110 hitter in the near future...and it's been nice to see him make a few good grabs out in left these last couple weeks.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-04-2001, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yeah, The guy hit ~.310 with 15 plus HR's before the All-Star break and he was the best thing since sliced bread, he carried this team when Maggs, Konerko, and everyone else were hitting around .250. He has taken his troubles in the field to the plate with him. He has been doing what PK has been doing for the past few weeks, but he's been doing it for 2+ months. They stopped using RF when that was all that was being given to him. He seems to have gotten less selective at the plate and swinging for the HR. Last season and the start of this, if they pitched him away, he went to RF, if the pitched him over the middle of the plate in, he pulled it. He doesn't seem as balanced or as focused at the plate, and many times clearly is lacking either a plan or the discipline to follow one at the plate. Hopefully these are things Frank's presence and a full spring training and offseason working on it can correct. I still think he'll be a .315-35-110 hitter in the near future...and it's been nice to see him make a few good grabs out in left these last couple weeks.

Who else thinks Carlos Lee has the most upside of any of our young hitters? He gets my vote.

Randar68
10-04-2001, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Who else thinks Carlos Lee has the most upside of any of our young hitters? He gets my vote.

Can't argue with that, unless you want to include Borchard...

Maggs hasn't improved over the last 3 years.....

Paulwny
10-04-2001, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Who else thinks Carlos Lee has the most upside of any of our young hitters? He gets my vote.

He could be the next Manny, potential is unlimited.

Soxboyrob
10-04-2001, 10:22 AM
I can't help but think he's full of upside, but how long do you wait? This is his third full year and he's appeared to be about the same player each year. That said, he gives us better than average offense for a left fielder.

What's surprised me is that I thought he'd develop a bit more of a HR stroke by now. Number one on his list should be learning to be a bit more patient at the plate and learning the strike zone a little better. Doing those two things would ultimately help him reach his hitting potential. In the meantime, a few more homers and less errors would be nice.

FarWestChicago
10-04-2001, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I still think he'll be a .315-35-110 hitter in the near future...and it's been nice to see him make a few good grabs out in left these last couple weeks. We agree once again.

FarWestChicago
10-04-2001, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Who else thinks Carlos Lee has the most upside of any of our young hitters? He gets my vote. Count me in.

LongDistanceFan
10-04-2001, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Count me in. i say its borchard.

OfficerKarkovice
10-04-2001, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
i say its borchard.

Borchard hasnt even had 1 major league at-bat...Carlos has shown he has the ability to be a great major league hitter.

El Caballo gets my vote

LongDistanceFan
10-04-2001, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice


Borchard hasnt even had 1 major league at-bat...Carlos has shown he has the ability to be a great major league hitter.

El Caballo gets my vote there was no stipulation on major league level or not, was there?

FarWestChicago
10-04-2001, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
there was no stipulation on major league level or not, was there? If major league experience is required, what is your opinion.

LongDistanceFan
10-04-2001, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
If major league experience is required, what is your opinion. that is close, with that in mind it would either be mags or lee, lee for avg and occansional power, mags with power and avg, with the avg not as good as lets say lee. I will take mags, b/c of the power.

Dadawg_77
10-04-2001, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Moses_Scurry
SP:
Johnson
Clemens
Schilling
Martinez
Beuhrle

OF:
Bonds
Griffey
Magglio

Damn somebody already beat me to the smartass reply. :)

But Bonds is a UFA, mhmmmmmm...... Trade Lee for a pitchers and sign Bonds.....Berry Bonds winning his first ring as a White Sox.... I like the sound of that....Alarm clock going off, as I wake up.

longshot7
10-04-2001, 03:52 PM
God, those prospective rotations scare me. Don't rule out Kenny makin' some trades and signing FA's. If last offseason was any indication, I imagine any lineup we come up with now will be pretty different than the real one. I think he'll go after 1, maybe 2 starting pitchers for next season.

oldcomiskey
10-04-2001, 04:32 PM
you of course realize that had Frank kept his mouth shut Barry Bonds would be in a Sox uni----Frank wanted fat Albert instead---but would Barry come here--I mean his dad played here and hated it--and would JR really fork the money over--Im not saying we should do this--but we cant stand pat obviously

PaleHoseGeorge
10-04-2001, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
you of course realize that had Frank kept his mouth shut Barry Bonds would be in a Sox uni----Frank wanted fat Albert instead---but would Barry come here--I mean his dad played here and hated it--and would JR really fork the money over--Im not saying we should do this--but we cant stand pat obviously

Really? I remember Frank saying he wanted JR to get Albert Belle, but I don't recall Barry Bonds being available at the time, too. (November, 1996).

At the time, Belle was the highest-paid player in the game--$55 million. Obviously the Sox had their pick of anybody they wanted waving that kind of scratch in front of people.

Do you remember who else we signed that winter? Jaime Navarro. Ugh.

LongDistanceFan
10-04-2001, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
but would Barry come here--I mean his dad played here and hated it-- what yr did barry father played here?

Jerry_Manuel
10-04-2001, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Really? I remember Frank saying he wanted JR to get Albert Belle, but I don't recall Barry Bonds being available at the time, too. (November, 1996).


I recall hearing that story to. The way I heard it was JR gave Frank the choice of Bonds or Belle. I think at the time Belle was the logical choice. You would think him leaving would weaken the Indians. That is the way I heard it, perhaps someone like West will remember if Bonds was indeed a free agent in '96.

oldcomiskey
10-04-2001, 05:01 PM
Bobby Bonds played with the Sox in in 1978 for 26 games--he was then sent to the Rangers--he also played for the Cubs in 81--his final season

LongDistanceFan
10-04-2001, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
Bobby Bonds played with the Sox in in 1978 for 26 games--he was then sent to the Rangers--he also played for the Cubs in 81--his final season thanks........

PaleHoseGeorge
10-04-2001, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
what yr did barry father played here?

Bobby Bonds was another of Veeck's "rent a player" trades. He sucked. He was traded again before Memorial Day. (We got Claudell Washington for him-- 'nuff said!).

December 5, 1977. Sox trade Brian Downing, Chris Knapp, and Dave Frost to California for Bobby Bonds, Thad Bosley, and Rich Dotson.

Well, as least Dotson turned into something good.

Daver
10-04-2001, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Daver, I have to agree with you.

If my money was on anyone, it would have to be Rauch, with Wright a close second. Everyday, it looks like Kip is buying himself more time in the pen...

I have to disagree on Wright Randar,that guy can't keep it up for more than 4 innings,I think he is better suited as a releiver,or converted into a closer.I think he would make a good closer if he worked on his control with that curve of his.

Randar68
10-05-2001, 08:09 AM
I have to disagree on Wright Randar,that guy can't keep it up for more than 4 innings,I think he is better suited as a releiver,or converted into a closer.I think he would make a good closer if he worked on his control with that curve of his.

Daver, I got a chance to see him pitch in AA, and he was outstanding, and I was told he was hitting 95 mph in the 8th inning. It's all between the ears, unfortunately, that's Kip's problem, and he still hasn't straightened it out. Rauch is a very mature guy, and he's probably more prepared to face major league hitters than Wright, even after Danny's ~15 starts. Danny was rushed, and could really use some time in AAA, where he'll have to learn to keep the ball down to keep it in the park.

voodoochile
10-05-2001, 10:18 AM
Here i my starting rotation and OF...

1)Veteran Starter (Boomer is my choice)
2)Buerhle (DUH!)
3)Garland
4)Wright
5)Biddle/Glover

Love Wright's talent. Think he has the ability to be a 200 IP, 3.5 ERA guy if he can harness his demons. Will show the ability to get stronger as the game progresses as he matures, IMO. Think loser of Biddle/Glover goes to pen, or is offered as tradebait. Expect Lowe to be gone, he is RFA? Think there is plenty to trade too. Look for some more QUANTITY to leave the Sox. Hopefully this year they actually DO get QUALITY in return...

OF
RF Maggs (DUH!)
CF Singleton
LF Lee

I know I am in the minority, but I think Singleton over Rowand because he is better defensively and has shown the ability to be more patient at the plate these last few months, though hey are mostly interchangable, IMO. Besides, if it doesn't work out, they can always go to Rowand. Whichever one gets the spot is only keeping it warm anyway. Hopefully by mid-season, Borchard has been promoted and taken the job anyway. Not ready to give up on Lee anytime soon. Hope this season the position players/lineup look a lot like they did in 2000 except with Crede at 3rd and Borchard eventually in CF. Guys like Rowand, Singleton and Paul could be added to any package that brings the Sox a catcher or SP if it helps land the deal.

PANFIRECRACKER
10-05-2001, 11:21 AM
Don't give up on Lee yet. I'd rather see Frank traded and Lee DH if Borchard is all he's supposed to be.

Chisox353014
10-05-2001, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by PANFIRECRACKER
Don't give up on Lee yet. I'd rather see Frank traded and Lee DH if Borchard is all he's supposed to be.

I know Lee is still young, but I see him becoming a DH sooner than later. His defense regressed terribly this year. The Sox have too many good defensive outfielders that we could be putting out there in his place. If he's not traded, I see him him as Thomas's heir apparent at DH. Voodoo, I also think we will see Singleton as the starting CF beginning next year, barring a great spring training from Rowand.

RichieRichAllen
10-05-2001, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Who else thinks Carlos Lee has the most upside of any of our young hitters? He gets my vote.

Carlos has the potential to be a great hitter. There's something about him that reminds me of a young Bobby Bonilla or Ivan Calderon (maybe I shouldn't have gone there).

Problem is, if he doesn't get better defensively next year, he's going to have to hit a ton better than he did this year to compensate for it. And frankly, other than the catch he made the other night, I don't see his defense improving to much degree.

It might not be a bad idea to stick it out another year with Caballo to see what he can do. If he doesn't do it (defensively) and the Sox win, it doesn't hurt us. If he does do it and hits like he should, it's a breath of fresh air.

Anyway, here are my picks.....

#1 (Obtain in trade)
#2 Buehrle
#3 Garland
#4 Glover
#5 Lowe/Wells

LF Lee (or Obtain in trade)
CF Rowand/Singleton (potential platoon)
RF Ordonez

Daver
10-05-2001, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by PANFIRECRACKER
Don't give up on Lee yet. I'd rather see Frank traded and Lee DH if Borchard is all he's supposed to be.

Frank can't be traded unless it is his choosing,he has a no trade clause.

LongDistanceFan
10-05-2001, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by daver


Frank can't be traded unless it is his choosing,he has a no trade clause. correcto mundo, plus he is a 5 and 10 player. i think i got that right, i may be wrong on the yrs.

Jerry_Manuel
10-05-2001, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
correcto mundo, plus he is a 5 and 10 player. i think i got that right, i may be wrong on the yrs.

No you are correct.
10 years in the league
5 years with the same team

LongDistanceFan
10-05-2001, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


No you are correct.
10 years in the league
5 years with the same team thanks

voodoochile
10-05-2001, 10:20 PM
Yes, frank can refuse a trade, but if he does, you can bet JR invokes the Diminished skills clause the next off season, if possible. If Frank is traded, the diminished skills clause is eliminated from the contract and all of his money is guaranteed without the addutional deferment option.

Daver
10-05-2001, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Yes, frank can refuse a trade, but if he does, you can bet JR invokes the Diminished skills clause the next off season, if possible. If Frank is traded, the diminished skills clause is eliminated from the contract and all of his money is guaranteed without the addutional deferment option.

That is where the true good thing in the clause comes out,as a 5 and ten guy Frank can refuse and trade and sidestep the clause,as the right to refuse a trade under the 5 and 10 clause is not covered in Frank's contract.

voodoochile
10-05-2001, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by daver


That is where the true good thing in the clause comes out,as a 5 and ten guy Frank can refuse and trade and sidestep the clause,as the right to refuse a trade under the 5 and 10 clause is not covered in Frank's contract.

i think the trade needs to be completed for the clause to be eliminated. Are you saying he can refuse the trade and that still eliminates the clause? If that is the case, expect Frank to finish his career here for sure...

WinningUgly!
10-06-2001, 04:28 PM
My OF...

RF-Green
CF-Lofton
LF-Maggs

C. Lee, Durham & Parque to LA for S. Green!

SP's...
D. Wells
Buehrle
Garland
Glover
K. Wells

I'd love to see an Aaron Sele type vet as well.


BP...

Lowe, Simas, Barcello, Wunsch, Howry, Foulke
(please let them all be/stay healthy!)